[Discussion] Strongest Espada Wonderweiss can defeat?

[SnakeSkinBlade]

This is a question I've always pondered, it is stated that he had the power of an Espada. Who is the strongest member of the Espada that Wonderweiss can defeat? Or can he not defeat any?

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[Stark]

Wonderweiss' sole purpose was to seal Ryūjin Jakka's flames and nothing more, his overall combat abilities are fraccion level at best and when using Resurrección he surpasses Fraccion. He can't defeat any Espada level Arrancar, had his Resurrección been more suited for combat instead of sealing flames he still wouldn't be Espada level, his raw strength and speed are worthy of mention though.

 

[Goetia]

WonderWeiss was not built for the purposes the other Espada were. He was created for the purpose of sealing away Genryuusai's Zanpakuto, Ryujin Jakka.

 

[mishoa]

Wonderweiss' sole purpose was to seal Ryūjin Jakka's flames and nothing more, his overall combat abilities are fraccion level at best and when using Resurrección he surpasses Fraccion. He can't defeat any Espada level Arrancar, had his Resurrección been more suited for combat instead of sealing flames he still wouldn't be Espada level, his raw strength and speed are worthy of mention though.

your joking right a person who took out two vizard and easily stabbed through a captain and was able to block a sword swing from the captain commander with ease is only at fraccion level? he would probably shit on espada up to 7 grimmow is debatable and with Resurrección can probably defeat up to Nnoitra and did you not read the chapter in the manga where it said he wasn't counted as an espada but his spiritual power levels was on par with theirs? please read the manga if your going to be making bold statements like that

 

[Forbidden Tale]

WW is stronger than any espada.

He was created for the purpose of sealing RJ flames, but that doesn't mean that it's his only ability.

1. Starrk refer to him as "Trump card" even during the battles with shinigamis (prior to Aizen vs Yama).
2. He unfroze Tier with just his voice (Base WW), Full powered Tier couldn't do that.
3. He beat Kensei easily and we still don't know did he beat him in Ressurection or base. (No one out of shinigamis did notice, WW's change in reitasu, which could mean that he beat Kensei in base).
4. Portrayal also say that he is strongest.

- Starrk fought Kyoraku
- Yammy fought two captains
- WW fought Yamamoto

Yamamoto > Two captains > Kyoraku.

So yes, WW is stronger than any Espada.

 

[jiraiya nindo]

Yeah, I'd say WW was stronger than the espada in general. But bleach is all about matchups to a certain extent. I don't know if WW would've been a match for some of the espada tho based on his unique set of skills. His intelligence was sacrificed for the ability to seal yama's shikai. So he may be stronger but I could see the top 4 espada beating WW maybe based on his limited intelligence.

 

[Stark]

your joking right a person who took out two vizard and easily stabbed through a captain and was able to block a sword swing from the captain commander with ease is only at fraccion level? he would probably shit on espada up to 7 grimmow is debatable and with Resurrección can probably defeat up to Nnoitra and did you not read the chapter in the manga where it said he wasn't counted as an espada but his spiritual power levels was on par with theirs? please read the manga if your going to be making bold statements like that

Took down a Vizard of Vice Captain level, the power gap between that of a Captain and Vice Captain Vizard or not is extremely wide. Kensei took Wonderweiss on and the fight went off panel so we don't know what went down, he didn't even use his mask. With Ukitakes health he is one of the weakest Captains right now due to his health, he got taken off guard nonetheless and his sickly body cannot withstand combat. Wonderweiss beat Nnoitra? Yeah no, but now that I think about it Grimmjow was a bit weak, what I know for sure is that Wonderweiss is definitely not beating Espada 4 and down for sure and he cannot get through Nnoitra's hierro.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Took down a Vizard of Vice Captain level, the power gap between that of a Captain and Vice Captain Vizard or not is extremely wide. Kensei took Wonderweiss on and the fight went off panel so we don't know what went down, he didn't even use his mask. With Ukitakes health he is one of the weakest Captains right now due to his health, he got taken off guard nonetheless and his sickly body cannot withstand combat. Wonderweiss beat Nnoitra? Yeah no, but now that I think about it Grimmjow was a bit weak, what I know for sure is that Wonderweiss is definitely not beating Espada 4 and down for sure and he cannot get through Nnoitra's hierro.

The Vizard you are referring as Vice Captain, was on that level 100 years ago. From that time she got power boost in mask and trained to fight Aizen.

If you want to say that he just took "Vice Captain", then you should know that Full powerd Tier couldn't overpower Lisa Yadomaru, not to mention that WW done that in base.

Ukitake is weak when ill take effect, if I remember correctly during FKT it didn't take any effect.

 

[Stark]

The Vizard you are referring as Vice Captain, was on that level 100 years ago. From that time she got power boost in mask and trained to fight Aizen.

If you want to say that he just took "Vice Captain", then you should know that Full powerd Tier couldn't overpower Lisa Yadomaru, not to mention that WW done that in base.

Ukitake is weak when ill take effect, if I remember correctly during FKT it didn't take any effect.

