So you think that Toneri is a fodder
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Mikeuhsomething36
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Ambivalence
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First of all, those characters will be fighting in their avatars mainly, which nullifies any speed-related comments. Even then, his speed is nothing special by that point. Adult KCM Naruto mixed with some Rikudou chakra was easily clashing with him, so BM Naruto's speed and characters around that speed tier wouldn't be that much below that it'd allow Toneri to run circles around him (which takes a big speed gap for anyone to be able to do), not unless you believe the difference in speed between BM and KCM is that much smaller than the boost Rikudou chakra gives. That's like saying JJ Obito could've lol-blitzed Naruto and Sasuke after he failed the first time, yet he didn't, and Toneri isn't on his speed level. Adding on to that, both EMS Sasuke and BSM Naruto were able to react and accurately land attacks on him in the late fight (which he blocked, but the point that he wasn't too fast for them stands), so your first point means nothing.
Second of all, his TSB were never confirmed to possess onmoyoton, and given that they're formed from the Tenseigan rather than being the Juubi's Jinchuriki or having RSM - which is what the Databook alludes onmoyoton to - you're gonna have to prove they do have it. Further strengthening this is how weak his TSB shield was compared to JJ Obito's. It took like 10 or so standard Rasengans to shatter a full-body shield, with the explosion produced nowhere near as big as what was used on Obito to just crack his TSB shield - senjutsu TBB and a V3 Arrow. That, plus the fact that regular TSB were never used as a catalyst for an energy beam (Golden Wheel Reincarnation) or the other unique ways just means his TSB =/= manga TSB.
Hamura's monster is allowed? Guess that just means nobody below EMS Madara can take him out, though BM Minato can pretty much still do it with good use of FTG.
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HashiraMadara
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wild speculation pulled out of the ass :| BM Naruto alone was nothing to Juubito
JStar King
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Or the fact that Naruto had Kurama to help him just like in his other fightsThat's not about Toneri being a fodder, but about Naruto being a beast
gerizzyYMcrew
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all truth seeking balls are made of yin-yang...did you even read the truth seeking ball entry in databook 4?
~Ethereal~
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Ambivalence
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Lol, please. As I already said, Databook 4 only referenced TSB that were in the manga by the time the DB was written, which were only JJ's and RSM's TSB. Tenseigan probably wasn't even thought of at that point, let alone the TSB it gives.
Just give me a page where it says TSB produced from the Tenseigan are exactly the same (which they are not, if you watched the movie) and then you'll have a point.
gerizzyYMcrew
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you would have had a point if kishimoto did not state that The Last was CANON :sdo:
ps in what way were toneri's truth seekers different from any other in the series???
WalksInShadows
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Ambivalence
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So? I didn't say The Last isn't canon, I said that Databook TSB info was only made with JJ and RSM TSB in mind.
Start reading:
- His TSB are formed from the Tenseigan, not from Ten Tails Coffin Seal or RSM
- His TSB are green with a corresponding aura around them, whereas manga TSB are black with no glow
- His TSB have demonstrated far inferior durability than manga TSB (explained in my reply to Thanos)
- His TSB were used in unique ways, like transforming into an energy beam, which manga TSB have not
- His TSB were never shown or stated to possess all Nature Transformation, and subsequently - onmoyoton
- His TSB were never taken into account when DB4's TSB page was written, as that was good amount of time before the movie
gerizzyYMcrew
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and kishimoto decided to reject those things in his canon ass movie I am sure :sdo:
this is nothing...obito formed a truth seeker out of black zetsu...hagoromo and hamura form truth seekers out of their own chakra...apparently kaguya formed truth seekers out of thin air before...this means nothing.
apparently you missed the part where toneri's truth seekers WERE FORMED BLACK THEN INFUSED WITH TENSEIGAN CHAKRA
this means nothing...especially since truth seekers are ineffective against senjutsu...which is what naruto was using
like how naruto turned his truth seekers into giant ass ransenshuriken?
see databook 4 where kishimoto stated that all truth seekers possess all 5 natures + yin-yang :sdo: even kaguya's big ass one
oh you mean like how sasuke's dimension hopping was never taken into account when databook 4 was written?...or like how naruto and kurama can fight seperately when in chakra mode?...or momoshiki possessing the rinnegan?...what kind of ****tard logic is this?
