So this is BSM naruto VS Rikodou Powered Sasuke?

[V h o]

lol BSM Naruto.

 

[Shinato]

I agree with you more or less, but Naruto also has rikudo chakra, what makes you believe only sasuke has it?

Yeah, sorry about that. I forgot to mention it, so I edited it.. x3

 

[Mr Hiru]

My Point is that Naruto is not using any of his RM feats.Naruto is using BSM feats like Kurama avatar rather than ashura avatar

I understand that

- SM Naruto has all the features of Base Naruto + Senjutsu manipulation
- BSM has all the features of SM Naruto and BM Naruto
- And RM Naruto has all the features of BSM Naruto + the Senjutsu of Six Paths (The Sage's Body).

If you follow me until this point, we should agree.

The problem I see in your logic is that you got it backwards from the moment where Gudou Dama enter into this scenario.

If Naruto were really using only BSM features... why is he using TSB/Gudou Dama? That's not a BSM feature nor a feature of the 9 Bijuu, this is a feature inherited by Rikudou Chakra. Ergo, there is a contradiction in your logic right here.

I have evidence to prove this point, but I'd prefer to keep it for myself until you ask for it.

The only thing that Bijuu do for Naruto is lending them nature transformation for creating variants of the Rasengan, nothing more.

---

Anyways, I'm glad we can at least agree that Naruto is currently using Rikudou Mode. Now the thing is to discuss if Naruto is using Rikudou Mode features, which I'm stating as a certainity.

 

[SIR UZMAKIMADARA]

You just happened to avoid mentioning a lot of Sasuke's powers while mentioning several of the same powers on Naruto as different powers? That is clear fanboying, so let me correct you.

Sasuke has:
- Perfect Susano'o
- Susano'o Arrows
- Yasaka Magatama (Amaterasu Infused)
- Enton (Several jutsus)
- Chidori + Variants
- Fire Release (Several jutsus)
- Chibaku Tensei
- Rinnegan Shift
- Rinnegan Genjutsu
- Rikudou Chakra
- Summoning: Hawk
- Summoning: Snake

Naruto Has:
- Rasengan
- Rasenshuriken + Variants
- Tailed Beast Bomb + Truth Seeker Ball Variants (This includes the black rods)
- Kurama Avatar
- Rikudou Chakra
- Chakra Cloak + Chakra Arms (They are one and the same)
- Summoning: Toad
- Sage Mode

- - - -

That means Sasuke has several more abilities he can use compared to Naruto. Of these they have used:

Sasuke:
- Firestyle: Fireball Jutsu
- Perfect Susano'o
- Chidori + Susano'o Chidori
- Rinnegan Shift
- Susano'o Arrows

Naruto:
- Truth-Seeker Balls
- Kurama Avatar
- Tailed Beast Bomb
- Chakra Cloak
- Sage Mode

Now Sasuke is the one attacking and Naruto is defending, its logical that Sasuke will have used a more variated form of attack and the fact that he has more to use in the first place also comes into play. Sasuke comments that if Naruto keeps this up he will die, he never states that Naruto is going easy on him. He is mocking Naruto, if Naruto was going easy on him then Sasuke would be mad and feel insulted. (Like Madara would have.) Sasuke is saying that at the current power, Naruto will lose. Mocking him to use all his power, but it also proves that Sasuke states that he has greater power to use himself as we know that when Naruto is holding back, he is equal in power to Sasuke right now.

Yet, Sasuke is certain that Naruto will lose if he only is able to use the current power he is. That means Sasuke can increase his power, and thus not fighting seriously right now. Neither are fighting seriously and its a fight between; Rinnegan Sasuke and Rikudou Naruto.

I could make a whole list of Naruto and Sasuke's jutsus from Frog kata to Kirin but i just pointed out the things which they both uses often.

Naruto hadn't use any of his RM feats.

Chakra arms of RM naruto was completely different than BSM/BM But Currently naruto is just using kurama not all beasts.RM naruto who fought against Madara and Kaguya was using all tailed beast's powers.Show me a single scan in which naruto had use any of his RM feats.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

This fight is pure fight of BSM naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke.

Edited:I forgot to mention Amaterasu :|

Kishimoto has this fight so contrived that it makes no sense at all. Handicapped from the start, inconsistent as hell (as compared to other battles against PS) - ridiculous.

