So Kishi wasn't trolling back then!!

[Baka Sennin]

I see people still haven't got how edo tensei works

in a nutshell, you're revived as you were, with your chakra levels intact. so say nagato would have a chakra level of 200, and he can use that as much as he want without a risk of dying from chakra exhaustion. so he can spam, but he can't use a jutsu which requires 250 chakra.

how do I know this? there are two examples, one is muu, and the other is the trollkage. both when split were severly limited, which means their chakra levels were also split. half infinity is still infinity, so the assumption that you can just do a massive jutsu which would have killed you while alive is way off. also if edo tensei have unlimited chakra then it follows they can scale their jutsu in an unlimited fashion as well. yet we saw clearly that it's not the case, the edos just afforded to be more carefree with their use of jutsu without a care for chakra expenditure.

on the other hand, you're able to spam techniques without a care for the chakra cost, like madara. (who also had his chakra levels boosted with the superior hashirama cells).

now, tobirama stated that the four edos were called back at CLOSE to their full power, unlike Madara who was brought back beyond his prime. so we can flush the theory that minato wouldnt have been able to teleport that tbb down the toilet.

secondly, we can look at the obito fight and it's clear as crystal that when teleporting the tbb minato showed absolutely no signs of fatigue using the barrier. he got wasted when he used ftg on the kyuubi, so it's reasonable to infer that scaling the mass teleported using ftg increases its chakra cost drastically, given that minato was able to spam ftg on himself. there is however absolutely no proof that ftg barrier plays by the same rules, as it teleported a huge object easily unlike ftg. and referring back to point no1, minato should have been able to do this juubi tbb feat while alive. It's of course reasonable to think that it would have cost him a fair bit of stamina. be that as it may, it's a brilliant feat which probably no one else could have matched. the hachibi's tbbs were like a marble next to a baseball, so that rules out hashirama, madara,naruto and nagato, and also kamui.

also, Itachi benefitted much more from edo tensei than minato could ever have. no pain from using the ms, no risk of blindness, and he can spam a high chakra cost technique without repercussions. so in short, if we're not going to use two weights two measures it's pointless to discuss things with you.

 

[Bogard]

I see people still haven't got how edo tensei works

in a nutshell, you're revived as you were, with your chakra levels intact. so say nagato would have a chakra level of 200, and he can use that as much as he want without a risk of dying from chakra exhaustion. so he can spam, but he can't use a jutsu which requires 250 chakra.

how do I know this? there are two examples, one is muu, and the other is the trollkage. both when split were severly limited, which means their chakra levels were also split. half infinity is still infinity, so the assumption that you can just do a massive jutsu which would have killed you while alive is way off. also if edo tensei have unlimited chakra then it follows they can scale their jutsu in an unlimited fashion as well. yet we saw clearly that it's not the case, the edos just afforded to be more carefree with their use of jutsu without a care for chakra expenditure.

on the other hand, you're able to spam techniques without a care for the chakra cost, like madara. (who also had his chakra levels boosted with the superior hashirama cells).

now, tobirama stated that the four edos were called back at CLOSE to their full power, unlike Madara who was brought back beyond his prime. so we can flush the theory that minato wouldnt have been able to teleport that tbb down the toilet.

secondly, we can look at the obito fight and it's clear as crystal that when teleporting the tbb minato showed absolutely no signs of fatigue using the barrier. he got wasted when he used ftg on the kyuubi, so it's reasonable to infer that scaling the mass teleported using ftg increases its chakra cost drastically, given that minato was able to spam ftg on himself. there is however absolutely no proof that ftg barrier plays by the same rules, as it teleported a huge object easily unlike ftg. and referring back to point no1, minato should have been able to do this juubi tbb feat while alive. It's of course reasonable to think that it would have cost him a fair bit of stamina. be that as it may, it's a brilliant feat which probably no one else could have matched. the hachibi's tbbs were like a marble next to a baseball, so that rules out hashirama, madara,naruto and nagato, and also kamui.

also, Itachi benefitted much more from edo tensei than minato could ever have. no pain from using the ms, no risk of blindness, and he can spam a high chakra cost technique without repercussions. so in short, if we're not going to use two weights two measures it's pointless to discuss things with you.

Finally someone who read the manga correctly. + rep sir

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Summoning and S/T n barrier use same mechanic for different means.
In common:
One must have enough chakra for the summon, S/T of desired size.
One must be able to build up needed amount of chakra and must do it fast enough.

