Subtle hint by Kishi

[Kelden]

GREAT FIND!!!
+rep man!!

 

[Forsberg]

Awesome. I'd like to see more out of these subtle hints to prove it was planned all along.

 

[Lodratio]

not really. in order to prove that sth was planned in a story you have to have at least two provenly interconnected values which will then be explained by a third and thus leading to the revelation or the third value is the revelation. there are no two specific and interconnected clues (let alone values) in the Naruto story pointing to Tobi's identity and then comes the third: the revelation, bringing everything together.

i don't mean to bash anyone and definitely not the person who made the thread, but it really doesn't seem planned. it looks more like Kishi had two options in mind for Tobi's identity and followed the one which proved more convenient, and would add greater drama to the story.

Actually, yes there is more hints out there.
For example, in Kakashi gaiden Obito uses the analogy "like water and oil", which is later used by tobi
when he tells Sasuke about the history of the Senju and the Uchiha, or the fact that kakashi gaiden
would have served no purpose, if it was about the distant past that has no relation to the present.
From my observation, Kishis flashbacks usually serve some hidden purpose that revelas itself later in the story,
so that in and of itself should have been a hint, too.

 

[supino]

Actually, yes there is more hints out there.
For example, in Kakashi gaiden Obito uses the analogy "like water and oil", which is later used by tobi
when he tells Sasuke about the history of the Senju and the Uchiha, or the fact that kakashi gaiden
would have served no purpose, if it was about the distant past that has no relation to the present.
From my observation, Kishis flashbacks usually serve some hidden purpose that revelas itself later in the story,
so that in and of itself should have been a hint, too.

i don't know for sure, but imho no. it doesn't seem planned.

all these are hints or maybe clues. the problem is that there were hints or clues suggesting sth different. and that's the thing about hints and clues, they are not values in the story. and by values i mean basically facts. or to be more precise how facts may or may not affect the story.

for example: Sakura has pink hair that's a fact. Hinata has the byakugan, also a fact. the byakugan is a dojutsu, that's a value in the story. we all know that there are three major dojutsu and one of them is the byakugan.
depending on the importance of the value, the story adapts accordingly. for example, the byakugan is a not as important to the story as is the sharingan.

regarding all the hints about Tobi being Obito in the story: none of them is particularly important given that there were equally as many hints about sth else. and none of them for either Obito or Madara as a possible identity was a fact or a value.

which is what i meant in my post: two interconnected values are not the same as some random hints.

eg. the analogy of oil and water is a very good one and connects Obito to Tobi and does so pre-revelation. (another important aspect: the two values have to preexist the third one, or else it is pointless for obvious reasons)
BUT there are also hints which at the time linked Tobi to Madara, for example all the speeches about Hashirama.

now that we know the truth the hints about Tobi=Madara are irrelevant and false, but before the revelation the importance of all hints had the same impact.

two interconnected values though, which would be a proof that Tobi=Obito was preplanned, would take place before the revelation of the identity and could be sth like this:
Obito is/ has (x) fact. (x) is/ has that value in the story.
> Obito has spiky hair. spiky hair has some credibility as a value in a shounen i guess but then again if Obito was the long haired Madara, meaning he let his hair grow... sb else could had cut his hair.
> Obito has six fingers (completely hypothetical), that's a fact. Tobi had six fingers too, also fact. if people were making fun of him because of that characteristic as Obito in Konoha and then as Tobi in Akatsuki, then here is the value of it in-story.

about the Kakashi Gaiden, personally i could see it as a stand alone story explaining Kakashi's story, the same way Yahiko was important to Nagato and Konan and they were even using his body for one of the paths, but the guy was long dead.

 

[Lodratio]

@ Supino: (Not going to quote your post... it'd take up too much space)

The problem with that is, that if you use "values" to tell a story, people are going to figure everything out before it happens.
The best method is to present the final pieces to the puzzle when the revelation comes, Itachi for example could have been
portrayed as an evil bastard up until the very end, and only in retrospect, with kishi giving us additional information, can we
say that it was planned out. Obito was just revealed to have been the Identity of Tobi, give it a couple more weeks,
I'm willing to bet that Kishi knows what he's doing.

 

[Ryan Ensign]

Actually, it was ever since chapter 16...

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[thegame]

Lol the reason he calls himself a weirdo is due to the way he acted when they last met, when deidara fought sasuke... This is no damn find, and proves nothing. Nice try bro.

 

[Animaeon]

Kishi might've looked back at his earlier work and decided to reference certain parts to make a new scene seem more symbolic (such as Kakashi and Obito waking up with the same choice of words). I don't think these kind of funny hints prove that Kishi thought of these chapters way ahead and decided on Tobi's real identity from the start.

