Storm 4 Itachi vs BM Minato

[KidGamer65]

Its simple logic really. Your not understanding me again. I said your V4 durability is the same as your PS durability not strength / power. Yes they are all PS are relatively around the same power unless you can prove that they are vastly inferior. Rikudou versions being stronger ofc.

Except it is not. :lol That's why your post makes zero sense. V4=PS is like me saying V3=V4. :lol Stop it. As for the second sentence, when you can actually prove any of your claims then you can get back at me. You say "lol Rikudo superior of course" even though that breaks your logic apart. It's either or. Get out of here with that wishy washy stuff.

Your logic: Susanoo variants of the same level are all around the same level give or take.

My/Correct logic: Susanoo's strength depends on the power of the user's chakra. Period.

If someone with Rikudo's chakra (strongest chakra) has a Susanoo far above someone like EMS Sasuke's, then it crushes the logic that Susanoo are all around the same level just because they are Susanoo, and it proves that chakra strength is the determinant of Susanoo's power.

Im arguing the power of his chakra is not so far off from sasuke and madara's. Unless you have reason for me doubt this.

Jesus Christ. People need to learn how to argue. Arguing is where you make a claim and back it up with evidence, and I proceed to counter, with my own evidence. Or vice versa. Arguing isn't you stating "X is true, and I'm right until proven wrong". :lol. But I'll indulge your incredibly flawed approach regardless, because like I said before.....the Manga disagrees with you. And people wonder why I'm always typing walls of text, because I have to go the extra mile for the opposition who doesn't want to prove any of their claims.

Naruto's rasengan is stronger cause he has more chakra to put in as well. Similar to the clone jutsu he can make more clones due to chakra pool. Chakra power is the issue prove to mean Itachi's chakra power is far less than sausages and madaras show me a scan for Sasukes PS

Absolutely wrong, again. Just like the majority of this post. If Naruto was putting any more chakra in his Rasengan than Jiraiya or Minato, then it'd obviously be bigger. I'm just going to bring pictures so you can stop replying with irrelevant nonsense.

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Rikudo Naruto's Rasengan.

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Base Minato's Rasengan.

Yet Naruto's Rasengan can output half the power to wreck a near Mountain Sized Statue while Minato's Rasengan is nowhere near that level. They are the same size, so don't repeat that "more chakra" argument. It's because the chakra is STRONGER. As for Sasuke's PS:

Spoiler

Fact 1: Sasuke's PS=Naruto's BM in durability, strength and speed.

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Fact 2: Regular Senjutsu=Regular Senjutsu.

Thus anything that is equal to Naruto's Avatar in durability is automatically equal to Sasuke's PS in durability, strength and speed.

-We have Sasuke's Complete Susanoo boosted by Kyuubi and Naruto's power and Senjutsu, shown as equals in durability, speed and strength to Naruto's Avatar.

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-Subtract Senjutsu from both, and you have something equal to Sasuke's PS, and something equal to the BM Avatar.

-KCC Senjutsu Susanoo=BSM Avatar>BM Avatar=KCC Susanoo=Sasuke's PS in durability, strength and speed.

-That was destroyed by a drop slam, thus said drop slam would obliterate Sasuke's PS and probably kill him since he lacks Senjutsu here.

-Madara's Susanoo canonically protected him, without injury, from a far stronger technique.

-Thus in terms of physical ability and durability:

-Madara's PS>>>Sasuke's PS with Senjutsu=Naruto's BSM Avatar>Sasuke's PS w/o Senjutsu=Naruto's BM Avatar.

-EMS Sasuke is Itachi+Sasuke when it comes to chakra power.

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-Susanoo's power is dependent on chakra power. Stronger chakra=Stronger Susanoo.

Thus Madara's PS>>>Sasuke's PS w/ Senjutsu=Naruto's BSM Avatar>Sasuke's PS=Naruto's BM Avatar>Itachi's PS.

 

[Zealous Sparks]

Except it is not. :lol That's why your post makes zero sense. V4=PS is like me saying V3=V4. :lol Stop it. As for the second sentence, when you can actually prove any of your claims then you can get back at me. You say "lol Rikudo superior of course" even though that breaks your logic apart. It's either or. Get out of here with that wishy washy stuff.

Your logic: Susanoo variants of the same level are all around the same level give or take.

My/Correct logic: Susanoo's strength depends on the power of the user's chakra. Period.

If someone with Rikudo's chakra (strongest chakra) has a Susanoo far above someone like EMS Sasuke's, then it crushes the logic that Susanoo are all around the same level just because they are Susanoo, and it proves that chakra strength is the determinant of Susanoo's power.