What did she train on hollow? She was on the run with the rest of the Vizard squad with no action for 100 years, she trained her mask to be able to use it for an extremely long duration but that doesn't require her to practice it in combat, she can measure her mask duration by merely sitting down. Of course she can train with her Vizard squad but that is going to do her no good, that's like Yumichika training for 100 years, he's a scrub and will never be Captain tier with his Zanpakuto. Reminds me of Matsumoto, she was a Vice Captain 100 years ago under Ishin Kurosaki and Toshiro was a 3rd seat who took the Captain position. Why? Her abilities will never be Captain tier no matter how she trains, she will always be Vice Captain tier and nothing more. Renji on the other hand was created to be Captain tier in the future, he was given abilities that with time would potentially be Captain level, in this arc it shows.

Lisa, another Vice Captain that is not even pre Soul Palace Renji level without her mask. She's a nobody, her raw strength with the mask and speed is about it, without her mask she's just another Yumichika but slightly cooler. She does not impress me..

Nothing takes effect over him it's an illness that will be with him always, it isn't a cold that he catches when it's chilly outside, you sound silly.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

1. The Vizards even though were on run, still had time to train Ichigo. They also had time to master their hollows, so you believe that they didn't train for 100 years?

2. Matsumoto wasn't vice captain 100 years ago, she wasn't even shinigami back than, she was junior student at academy. Gin finished academy with just 1 year and become shinigami at the end of TBTP, at that time Matsumoto finished only first year. She was VC 20 years ago. Proof that he will not be captain?

3. Toshiro is just prodigy, you can't compare others to him.

4. Renji did become captain tier, only because of RR training, he wasn't even close to that level prior to his trip to RR. RR is place that anyone would got power boost and become captain level.

5. Can you prove that Lisa is not on Renji's level of power? Lisa was able to fight with Tier, Renji is just around same strength with Yylfordt. I don't not what impress you, but her feat is better.

6. Yes, it does. When I'm ill and play Basketball, I don't feel like I'm ill, but when I stop or make longer pause, indeed I feel it, than.

7. You are the one who sound silly here.

 

[Beetle]

Wonderweiss is pretty weak. He's pretty durable, but Yama did 1-2 punch him to death. Honestly he could beat none of the Espada, he has basically no cognitive skills, so he'd fall for any of the Espada's abilities (ex. going headfirst into Barragan's aging)

 

[kotoamatsukami]

Wonderweiss is pretty weak. He's pretty durable, but Yama did 1-2 punch him to death. Honestly he could beat none of the Espada, he has basically no cognitive skills, so he'd fall for any of the Espada's abilities (ex. going headfirst into Barragan's aging)

Lol he beat kensei a captain level person diehard are you taking about?

 

[Rokudaime Hokage Naruto]

All but Ulq, Barra and Stark imo.

 

[Killuaa]

He'd beat Starrk, Tier and Ulquiorra at the same time. XD

While he's in Base.

Released Wonderweiss would wreck a lot more.

 

[-Akuma-]

WW is stronger than any espada.

He was created for the purpose of sealing RJ flames, but that doesn't mean that it's his only ability.

1. Starrk refer to him as "Trump card" even during the battles with shinigamis (prior to Aizen vs Yama).
2. He unfroze Tier with just his voice (Base WW), Full powered Tier couldn't do that.
3. He beat Kensei easily and we still don't know did he beat him in Ressurection or base. (No one out of shinigamis did notice, WW's change in reitasu, which could mean that he beat Kensei in base).
4. Portrayal also say that he is strongest.

- Starrk fought Kyoraku
- Yammy fought two captains
- WW fought Yamamoto

Yamamoto > Two captains > Kyoraku.

So yes, WW is stronger than any Espada.

That logic is flawed, Starrk nearly beat Shunsui, while WW comfortably lost to a zanpaktou Yama. I say at best he beat Barragan.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

That logic is flawed, Starrk nearly beat Shunsui, while WW comfortably lost to a zanpaktou Yama. I say at best he beat Barragan.

Yamamoto without zanpakuto is still stronger than Shunsui.

Against Aizen, after Yama watched whole fight with Aizen and feel his reiatsu said that he will be able to take down Aizen.

Aizen is already more powerful than Shunsui.

 

[kotoamatsukami]

Yamamoto without zanpakuto is still stronger than Shunsui.

Against Aizen, after Yama watched whole fight with Aizen and feel his reiatsu said that he will be able to take down Aizen.

Aizen is already more powerful than Shunsui.

Yama without zan loses to kyoraku period,well once kyoraku shows bankai that is.

Once again Yama won't gone win.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Yama without zan loses to kyoraku period,well once kyoraku shows bankai that is.

Once again Yama won't gone win.

I wasn't talking about Bankai Shunsui, I was talking about Shikai Shunsui.

Can you prove that he wouldn't win?

 

[kotoamatsukami]

I wasn't talking about Bankai Shunsui, I was talking about Shikai Shunsui.

Can you prove that he wouldn't win?

Lol I can say do you have proof that Yama would win..cuz Yama dont have a conter to ks really an without the help of his flames he can't win aizen would just use ks an just keep slashing away at Yama an what can Yama do about that?

 

[-Akuma-]

Yamamoto without zanpakuto is still stronger than Shunsui.

Against Aizen, after Yama watched whole fight with Aizen and feel his reiatsu said that he will be able to take down Aizen.

Aizen is already more powerful than Shunsui.

That's not the point, I know Yama is stronger than Shunsui, I don't without a zan but I would still lean towards a zanpaktouless Yama winning. I just wanted to point out one thing though, even though Yama though he would take down Aizen doesn't mean he could but that's besides the point.

Starrk nearly took down his foe, while WW stood no chance against his.I would not place WW above Starrk at all.