This would make sense if it weren't for the fact that FTGing Kurama exhausted him while he teleported a TBB with ease. Could it bee that chakra is easier to teleport due to not being a physical object?

 

[AlphaScythian]

This would make sense if it weren't for the fact that FTGing Kurama exhausted him while he teleported a TBB with ease. Could it bee that chakra is easier to teleport due to not being a physical object?

Chakra is physical. Kurama's TBB<<<<<<<<<<<<Kurama<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<juubi TBB<Juubi.
This roughly accurate equation is the answer for ur claims
Even if live minato could replicate this feat, he wouldn't be able to do anything else.

 

[sanninuto]

well, yeah i guess everything is planned from the start

 

[Powermill]

If you pizza when you should French Fri you going to have a bad time.

 

[Blaze Release]

Yeah, I get where he's coming from, but I don't think he's thinking this all the way through.

I didn't want to get into this, merely trying to get people to gain an understanding of what owarij is saying.
As i said it reminds me of the kakashi/hachibi scenario and in the end i giggled when i had the last laugh. You cannot start raining down insults or uploading all sorts of cream when you never know what the next chapters have to say. He might have the last laugh.

Also kamui, is an s/t barrier technique which like any other jikkuikin jutsu depends on how much chakra and size you can teleport. It operates in a similar fashion to minato's barrier, the main difference being one doesn't require tattoo seals.

Regardless of the form if it falls under space time, size always comes into the equation

Main reason for not disapproving the op because there is a sense of hypocrisy on my part and not caring for the manga like i used to

This would make sense if it weren't for the fact that FTGing Kurama exhausted him while he teleported a TBB with ease. Could it bee that chakra is easier to teleport due to not being a physical object?

The bijuu are chakra themselves.

 

[ajpn920]

Why I would say that whoever said that Minato teleporting juubi's TBB is because he is an EDO is just stupid. Based on what Minato showed us, teleporting something as BIGas Kurama depends on his chakra. Now, he is absolutely referring to the WEIGHT.

If chakra is added to a person's weight then when everyone uses ninjutsu and almost drained his/her chakra, does it mean that his/her weight goes down? If someone has 100% chakra at the start of the day, does it mean that when he uses 50% of his chakra, his/her weight dropped 50% less?

Example:

1. Choji is definitely bigger than Naruto but there is not doubt that Naruto has more chakra than choji. If Minato's teleportation is based on someone's weight then it means that he will use more chakra teleporting choji than teleporting Naruto.

2. Minato separated YANG chakra and was sealed in Naruto. That was 50% of Kurama's chakra, right? After the YANG chakra is being sealed, does the chakra been added to Naruto's weight?

Minato did not show any sign of fatigue when teleporting TBB through his barrier. It is not the same when he WILL teleport something which has WEIGHT because we can never weigh chakra. Besides, EDO Tensei does not boosts ones chakra to infinite level. It's just that their chakra will regenerate after being consumed because they can't die.

 

[Owarij]

Minato did not show any sign of fatigue when teleporting TBB through his barrier. It is not the same when he WILL teleport something which has WEIGHT because we can never weigh chakra

...

lol...chakra doesn't have weight.. sigh

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Read those 3 scans, and you'll realize who's stupid,
little help- take note of the ground starting to crack below kyuubi as it makes the tbb, esp when it swallows it.. Orochimaru makes note that with that much weight, it won't be able to move

 

[ajpn920]

...

lol...chakra doesn't have weight.. sigh

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Read those 3 scans, and you'll realize who's stupid,
little help- take note of the ground starting to crack below kyuubi as it makes the tbb, esp when it swallows it.. Orochimaru makes note that with that much weight, it won't be able to move

LOL. Common sense man if you have. Chakra density means weight to you?

Naruto definitely has large chakra supply. Does it mean that he weighs more that Choji or jirubo (whatever that name is in the sound 4)?

You are referring to weight density if that's the case but it is not the same as WEIGHT physically. Who's stupid again? If you can answer why Naruto with 50% of Kurama's chakra weighs lower that those FAT shinobi's then I would say you are right, but until you can't, you are just speculating

Density is mass per unit of volume if you can remember where Weight = MG (Mass * acceleration of gravity).

You guys need to stop and Ajpn it does.

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Anyway ill outta here. Gotta go somewhere else

There's what we call weight density Blaze. If chakra does really have WEIGHT physically then why it was not added to Naruto's WEIGHT? Can you answer this?

