[Theory] [Spoiler] There's no denying it now

GhostProject

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This is an extremely well written thread, in my opinion and I really enjoyed reading it.

There's just one thing I don't understand. If Obito used Izanagi to become the Juubi's jinchuuriki, why isn't his Sharingan eye closed? I remember when Danzo used Izanagi the Sharingan eyes started to close and lose its light. Why isn't this the case with Obito?

Thank you! =D

Most of this thread was made before the most recent chapters and Izanagi as an explanation to how he became the Juubi Jin was a prediction that didn't come true. Thanks for reminding that I needed to edit that part out, but you are right, he did not use Izanagi.

He used his life force to complete his sealing jutsu, which is why he still has a Sharingan and why his hair is white.
 
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Whiteknight

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1. It was hinted that Rikudou was a great bringer of peace. Obito is the one that brought on the greatest war in ninja history.

Yes, but he also helped create the biggest alliance of shinobi in history, something that will be the start of a new era of peace (if they win the war).

2. Rikudou separated the Bijuus from the Ten Tails. Obito is the one that brought the Bijuus back together to form the Ten Tails.

Obito didn't quite bring them all back together. Kurama and Hachibi are still separate. But, you are right that Obito's role has effectively been the opposite of the So6P here.

4. Creation: At the end of 637, Obito is covering up his Sharingan. Most likely because he used his Izanagi...

But in chapter 638 he clearly has both his eyes. I don't think he used Izanagi here. I think instead that he sealed the Juubi before he died, and the healing power of it (remember how quickly Naruto heals from wounds) was enough to save his life. Remember that Obito's body is mostly Hashirama cells, which have amazing healing properties.

Yin-Yang is a common concept in the Naruto series, however, two characters stand out as being constantly characterized with the dualism concept as part of their single character: Rikudou and Obito (Other characters are a part of this concept, but usually they are only the expression of Yin or Yang, not both)

Naruto also had a duality, which he lost at the falls of truth. Madara also has been a strong force for duality, after he gained Hashirama's powers. Zetsu too. In fact, I would say that Madara has more duality symbolism than Obito.

-Obito's body is exactly half senju, half uchiha
Same with Zetsu. Same with Madara

-Obito has the Rinnegan (Sage's Eye), and Sharingan (Curse of Hatred Eye)
Same with Madara

-Obito's white mask design is the Juubi's eye, a visual combination of both the Rinnegan and Sharingan

That's just a stylistic thing, and it was only one of his masks. His other masks had no such meaning.

What it all means:
The series buildup has reached a critical point revealing Obito to be the villain counterpart to Rikudou, and from here on out we will see the conflict buildups brought to resolution between Hashirama and Madara, the Naruto vs Sasuke fight, more attempts to save Obito's younger will of fire, and Naruto becoming the true successor to the will of Rikudou and Obito. Time to just enjoy the ride :cool:[/SIZE]

No. Obito in the past two chapters has been revealed to be a mindless killing machine, with almost no intelligence left and an incomplete control of the Juubi. Also we see that Madara still has a "trump" card ready for this situation, which supposedly will return his plan back to it's original course. The fact that Madara is distracting Hashirama away from Obito, and that Madara isn't acting concerned by these developments is proof that he's the one really in charge and that he still has a plan. Madara is the next sage, and he's going to be the "final boss" when Obito is done being used like a pawn.
 

GhostProject

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Yes, but he also helped create the biggest alliance of shinobi in history, something that will be the start of a new era of peace (if they win the war).



Obito didn't quite bring them all back together. Kurama and Hachibi are still separate. But, you are right that Obito's role has effectively been the opposite of the So6P here.



But in chapter 638 he clearly has both his eyes. I don't think he used Izanagi here. I think instead that he sealed the Juubi before he died, and the healing power of it (remember how quickly Naruto heals from wounds) was enough to save his life. Remember that Obito's body is mostly Hashirama cells, which have amazing healing properties.



