[VS] Snake Gang Versus the Six Paths of Pain

[blazekev90]

Since the effect CST would have on Orochimaru would be similar yet far less effective to

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batting a mosquito with a baseball bat; I doubt it. ​

With the radius CST takes up, that wouldn't work. The very ground he would be materializing into would be granulated. ​

Nagato was already above the village by the time Tsunade got to where Konan was standing and added to that none of the paths were affected by the blast which obviously says it was more or less a 'safe zone' from the direct impact of the force. That entire thing about Manda borrowing nearly instantaneously is a myth and nothing more than the deception of time and event lapses between panels.

-> Gamabunta and Jiraya clearly stated what they were about to do.
-> Manda heard and was well aware as he is not only intelligent but cognizant of their jutsu
-> By the time Gamabunta was spewing oil Mandara was already making way beneath ground.
-> By the time Jiraiya supplied the flame, Manda had made his way underground.
-> Neither Jiraiya nor Gamabunta could see since the Flame would be blocking their vision.

Deva will be using the attack towards the opponents and this is in no way harmful to the other paths as they would all be behind the force and it's area of effect. @Bold: Agreed however there are 5 other paths. ​

Konan was outside the village, along with the defeated paths. Of course she was in the safe zone, none were near the blast. Tsuande pursed Deva the moment he took flight, the proximity between them wasn't as long as you're protraying it to be.

Manda's reaction speed a myth?! Manga scans disagree, especially when we're considering the time lapse in this scenario. Again, Tsuande's summoning shielded nearly an entire village and herself without prior knowledge of CST, meaning this action occurred during/after CST was used. Are you telling me this was done instantly? Faster than Manda simply appearing, gathering allies and moving?! He's such feats against Deidara. You're underestimating this for the sack of your argument Waltz.

Deva would use his attack towards his opponents? As Nagato did against Bee and Naruto? Because if we're judging this based off your original post, they're not avoiding anything.

 

[Braiyan]

Shinra Tensei can't be sensed or anticipated with Dojutsu, as was shown explicitly when it was used on Kakashi multiple times, Hinata, SM Naruto, KCM Naruto and a village full of Hyugas and sensors. Katsuyu protected those she could so quickly because Tsunade already had her on "

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" before CST even became a factor. Therefore it's ridiculous to imply that anyone on team 1's side is going to survive a jutsu they have near zero warning for. They are going to see all the Path bodies drop besides Deva, wonder what's going on, and then suddenly they're flying through every building in Amegakure before being smeared like paint on a wall.

Neither was Tsunade and her Anbu team at the epicenter of the blast used on Konoha. She's

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where Naruto and Deva were, which means they didn't take anywhere near the brunt of the jutsu, just the aftereffect of all the buildings and rubble being thrown out of the way while the crater was being made.

Pain uses CST here and everyone on team 1 dies except maybe Oro (which is also unlikely seeing that he was going to die to

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, which is much weaker than CST). There will be no hiding like a mole, no summoning Manda and hiding in his mouth, no Mayfly, or Oral Rebirth from 20 metres, as they have no way of anticipating CST from a couple Path bodies dropping to the floor, and all of those actions take too much time before they're sent flying.

 

[blazekev90]

Shinra Tensei can't be sensed or anticipated with Dojutsu, as was shown explicitly when it was used on Kakashi multiple times, Hinata, SM Naruto, KCM Naruto and a village full of Hyugas and sensors. Katsuyu protected those she could so quickly because Tsunade already had her on "

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" before CST even became a factor. Therefore it's ridiculous to imply that anyone on team 1's side is going to survive a jutsu they have near zero warning for. They are going to see all the Path bodies drop besides Deva, wonder what's going on, and then suddenly they're flying through every building in Amegakure before being smeared like paint on a wall.

Neither was Tsunade and her Anbu team at the epicenter of the blast used on Konoha. She's

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where Naruto and Deva were, which means they didn't take anywhere near the brunt of the jutsu, just the aftereffect of all the buildings and rubble being thrown out of the way while the crater was being made.

Pain uses CST here and everyone on team 1 dies except maybe Oro (which is also unlikely seeing that he was going to die to

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, which is much weaker than CST). There will be no hiding like a mole, no summoning Manda and hiding in his mouth, no Mayfly, or Oral Rebirth from 20 metres, as they have no way of anticipating CST from a couple Path bodies dropping to the floor, and all of those actions take too much time before they're sent flying.

I hope this wasn't directed towards me...

 

[Braiyan]

I hope this wasn't directed towards me...

It was directed at anyone making the argument that hiding like a mole/Mayfly/hiding in Manda's mouth was a viable defense against CST, or that Oro and co. will survive just because Tsunade did.

 

[blazekev90]

It was directed at anyone making the argument that hiding like a mole/Mayfly/hiding in Manda's mouth was a viable defense against CST, or that Oro and co. will survive just because Tsunade did.

lol @ bold. I won't waste my time entertaining you.