 

[shelke]

Why I would say that whoever said that Minato teleporting juubi's TBB is because he is an EDO is just stupid. Based on what Minato showed us, teleporting something as BIGas Kurama depends on his chakra. Now, he is absolutely referring to the WEIGHT.

If chakra is added to a person's weight then when everyone uses ninjutsu and almost drained his/her chakra, does it mean that his/her weight goes down? If someone has 100% chakra at the start of the day, does it mean that when he uses 50% of his chakra, his/her weight dropped 50% less?

Example:

1. Choji is definitely bigger than Naruto but there is not doubt that Naruto has more chakra than choji. If Minato's teleportation is based on someone's weight then it means that he will use more chakra teleporting choji than teleporting Naruto.

2. Minato separated YANG chakra and was sealed in Naruto. That was 50% of Kurama's chakra, right? After the YANG chakra is being sealed, does the chakra been added to Naruto's weight?

Minato did not show any sign of fatigue when teleporting TBB through his barrier. It is not the same when he WILL teleport something which has WEIGHT because we can never weigh chakra. Besides, EDO Tensei does not boosts ones chakra to infinite level. It's just that their chakra will regenerate after being consumed because they can't die.

I see. So that is why when Naruto in KCM mode tried to form Rasangan, he felt the immense weight of Bijuu chakra?

 

[Owarij]

Sigh, GG, 3 scans posted with tbb causing the users of it to grow heavier and start sinking beneath its weight, and he still argues

He has no idea what so ever what's the difference between Weight and density.. wouldn't even google to find out.. instead spews nonsense..

Blaze won't convince you with scans, I definitely cannot, and god knows I know you're not going to educate yourself



Guess you need to go to narutopedia to learn it yourself

 

[ajpn920]

I see. So that is why when Naruto in KCM mode tried to form Rasangan, he felt the immense weight of Bijuu chakra?

Read all my post and OWARIJ's own scan.

Here's an example that everybody can try.

1. Hold a dumbell with 30 KG weight then measure your weight. See if there is a change in your weight if you are not holding the dumbell. THAT WHAT WEIGHT IS.

Sigh, GG, 3 scans posted with tbb causing the users of it to grow heavier and start sinking beneath its weight, and he still argues

He has no idea what so ever what's the difference between Weight and density.. wouldn't even google to find out.. instead spews nonsense..

Blaze won't convince you with scans, I definitely cannot, and god knows I know you're not going to educate yourself



Guess you need to go to narutopedia to learn it yourself

Okay Bright boy. Is chakra the same as 30 kg dumbell for example? IF you are holding that dumbell it will surely increase your weight. You can try that then talk to me if the result is different. Holding the 30 kg dumbell will add 30 kg to your WEIGHT. Now, NAruto which has 50% of Kurama's chakra did not CHANGE his weight. Are they the same? Let's see who's talking nonsense.

A dumbell sure has WEIGHT which if you hold, will definitely add to your WEIGHT. Chakra can't add one's WEIGHT. Are they still the same? I've given an example here which everyone knows it's true while on the other hand you are talking like shit.

 

[Memoria]

People actually think Jūbi's Bijūdama has more chakra than complete Kyuubi? I need to know the shit they're smoking.
On a side note, Kyūbi did a Bijūdama several times his size with almost no chakra left. Kinda makes you wonder how he did it. Does that mean that Bijūdama had more chakra than the Kyūbi himself? since it was clearly several times bigger...
Nice logic indeed. Nice logic.

 

[shelke]

Read all my post and OWARIJ's own scan.

Here's an example that everybody can try.

1. Hold a dumbell with 30 KG weight then measure your weight. See if there is a change in your weight if you are not holding the dumbell. THAT WHAT WEIGHT IS.

Okay Bright boy. Is chakra the same as 30 kg dumbell for example? IF you are holding that dumbell it will surely increase your weight. You can try that then talk to me if the result is different. Holding the 30 kg dumbell will add 30 kg to your WEIGHT. Now, NAruto which has 50% of Kurama's chakra did not CHANGE his weight. Are they the same?

Considering Naruto felt immense heaviness from the chakra, which would mean it does have weight. Chakra once put out of the body and molded for or into a technique acts in a physical manner. For example: PS swords destroying mountains, Naruto's FRS creating a crater, Sasuke blowing apart half the hall with Chidori.