Again, Susanoo durability is the same for all forms for that user. The Form change just increases the mass and damage output. Because there chakra power is the same.
Thats not what I'm getting at... Rikudou powered PS is obviously stronger than regular PS due to rikudou chakra potencey. What I'm talking about is natural chakra potency ems PS madras ~ ems Ps sasuke ~ edo PS Itachi. Due to their chakras being similar in potency.
* for the sake of OP even if Itachi's PS is weaker it would still be enough based on feats from his earlier versions factoring everything his susanoo has. Its a game ofc

Jesus Christ. People need to learn how to argue. Arguing is where you make a claim and back it up with evidence, and I proceed to counter, with my own evidence. Or vice versa. Arguing isn't you stating "X is true, and I'm right until proven wrong". :lol. But I'll indulge your incredibly flawed approach regardless, because like I said before.....the Manga disagrees with you. And people wonder why I'm always typing walls of text, because I have to go the extra mile for the opposition who doesn't want to prove any of their claims.
Absolutely wrong, again. Just like the majority of this post. If Naruto was putting any more chakra in his Rasengan than Jiraiya or Minato, then it'd obviously be bigger. I'm just going to bring pictures so you can stop replying with irrelevant nonsense.

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Rikudo Naruto's Rasengan.

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Base Minato's Rasengan.

Yet Naruto's Rasengan can output half the power to wreck a near Mountain Sized Statue while Minato's Rasengan is nowhere near that level. They are the same size, so don't repeat that "more chakra" argument. It's because the chakra is STRONGER. As for Sasuke's PS:

To this Chakra potency is a factor but Chakra amount is just as important.

Spoiler

Fact 1: Sasuke's PS=Naruto's BM in durability, strength and speed.

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Fact 2: Regular Senjutsu=Regular Senjutsu.

Thus anything that is equal to Naruto's Avatar in durability is automatically equal to Sasuke's PS in durability, strength and speed.

-We have Sasuke's Complete Susanoo boosted by Kyuubi and Naruto's power and Senjutsu, shown as equals in durability, speed and strength to Naruto's Avatar.

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-Subtract Senjutsu from both, and you have something equal to Sasuke's PS, and something equal to the BM Avatar.

-KCC Senjutsu Susanoo=BSM Avatar>BM Avatar=KCC Susanoo=Sasuke's PS in durability, strength and speed.

-That was destroyed by a drop slam, thus said drop slam would obliterate Sasuke's PS and probably kill him since he lacks Senjutsu here.

-Madara's Susanoo canonically protected him, without injury, from a far stronger technique.

-Thus in terms of physical ability and durability:

-Madara's PS>>>Sasuke's PS with Senjutsu=Naruto's BSM Avatar>Sasuke's PS w/o Senjutsu=Naruto's BM Avatar.

-EMS Sasuke is Itachi+Sasuke when it comes to chakra power.

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-Susanoo's power is dependent on chakra power. Stronger chakra=Stronger Susanoo.

Thus Madara's PS>>>Sasuke's PS w/ Senjutsu=Naruto's BSM Avatar>Sasuke's PS=Naruto's BM Avatar>Itachi's PS.

-Subtract Senjutsu from both, and you have something equal to Sasuke's PS, and something equal to the BM Avatar.
humanoid susanoo with legs not complete. unless your saying sasuke PS is similar in str and power to it.

-KCC Senjutsu Susanoo=BSM Avatar>BM Avatar=KCC Susanoo=Sasuke's PS in durability, strength and speed.

what KCC I'm not with all the acronyms

Madara's Susanoo canonically protected him, without injury, from a far stronger technique.

which attack is this show me a scan also one with obito destroying sasukes PS

-EMS Sasuke is Itachi+Sasuke when it comes to chakra power. what makes you think this means he's adding on all of itachi's chakra potency.

 

[KidGamer65]

Again, Susanoo durability is the same for all forms for that user. The Form change just increases the mass and damage output. Because there chakra power is the same.

Wrong again. I'm still waiting for you to prove any of this nonsense. The sheer fact that Ay can rip through a Ribcage but not a V2 on his own ends any and all notion of it being more durable. Whether overall or whether pound for pound (which would be what you are referring to)


Thats not what I'm getting at... Rikudou powered PS is obviously stronger than regular PS due to rikudou chakra potencey. What I'm talking about is natural chakra potency ems PS madras ~ ems Ps sasuke ~ edo PS Itachi. Due to their chakras being similar in potency.

* for the sake of OP even if Itachi's PS is weaker it would still be enough based on feats from his earlier versions.

Which puts it nowhere near Madara's.