Naruto also had a duality, which he lost at the falls of truth. Madara also has been a strong force for duality, after he gained Hashirama's powers. Zetsu too. In fact, I would say that Madara has more duality symbolism than Obito.


Same with Zetsu. Same with Madara


Same with Madara



That's just a stylistic thing, and it was only one of his masks. His other masks had no such meaning.



No. Obito in the past two chapters has been revealed to be a mindless killing machine, with almost no intelligence left and an incomplete control of the Juubi. Also we see that Madara still has a "trump" card ready for this situation, which supposedly will return his plan back to it's original course. The fact that Madara is distracting Hashirama away from Obito, and that Madara isn't acting concerned by these developments is proof that he's the one really in charge and that he still has a plan. Madara is the next sage, and he's going to be the "final boss" when Obito is done being used like a pawn.

This was made before it was revealed that Obito still had his sharingan, and it was wrong speculation.

Also, every character has duality, as it is the main theme in this manga. When analyzing Obito as a character, a lot of the evidence is only supporting and it cannot stand individually, but this is an incorrect way to look at it. He is simply the only character to be comprised of both ideals, characterization, and symbolic parallels that all entirely revolve around duality, without requiring another character.

We cannot undermine the fact that he is an inheritor of both the Will of Fire and Curse of Hatred, and Kishimoto reminds us of that through Madara and Kakashi hinting that Obito wanted to see the results of Naruto's Will, when he was still connected to the Juubi. The physical characteristics and character symbolism just further support the consistency of his duality. Kishimoto has just designed Obito as a character that didn't rely on a foil character for development (Especially during the Tobi, Madara, and No One phases of his character, and even now, Kakashi hinted that that his motives for what he is doing is actually because he is essentially fighting his younger self). Obito was designed with a bit of both ends of the duality spectrum, hence he is No One. Other characters have had minor duality themes within themselves, but Obito's character is ruled by it.

It's time to let Madara go. He is not duality, he is part of it. He is ruled by power. His physical manifested Will is the power to dominate others. He fits the more classic idea of a final anime villain, but the problem is that if we are aiming for a SO6P character, he fits more in the Elder Son category. Madara's character and development as developed through the story has been highly dependent on Hashirama to balance the character's highly polar ideals and characterization. He is an Elder Son, and most likely will not trump Obito, for his resolution lies with Hashirama.

Obito is the one that has committed the feats to be compared to the Sage, and Madara has feats, ideals, and character development to support his position as an Elder Son, meaning that he is dependent upon Hashirama's actions and vice versa. From a theming perspective, I cannot see Madara trumping Obito without Obito being able to overcome it, most likely through his stronger will again.

I do like your first point, however. Obito is laying the ground work for peace and the new shinobi world for Naruto and Sasuke to create. Kind of like the Sage laid the ground work for both peace, and the conflict between the Elder and Younger Son eh? =D
 

Nous

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Agreed. Well done ^.^
 

beast7960

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Pretty 100% sure that's the juubi in control, obito is lost atm. No way can obito become host of the juubi and be able to instantly use all 5 elements off the bat like that.
 

GhostProject

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Pretty 100% sure that's the juubi in control, obito is lost atm. No way can obito become host of the juubi and be able to instantly use all 5 elements off the bat like that.

It's possible. Minato keeps hinting though that it's still Obito, just without full control. We can see this when we see Obito losing control of the Juubi and his body became more directly Juubi-like, if he already lost control, we likely wouldn't have seen this shift. The Juubi or its power is definitely influencing him, but it's not out of the question that the Juubi's power/knowledge could grant him the ability to use the elements, especially if its power is as corrupting as as it seems and the Juubi is in fact bleeding over the seal heavily, kind of like with part 1 Jinchuurikis.

We might see his consciousness slip through again (like when Minato I believe said his name), and Kishimoto will probably give us more insight to what is going on with Obito then. I'm going to guess when Kakashi says Obito's name is when we'll see this.

Thank you for the post, it's a good topic right now =D
 
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