Only purpose in this fight now is fan service, to milk readers for a few more chapters.

exactly.This fight makes no sense at all

 

[jiraiya nindo]

Np dude, we're only stating the facts and narutards like that guy just love to try and downplay any uchiha, but when it comes to sasuke, he and some other nutcases believe anything less then rikudo mode can touch sasuke, and I'm not even a sasuke fan, I'm a itachi and madara fan, imagine that haha.



I agree with you more or less, but Naruto also has rikudo chakra, what makes you believe only sasuke has it?

rasengan variants should be listed individually and not clumped together. They each have a specific nature transformation which, in fact, makes them completely separate and unique jutsu.

Rasengan is only chakra, after all. So a suiton or a lava style rasengan is completely different than a fuuton rasengan or rasenshuriken.

All of sasuke's enton attacks are basically the same.....enton. They burn.

Would be wrong to classify naruto's rasengan variants on the same level.

 

[Shinato]

I could make a whole list of Naruto and Sasuke's jutsus from Frog kata to Kirin but i just pointed out the things which they both uses often.

Naruto hadn't use any of his RM feats.

Chakra arms of RM naruto was completely different than BSM/BM But Currently naruto is just using kurama not all beasts.RM naruto who fought against Madara and Kaguya was using all tailed beast's powers.Show me a single scan in which naruto had use any of his RM feats.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

This fight is pure fight of BSM naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke.

Edited:I forgot to mention Amaterasu :|

exactly.This fight makes no sense at all

The powers they mainly use? Sasuke has been overusing Enton since he got it, its variants too. Yet you decided to place;

- Truth Seeker Balls
- Black Rods

When they are the same?

 

[Flaming Amaterasu]

rasengan variants should be listed individually and not clumped together. They each have a specific nature transformation which, in fact, makes them completely separate and unique jutsu.

Rasengan is only chakra, after all. So a suiton or a lava style rasengan is completely different than a fuuton rasengan or rasenshuriken.

All of sasuke's enton attacks are basically the same.....enton. They burn.

Would be wrong to classify naruto's rasengan variants on the same level.

I would agree with you, but those aren't naruto's techs, they are the tailed beasts giving him their power to use them, so technically, rasengan and the wind variant is of naruto's power, which is what is being outlined here, sasuke and naruto's power, not the power they can use from others (like sasuke can use the tailed beasts at his whim in this fight).

Yeah, sorry about that. I forgot to mention it, so I edited it.. x3

All good dude ^_^

 

[Shinato]

rasengan variants should be listed individually and not clumped together. They each have a specific nature transformation which, in fact, makes them completely separate and unique jutsu.

Rasengan is only chakra, after all. So a suiton or a lava style rasengan is completely different than a fuuton rasengan or rasenshuriken.

All of sasuke's enton attacks are basically the same.....enton. They burn.

Would be wrong to classify naruto's rasengan variants on the same level.

Should we label every Enton ability separately? Maybe we should list all the Chidori variants? As Rasenshuriken is just a variant of Rasengan after all.

 

[SIR UZMAKIMADARA]

Naruto is clearly in RM mode...but you do bring up a good point UZUMAKIMADARA.

What if naruto is in RM mode but is only using his BSM mode kyuubi avatar because he is holding back from fighting sasuke at full strength?

Maybe, naruto is only using the kyuubi's chakra actively right now (even though he has all bijuu chakra inside him)? That could mean that when he gets serious, he could automatically have access to the ashura avatar (speculated to contain all bijuu chakra)

OR

even cooler, he would be able to switch from the kyuubi(only) avatar to a shukaku(only) avatar or a gyuuki(only) avatar. That would make him so overpowered and awesome.

Yeah i agree with you bro.that will be too OP =D

I understand that

- SM Naruto has all the features of Base Naruto + Senjutsu manipulation
- BSM has all the features of SM Naruto and BM Naruto
- And RM Naruto has all the features of BSM Naruto + the Senjutsu of Six Paths (The Sage's Body).

If you follow me until this point, we should agree.

The problem I see in your logic is that you got it backwards from the moment where Gudou Dama enter into this scenario.

If Naruto were really using only BSM features... why is he using TSB/Gudou Dama? That's not a BSM feature nor a feature of the 9 Bijuu, this is a feature inherited by Rikudou Chakra. Ergo, there is a contradiction in your logic right here.

I have evidence to prove this point, but I'd prefer to keep it for myself until you ask for it.

The only thing that Bijuu do for Naruto is lending them nature transformation for creating variants of the Rasengan, nothing more.

---

Anyways, I'm glad we can at least agree that Naruto is currently using Rikudou Mode. Now the thing is to discuss if Naruto is using Rikudou Mode features, which I I'm stating as a certainity.

you're right bro.I'm just saying that currently naruto is just using BSM feats.
So far it looks like naruto will just use Kurama.May be Naruto will use other tailed beasts chakra.

 

[SIR UZMAKIMADARA]

The powers they mainly use? Sasuke has been overusing Enton since he got it, its variants too. Yet you decided to place;

- Truth Seeker Balls
- Black Rods

When they are the same?

I already wrote that i forgot about amaterasu and Enton.

Chakra rods are different than TSBs just like Nonuboku sword functions completely different than regular TSBs

 

[Shinato]

I already wrote that i forgot about amaterasu and Enton.

Chakra rods are different than TSBs just like Nonuboku sword functions completely different than regular TSBs

Madara and Obito's staffs didn't work differently than the Truth-Seeker Balls, neither does Naruto's rods. Its a different shape of the same thing.

 

[jiraiya nindo]

I would agree with you, but those aren't naruto's techs, they are the tailed beasts giving him their power to use them, so technically, rasengan and the wind variant is of naruto's power, which is what is being outlined here, sasuke and naruto's power, not the power they can use from others (like sasuke can use the tailed beasts at his whim in this fight).

Yeah, that's an old and tired debate around here....what constitutes as naruto's power(when he has been an example of shared power the entire time) and what constitutes as sasuke's power(when he has always tried to rely on only himself)?

I could go back and forth with you over this but it has been argued and re-argued too many times and everyone knows all the major talking points so I'll let it pass.

 

[SIR UZMAKIMADARA]

Madara and Obito's staffs didn't work differently than the Truth-Seeker Balls, neither does Naruto's rods. Its a different shape of the same thing.

I agree with you but I think that Chakra rods and Nonuboku sword functions different than TSBs

 

[Nismo]

Sasuke:
Jutsu
Amaterasu
Amaterasu: Flame Wrapping Fire
Animal Path (Manga only)
Binding Snake Glare Spell
Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi
Blaze Release: Susanoo Kagutsuchi
Blaze Release: Yasaka Magatama
Chidori
Chidori Current
Chidori Senbon
Chidori Sharp Spear
Cursed Seal of Heaven
Deva Path (Manga only)
Evil Releasing Method
Fire Release: Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique
Genjutsu: Rinnegan (Manga only)
Genjutsu: Sharingan
Hidden Shadow Snake Hands
Human Path (Manga only)
Iaidō
Instant
Kirin
Lion Combo
Manipulating Windmill Triple Blades
Naka Shrine Pass Technique
Orochimaru-Style Body Replacement Technique
Outer Path (Manga only)
Preta Path (Manga only)
Rinnegan Shifting Technique (Manga only)
Scorch Release: Halo Hurricane Jet Black Arrow Style Zero
Shadow Shuriken Technique
Shadow of the Dancing Leaf
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei (Manga only)
Six Paths Yin Power (Manga only)
Strong Fist
Summoning Technique (Hawk, Snake)
Susanoo
Susanoo: Captive Slash
Susanoo: Crush
Sword of Kusanagi: Chidori Katana

Naruto:
All Directions Shuriken
Big Ball Rasengan
Big Ball Rasenshuriken (Manga only)
Big Ball Spiralling Serial Zone Spheres
Chakra Transfer Technique
Clone Body Blow
Combination Transformation
Continuous Tailed Beast Balls
Corrosive Alkali Secretion (Manga only)
Frog Kata
Frog Strike
Harem Technique
Healing Power (Manga only)
Ink Spilling (Manga only)
Mini-Rasenshuriken
Multiple Shadow Clone Technique
Multiple Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken (Manga only)
Naruto Uzumaki Combo
Naruto Uzumaki Region Combo (Manga only)
Naruto Uzumaki Two Thousand Combo
Negative Emotions Sensing
New Sexy Technique
Nine-Tails Chakra Mode
One Thousand Years of Death
Planetary Rasengan
Rasengan
Sage Art: Big Ball Rasengan
Sage Art: Lava Release Rasenshuriken (Manga only)
Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan (Manga only)
Sage Art: Many Ultra-Big Ball Spiralling Serial Spheres
Sage Art: Super Tailed Beast Rasenshuriken (Manga only)
Sage Art: Ultra-Big Ball Rasengan
Sage Mode
Sage Technique: Spiralling Serial Spheres
Scorch Release: Halo Hurricane Jet Black Arrow Style Zero
Sensing
Sexy Reverse Harem Technique (Manga only)
Sexy Technique
Shadow Clone Technique
Shadow Shuriken Technique
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei (Manga only)
Six Paths Yang Power (Manga only)
Spiralling Absorption Sphere
Spiralling Strife Spheres
Steam Ninjutsu (Manga only)
Summoning Technique (Toad)
Summoning: Food Cart Destroyer Technique
Super Mini-Tailed Beast Ball
Tailed Beast Ball
Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken (Manga only)
Tailed Beast Chakra Arms
Tailed Beast Rasengan
Tailed Beast Shockwave
Torii Seal
Twin Rasengan
Typhoon Water Vortex Technique
Ultra-Big Ball Rasengan
Ultra-Many Spiralling Serial Spheres
Wind Release: Rasengan
Wind Release: Rasenshuriken
Wind Release: Repeated Rasenshuriken
Wind Release: Ultra-Big Ball Rasenshuriken

Naruto has more jutsu, but a few of them are useless in this fight like the sexy jutsu. Obviously they are not gonna use all these.

 

[Shinato]

I agree with you but I think that Chakra rods and Nonuboku sword functions different than TSBs

And you base this off? The sword may work differently as it was hinted to by Obito as being a blade fueled by the users will. Though the rods was never even commented on being different. They are the same as Hagoromo/Madara/Obito's staff. Nothing special, just the Truth-Seeker Balls in a different shape.

 

[Mr Hiru]

you're right bro.I'm just saying that currently naruto is just using BSM feats.
So far it looks like naruto will just use Kurama.May be Naruto will use other tailed beasts chakra.

We must see about that.

The thing is, I'm sure Naruto is currently using at least "one feature" of Rikudou Mode, just as Sasuke (Rinnegan's Teleportation).

You must be registered for see images

And there you go. Naruto used the TSB/Gudou Dama, which is a feature of Rikudou Mode.

The only way for anybody to prove that TSB is a feature of BSM, would be seeing BSM Naruto using them.

For the time being, as only RM Naruto has used this feature, it's safe to assume that TSB is a Rikudou Mode Feature.

 

[Shinato]

Sasuke:
Jutsu
Amaterasu
Amaterasu: Flame Wrapping Fire
Animal Path (Manga only)
Binding Snake Glare Spell
Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi
Blaze Release: Susanoo Kagutsuchi
Blaze Release: Yasaka Magatama
Chidori
Chidori Current
Chidori Senbon
Chidori Sharp Spear
Cursed Seal of Heaven
Deva Path (Manga only)
Evil Releasing Method
Fire Release: Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique
Genjutsu: Rinnegan (Manga only)
Genjutsu: Sharingan
Hidden Shadow Snake Hands
Human Path (Manga only)
Iaidō
Instant
Kirin
Lion Combo
Manipulating Windmill Triple Blades
Naka Shrine Pass Technique
Orochimaru-Style Body Replacement Technique
Outer Path (Manga only)
Preta Path (Manga only)
Rinnegan Shifting Technique (Manga only)
Scorch Release: Halo Hurricane Jet Black Arrow Style Zero
Shadow Shuriken Technique
Shadow of the Dancing Leaf
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei (Manga only)
Six Paths Yin Power (Manga only)
Strong Fist
Summoning Technique (Hawk, Snake)
Susanoo
Susanoo: Captive Slash
Susanoo: Crush
Sword of Kusanagi: Chidori Katana

