[Theory] Spiral Zetsu : Izuna's Will [Final and Revised Version]

[ROHAN]

Spoiler

it's a good theory .. but you're wrong !!! not about "izuna is Spiral Zetsu" but about his goals .. u mention in your theory about shinju , I.T , reviving Sobojo , .. and where did he got all these information ?!!! even Madara couldn't descript them with MS ... he descripted them in his EMS state .. ( so nobody couldn't know anything about I.T , Shinju , Sobojo , the eye , - including Izuna )

but the Izuna is SZ " is a plausible theory .. it was mentioned before , but not with all this clarify and expansion of facts .. nice job bro +rep

Well, considering how much the plot has progressed, I don't really see Izuna having any end goals other than Madara ( Whom he was manipulating from the start). As, such I had to give him an end goal in order to make him relevant.

If you read the prediction that I posted in that part, you will see a connecting link between Izuna and Sobojo. And this connecting link is what makes Izuna try to revive Sobojo and return his Rinnegan. I will make another theory on this when I get the time cause I didn't give any evidence in that prediction to support it.

Spoiler

Nice Work Here Dragonor!

I see potential in this theory as with all the characters occupied at the moment (i.e. Heroes vs Kaguya, Kages w/ Hagoromo); it begs to ask the question as to why is Spiral Zetsu doing?

He mentions he doesn't need the filling once the Infinite Tsukuyomi Started [

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Perhaps he's trying to sync up with the God Tree and acquire the Forbidden Fruit like you said.
At that one instance where you mentioned the cloak man, that reminded me a lot of Spiral Zetsu/Tobi's attire during this scene:

Spoiler

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One question that comes to mind is why would he be so fond of feces then lol?

Well, I wonder if he did it for a Nostalgia reason. Or it could just have been an attempt by Kishi to cover up Izuna's identity. About the Poop part, either it was another charade of his or it could be connected to Sobojo (Read TBY Theory on this).

Black Zetsu stated that the White Zetsu are people who were previously drained through the Eternal Tsukoyomi and then pulled out of the gedou...

Well,here I would combine TBY's theory with mine. I would say that Spiral Zetsu came from the fruit where Sobojo was sealed. And Madara used this Spiral Zetsu as a container For pouring Izuna's Consciousness into. And as such Izuna became Spiral Zetsu.

Well your personal beliefs fly in the face of manga facts. Madara was able to manipulate block rods AFTER awakening rinnegan, he just didn't need they eyes anymore to used that ability. Just like he doesn't need his eyes to use susanno'o. Also if he had access to a power like that but never used it once against Hashirama?

What is Susanoo, What are Black Rods ? They are called Doujutsu or more specifically Eye Techniques. How can you cast an Eye Technique if you don't have eyes ? That defies Logic. So, either Madara's Susanoo was an Asspull.

Or, He used these techniques wirelessly (I know this sounds unbelievable, but I have evidence to back it up), because even if he didn't have the eyes, he still maintained a chakra connection with his Rinnegan via the Black Rods (Obito is debatable but White Zetsu may have had these Rods).

Either he lacked the Knowledge (Limbo may be an MS technique, but Madara never had the knowledge and as such never used it) or he just didn't require it during the battle because according to the plan,

1) Madara had to obtain Hashirama's DNA.
2) Madara had to lose the Fight.
3) Dissapear from History.

If he used Black Rods or Limbo during the fight, he would have won and ruined the plans.

 

[Draxus]

What is Susanoo, What are Black Rods ? They are called Doujutsu or more specifically Eye Techniques. How can you cast an Eye Technique if you don't have eyes ? That defies Logic. So, either Madara's Susanoo was an Asspull.

Or, He used these techniques wirelessly (I know this sounds unbelievable, but I have evidence to back it up), because even if he didn't have the eyes, he still maintained a chakra connection with his Rinnegan via the Black Rods (Obito is debatable but White Zetsu may have had these Rods).

Either he lacked the Knowledge (Limbo may be an MS technique, but Madara never had the knowledge and as such never used it) or he just didn't require it during the battle because according to the plan,

1) Madara had to obtain Hashirama's DNA.
2) Madara had to lose the Fight.
3) Dissapear from History.

If he used Black Rods or Limbo during the fight, he would have won and ruined the plans.

I'll just ignore the asspull and wireless stuff because that's not really important. The point is some abilities may be awakened by a doujustu but we already know from Tobirama that the power doesn't really come from the eyes, at least from the owner of the eyes. Doujutsu are awakened by chakra in the brain, so technically the power originates there and transforms the eyes. The chakra is then stored in the eyes as well, that's why eyes other people with they eye have access to the jutsu. It's not beyond the realm of belief their is some residual change in the person who's brain created the eye.

Right... I've heard this argument before... "madara had to lose the fight to complete his plan". Sorry but that makes zero sense. Even BZ revealed izunami was the back up plan. Tell me... How would beating Hashi ruin his plans? Who exactly would have posed a challenge to Madara if Hashi died?

Ultimately though if he "Lacked knowledge" of it then again he couldn't have used them on Izuna. Not to mention you're granted an ability to rods that they don't have. They aren't able to just store people's personality or chakra, its specifically the chakra of the creator. So maybe if you went back and said Izuna was the one who put his will into a chakra rod and Madara kept it just in case he was going to clone a different persons body to bring his brother back to life.

Hey... your thread makes for good fanfic as it is thoughtful and imaginative, but too many holes for me to consider it a possibility.

 

[ROHAN]

Spoiler

I'll just ignore the asspull and wireless stuff because that's not really important. The point is some abilities may be awakened by a doujustu but we already know from Tobirama that the power doesn't really come from the eyes, at least from the owner of the eyes. Doujutsu are awakened by chakra in the brain, so technically the power originates there and transforms the eyes. The chakra is then stored in the eyes as well, that's why eyes other people with they eye have access to the jutsu. It's not beyond the realm of belief their is some residual change in the person who's brain created the eye.

Right... I've heard this argument before... "madara had to lose the fight to complete his plan". Sorry but that makes zero sense. Even BZ revealed izunami was the back up plan. Tell me... How would beating Hashi ruin his plans? Who exactly would have posed a challenge to Madara if Hashi died?

Ultimately though if he "Lacked knowledge" of it then again he couldn't have used them on Izuna. Not to mention you're granted an ability to rods that they don't have. They aren't able to just store people's personality or chakra, its specifically the chakra of the creator. So maybe if you went back and said Izuna was the one who put his will into a chakra rod and Madara kept it just in case he was going to clone a different persons body to bring his brother back to life.

Hey... your thread makes for good fanfic as it is thoughtful and imaginative, but too many holes for me to consider it a possibility.

Well while I agree with your point, I still believe that you need eyes to cast Doujutsu. If you don't have eyes, then that special chakra will have no medium by which it can become a technique. I would rather say that I will leave this to Kishi to solve if he ever does it.

As for the second point, Hashirama was Madara's biggest rival and was a huge threat to his plans. By faking his death, he was able to go undercover and plan the Takeover of the Mist Village, the Death of Hashirama, and the destruction of the Uzumakis. He was able to complete half of his plan due to going undercover.

Other threats to Madara's IT plan included the Uzumakis, The Uchihas and the Senjus, The Bijjus with the Shinobi villages, etc.

 

[Draxus]

\

As for the second point, Hashirama was Madara's biggest rival and was a huge threat to his plans. By faking his death, he was able to go undercover and plan the Takeover of the Mist Village, the Death of Hashirama, and the destruction of the Uzumakis. He was able to complete half of his plan due to going undercover.

Other threats to Madara's IT plan included the Uzumakis, The Uchihas and the Senjus, The Bijjus with the Shinobi villages, etc.

Again... why did he need to undercover though? There's no reason he couldn't have accomplished all those things without pretending to be dead. Also... where did you get that he wanted to destroy the uzumaki clan?

 

[ROHAN]

Again... why did he need to undercover though? There's no reason he couldn't have accomplished all those things without pretending to be dead. Also... where did you get that he wanted to destroy the uzumaki clan?

Madara was a Legend. Considering his famous status, there is no way he could move freely. By going undercover, he obtained a massive advantage.

Sir Derp Obito's theory stated that Madara used the Mist Village to destroy the Uzumaki clan during a Shinobi war. Timeline-wise, I think it made sense.

 

[SeBa]

i know it's more about madara that we don't know and about spiral zetsu, to be honest i don't think he is izuna but he may be loyal to madara.

Also maybe Indra was the one that rewrote the stone monument as black zetsu said he approached Indra. or who knows maybe bz just has this ability since his mother was Kaguya.

and wow i've never noticed that the right madara is different i always thought they are the same.... mhh interesting i hope we get to see more of madara in a couple of chapters.