Can they accomplish so when it lays latent inside their bodies? No they cannot. Hence this weight and density debate holds no merit here when Chakra's behaviour is entirely different in latent and technique form. In fact, it's not even remotely related.

 

[ajpn920]

Considering Naruto felt immense heaviness from the chakra, which would mean it does have weight. Chakra once put out of the body and molded for or into a technique acts in a physical manner. For example: PS swords destroying mountains, Naruto's FRS creating a crater, Sasuke blowing apart half the hall with Chidori.

Can they accomplish so when it lays latent inside their bodies? No they cannot. Hence this weight and density debate is holds no merit here when Chakra behaves different in latent and technique form.

It's not the case. I'll give an example again which can give an answer to that.

1. My body gets numb. It FEELS HEAVY though i'm not holding something.

See this? You can feel something heavy eventhough your are not holding something with weight. In our argument, we are discussing about WEIGHT itself that's why I compare a 30kg dumbell to a chakra. Everybody knows that when we hold something with weight, that weight will add up to our own weight. THIS IS FACT. Even grade 1 student knows this.

EDIT: I'm waiting for the bright boy OWARIJ. Can you tell the difference between my examples and can you answer this question?

1. If chakra has weight the same as material weights like dumbells, why it was not added to Naruto's weight. Check databook and you can see their WEIGHTS. Naruto has 60 kg while choji has 87 kg but we all know that Naruto has 50% of Kuramas CHAKRA. IF that chakra has weight, why Choji is heavier than Naruto?

Simple question. Answer this first before talking shit with no sense. Got it?

 

[Owarij]

Okay Bright boy. Is chakra the same as 30 kg dumbell for example? IF you are holding that dumbell it will surely increase your weight. You can try that then talk to me if the result is different. Holding the 30 kg dumbell will add 30 kg to your WEIGHT. Now, NAruto which has 50% of Kurama's chakra did not CHANGE his weight. Are they the same? Let's see who's talking nonsense.

A dumbell sure has WEIGHT which if you hold, will definitely add to your WEIGHT. Chakra can't add one's WEIGHT. Are they still the same? I've given an example here which everyone knows it's true while on the other hand you are talking like shit.

We are talking about condensed chakra here, not the pure combination of physical and mental energy.. when the bijuu's condense and form the chakra in the specific ratio in the manga, it gains mass, a heavy mass.. mass that made kyuubi naruto unable to move once he ate it.. Mass density is MASS PER UNIT.. . and worked out as MASS divided by Volume... the higher something's density, the higher its mass per volume...

Orochimaru commented that the chakra was high density.. meaning Per volume .. the chakra was HEAVIER than average Normal chakra...

Being high density doesn't equate to extreme mass... Air on lower altitudes tend to have high density, mostly why it sinks to the bottom, while hot air rises... it simply means it has a high concentration of particles or mass in a small area...
that alone, esp when considering the air example.. will NOT make the ground sink beneath you.... The tbb had extreme PHYSICAL mass.... which is what cause the ground to break beneath it...

 

[shelke]

It's not the case. I'll give an example again which can give an answer to that.

1. My body gets numb. It FEELS HEAVY though i'm not holding something.

See this? You can feel something heavy eventhough your are not holding something with weight. In our argument, we are discussing about WEIGHT itself that's why I compare a 30kg dumbell to a chakra. Everybody knows that when we hold something with weight, that weight will add up to our own weight. THIS IS FACT. Even grade 1 student knows this.

I have studied advanced weight mechanics in aviation, don't throw around things as if the other person is a complete jackass. This isn't real world, first point. I'll try to delineate this in a simple form:

What is weight? It's nothing but a force on an object due to gravity. Does chakra have a mass? Given by the scans through out the manga, it seems to have it as it's spiritual matter that is kneaded outside the body to form techniques that carry out damage on physical or tangible level. Tailed Beasts: it's compressed or uncompressed to throw a properly made BD or a Flash Dhama.

How the mass would remain constant without gravity influence, and the force of gravity upon it, will determine its weight. Since chakra itself is an immense spiritual mass, when it's brought outside the body it would be subject to gravity. Inside the body, it simply flows through the individual and is latent, not subject to laws of physics so let's not even go there as it's just plain silly that you are applying physics on chakra of all the things. Really?

Your example is completely out of the topic, as Naruto felt immense weight on his hand due to the mass of chakra he was trying to compress with a proper ratio. Kurama is shown to spit out large mass of chakra and form the TBB. Going by your own logic, why was Minato nearly out of chakra after teleporting a TBB and then Kurama? It's obvious that TBB is subject to weight as it's a large mass of chakra.

