Susano DOESNT require Ama and tsu (proof)

[Robot Boy]

thats what i said

black zetsu never seen amaterasu because madara never had it for him to see it

black zetsu probably read the uchiha tablet to find out what amaterasu is

wait the uchiha tablet don't you need sharingan or rinnegan to read it?

 

[Owarij]

thats what i said

black zetsu never seen amaterasu because madara never had it for him to see it

black zetsu probably read the uchiha tablet to find out what amaterasu is

Black zetsu is the embodiment of Madaras knowledge, they aren't the same person literally, They act differently, talk differently, Zetsu Obeys Obito's every word, while Madara does not..

 

[~Sovereign~]

How can u argue with the databook :\ come onthe only reason why zetsu got baffled is because he had never seen ITACHI use ammy if he did he wouldn't of got so happy to see a jutsu he sees on a regular basis, like sakuxxnaru said. Zetsu knows evrything about madara but not itachi, anyway we haven't seen anyone with susano'o who doesn't know the tsukyomi and ammy and yes the databook said he can use magatama and ammy. If kishi is contradicting himself which I doubt he is then we found a hole in his logic but until someone can show solid evidence that u don't need ammy and tsukyomi then facts remain that u do need them. If this is true then obito should have susano'o but because he doesn't know ammy and doesn't have both eyes he cant

what?

zetsu makes it clear, he's never seen amaterasu

quit trying to make it seem like kishi is perfect, he can contradict himself...it wont be the first time

remember kishi said minato will never be surpassed, and said hiuzen was a god, and said hashirama was the only one that can stop madara which is false because madara will be stopped and hashirama is already dead

kishi lies all the time/changes his mind

 

[Owarij]

^ those were statements from characters in the manga who do not have infinite knowledge... every character in the manga is intitled to his/her own opinion.. they can be wrong, they can er... what they say are not always fact....

Statements in the databook are different..they are from kishi himself

know the diff

 

[~Sovereign~]

Black zetsu is the embodiment of Madaras knowledge, they aren't the same person literally, They act differently, talk differently, Zetsu Obeys Obito's every word, while Madara does not..

i know that

but STILL zetsu has ALL of madara's knowledge..if madara has amaterasu...THERE WOULD BE NOTHING FOR ZETSU TO "SEE", because he would just go by madara's knowledge and wouldnt be shocked about something he's seen before.....EVEN WHITE ZETSU, im sure that if madara had amaterasu, hashirama knew about too...so white zetsu SHOULDVE known about it too, i think this is obvious

wait the uchiha tablet don't you need sharingan or rinnegan to read it?

have you forgot about nagato and obito...zetsu's partners?

and i just told you zetsu has ALL of madara's knowledge...if madara read the tablet and got the knowledge...so did zetsu

 

[TheTailedSage]

what?

zetsu makes it clear, he's never seen amaterasu

quit trying to make it seem like kishi is perfect, he can contradict himself...it wont be the first time

remember kishi said minato will never be surpassed, and said hiuzen was a god, and said hashirama was the only one that can stop madara which is false because madara will be stopped and hashirama is already dead

kishi lies all the time/changes his mind

No way kishis perfect :S but put into your logic your proving my point too, he makes characters say a lot of kaka but saying ve never seen the ammy might be a lie too, that's why I'm basing it on opinion and not fact I'm just going my current knowledge how do we know that zetsu aint seen ammy he lies all the time as u quite cleary stated (kishi is no where near perfect he trolls to much)

 

[Robot Boy]

uh...I just said obito probably gave them info.

 

[~Sovereign~]

^ those were statements from characters in the manga who do not have infinite knowledge... every character in the manga is intitled to his/her own opinion.. they can be wrong, they can er... what they say are not always fact....

Statements in the databook are different..they are from kishi himself

know the diff

no, kishi said these things

some character are just used for HYPE

what about when kishi said madara has no weaknesses?? thats wrong because madara's weakness is sealing jutsu

kishi contradicts himself

 

[~Sovereign~]

Your entire theory is completely flawed.

You don't rely on what a characters says, but on solid facts and evidence. You've disproved nothing, and Susano'o requiring Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu still stands.

where am i flawed?

 

[NaruGoku]

meowNverse;939649 You actually proved yourself wrong .
Amaterasu:
Black Zetsu knows of it, so Madara most likely has Amaterasu.
Black Zetsu however, has never seen it in action, which is true, cause Madara died like 3 seconds after his creation.

ur right, Black Zetsu knew all about Amaterasu because he is Madara's will incarnate, but that doesn't mean Madara himself had it. We are talking about Madara here, he probably KNEW all the possible techs, but that doesn't necessarily mean he actually HAD those techs. So, it's possible Madara really only knew of it/heard of it and what happens but actually hadn't seen it before...?

and Black Zetsu, when he said "we might actually get to see Amaterasu" -- and this is from my view, how i see it so i'm not saying that i'm totally correct -- but it seems to be that he was just generally commenting that "it looks like we'll get to see it afterall." cuz first, he said "the air around Itachi is changing" and it was after that when he said "it looks like we'll see it afterall." So maybe he simply believed they may not see it--because remember, Black Zetsu knew everything and maybe he didn't think Itachi would use Amaterasu cuz it could one-shot kill Sasuke and he knew Itachi wouldn't do that, and i don't think that even Black Zetsu knew Itachi could put the black fire out--which would add credence to the idea that Madara didn't have Amaterasu but only knew of it


Tsukuyomi:
Madara showed some form of Tsukuyomi to Obito, so he has that jutsu as well.

and ur right, Madara showed Obito Tsukuyomi. BUT, remember that when Madara showed Obito the Tsukuyomi tech, Madara wasn't using HIS OWN EYES. because, remember, he gave HIS eyes to Nagato so he used another eye to show Obito the Tsukuyomi, so we really have no idea if he has Tsukuyomi from his own eyes, although i'm sure he does cuz i assume he'll be the one casting Infinite Tsukuyomi off the moon, unless he uses another eye, or if there's a special ritual, or they actually use the Juubi's power/eye to do it, we don't know yet.

Susanoo:
Madara has perfect Susanoo.

i don't know how Madara having Perfect Susanoo has anything to do with what you're talking about, unless u just mentioned it to say u need Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi to unlock Susanoo... but it appears you need the Rinnegan for PS, not sharingan, apparently, although i can't say for sure one way or the other... but also just having Susanoo may not necessarily mean u have Amaterasu by default...

Susanoo is rare:
Obito said it was rare for MS users to unlock Susanoo.
Obito himself doesnt have it.
Shisui, as far as we know, doesnt have it either.

Also, it is again true what you say--it is rare for one to unlock Susanoo. The manga EXPLICITY says "only those who control the Double Mangekyou can awaken the third power, Susanoo." However, nowhere does it say that anyone who unlocks the double mangkeyou is gaurantee'd to awaken it nor does it say those who awaken Ama/Tsuku are gauranteed to awaken Susanoo. So, it could be that only those with Double Mangekyou even have the chance to unlock susanoo, but the mangekyou itself doesn't gaurantee it, so it is also possible having Ama/Tsuku doesn't gaurantee Susanoo either. So Obito/Shisui not having it could very well have absolutely nothing to do with the fact they don't have Ama/Tsuku... that's possible.

So yeah, you probably need Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, to unlock Susanoo.

I agree with OP that one may NOT need Ama/Tsuku to unlock Susanoo. However, i believe he came to that conclusion for the wrong reasons.

and i KNOW about that one page from the Databook, BUT the Databook is NOT 100% accurate, there's only 1 page that mentions it at all in the vicinity of having Tsukuyomi/Amaterasu, and it was only regarding Itachi cuz he was the ONLY one at that point that we knew about who had it. and that was a long time ago, and databooks are really only accurate to the day they come out cuz things change drastically from arc to arc and changes as plot develops.

So, i believe--and feel free to disagree but please don't get argumentative--that it's possible you don't need Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi to awaken Susanoo.

These are simply my thoughts and views, my observations and my opinions... Please don't flame me for my thoughts and opinions, but i do believe one may not need Amateraus and Tsukuyomi to awaken Susanoo. I think u just need Double Mangekyou, and even then i think you need to be special or have a special prowess to be able to awaken Susanoo once you do have the MS. i don't think all those with MS or all those with Ama/Tsuku can/do awaken Susanoo.

Again--these are my thoughts and opinions, and i use the word "Possibly" a lot because i'm NOT saying that i AM correct or that my thoughts and my way are RIGHT, this is just what i think from what i've seen and put together ok?

 

[Memoria]

no, kishi said these things

some character are just used for HYPE

what about when kishi said madara has no weaknesses?? thats wrong because madara's weakness is sealing jutsu

kishi contradicts himself

Sealing is not Madara's weakness, if you can't defeat him then how can you seal him? lol

 

[Owarij]

i know that

but STILL zetsu has ALL of madara's knowledge..if madara has amaterasu..

Dude...
ok
Let's say you're the only one one the planet able to make things levitate

I live far away and have never seen you levitate..
For the sake of the argument, Somehow, I Gain all your knowledge.....
I know of your ability to levitate, how it works, what you do..
But does that mean I have seen you levitate something?

no...


knowledge of something doesn't mean you've seen it...
Someone could have full knowledge of how the big bang happened, but still be excited to see it happen


it's clear zetsu didn't just hear this all from a rumor..
There aren't many rumors going around for amaterasu.... Even Jiraya one of the most informed people was clueless to it...
Zetsu described it perfectly, how it converges, its requirements, everything.....a rumor wouldn't be so perfect in detail... a rumor would be something like
"Itachi can shoot black flames out his eyes"

 

[Meowazziel]

OMG

BLACK ZETSU IS MADARA

whatever madara knows...black zetsu knows
whatever madara seen....black zetsu seen

madara made this clear already
how do you think obito know madara entire life story?