To this Chakra potency is a factor but Chakra amount is just as important.

It's a factor, it's nowhere near as important. Even if you want to get into chakra amount, Madara's chakra dwarfs Sasuke and Itachi's so you'd be wise not to even bring that up.

humanoid susanoo with legs not complete. unless your saying sasuke PS is similar in str and power to it.

Call it what you want, it doesn't matter. My point is what is important.

what KCC I'm not with all the acronyms

That just refers to the Kyuubi Chakra Cloak.

which attack is this show me a scan also one with obito destroying sasukes PS

Just explained the entire thing. Go read what I JUST posted and then actually counter it.

what makes you think this means he's adding on all of itachi's chakra potency.

"Itachi's power is flowing into me". I have no reason to believe anything other than what that statement implies.

 

[Kagustuchi]

KCC = Kyuubi Chakra Cloak. He's referring to when Sasuke had that chakra cloak Naruto gave to him

 

[Chaosmark101]

When rasengan show feats then we can talk about it. Even those frs he threw while in rsm are shit compared to what Sasuke displayed. I'll counter the rest when I get home

Unorthodox, did you see what Naruto & Boruto's Rasengan did to Momoshiki at the end of Boruto the movie?

 

[Zealous Sparks]

Wrong again. I'm still waiting for you to prove any of this nonsense. The sheer fact that Ay can rip through a Ribcage but not a V2 on his own ends any and all notion of it being more durable. Whether overall or whether pound for pound (which would be what you are referring to)

V2 has more mass so it would be harder for him to destroy it.

It's a factor, it's nowhere near as important. Even if you want to get into chakra amount, Madara's chakra dwarfs Sasuke and Itachi's so you'd be wise not to even bring that up.

I wouldn't say dwarfs but he definitely has more.

Call it what you want, it doesn't matter. My point is what is important.

so you consider sasukes PS to have similar power/str/ durability to his complete humanoid with legs form.

That just refers to the Kyuubi Chakra Cloak.

ah thx

Just explained the entire thing. Go read what I JUST posted and then actually counter it.

You never showed me the scan of Obito effortlessly crushing Sasukes PS which is most important. I don't recall this actually.

"Itachi's power is flowing into me". I have no reason to believe anything other than what that statement implies.

This could mean several of things. But thats the way you interpreted it I'm still not as convinced but i leave it at that.

 

[KidGamer65]

V2 has more mass so it would be harder for him to destroy it.

Uh, no. Ay was cracking Sasuke's ribcage, but Sasuke's V2 tanked Temari, Darui,Gaara and Kankuro's attack with zero damage. V2 can't tank zero damage from an attack that wrecks Ribcage if they are the same durability pound for pound.

I wouldn't say dwarfs but he definitely has more.

No, it dwarfs his. Let's not overrate.

so you consider sasukes PS to have similar power/str/ durability to his complete humanoid with legs form.

Uh, no. Sasuke's PS=Sasuke's boosted Susanoo in physical ability. Boosted Susanoo>>>Regular Susanoo.

You never showed me the scan of Obito effortlessly crushing Sasukes PS which is most important. I don't recall this actually.

I showed you a scan of Obito obliterating something equal to Sasuke's PS. Like I said, go read that explanation before you reply.

 

[Zealous Sparks]

Uh, no. Ay was cracking Sasuke's ribcage, but Sasuke's V2 tanked Temari, Darui,Gaara and Kankuro's attack with zero damage. V2 can't tank zero damage from an attack that wrecks Ribcage if they are the same durability pound for pound.



No, it dwarfs his. Let's not overrate.




Uh, no. Sasuke's PS=Sasuke's boosted Susanoo in physical ability. Boosted Susanoo>>>Regular Susanoo.



I showed you a scan of Obito obliterating something equal to Sasuke's PS. Like I said, go read that explanation before you reply.

Hmm still not completely convinced but its kk ima double check that quote on Susanoo durability . But I leave it at this for now

*OT: Itachi would still win due to Yata & Totsuka

.

Yo in hindsight wouldn't Minato's BM avatar be weaker than BM naruto's as well if you consider just his feats

 

[Unorthodox]

Unorthodox, did you see what Naruto & Boruto's Rasengan did to Momoshiki at the end of Boruto the movie?

Adult Naruto > the last so Irrelevant

 

[KidGamer65]

Hmm still not completely convinced but its kk ima double check that quote on Susanoo durability . But I leave it at this for now

*OT: Itachi would still win due to Yata & Totsuka


Yo in hindsight wouldn't Minato's BM avatar be weaker than BM naruto's as well if you consider just his feats

Ok. Thank you.

And no. Kurama=Kurama and Minatos chakra isnt significantly weaker than Narutos.

 

[Chaosmark101]

Adult Naruto > the last so Irrelevant

Oh my bad didn't know that was the subject. Thought you were just on the subject of Rasengan

 

[Sithis]

Nope. Hyperbole and the people who are silly enough to take it literally are the only form of support that conclusion has.

Canon never showed PS>BM. Canon shows that Sasuke's PS can fight on par with Naruto's BM, but considering Itachi's Susanoo won't even be as strong as Sasuke's offensively...

Bold is where I stop taking you seriously.

You say this in multiple posts, but I'm curious what makes you say that?

We only saw Itachi use susano'o twice, once when he was pretty much dead and then as an Edo, both times they were on par with Sasuke's to say the least.

How can you compare his ribcage feats with that of Madara when neither were hit with the same attacks? Itachi's negated Kirin which was the only time we saw it used. You can't gauge the destructive power of Kirin based on one attack that was blocked, nor can you gauge the defensive abilities of Itachi's ribcage based on being able to defend Kirin.

And since when does Sasuke rib feats = Itachi's?

As far as this matchup is concerned, he has PS. According to the game, all PS is the same size, indicating similar destructive/defensive abilities, even manga proves that with susano'o

EDIT: throw on the fact that he has Totsuka which by DB is greater than PS sword and Yata which by DB is the ultimate defence, his PS is unbeatable.

 

[EZQ]

Spoiler

Fact 1: Sasuke's PS=Naruto's BM in durability, strength and speed.

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You must be registered for see links

Fact 2: Regular Senjutsu=Regular Senjutsu.

Thus anything that is equal to Naruto's Avatar in durability is automatically equal to Sasuke's PS in durability, strength and speed.

-We have Sasuke's Complete Susanoo boosted by Kyuubi and Naruto's power and Senjutsu, shown as equals in durability, speed and strength to Naruto's Avatar.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

-Subtract Senjutsu from both, and you have something equal to Sasuke's PS, and something equal to the BM Avatar.

-KCC Senjutsu Susanoo=BSM Avatar>BM Avatar=KCC Susanoo=Sasuke's PS in durability, strength and speed.

-That was destroyed by a drop slam, thus said drop slam would obliterate Sasuke's PS and probably kill him since he lacks Senjutsu here.

-Madara's Susanoo canonically protected him, without injury, from a far stronger technique.

-Thus in terms of physical ability and durability:

-Madara's PS>>>Sasuke's PS with Senjutsu=Naruto's BSM Avatar>Sasuke's PS w/o Senjutsu=Naruto's BM Avatar.

-EMS Sasuke is Itachi+Sasuke when it comes to chakra power.

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-Susanoo's power is dependent on chakra power. Stronger chakra=Stronger Susanoo.

Thus Madara's PS>>>Sasuke's PS w/ Senjutsu=Naruto's BSM Avatar>Sasuke's PS=Naruto's BM Avatar>Itachi's PS.

I applaud this part of the post

 

[Zealous Sparks]

And no. Kurama=Kurama and Minatos chakra isnt significantly weaker than Narutos.

Since Kurama is split in half
So Minato ( Base + Kurama ) Chakra ~ Naruto ( Base + Kurama ) Chakra no significant difference

Sasukes MS Chakra ~ Itachi's MS Chakra no significant difference

 

[TRE MERCER]

Im so tired of the over ration of these BM avatars.​

 

[KidGamer65]

Since Kurama is split in half
So Minato ( Base + Kurama ) Chakra ~ Naruto ( Base + Kurama ) Chakra no significant difference

Sasukes MS Chakra ~ Itachi's MS Chakra no significant difference

Except EMS Sasuke>>>MS Sasuke. So you are basically proving my point. Itachis Susanoo is nowhere near Madaras, and not as powerful as Sasukes by a good deal. Ill get to Sithis' post later.

 

[Zealous Sparks]

Except EMS Sasuke>>>MS Sasuke. So you are basically proving my point. Itachis Susanoo is nowhere near Madaras, and not as powerful as Sasukes by a good deal. Ill get to Sithis' post later.

EMS sasuke > MS sasuke in what exactly . Last time I checked ems only grants eye change, freedom from blindness and strain from using ms techs

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Im so tired of the over ration of these BM avatars.​

Over ration?
We're giving out food?

 

[BenjerminGaye]

EMS sasuke > MS sasuke in what exactly . Last time I checked ems only grants eye change, freedom from blindness and strain from using ms techs

Ems sasuke is sasuke +itachi...

 

[Zealous Sparks]

Ems sasuke is sasuke +itachi...

in what say it