So, WHO can beat Orange Mask Tobi? (Full intel, no prep time)

[Takos]

Distance is irrelevant. The one used on Kakashi and Gai was much more spaced out than the one used on SA, which wasn't spaced out at all, because the latter wasn't used with Kamui while the former was. Like I said, all you are doing at this point is contesting manga facts.

All you're doing in return is claiming that I'm contesting manga facts. That's not any better, because that's a blunt statement anyone can make.
Distance isn't irrelevant. The more you increase distance, the smaller the breaks between the rings will seem.

That has nothing to do with what I said. You said they could simply move around in the Kamui dimension and find where Obito phased even though Naruto's clone could have done the same exact thing. Like I said, if this was possible, stressing the timing would have been irrelevant.

What? Naruto's clone was sent to kamuiland only once, and that was to break Obito's mask. An element of surprise was important there, as opposed to a 1v1 scenario we're talking about, with fresh chakra and full intel.
Obviously, Kakashi would have to stay around the same place in which his clone warped itself, but it doesn't mean he could not move at all. And if Obito keeps his distance, he has nothing that can take Kakashi down. So his only choice is to come closer, which will end like this if he is attacked and phases:

Spoiler

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Or like this, if he decides to engage Kakashi in close range without phasing:

Spoiler

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Uh no. Without the above requirements, the clone strategy is a shit counter to Kamui, and will only lead to Kakashi wasting half of his chakra. Creating a clone without him knowing is useless as he doesn't need Kamui to finish off Kakashi, so he doesn't need to warp him away so he can't counter Kamui like that.

Lol, first you say how Kamui is enough to handle Kakashi, then you say "screw that, he doesn't need Kamui" when you realize that using Kamui against Kakashi is almost a suicide.
You never cease to amaze me.


We both know how Kakashi vs Obito ended, yeah, Obito handled Kakashi pretty well even without Kamui. U_U
Except getting his ass beaten in a few seconds.

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[KidGamer65]

Wind provides oxygen. Oxygen makes fire hotter and bigger. This is basic logic and it's the same logic Kishi uses.

That's your entire point, that a bigger Katon will be able to evaporate Suiton. How does evaporation occur in the most simplest of terms? Heat.

Then naturally a bigger fire would be hotter than a smaller fire as there is no way to make a fire bigger without making it hotter as well.

The balls? He didn't get that large of a distance distance in a 3v2 and now in a 1v1, he's going to essentially run away from Kakashi to launch a Juubi-sized Katon? No one ever in this manga has been that far away in a 1v1. Haven't a clue what you've been reading.

Kamui allows him to move around the battlefield with ease, I have zero reason to believe he can't gain distance and do so, because he definitely can. You telling me it hasn't been done in the manga isn't a good reason.

lol, even though I made it so clear that Kakashi can still counter Obito's Katon after he's fired it, you said that?

You've only attempted to make it clear that he can counter it before it gets to its full size, which is impossible. You haven't made it clear that he can counter it after its been fired.

 

[Takos]

Kamui allows him to move around the battlefield with ease, I have zero reason to believe he can't gain distance and do so, because he definitely can. You telling me it hasn't been done in the manga isn't a good reason.

You seem to forget Kakashi can teleport as well. :|
Even if for some weird reason Obito decides to move away half a kilometer and casts a katon, Kakashi can simply teleport behind him. And then repeat what he's done to Obito's chest already.
(That won't happen in kamuiland though, because BR requires Kamui)
And if it's in the normal dimension, then even a simple doton is enough.
Still clinging to the good ol' BR argument. Sweet.

 

[KidGamer65]

All you're doing in return is claiming that I'm contesting manga facts. That's not any better, because that's a blunt statement anyone can make.
Distance isn't irrelevant. The more you increase distance, the smaller the breaks between the rings will seem.

-I've provided manga facts.

-You are contesting them.

My statement can be made because I have already provided the facts, where are the facts you've provided? Oh wait, none. BR doesn't require Kamui and that's a fact.

What? Naruto's clone was sent to kamuiland only once, and that was to break Obito's mask. An element of surprise was important there, as opposed to a 1v1 scenario we're talking about, with fresh chakra and full intel

Obviously, Kakashi would have to stay around the same place in which his clone warped itself, but it doesn't mean he could not move at all. And if Obito keeps his distance, he has nothing that can take Kakashi down. So his only choice is to come closer, which will end like this if he is attacked and phases:

An element of surprise is irrelevant, cause if Obito is phasing and someone is in front of him in his own dimension ready to attack him, there is nothing he can do about it.

lmao, what the hell? Kakashi's position is irrelevant, if he doesn't warp his clone at the spot where Obito phased into then the clone strategy simply won't work going by what the manga has shown us. Not debatable, this is how Obito has been hit every, single time.

Lol, first you say how Kamui is enough to handle Kakashi, then you say "screw that, he doesn't need Kamui" when you realize that using Kamui against Kakashi is almost a suicide.
You never cease to amaze me.

Kamui isn't just warping someone away. Kamui is intangibility and teleportation as well. So no, I never said he can win without Kamui.

You never cease to amaze me with your inability to read and comprehend exactly what you are reading.

We both know how Kakashi vs Obito ended, yeah, Obito handled Kakashi pretty well even without Kamui. U_U
Except getting his ass beaten in a few seconds.

Except this is Obito WITH Kamui, so I'm not interested in this part of your post.

You seem to forget Kakashi can teleport as well. :|
Even if for some weird reason Obito decides to move away half a kilometer and casts a katon, Kakashi can simply teleport behind him. And then repeat what he's done to Obito's chest already.
And if it's in the normal dimension, then even a simple doton is enough.
Still clinging to the good ol' BR argument. Sweet.

Cause Obito can't just phase through it amirite? Oh wait....he can.

lol? I never said BR was what would defeat Kakashi, cause he can counter it via Hiding like a mole. I'm just saying that Kakashi countering it with Suiton is just about one of the dumbest things I've heard all week. Again, reading skills. Use them, cause so far you are showing me you can't do so.

 

[-Sky-]

Regardless of all this debating, let's be real. Rinnegan Obito can summon the Gedo Mazo.. Kakashi cannot handle that.

And no, he can't Kamui it as Obito would counter it:

Spoiler

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[Takos]

-I've provided manga facts.

-You are contesting them.

My statement can be made because I have already provided the facts, where are the facts you've provided? Oh wait, none. BR doesn't require Kamui and that's a fact.

Your manga facts being what? xd
As I recall, it's actually BR's swirling, Obito's MS active and Obito using Kamui for BR earlier that ARE manga facts. Well, guess the definition of a manga fact changed to better suit KidGamer65's claims.

An element of surprise is irrelevant, cause if Obito is phasing and someone is in front of him in his own dimension ready to attack him, there is nothing he can do about it.

Yes, but if he doesn't expect anyone to be in that dimension, he won't be as careful when using Kamui to phase.

lmao, what the hell? Kakashi's position is irrelevant, if he doesn't warp his clone at the spot where Obito phased into then the clone strategy simply won't work going by what the manga has shown us. Not debatable, this is how Obito has been hit every, single time.

RIGHT, how stupid of me to think Kakashi can... *gasp* MOVE in kamuiland. :Omg:
Besides, I never said Kakashi's clone needs to hit Obito EVERY DAMN TIME he phases.
No. Just one Raikiri is enough.
If Obito has no knowledge on Kakashi's clone being there, he won't care about keeping his distance from the spot the clone warped from.
And if he has knowledge on it, then he will be fearing getting killed if he phases, so he'll use it only as an absolute necessity, which already gives Kakashi an advantage.

Except this is Obito WITH Kamui, so I'm not interested in this part of your post.

The thing is, I showed you that

1. If Obito engages Kakashi close-range without phasing, then Kakashi will take this opportunity to kamui both of them and then raikiri-blitz Obito like he was about to in the manga. Or just kick non-phasing Obito's ass in taijutsu, like he did in the manga.

2. If he engages Kakashi in close combat WITH Kamui, then he risks getting his ass raikiri'd, which is even more dangerous seeing as he won't be able to see or hear the attack coming (to at least try to move a little to avoid fatal injury).

3. If he doesn't engage Kakashi in close combat and instead moves away, then Kakashi will remain in the same spot - not wanting to get "too far" from his clone in kamuiland. Then Obito can either screw this and try #1 or #2, or attack long-range. In this case his only jutsu potent enough to take down Kakashi will be BR, which can be easily avoided by going underground.

Cause Obito can't just phase through it amirite? Oh wait....he can.

lol? I never said BR was what would defeat Kakashi, cause he can counter it via Hiding like a mole. I'm just saying that Kakashi countering it with Suiton is just about one of the dumbest things I've heard all week. Again, reading skills. Use them, cause so far you are showing me you can't do so.

I meant Kamuiland. In Kamuiland Obito would not be able to phase through it.
Obviously, as you said, doton is enough to avoid BR in normal dimension.

 

[Touken]

If you guys are carrying this on tomorrow then I'll counter but this is cutting into my Breaking Bad time and it's almost midnight here.

One last point though, I never said Kakashi'll be able to counter Obito's Katon once it's gotten to that massive size. He'll be countering it before it's gotten to that size.

Anyway, g'night peeps.

 

[Takos]

If you guys are carrying this on tomorrow then I'll counter but this is cutting into my Breaking Bad time and it's almost midnight here.

One last point though, I never said Kakashi'll be able to counter Obito's Katon once it's gotten to that massive size. He'll be countering it before it's gotten to that size.

Anyway, g'night peeps.

Night. I'll soon be going, too. Getting pretty late here.

 

[KidGamer65]

If you guys are carrying this on tomorrow then I'll counter but this is cutting into my Breaking Bad time and it's almost midnight here.

One last point though, I never said Kakashi'll be able to counter Obito's Katon once it's gotten to that massive size. He'll be countering it before it's gotten to that size.

Anyway, g'night peeps.

Then I guess I can agree, if that's really how the Katon works. I don't see the point of continuing this since I agree Katon isn't going to finish him off.

 

[KidGamer65]

Your manga facts being what? xd
As I recall, it's actually BR's swirling, Obito's MS active and Obito using Kamui for BR earlier that ARE manga facts. Well, guess the definition of a manga fact changed to better suit KidGamer65's claims.

BR when influenced by Kamui.

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If it doesn't look like this, Kamui isn't being used on it. Its a fact, if you aren't going to provide anything useful to contest this then I'm not going to bother replying to this point anymore, as the manga has already spoken.

Deal with it.

Yes, but if he doesn't expect anyone to be in that dimension, he won't be as careful when using Kamui to phase.

So now you are telling me Kakashi is going to be able to use Kamui on his own clone all while Obito doesn't notice he did so? lmao, dafuq?

RIGHT, how stupid of me to think Kakashi can... *gasp* MOVE in kamuiland. :Omg:
Besides, I never said Kakashi's clone needs to hit Obito EVERY DAMN TIME he phases.
No. Just one Raikiri is enough.
If Obito has no knowledge on Kakashi's clone being there, he won't care about keeping his distance from the spot the clone warped from.
And if he has knowledge on it, then he will be fearing getting killed if he phases, so he'll use it only as an absolute necessity, which already gives Kakashi an advantage.

Irrelevant part of your post. Manga has already shown us how to counter Kamui, your shitty method will only lead to his clone getting one shotted from inside the dimension.

-If he has knowledge on it, which he obviously will, all he needs to do is avoid that spot, or warp into the dimension, finish his clone, and then come back, its as simple as that.

The thing is, I showed you that

1. If Obito engages Kakashi close-range without phasing, then Kakashi will take this opportunity to kamui both of them and then raikiri-blitz Obito like he was about to in the manga. Or just kick non-phasing Obito's ass in taijutsu, like he did in the manga.

He won't do so, so irrelevant.

2. If he engages Kakashi in close combat WITH Kamui, then he risks getting his ass raikiri'd, which is even more dangerous seeing as he won't be able to see or hear the attack coming (to at least try to move a little to avoid fatal injury).

No he doesn't, because he can't do anything to him from the Kamui dimension or in the real world.

3. If he doesn't engage Kakashi in close combat and instead moves away, then Kakashi will remain in the same spot - not wanting to get "too far" from his clone in kamuiland. Then Obito can either screw this and try #1 or #2, or attack long-range. In this case his only jutsu potent enough to take down Kakashi will be BR, which can be easily avoided by going underground.

All Obito has to do is not go near there, and there are multiple options he has for long range.

-Mokuton. [

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] [

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] [

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]

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, forcing him to remove himself from the area his clone is in, meaning Obito doesn't have to worry about any attacks from the other side.

-Bakufu Rambu is still of use as it was

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, if focused on the ground it could hit Kakashi or force him to move away from the area.

-Finally, he can simply take care of the clone in the Kamui dimension.

I meant Kamuiland. In Kamuiland Obito would not be able to phase through it.
Obviously, as you said, doton is enough to avoid BR in normal dimension.

'

There is no reason that he can't phase while in Kamui land, Kamui lets him move between dimensions, that's it.

 

[Strict]

Kakashi's Kamui has no effect on Obito. Obito however could still use it to let certain attacks pass through him. Though Kakashi perfected Kamui for non-Uchiha standards, his techniques put still a considerable drain on his Chakra.

Even if we argue that their Kamui would cancel each other, Izanagi is not countered. For a period of 10 minutes, Obito enjoys full immortality and can spamm stuff, which will cost Kakashi Chakra whenever he tries to dodge it. Wood Release, Legendary Katon and oversized weaponry he releases from his dimension.

In fact Kakashi would barely survive the period of Izanagi, since he could do nothing but try to avoid anything Obito throws at him. While using Izanagi, Obito still makes use of the versatility of his Kamui; for example appearing from different spots like the ground [

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].

For objective eyes it is clear, that their fight in the Kamui dimension wasn't held on fair grounds.

 

[Totsuka gg Amaterasu gg]

Konoha's Yellow Flash Minato solo's (even though I don't like him)

 

[Strict]

I'm sceptical whether Minato would win again, at least if Obito would keep in mind his last defeat against him. There is the possibility that Obito activates his Izanagi in the beginning and thus possesses full immortality along with Kamui. We should probably take into account his powerful Genjutsu, which were wasted on Kyuubi.

 

[Champ]

I'm sceptical whether Minato would win again, at least if Obito would keep in mind his last defeat against him. There is the possibility that Obito activates his Izanagi in the beginning and thus possesses full immortality along with Kamui. We should probably take into account his powerful Genjutsu, which were wasted on Kyuubi.

I agree strict, Obito would win

 

[Scryed]

Is this a Kakashi vs MS Obito thread in disguise? >.>

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Hanzo might be able to work it out.

Kabuto, Naruto, Madara, Senju Bros and Sasuke take it with relative ease.

 

[Takos]

Kakashi's Kamui has no effect on Obito. Obito however could still use it to let certain attacks pass through him. Though Kakashi perfected Kamui for non-Uchiha standards, his techniques put still a considerable drain on his Chakra.

Even if we argue that their Kamui would cancel each other, Izanagi is not countered. For a period of 10 minutes, Obito enjoys full immortality and can spamm stuff, which will cost Kakashi Chakra whenever he tries to dodge it. Wood Release, Legendary Katon and oversized weaponry he releases from his dimension.

In fact Kakashi would barely survive the period of Izanagi, since he could do nothing but try to avoid anything Obito throws at him. While using Izanagi, Obito still makes use of the versatility of his Kamui; for example appearing from different spots like the ground [

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].

For objective eyes it is clear, that their fight in the Kamui dimension wasn't held on fair grounds.

This is a very interesting argument, however, Kakashi has a counter to Izanagi:
he can simply teleport away. While both Kakashi and Obito can use Kamui for teleporting wherever they want, everything indicates they can specify the location of teleport, not the target. Meaning, if Obito doesn't know where Kakashi teleports, he can't chase him.
Thus, Obito would waste an eye. And he certainly wouldn't use his MS eye for Izanagi, because he'd lose Kamui, which would be fatal for him.

Also, why do you say their fight in Kamui dimension wasn't a fair one? It certainly was, it started in the normal dimension with Obito attacking Kakashi and Kakashi then used his Kamui to teleport both of them to kamuiland. That's a fully legitimate way of defeating someone.

 

[nakumaru]

Kabuto,Minato,Madara,Hashirama,Current Naruto, Current Sasuke and Nagato.

 

[iEspada]

Kakashi is not beating Obito. Mokuton and Izanagi > fodder techniques of Kakashi with Raikiri

 

[awesomeseimei]

Is this a Kakashi vs MS Obito thread in disguise? >.>

It wasn't supposed to be :|