 

[Unorthodox]

Sanke gang rape every snake in the series huh?

Manda 2 has a field day until CST comes out which it would probably kill it but leave the rest of the snake gang in its mouth

Kimmimaro negs - Preta and the tongue grabbing path.

Sasuke - Blitz the rest

Orochimaru - can tangle with deva as he's the most durable

Manda 2, Manda 1, Aoda, Negs rinnegan summonings Team snake med diff.

 

[TheUnbiasedOne]

@everyone saying CST one shots, remember, it comes from the user, and there are four Rashomon Gates and a Manda to protect from the blast.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

I hope this wasn't directed towards me...

You can't sneak diss with such aggression.

 

[Braiyan]

@everyone saying CST one shots, remember, it comes from the user, and there are four Rashomon Gates and a Manda to protect from the blast.

Funny, I didn't know Orochimaru was a mind reader.

 

[Curse Mark]

Funny, I didn't know Orochimaru was a mind reader.

OP never stated knowledge.

 

[TheUnbiasedOne]

Funny, I didn't know Orochimaru was a mind reader.

Even with Zero Knowledge, Sasuke can see the chakra buildup and warn people. Orochimaru also already knows what the Rinnegan jutsu are.

 

[Braiyan]

OP never stated knowledge.

I meant in the context that Oro would anticipate CST to the point that he summons Rashomon before he gets hit by it.

Even with Zero Knowledge, Sasuke can see the chakra buildup and warn people.

No, he can't. Kakashi failed to see a buildup for ST for all the times he was hit by it. So did Hinata. So did SM Naruto. Sasuke gets hit like everyone else.
Orochimaru may know what the Rinnegan jutsu are, but that doesn't help him in anticipating when CST is cast.

 

[TheUnbiasedOne]

I meant in the context that Oro would anticipate CST to the point that he summons Rashomon before he gets hit by it.



No, he can't. Kakashi failed to see a buildup for ST for all the times he was hit by it. So did Hinata. So did SM Naruto. Sasuke gets hit like everyone else.
Orochimaru may know what the Rinnegan jutsu are, but that doesn't help him in anticipating when CST is cast.

Those were all way smaller and required less chakra buildup. Even if they saw those, they couldn't have reacted. It was stated that the technique requires and enormous amount of chakra, one that would be seen by the Sharingan. From there, they all would brace themselves. And unless you can also convince me that CST works substantially faster than Deidara's C0, you still cannot combat why Orochimaru could not summon the gates without warning, when Sasuke summoned Manda, used a Genjutsu, and Jumped in it's mouth before he was hit with a blast that almost instantly expanded 10km.

And Summons are nigh instant, evident by how Sasuke summoned Manda before he got hit with Deidara's bomb.

 

[Braiyan]

Those were all way smaller and required less chakra buildup. Even if they saw those, they couldn't have reacted.

The bolded just serves to prove my point.

It was stated that the technique requires and enormous amount of chakra, one that would be seen by the Sharingan.

You have yet to prove the bold. Kakashi failed, again and again, and again to see the buildup for any level of Shinra Tensei used against him. Despite him about to use CST, no Hyuga or sensor was able to detect him up in the sky.

From there, they all would brace themselves. And unless you can also convince me that CST works substantially faster than Deidara's C0,

Deidara's C0:
1.

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2.

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3.

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4.

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5.

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6.

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7.

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8.

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9.

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Pain's CST:
1.

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2.

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I would say Pain's CST is much, much faster than C0.

you still cannot combat why Orochimaru could not summon the gates without warning, when Sasuke summoned Manda, used a Genjutsu, and Jumped in it's mouth before he was hit with a blast that almost instantly expanded 10km.

And Summons are nigh instant, evident by how Sasuke summoned Manda before he got hit with Deidara's bomb.

Sasuke had the advantage of knowing that Deidara was going to blow himself up thanks to him stating he was going to blow himself up a couple dozen times. He doesn't have that advantage here. Orochimaru also has no reason to summon the Rashomon without a prior warning. And we know for sure he doesn't do that quickly.

Even if I grant that Sasuke somehow gets Manda summoned again in time (despite having no prior warning besides the Path bodies dropping), all he has accomplished is having a boss summon to be thrown along with everyone else through every building in Amegakure, making it even likelier for one of them to be crushed by Manda's sheer girth powered by CST's force.

 

[TheUnbiasedOne]

The bolded just serves to prove my point.



You have yet to prove the bold. Kakashi failed, again and again, and again to see the buildup for any level of Shinra Tensei used against him. Despite him about to use CST, no Hyuga or sensor was able to detect him up in the sky.



Deidara's C0:
1.

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2.

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3.

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4.

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5.

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6.

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7.

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8.

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9.

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Pain's CST:
1.

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2.

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I would say Pain's CST is much, much faster than C0.