 

[Zol]

Since we know far a fact that Spiral Zetsu is one of the victims of Kaguya's Mugen Tsukuyomi, he obviously can't be Izuna.

 

[ROHAN]

i know it's more about madara that we don't know and about spiral zetsu, to be honest i don't think he is izuna but he may be loyal to madara.

Also maybe Indra was the one that rewrote the stone monument as black zetsu said he approached Indra. or who knows maybe bz just has this ability since his mother was Kaguya.

and wow i've never noticed that the right madara is different i always thought they are the same.... mhh interesting i hope we get to see more of madara in a couple of chapters.

Well, Indra does make a perfect fit here, but the problem is that Indra had already transmigrated into Madara at that point of time. Making Indra's soul exist at two places simultaneously just sounds a bit Weird. Lol

 

[Draxus]

Madara was a Legend. Considering his famous status, there is no way he could move freely. By going undercover, he obtained a massive advantage.

Sir Derp Obito's theory stated that Madara used the Mist Village to destroy the Uzumaki clan during a Shinobi war. Timeline-wise, I think it made sense.

I have no idea what your talking about. How exactly can he move freely when, according to you, he was underground/undercover? You're contradicting yourself. He could have killed Hashirama and laid low a few decades just as easily.

I really don't get it. Are you saying if he took control over the mizukage, and everyone knew he kill hashirama people would assume "OH man you hear about all that bloody mist stuff?" "Yeah, probably Madara at it again!" And even IF people knew it was Madara... SO WHAT!?! How does people knowing what he's doing change his plan. He is the strongest ninja around by miles w/ hashi out the way. He's basically Debo from the movie Friday.

In fact... he wouldn't even need the mist village. The only reason he did that was to create an environment where he can find a ninja desperate enough to help complete his work.

Sir Derp Obito made a lot of wrong theories.

 

[xXRolex]

Verry good theory.
Finished reading the whole thing and got some questions. Didnt undersatand everything but i get your point.
But first i try to get all your thoughts in reading this multiple times maybe.

accomplished my support..

 

[Dave Stevenson]

Nice broother

 

[Flaming Amaterasu]

Very nice and very possible, though I sort of disagree with Izuna, but the rest I agree that it is very possible. I also took note of that cloaked clone... just who the hell could it have been? It is no coincidence that a dark figure was looking on as Naruto and Sasuke were about to be killed by Kag two chapters ago, I think that could be connected into whom that mysterious figure next to the madara clone is.

 

[ROHAN]

Very nice and very possible, though I sort of disagree with Izuna, but the rest I agree that it is very possible. I also took note of that cloaked clone... just who the hell could it have been? It is no coincidence that a dark figure was looking on as Naruto and Sasuke were about to be killed by Kag two chapters ago, I think that could be connected into whom that mysterious figure next to the madara clone is.

Well, the only possibility other than Izuna that I can see is Indra. No other Uchiha fits in the timeline in a logical manner. So, either it's Izuna or Indra. Whoever it may be; two things are certain : An Uchiha helped Black Zetsu and an Uchiha triggered Madara's Izanagi.

 

[NewMaster7]

Again, sigh....


You are distorting facts. The clone was by Madara not anyone else (if so then BZ would have saw them as this was all from his POV)

Izuna was nothing more than a puppet character to trigger madara's dark path, thats it. He didn't know about the rinnegan or madara's "plan" because neither of these were thought of in the time he was alive. Madara realized his goal after the Kohona was built.....way after Inzua died.

although your fuse proposal sounds nice, BZ never mention fusing with him. + BZ has an amazing life force, Madara should have noticed something was wrong with in the 30+ years he was all by himself.

BZ was keeping himself hidden until madara awaken rinnegan, as he said he would do with all potential candidates (honestly i think you are skipping pages)
He fooled Maddy into believe he created him...that could not be so if he saw cooperated with him before he even left the coffin...

but that can be debated..

But the INUZA part is a definite no

His sharingan was a gift to protect uchiha which he failed

the eventual failures of both his brother and his clan drove him mad in which he search for a reason, thus the IT interpretation

he then showed hashi, told him im coming for your neck and left the village.

The entire fight was aimed at getting his dna which he did BY HIMSELF.




while we do question why SZ looks like that it is simple

the massive zetsu clones were actually experiments, they were based on the model Madara and Kabuto thought was most efficient

The Mazo have many different versions of zetsu that we see hanging to them, they just cloned one version.



Izuna is dead and even if he was SZ he would have never let BZ solo madara and revive Kygua as they all comm. teleph. and he would have warned him.

 

[ROHAN]

1) You are distorting facts. The clone was by Madara not anyone else (if so then BZ would have saw them as this was all from his POV)

2) although your fuse proposal sounds nice, BZ never mention fusing with him. + BZ has an amazing life force, Madara should have noticed something was wrong with in the 30+ years he was all by himself.

3) Izuna is dead and even if he was SZ he would have never let BZ solo madara and revive Kygua as they all comm. teleph. and he would have warned him.

1) That was not Madara's clone. Madara's clone was actually inside the Grave. Even if it was Madara's clone; why would Kishi bother putting the clone in a cloak ? The Clone should have looked exactly like Madara. And the POV is not Black Zetsu's; it is the reader's POV.

2) Black Zetsu did fuse with Madara. And due to this; Black Zetsu was in a way Madara's will. This also explains the mental link that Madara and Black Zetsu had. The only thing here is that Black Zetsu had his own consciousness. But, since he fused with Madara; it's not far-fetched to say that Madara's Consciousness fused with Black Zetsu's.

3) He actually did let BZ solo Madara in purpose. So that Madara could attain Kaguya's power at her defeat and easily defeat Naruto and Sauske. Even though Madara doesn't know this; his defeat might actually work to his advantage.

 

[NewMaster7]

1) That was not Madara's clone. Madara's clone was actually inside the Grave. Even if it was Madara's clone; why would Kishi bother putting the clone in a cloak ? The Clone should have looked exactly like Madara. And the POV is not Black Zetsu's; it is the reader's POV.

2) Black Zetsu did fuse with Madara. And due to this; Black Zetsu was in a way Madara's will. This also explains the mental link that Madara and Black Zetsu had. The only thing here is that Black Zetsu had his own consciousness. But, since he fused with Madara; it's not far-fetched to say that Madara's Consciousness fused with Black Zetsu's.

3) He actually did let BZ solo Madara in purpose. So that Madara could attain Kaguya's power at her defeat and easily defeat Naruto and Sauske. Even though Madara doesn't know this; his defeat might actually work to his advantage.

Nevermind Im 90% sure you are just like (if not) Minamoto.

You distort facts with our own bending theories; you are trying to see where the story is going by kicking out the writer and putting yourself in the author's seat instead of accepting what we have seen and going off that.

Inzua died bro, I wish he was cooler but he, itachi, Nagato, shisui, and OBITO, are just mere victims of NV and are pawns to the story progression....thats all.

 

[NewMaster7]

These absurd theories are just like the mystery man over sasuke, or who was tobi.

People got wild with theories,

It happened to be the most obvious person.

Don't become a Minamoto bro

 

[NaruSasuRival]

I. First logic

(a) BZ said that the Zetsu are the people who were caught in a previous infinite Tsukyomi
(b) Spiral Zetsu is one of the Zetsu who are the people who were caught in a previous IT
(c) Thus, Spiral Zetsu is not Izuna's will.

II. Second logic

1. Izuna was killed as result of the badassness of Tobirama
2. Izuna's MS were taken by Madara to fight Hashirama
3. Madara was alone after he left Konoha
4. Madara himself was so alone that he gave his Rinnegans to Nagato
5. After being edo tenseied, Madara was still butthurt about the death of Izuna
6. Thus, it is pretty much clear that Izuna was long gone even before the Gedo Mazou appeared.

III. Third Logic (Yours')

i. You said that Izuna found Sobojo's Rinnegan and gave it to Madara
j. The same Izuna gave his MS to Madara so that Madara who also received the Rinnegan of Sobojo can fight god Hashirama with EMS in order to obtain his cells, which is an ingredient for awakening a Rinnegan he already got from Izuna.
k. Izuna came back in Spiral Zetsu with some chemistry and did not tell his beloved brother.
l. Most importantly, the will of Izuna has no Uchiha traits. The only power he has is Hashirama's related power.
m. This is really not a logic

IV. My take

You are going against the series.

 

[SasukexNeji]

I think it's an ancient Hyuga...

 

[Draxus]

I think it's an ancient Hyuga...

Yeah I'm sure you make some interesting fanfic.