Anyhow, I don't want to continue on with this silly debate. Keep things from Naruto till Naruto.

 

[KingHashirama]

Minato doesn't need to be a Edo to teleport it... .

 

[ajpn920]

We are talking about condensed chakra here, not the pure combination of physical and mental energy.. when the bijuu's condense and form the chakra in the specific ratio in the manga, it gains mass, a heavy mass.. mass that made kyuubi naruto unable to move once he ate it.. Mass density is MASS PER UNIT.. . and worked out as MASS divided by Volume... the higher something's density, the higher its mass per volume...

Orochimaru commented that the chakra was high density.. meaning Per volume .. the chakra was HEAVIER than average Normal chakra...

Being high density doesn't equate to extreme mass... Air on lower altitudes tend to have high density, mostly why it sinks to the bottom, while hot air rises... it simply means it has a high concentration of particles or mass in a small area...
that alone, esp when considering the air example.. will NOT make the ground sink beneath you.... The tbb had extreme PHYSICAL mass.... which is what cause the ground to break beneath it...

Again you are talking about MASS DENSITY which is not WEIGHT. Even if we are talking about MASS itself, they are not the same.

Obviously, we use weight to determine how heavy the size of an object but the truth is if we are using KG for example then we are talking about mass, right? This is misused and misunderstood by many. Since I believe not everyone knows the difference between these two terms then i'd be glad to share this.

Mass is actually a measure of the amount of material in an object (The weight that everyone is reffering to like sizes) while if we talk about WEIGHT (the real definition) it has gravitational force acting on the body mass. This is the reason why we have KG (kilogram) as an example. Since Minato talked about teleportation depends on how BIG the object is then it means that he is reffering to the size or amount of material of an object meaning MASS.

You are referring to the MASS DENSITY which is does not equate to how big or small the material is that's why there is no way for you to answer why Naruto's MASS (weight for others) is lower than Choji's mass.

My example shows that when we hold something with MASS (weight for others) then it will add up to our own mass. Let's just use weight to avoid confusion.

1. If my weight is 100kg and i'm holding 30 kg dumbell then my total weight would be 130. 130 kg determines how heavy I am, right?

2. If chakra has weight/mass, then why it was not added to Naruto's weight and why is Choji heavier than Naruto when we all know that naruto has 50% of Kurama's chakra.

Simple question which can be answered by common sense alone. My example about the 30 kg dumbell and the difference between Naruto and Choji's weight killed whatever claims you have because that example is TRUE while you are just talking nonsense fooling everyone with your terms.

I have studied advanced weight mechanics in aviation, don't throw around things as if the other person is a complete jackass. This isn't real world, first point. I'll try to delineate this in a simple form:

What is weight? It's nothing but a force on an object due to gravity. Does chakra have a mass? Given by the scans through out the manga, it seems to have it as it's spiritual matter that is kneaded outside the body to form techniques that carry out damage on physical or tangible level. Tailed Beasts: it's compressed or uncompressed to throw a properly made BD or a Flash Dhama.

How the mass would remain constant without gravity influence, and the force of gravity upon it, will determine its weight. Since chakra itself is an immense spiritual mass, when it's brought outside the body it would be subject to gravity. Inside the body, it simply flows through the individual and is latent, not subject to laws of physics so let's not even go there as it's just plain silly that you are applying physics on chakra of all the things. Really?

Your example is completely out of the topic, as Naruto felt immense weight on his hand due to the mass of chakra he was trying to compress with a proper ratio. Kurama is shown to spit out large mass of chakra and form the TBB. Going by your own logic, why was Minato nearly out of chakra after teleporting a TBB and then Kurama? It's obvious that TBB is subject to weight as it's a large mass of chakra.

Anyhow, I don't want to continue on with this silly debate. Keep things from Naruto till Naruto.

Sorry. I have posted late but we all know that we are talking about how big an object is means we are referring aout MASS. In most case, weight is used by many which I've said is misused or misunderstood.

Saying that Mianto teleported juubi's TBB because he is an EDO is purely non sense because we all know that he is referring to how big an object is when he used teleporatation but it does not mean we can equate chakra to MASS of an object because it can be refuted easily. My example killed that speculation.

If one has 100% chakra then he can use that 100% chakra without changing his actual MASS. That 100% chakra can't add to what his MASS is.