To Whatever
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LoZelda101
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Illuminater
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Ambivalence
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No, he just made up completely new TSB with new properties. That's all there is to it. Not saying they're not cannon, I'm saying they aren't manga TSB.
Lmfao.
1. Obito formed a TSB only after he took some JJ Madara's Rikudou chakra. So still same requirement, plus that probably wasn't even a true JJ TSB, as Obito only gained its negation properties after he took control of the Juubi.
2. Lol, Hagoromo has Rikudou Senjutsu naturally, so of course he'd be able to produce TSB. Hamura had TSB even before he had Tenseigan [
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]. 3. If Kaguya, the original wielder of Rikudou chakra forming a TSB surprises you there is little point to go on.
ALL of those instances are formed from a variant of RSM (TTCS is also one), so what you wrote is meaningless.
Nope, I didn't, and that's not the point. Hamura and Toneri's Tenseigan, the source of the TSB, doesn't posses nor grant all Nature Transformations + Yin-Yang, which is where the negation part of TSB come from. Furthermore, I never saw any mode or eye power influence manga TSB the way it did Toneri's, so...
Lmao, both the Senjutsu TBB and V3 Arrow had Senjutsu buffing them as well, yet they only cracked Obito's shield, while Toneri's was destroyed. Whatever amount of Rikudou chakra was in them was nowhere near enough for the difference in techniques, as a TBB is at least 20 times more powerful than a standard Rasengan. Add to that that the explosion was visibly a lot smaller than the attack Obito blocked, which dwarfed Kurama and V3 Susano'o and you don't have any argument again.
All he did was use TSB as a core for a BDRS, which he could've just made with a TBB instead, but of course TSB was faster. Later on, against Sasuke, he didn't use a TSB. So can TBB be turned into giant swords as well?
Yeah, all manga TSB, and with good reason, as all those came from sources that actually possess those natures and Yin-Yang. Nothing on the Tenseigan entry or Tenseigan Chakra Mode says anything like that.
What? :lol Why are you listing things never before shown when what we have here is two different variants of TSB, one of which hasn't displayed the same feats and is shown to behave differently than the ones in the manga. If someone started using a technique called "Amenotejikara", but it was different to Sasuke's, then that would be the same thing as what we're arguing now and you'd still be here claiming it's the same thing because "hurr, it has the same name and databook which was written before it cameo'd t said so". Just learn how to give proper examples, none of those have any merit whatsoever.
Same concept is with CT, pretty much, and the 3 different uses between wielders we've seen, which doesn't prove each of them can replicate the other's feat. Just like how Tenseigan TSB =/= RSM TSB.
gerizzyYMcrew
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you must be blind...he created the same black truth seeking balls...he just infused them with tenseigan chakra...the same way obito infused HIS truth seekers with the red chakra of the six red yang seal...if you know how to analyze you'd realize that.
how the **** does that negate the fact that he created the truth seeker out of black zetsu's body?
which proves my point :sdo: unless hamura's six paths senjutsu isn't a result of his OWN chakra now. OR do you think that toneri using tenseigan and creating the same truth seekers as anybody else (they were freaking black upon creation) makes it any less invalid in a movie stated to be CANON
I never stated it surprised me...that was not my point when I bought up kaguya...please learn how to analyze while reading.
so are you telling me that tenseigan chakra mode is not a variant or unrelated to six paths senjutsu in any way?...last time I checked toneri produced the same black truth seekers as anyone else upon the jutsu's activation...this is not a point.
