so the main star of the chapter is irrelevant?

[Aya San]

Ohhhhhh, then you should give the credit to Hashirama for even keeping Madara alive. And also, for providing the dna for Zetsu's creatioin. :heh:

Yeah, I give Hashi credit for providing ingredients to create Zetsu. Madara was surviving without Hashi dna so no credit on that.

 

[Kurama2012]

yeah i love how all this time zetsu was never actually on obitos side and zetsu is the overseer of akatsuki

 

[KingHashirama]

Yeah, I give Hashi credit for providing ingredients to create Zetsu. Madara was surviving without Hashi dna so no credit on that.

#needed the Hashi dna for his fatal wound

# needed it for old age

# Owes his life to the Gedo Mazo also.

 

[Aya San]

#needed the Hashi dna for his fatal wound

# needed it for old age

# Owes his life to the Gedo Mazo also.

He was gonna live even without any DNA

The other 2 points are irrelevant to what we're talking about

 

[KingHashirama]

He was gonna live even without any DNA

The other 2 points are irrelevant to what we're talking about

- Need proof

Not really they are quite relevant.

 

[Lightbringer]

Zetsu was part of Madara's plan....so Madara gets credit for creating him and commanding him to do what needed to be done.

But on a side note, I'm glad that they finally showed Black Zetsu's true purpose. Last I remember he was pinned down by Chojuro and thought it was the end of his character.

 

[KingHashirama]

Zetsu was part of Madara's plan....so Madara still gets credit for creating him and planning out the scenario.

But on a side note, I'm glad that they finally showed Black Zetsu's true purpose. Last I remember he was pinned down by Chojuro and thought it was the end of his character.

Naruto is part of Hashirama's plan.... So do you give Hashirama the credit of Naruto's doing?

 

[Lightbringer]

Naruto is part of Hashirama's plan.... So do you give Hashirama the credit of Naruto's doing?

Naruto wasn't creating by Hashirama to serve a certain purpose, he was merely following orders from his own free will to serve a common goal.

Zetsu is Madara's will; Madara created him solely for controlling Obito to use Rinne Tensei when the time came.....nothing else

Zetsu has no free will, he does what Madara tells him.

Madara also took control over Zetsu during the possession of Obito in order to cast Rinne Tensei on himself.....so yeah, I'd say Madara gets the credit.

Spoiler

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[KingHashirama]

Naruto wasn't creating by Hashirama to serve a certain purpose, he was merely following orders from his own free will to serve a common goal.

Zetsu is Madara's will; Madara created him solely for controlling Obito to use Rinne Tensei when the time came.....nothing else

Zetsu has no free will, he does what Madara tells him.

Madara also took control over Zetsu during the possession of Obito in order to cast Rinne Tensei on himself.....so yeah, I'd say Madara gets the credit.

- Hashirama's goal/plan = shinobi world will lead itself to peace by mutual understanding and the village system. Naruto automatically became part of that plan.

- Zetsu is Madara's will yes.. however he has the choice to either follow it or not. And he has done many things that Madara didn't tell him to do.

- Who told you Madara took over, when it was black zetsu himself who did the rinne tensei... rofl.

 

[Multiply]

He was gonna live even without any DNA

The other 2 points are irrelevant to what we're talking about

He was mortally wounded though... Hashirama's DNA is what saved him. The only problem is it didn't unlock the rinnegan until he was stuck to the mazou .

 

[Awkward Linguist]

Zetsu is like madara's slave, just as Obito was, only difference is one is a pedo traitor.

 

[Lightbringer]

- Hashirama's goal/plan = shinobi world will lead itself to peace by mutual understanding and the village system. Naruto automatically became part of that plan.

- Zetsu is Madara's will yes.. however he has the choice to either follow it or not. And he has done many things that Madara didn't tell him to do.

- Who told you Madara took over, when it was black zetsu himself who did the rinne tensei... rofl.

@Bold

can you give me proof? Zetsu even apologized to Obito saying that his existence was for that purpose. How can Madara's will deny Madara's will? That just doesn't make sense.

Naruto still has free will and control over his actions. Sasuke was born into the system, but chose his own way.....being born under the system doesn't automatically make you anything. Hashirama didn't foretell Madara reviving himself and planned a whole scenario with Naruto in it.



and Madara said "Let's Switch" with Black Zetsu. Black Zetsu can't cast jutsu.

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We saw the same thing when he tried it the first time, his will was enveloping Obito while Madara was casting Rinne Tensei on himself through Obito.

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[KingHashirama]

@Bold

can you give me proof? Zetsu even apologized to Obito saying that his existence was for that purpose. How can Madara's will deny Madara's will? That just doesn't make sense.

Naruto still has free will and control over his actions. Sasuke was born into the system, but chose his own way.....being born under the system doesn't automatically make you anything. Hashirama didn't foretell Madara reviving himself and planned a whole scenario with Naruto in it.



and Madara said 'Let's Switch" with Black Zetsu. Black Zetsu can't cast jutsu. We saw the same thing when he tried it the first time, his will was enveloping Obito while Madara was casting Rinne Tensei on himself through Obito.

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Thank you for providing the manga scans to show the difference between the last time and this time. Notice unlike the last time where there was no black zetsu appearing , Madara did the hand seals. This time Black Zetsu himself appeared and provided the right black rod that could control Obito's will so Madara can use the jutsu without the hand seals.Obito had already made the hand seals for. So thank you for that. So I admit i was wrong on that part, i didn't see the black rod until now.

- Actually it does make Naruto part of the plan. Having free will doesn't = you ain't part of the plan. It simply depends on the plan, and how strict it is. Hashirama's plan is not a strict one but relies on the understanding of the shinobi and that in the future it will be accomplished through the village system. Madara didn't forsee Hashirama being revived and putting him down.. and Obito turning on him.. So what is the point here?

Hell take out Obito and the Akatsuki members .. Madara's plan is a failure.. Not only that it had already failed before.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

I was happy to see him again...I hate Zetsu but it was just nice to see a face I recognised.

Man I think i'd even welcome Itachi or Kisame back at this point.

 

[Lightbringer]

Thank you for providing the manga scans to show the difference between the last time and this time. Notice unlike the last time where there was no black zetsu appearing , Madara did the hand seals. This time Black Zetsu himself appeared and provided the right black rod that could control Obito's will so Madara can use the jutsu without the hand seals.Obito had already made the hand seals for. So thank you for that. So I admit i was wrong on that part, i didn't see the black rod until now.

- Actually it does make Naruto part of the plan. Having free will doesn't = you ain't part of the plan. It simply depends on the plan, and how strict it is. Hashirama's plan is not a strict one but relies on the understanding of the shinobi and that in the future it will be accomplished through the village system. Madara didn't forsee Hashirama being revived and putting him down.. and Obito turning on him.. So what is the point here?

Hell take out Obito and the Akatsuki members .. Madara's plan is a failure.. Not only that it had already failed before.

Madara said "time for the transfer" ......obviously he took control over the Zetsu which also subsequently controlled Obito's actions

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@bold
actually yeah, Madara did see Obito turning on him.......which is why he made the black zetsu lol

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also Madara losing the battle to Hashirama doesn't mean his plan failed. He obtained the rinnegan and the means to revive the juubi from his loss and also a way to create zetsu.....so not really a failure there.

and obviously no plan can be made without subjects, so I don't see why you're even bringing the akatsuki in on this. It's called being a mastermind.