Naruto:
All Directions Shuriken
Big Ball Rasengan
Big Ball Rasenshuriken (Manga only)
Big Ball Spiralling Serial Zone Spheres
Chakra Transfer Technique
Clone Body Blow
Combination Transformation
Continuous Tailed Beast Balls
Corrosive Alkali Secretion (Manga only)
Frog Kata
Frog Strike
Harem Technique
Healing Power (Manga only)
Ink Spilling (Manga only)
Mini-Rasenshuriken
Multiple Shadow Clone Technique
Multiple Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken (Manga only)
Naruto Uzumaki Combo
Naruto Uzumaki Region Combo (Manga only)
Naruto Uzumaki Two Thousand Combo
Negative Emotions Sensing
New Sexy Technique
Nine-Tails Chakra Mode
One Thousand Years of Death
Planetary Rasengan
Rasengan
Sage Art: Big Ball Rasengan
Sage Art: Lava Release Rasenshuriken (Manga only)
Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan (Manga only)
Sage Art: Many Ultra-Big Ball Spiralling Serial Spheres
Sage Art: Super Tailed Beast Rasenshuriken (Manga only)
Sage Art: Ultra-Big Ball Rasengan
Sage Mode
Sage Technique: Spiralling Serial Spheres
Scorch Release: Halo Hurricane Jet Black Arrow Style Zero
Sensing
Sexy Reverse Harem Technique (Manga only)
Sexy Technique
Shadow Clone Technique
Shadow Shuriken Technique
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei (Manga only)
Six Paths Yang Power (Manga only)
Spiralling Absorption Sphere
Spiralling Strife Spheres
Steam Ninjutsu (Manga only)
Summoning Technique (Toad)
Summoning: Food Cart Destroyer Technique
Super Mini-Tailed Beast Ball
Tailed Beast Ball
Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken (Manga only)
Tailed Beast Chakra Arms
Tailed Beast Rasengan
Tailed Beast Shockwave
Torii Seal
Twin Rasengan
Typhoon Water Vortex Technique
Ultra-Big Ball Rasengan
Ultra-Many Spiralling Serial Spheres
Wind Release: Rasengan
Wind Release: Rasenshuriken
Wind Release: Repeated Rasenshuriken
Wind Release: Ultra-Big Ball Rasenshuriken

Naruto has more jutsu, but a few of them are useless in this fight like the sexy jutsu. Obviously they are not gonna use all these.

Copying and pasting a list from a faulty wiki doesn't help the point. Most of these are variants that shouldn't even be counted as a second ability. (Like Barrage Rasengan) Summoing: Food Cart Destroyer is basically a basic summoning a specific location. That are two examples. As far as I know, some of these aren't even Jutsu, just a specific move with a fan-made name. (For both characters.) Also, as you mentioned, Naruto has some useless ones in combat.

 

[SIR UZMAKIMADARA]

And you base this off? The sword may work differently as it was hinted to by Obito as being a blade fueled by the users will. Though the rods was never even commented on being different. They are the same as Hagoromo/Madara/Obito's staff. Nothing special, just the Truth-Seeker Balls in a different shape.

You're right about that.

We must see about that.

The thing is, I'm sure Naruto is currently using at least "one feature" of Rikudou Mode, just as Sasuke (Rinnegan's Teleportation).

You must be registered for see images

And there you go. Naruto used the TSB/Gudou Dama, which is a feature of Rikudou Mode.

The only way for anybody to prove that TSB is a feature of BSM, would be seeing BSM Naruto using them.

For the time being, as only RM Naruto has used this feature, it's safe to asume that TSB is a Rikudou Mode Feature.

I didn't figure it out.You are right,bro

 

[jiraiya nindo]

We must see about that.

The thing is, I'm sure Naruto is currently using at least "one feature" of Rikudou Mode, just as Sasuke (Rinnegan's Teleportation).

You must be registered for see images

And there you go. Naruto used the TSB/Gudou Dama, which is a feature of Rikudou Mode.

The only way for anybody to prove that TSB is a feature of BSM, would be seeing BSM Naruto using them.

For the time being, as only RM Naruto has used this feature, it's safe to asume that TSB is a Rikudou Mode Feature.

Right. He can be in RM mode but only be using kyuubi chakra. He has shown the ability to use and differentiate between the multiple bijuu chakra he has stored within himself.

So, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that naruto does have access to another bijuu avatar similiar to ashura's.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[Mr Hiru]

I didn't figure it out.You are right,bro

I'm glad we could agree, man. That's why I respect you as a debater. You're reasonable.

Right. He can be in RM mode but only be using kyuubi chakra. He has shown the ability to use and differentiate between the multiple bijuu chakra he has stored within himself.

So, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that naruto does have access to another bijuu avatar similiar to ashura's.

That's all I'm saying.

Indeed. In fact, I already said that RM Naruto has access to BSM features, meaning that Naruto could use any Bijuu Avatar at this point. So, we agree in this point.