''Whatever Madara has seen, black zetsu has seen''=not right.

You SEE with your EYES, not with your knowledge and not with your memory, will or whatever.
Black zetsu cannot have SEEN it, cause Madara died a few seconds after Black zetsu his creation.
Black zetsu wanted to actually SEE it in action.

You have been proven wrong by several people, including myself, yet you remain stubborn.
You wont be right unless the manga comes up with new information, that backs up what you state.

 

[Owarij]

The manga EXPLICITY says "only those who control the Double Mangekyou can awaken the third power, Susanoo."

SASUKE SAID THAT......How many times must I say, that the words that come out characters mouths aren't 100% fact.... Deidara thought sasuke's chidori was raikiri..they can be wrong..

You are taking the words of SASUKE, the boy who literally had just got his mangekyou, who knows NOTHING about it...... as fact...
when the databooks, and itachi both sade you need amaterasu + susanno

/sigh

 

[~Sovereign~]

Sealing is not Madara's weakness, if you can't defeat him then how can you seal him? lol

totsuka blade

reaper death seal

both can beat madara
stop overrating

Dude...
ok
Let's say you're the only one one the planet able to make things levitate

I live far away and have never seen you levitate..
For the sake of the argument, Somehow, I Gain all your knowledge.....
I know of your ability to levitate, how it works, what you do..
But does that mean I have seen you levitate something?

no...


knowledge of something doesn't mean you've seen it...
Someone could have full knowledge of how the big bang happened, but still be excited to see it happen


it's clear zetsu didn't just hear this all from a rumor..
There aren't many rumors going around for amaterasu.... Even Jiraya one of the most informed people was clueless to it...
Zetsu described it perfectly, how it converges, its requirements, everything.....a rumor wouldn't be so perfect in detail... a rumor would be something like
"Itachi can shoot black flames out his eyes"

ok

let me ask you this
if you transfer all your knowledge into a clone, your clone picture the moon, right?

 

[~Sovereign~]

SASUKE SAID THAT......How many times must I say, that the words that come out characters mouths aren't 100% fact.... Deidara thought sasuke's chidori was raikiri..they can be wrong..

You are taking the words of SASUKE, the boy who literally had just got his mangekyou, who knows NOTHING about it...... as fact...
when the databooks, and itachi both sade you need amaterasu + susanno

/sigh

how are you gonna say that sasuke is wrong?

he has the tech and he knows what he's talking about

if i said i can move at 100 miles per hour, how can i be wrong?? it was a statement not an answer

 

[Memoria]

I can only say that Susanoo is connected to Amaterasu (Sun goddess) and Tsukuyomi (Moon goddess) in Japanese mythology. If Kishimoto built it up as a technique requiring Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, he can't give it to Madara without him having said techniques.

 

[Owarij]

how are you gonna say that sasuke is wrong?

he has the tech and he knows what he's talking about

if i said i can move at 100 miles per hour, how can i be wrong?? it was a statement not an answer

Sasuke unlocked the mangekyou but still he doesn't know the history about it , nothing like that..

He's a 16 year old who go the mangekyou from watching his brother die...he never did research on it,has no way of knowing whether or not you need double mangekyou or amaterasu and susanno

As memoria said, even in the jappanese Mythology , the three of them are BROTHERS.... it's practically obvious it's a set jutsu

 

[TheTailedSage]

One crucial point she's forgeting is that its only the black part of zetsu that know 'everything' and he obviously doesn't know everything because the amount of shiit that guy comes out with is dispicable

 

[~Sovereign~]

I can only say that Susanoo is connected to Amaterasu (Sun goddess) and Tsukuyomi (Moon goddess) in Japanese mythology. If Kishimoto built it up as a technique requiring Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, he can't give it to Madara without him having said techniques.

kishi doesnt have to follow japanese mythology

this is his manga, he can do whatever he wants

One crucial point she's forgeting is that its only the black part of zetsu that know 'everything' and he obviously doesn't know everything because the amount of shiit that guy comes out with is dispicable

what?

im a "he" btw

Sasuke unlocked the mangekyou but still he doesn't know the history about it , nothing like that..

He's a 16 year old who go the mangekyou from watching his brother die...he never did research on it,has no way of knowing whether or not you need double mangekyou or amaterasu and susanno

As memoria said, even in the jappanese Mythology , the three of them are BROTHERS.... it's practically obvious it's a set jutsu

congrats on 10000 post

i ment to say it earlier lol

sasuke? he has nothing to do with this

this is kishi's manga...he doesnt have to follow japanese mythology