However, Kishi did mention Obito quite a few times since the start of the manga and he only had 2 episodes of screentime. The third movie was filled with references; Kakashi points out twice that Naruto is just like Obito, there was a way better drawn version of Kakashi Gaiden and Naruto repeats the "Shinobi who abandon their friends are worse than scum" speech twice with a huge amount of pride, saying that he'll never forget this lesson he taught him... Which is quite ironic. Both Kishi and the animators have done their best to keep Obito in our memory...

... and so, it wouldn't make sense to put that much effort into a character's existance, if that character doesn't even have a further purpose in the story. Not even Hashirama got that treatment and he was way more important.

 

[TobiOrNotTobi]

Nice one.

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

Good find, the deeper you look into the manga the more hints you find. I have seen many my self.

But kishi has had this planned from the start of the series, I have seen hints as far back as chapter 16.

 

[Beepbeepimajeep]

I think Suspino is just to in depth...basically hindsight is 20/20. There was just as many links pointing the finger at Madara. To me its like what we do with nostradamus predictions when we backfill text from events that happen through history. I'm not saying kishi didn't plan tobi being obito, but foreshadowing events are easy. If Kishi wrote the book and was finished thats one thing, but when the story is constantly in flux over the last what 12 years that its written...things change. Reread chapter 280 when Tobi first was introduced...he wanted to join akatsuki and zetsu said its not that easy as well as calling him a kid. Obito isnt a kid and why would it be hard to join the group when you claim to be the creator of akatsuki. The initial Tobis personality is completely different then when his personality started to change from the manga scene that you posted. But i'm sure Kishi will make the link for that one as well

 

[TheLastSamurai]

hehe, these little findings make me wonder about what more we've been wrong until now.
Maybe there is more information hidden in what Kishi made until now ^^

 

[asdeiro]

nice find

 

[stu21]

The most subtle clue was in the begining of part 2 when Tobi finds Deidara's arm that Kakashi sent to the other dimension with the Kamui...

 

[Akx19]

This makes me wonder if the kakashi gaiden wasn't a "filler" between the 3 year jump and actually was the start of the new series. Kishi intentionally showed Obito dying right before he started the series that was all based about him.

 

[-Haku Yuki-]

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saw it coming eietehr way just didn't want to believe it

 

[KobayashiShane]

great find man +rep

 

[Bigfoot34501]

Spoiler

i don't know for sure, but imho no. it doesn't seem planned.

all these are hints or maybe clues. the problem is that there were hints or clues suggesting sth different. and that's the thing about hints and clues, they are not values in the story. and by values i mean basically facts. or to be more precise how facts may or may not affect the story.

for example: Sakura has pink hair that's a fact. Hinata has the byakugan, also a fact. the byakugan is a dojutsu, that's a value in the story. we all know that there are three major dojutsu and one of them is the byakugan.
depending on the importance of the value, the story adapts accordingly. for example, the byakugan is a not as important to the story as is the sharingan.

regarding all the hints about Tobi being Obito in the story: none of them is particularly important given that there were equally as many hints about sth else. and none of them for either Obito or Madara as a possible identity was a fact or a value.

which is what i meant in my post: two interconnected values are not the same as some random hints.

eg. the analogy of oil and water is a very good one and connects Obito to Tobi and does so pre-revelation. (another important aspect: the two values have to preexist the third one, or else it is pointless for obvious reasons)
BUT there are also hints which at the time linked Tobi to Madara, for example all the speeches about Hashirama.

now that we know the truth the hints about Tobi=Madara are irrelevant and false, but before the revelation the importance of all hints had the same impact.

two interconnected values though, which would be a proof that Tobi=Obito was preplanned, would take place before the revelation of the identity and could be sth like this:
Obito is/ has (x) fact. (x) is/ has that value in the story.
> Obito has spiky hair. spiky hair has some credibility as a value in a shounen i guess but then again if Obito was the long haired Madara, meaning he let his hair grow... sb else could had cut his hair.
> Obito has six fingers (completely hypothetical), that's a fact. Tobi had six fingers too, also fact. if people were making fun of him because of that characteristic as Obito in Konoha and then as Tobi in Akatsuki, then here is the value of it in-story.

about the Kakashi Gaiden, personally i could see it as a stand alone story explaining Kakashi's story, the same way Yahiko was important to Nagato and Konan and they were even using his body for one of the paths, but the guy was long dead.

As others have said, this isn't the only hint, he had this planned all the way back in chapter 16:

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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It's also ironic that the mysterious Mizukage who made Zabuza and Haku's village a nightmare was introduced then, IMO I think Zabuza found out about Obito and tried to kill him, not Yagura

 

[Jako98146]

Every generation
first Obito gets taken in by Madara
then Kabuto gets taken in by Orochimaru
then Sasuke gets taken in by Obito

 

[-Ibrahim-]

And when Obito 1st dies we see someone saying 'am i dead? were am i' & we assumed it was Kakashi but we see the exact same words in chapter 601