Sasuke had the advantage of knowing that Deidara was going to blow himself up thanks to him stating he was going to blow himself up a couple dozen times. He doesn't have that advantage here. Orochimaru also has no reason to summon the Rashomon without a prior warning. And we know for sure he doesn't do that quickly.

Even if I grant that Sasuke somehow gets Manda summoned again in time (despite having no prior warning besides the Path bodies dropping), all he has accomplished is having a boss summon to be thrown along with everyone else through every building in Amegakure, making it even likelier for one of them to be crushed by Manda's sheer girth powered by CST's force.

No one in Konoha has as much knowledge on Rinnegan as Orochimaru. They would not have formulated a counter, not were they combating Deva, Tsunade was.
You were missing the point.
Less Buildup=Less Release=Less Reaction
Thirdly, Deva Would risk destroying every other body, leaving itself defenseless, and Orochimaru, still alive. The other Bodies would be engaged in battle, this, just as susceptible as the others at the time. It isn't opportune.
Still, the Rashomon defense still stands, seeing as, Sasuke didn't summon Manda until he exploded. This means, if you cut out the steps of Genjutsu and hopping inside of Manda, you would not even need warning, even though the Sharingan can see all chakra.

Unless you can tell me why Sharingan would not he able to see chakra.

 

[Braiyan]

No one in Konoha has as much knowledge on Rinnegan as Orochimaru. They would not have formulated a counter, not were they combating Deva, Tsunade was.

Which is irrelevant to the point that if the CST Deva was preparing was detectable, one of the many sensors or Hyugas in the village would have detected it. Oro's knowledge on the Rinnegan is irrelevant when he can't detect when CST will be used.

You were missing the point.
Less Buildup=Less Release=Less Reaction

But you haven't even proved that anyone was able to detect it with "less" buildup. Or that "less" buildup was the reason why no one was able to detect all the different variations of ST used instead of CST.

Thirdly, Deva Would risk destroying every other body, leaving itself defenseless, and Orochimaru, still alive.

Not if he uses it at the start. Not if he uses it in front of the other bodies. Orochimaru is not guaranteed to live either considering 4 Tailed Naruto's Bijuu Bomb would have killed him. Which is weaker than 6 tailed Naruto's Bijuu Bomb. Which is weaker than CST.

The other Bodies would be engaged in battle, this, just as susceptible as the others at the time. It isn't opportune.

Not if he uses it from the start. Not if Animal Path (who has zero reason to be engaged directly in battle) summons the other Paths behind Deva.

Still, the Rashomon defense still stands,

When is Orochimaru going to decide to summon Rashomon? When he sees the other Path bodies drop to the floor?
Fine, he bites his thum- suddenly he and the rest of his team are blasted through every building in Amegakure.

seeing as, Sasuke didn't summon Manda until he exploded. This means, if you cut out the steps of Genjutsu and hopping inside of Manda, you would not even need warning

Except CST is much faster than C0, and doesn't have the warning of Deva slowly turning into a little black ball, or even exploding in a bright, very noticeable light beforehand. Sasuke probably gets as far as summoning Manda, then you have Manda being slammed into the team as they are blasted across Amegakure, and that's with the incredibly generous assumption that Sasuke even realises his life is in danger from watching the Path bodies drop to the floor.

, even though the Sharingan can see all chakra. Unless you can tell me why Sharingan would not he able to see chakra.

I already have my proof of Sharingan failing to detect the different variations of ST. And Byakugan. And SM sensing. That's why every countermeasure suggested for ST was to attack Deva during his 5 second cooldown.

 

[Xlad]

Not surprised this matchup was one-shotted.

 

[blazekev90]

Are you guys seriously arguing with him regarding awareness?! Tsunade and Blacks Ops survived with NO awareness! How did they survive and communicate with her summoning to protect the villagers? Telepathically AFTER seeing scale of the attack itself. Manga scans provide no other implications other than CTS being used while Tsuande was in pursuit.

Attacks no matter how fast, take time to travel and when this attack a shockwave is the outcome, pushing everything outward. Summoning is what? S/T aka instant and with summoning telecommunications transpire, so there's no need to elaborate before taking action.

There's no reason or proof to debunk Manda being summoned in time to rescue whomever. The only thing needing to be addressed is whether Manda would survive and how many allies would he be able to gather in time.

Learn when to pick and chose your battles, he clearly wasn't worth addressing in his original post.

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

@ Bold: Since they know nothing of Pein Rikudo's Jutsu it's impossible for them to accurately prepare for such an attack and even in that nigh improbability; they die as the magnitude of the blast from that angle and distance would faster eradicate more layers of earth than they could possibly borrow through which again circulates to the fact that they do not accurately know area of effect of the attack meaning they would not know how deep to borrow or at what rate.

Why would you think that Orochimaru has Kagerō?
​

Oro has info on all of Akatsuki...even Tobi

 

[Curse Mark]

Oro has info on all of Akatsuki...even Tobi

Any evidence for that?