Truthseeker Orbs
Listed as just a Ninjutsu (not Kekkei Mōra), used by Madara, Obito, and Naruto. It says that when an individual manifests (literally "blossoms" 開花) Six Paths Senjutsu, black orbs comprising the power of all five elements and yin-yang appear, forming a circle that floats behind them. They can manipulate each orb independently. Each orb is about the size of a fist and hides within enough power to completely obliterate a forest. With the power of Creation of All Things, put simply, the shape of the black orbs can be freely altered, and the many natures comprising them can be combined to manifest a variety of effects. It is a power that easily exceeds both Kekkei Genkai and Kekkei Tōta.
Listed as just a Ninjutsu (not Kekkei Mōra), used by Madara, Obito, and Naruto. It says that when an individual manifests (literally "blossoms" 開花) Six Paths Senjutsu, black orbs comprising the power of all five elements and yin-yang appear, forming a circle that floats behind them. They can manipulate each orb independently. Each orb is about the size of a fist and hides within enough power to completely obliterate a forest. With the power of Creation of All Things, put simply, the shape of the black orbs can be freely altered, and the many natures comprising them can be combined to manifest a variety of effects. It is a power that easily exceeds both Kekkei Genkai and Kekkei Tōta.
The Last= CANON :sdo: :sdo: :sdo:
@ bold it's not me who's arguing fool...it's you lololololol
also how does durability disprove my coment in any way shape or form? (pun intended) ALSO those ransengan did not break toneri's truth seeker shield at all...in case you forgot the shield was STILL UP after naruto landed those massive rasengan. it only broke after naruto slammed toneri THOUGH it...meaning you just make that shit up.
Truthseeker Orbs
Listed as just a Ninjutsu (not Kekkei Mōra), used by Madara, Obito, and Naruto. It says that when an individual manifests (literally "blossoms" 開花) Six Paths Senjutsu, black orbs comprising the power of all five elements and yin-yang appear, forming a circle that floats behind them. They can manipulate each orb independently. Each orb is about the size of a fist and hides within enough power to completely obliterate a forest. With the power of Creation of All Things, put simply, the shape of the black orbs can be freely altered, and the many natures comprising them can be combined to manifest a variety of effects. It is a power that easily exceeds both Kekkei Genkai and Kekkei Tōta.
Listed as just a Ninjutsu (not Kekkei Mōra), used by Madara, Obito, and Naruto. It says that when an individual manifests (literally "blossoms" 開花) Six Paths Senjutsu, black orbs comprising the power of all five elements and yin-yang appear, forming a circle that floats behind them. They can manipulate each orb independently. Each orb is about the size of a fist and hides within enough power to completely obliterate a forest. With the power of Creation of All Things, put simply, the shape of the black orbs can be freely altered, and the many natures comprising them can be combined to manifest a variety of effects. It is a power that easily exceeds both Kekkei Genkai and Kekkei Tōta.
so using truth seekers as a catalyst is too out of the question in a series like NARUTO???...remember The Last= CANON
naruto turning truth seekers into tailed beast bombs completely NEGATES this foolish ass notion.
The Last= canon...keep denying it...if you deny it then the manga's truth seekers AREN'T CANON :sdo:
^^^ this is not a counter to my comment at all...in fact you misquoted me stupid...lolololololol
also @ bold has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read...so if toneri's truth seekers are not truth seekers then what the hell would you call them :sdo: ****TARD
this entire thing started because you stated toneri's truth seekers don't have yin-yang when ALL TRUTH SEEKERS CANNOT BE CREATED WITHOUT THE PRESENCE OF SUCH A THING AS STATED BY KISHIMOTO...WHO ALSO STATED THE LAST= CANON.
are you a ****ing liar?...yes you are :bdpf:
all truth seekers are the same ****ing thing...all 5 elements + yin-yang as stated by kishimoto who also stated The Last= canon.
kishimoto >>>>>>>>>>>>> you in case you forgot :sdo:
