[Discussion] Smoker's return

[Bogard]

No it's called plot.

@TBogard

You're hopeless just keep believing that Luffy, Law and Zoro can low diff Smoker like an idiot just keep on ignoring story consistency and it's characters in order to overrate your favorites while downplaying characters you don't like.

Fact is Oda wouldn't have Luffy saying a fight with Smoker who isn't at full power would be annoying unless Smoker at full power could push Luffy to a high/extreme diff fight. Fact is Smoker has been chasing Luffy since East Blue and has beat him twice Luffy has yet to beat Smoker. Fact is Oda wouldn't be having Smoker gunning for Luffy unless Smoker could give him challenge. Smoker is the marine with possibly the most appearances in the series so far and has ultimately cemented his significance to the story, if Smoker was as weak as you state he'd have no relevance now to the story.

I look forward to the re-appearance of Smoker and watching the excuses you make on how he is still weaker than Zoro and also I look forward to seeing you and others rage at the fact Luffy hasn't and isn't going to solo Doflamingo.

So basically you're pulling a i've no counter, but i love Smoker too much, so i can't see it happening thing?

1- Law already mid diffed Smoker, you can't deny that. It happened in the manga

2- I never said Zoro can low diff Smoker. I said it's possible Luffy and Law can. Zoro is weaker than both

I know the truth hurts but like i've said since the beginning of this debate, at least i'm presenting facts. You on the other hand just can't deal with them because of your obvious Smoker fanboyism making you blind while facing reality.

If Smoker defeat low diffs Zoro tomorrow, fine. It wouldn't necessarly prove me wrong though. It could happen because it would simply mean that Smoker grew vastly stronger than his former self meantime and i've no problem with Smoker growing stronger than my favourites. However, you on the other hand seems to have a lot of problems accepting current facts and even if somehow i were proved wrong in the future for one or another reason, it would change nothing in my life considering i've no emotional affection with a cartoon manga. If giving facts makes your heart hurt so badly, you should stop debating

 

[OG sama]

The Zoro hate and underestimation in this thread is laughable.

Zoro is a SN just like Luffy and Law are. Or did you dumbass haters forget that? So in a sense their ALL rivals in power.

We don't even know Zoros limit yet, yet people are putting Smoker over him just because THEY believe he's not a rival, that's stupidity as its finest. And what has Smoker done to be put on such a pedestal anyway? The guy got mid diff by a law who wasn't even going all out. And got mid diffed by Vergo who wasn't using Full armament. Same Vergo that got one shotted by Law.

And not only that, but Law did WAY better than anyone else so far at hurting Mingo, indicating the gap between him and Smoker is even bigger. While Smoker got blitzed out of his mind. Zoro got his own self out of Fujis gravity all on his own, and hasn't had trouble beating anyone yet. How is this guy not a rival for Luffy, Law, and Smoker? Why don't people treat Zoro like he is a rival to them? Is it because hes never in conflict with them? Like Smoker is? Why aren't people treating Zoro like he's a Supernova?

And now its even more obvious that Smoker is heavily outclassed, now that both Doflamingo and Luffy are injured. You can beat your asses there battle is going to be 1 on 1 with no advantages for either side. And you best believe Luffys coming out the winner. Oda couldn't have made that anymore obvious at this point.

 

[Hexuze]

The Zoro hate and underestimation in this thread is laughable.

Zoro is a SN just like Luffy and Law are. Or did you dumbass haters forget that? So in a sense their ALL rivals in power.

We don't even know Zoros limit yet, yet people are putting Smoker over him just because THEY believe he's not a rival, that's stupidity as its finest. And what has Smoker done to be put on such a pedestal anyway? The guy got mid diff by a law who wasn't even going all out. And got mid diffed by Vergo who wasn't using Full armament. Same Vergo that got one shotted by Law.

And not only that, but Law did WAY better than anyone else so far at hurting Mingo, indicating the gap between him and Smoker is even bigger. While Smoker got blitzed out of his mind. Zoro got his own self out of Fujis gravity all on his own, and hasn't had trouble beating anyone yet. How is this guy not a rival for Luffy, Law, and Smoker? Why don't people treat Zoro like he is a rival to them? Is it because hes never in conflict with them? Like Smoker is? Why aren't people treating Zoro like he's a Supernova?

And now its even more obvious that Smoker is heavily outclassed, now that both Doflamingo and Luffy are injured. You can beat your asses there battle is going to be 1 on 1 with no advantages for either side. And you best believe Luffys coming out the winner. Oda couldn't have made that anymore obvious at this point.

Hate/Underestimation? All Zoro gets is overestimation, he's barely done anything post-TS besides saying a bunch of one liners and slashing up fodders. No one hates Zoro, it's just that we're not biased here. You can't deny that Smoker gets so much hate because of a single arc.


So, we don't know Smoker's limit either. We've seen nothing new/impressive out of his DF post-TS and if you really think that he didn't learn any new techniques/abilities from his DF over a 2 year TS then you're just in denial. Smoker has been a fierce rival with Luffy pre-TS and Oda has been building that up ever since loguetown arc. Vergo got one shotted by Law, do you really think Zoro could do the same thing or at least low-diff. him? No, I don't think so, there is a difference in level between the two. I don't even think that he can defeat Vergo seeing how he never showed any CoA feats. that suggest he can bypass it, let alone cut it. Well at least you think the Smoker vs Law fight was a mid-diff. fight, there's others that think Law spanked/low-diff'd him.

Lol And? Smoker fought with Law & Vergo before meeting up with Mingo and not to mention his weapon got destroyed by Vergo. He was at a huge disadvantage. Last time I checked, Zoro never fought anyone on the level of Law/Vergo before facing up with Fujitora. He got himself out of Fujitora's gravity? Yeah, barely. That gravity hole was smaller than the one we've seen in the casino as well.

Okay... Zoro is still fighting Pica.

 

[Bogard]

Smoker gets hated because of a single arc? That's the most ridiculous statement i've ever heard. So judging a character's power-level accurately means hate?

1- Who do you think created that arc? Oda
2- Why do you think Oda made Smoker lose all his battles? Because he wanted fans to say, no he is underrated, he is on Law/Luffy level? No it was to show Smoker's weakness comparatively to them

The problem is not even on Zoro's rating, no it's on Smoker's rating. I keep saying this, but you people simply want to dodge and try to use a rivalry thing to ignore the proper feat, the proper portrayal, the proper display Smoker had during that arc

Once again, Law mid diffed Smoker without going all out. That automatically means that at the very least someone capable to push Law to high difficulty fills the gap between Law and Smoker. Someone capable to push Law to very high difficuly fills the gap between Law and Smoker. Someone capable to push Law to extreme difficulty fills the gap between Law and Smoker. Smoker isn't Law level

And unless you think Luffy isn't Law level(ridiculous at this point when you know Luffy has superior portrayal), saying that Smoker could push current Luffy to high/very high or even extreme difficulty like some wankers are trying to pass on this forum is just fanboyism and this Smoker fanboyism really needs to stop.

Zoro aside, Sanji arguably performed better against his opponents and don't even give the fatigue excuse when we see what a Law in a far worse state is capable to do against an opponent who fodderised him. I don't hate Smoker. I hate no one piece characters besides the celestial dragons, but i'm slowly and surely starting to hate his wankers who are so blinded they ignore his character's portrayal. Don't confuse rivarly with strength. Because he is Luffy's marine rival doesn't mean they will always be close in strength and at this point in time, Luffy is stronger than him by a significant margin. Will he come back much stronger later in the manga? Only time will tell, but currently let's stop fooling ourself. The gap between Luffy and Smoker currently is so big it can fill many people and that is the reality

 

[TheHokage]

Smoker gets hated because of a single arc? That's the most ridiculous statement i've ever heard. So judging a character's power-level accurately means hate?

1- Who do you think created that arc? Oda
2- Why do you think Oda made Smoker lose all his battles? Because he wanted fans to say, no he is underrated, he is on Law/Luffy level? No it was to show Smoker's weakness comparatively to them

The problem is not even on Zoro's rating, no it's on Smoker's rating. I keep saying this, but you people simply want to dodge and try to use a rivalry thing to ignore the proper feat, the proper portrayal, the proper display Smoker had during that arc

Once again, Law mid diffed Smoker without going all out. That automatically means that at the very least someone capable to push Law to high difficulty fills the gap between Law and Smoker. Someone capable to push Law to very high difficuly fills the gap between Law and Smoker. Someone capable to push Law to extreme difficulty fills the gap between Law and Smoker. Smoker isn't Law level

And unless you think Luffy isn't Law level(ridiculous at this point when you know Luffy has superior portrayal), saying that Smoker could push current Luffy to high/very high or even extreme difficulty like some wankers are trying to pass on this forum is just fanboyism and this Smoker fanboyism really needs to stop.

Zoro aside, Sanji arguably performed better against his opponents and don't even give the fatigue excuse when we see what a Law in a far worse state is capable to do against an opponent who fodderised him. I don't hate Smoker. I hate no one piece characters besides the celestial dragons, but i'm slowly and surely starting to hate his wankers who are so blinded they ignore his character's portrayal. Don't confuse rivarly with strength. Because he is Luffy's marine rival doesn't mean they will always be close in strength and at this point in time, Luffy is stronger than him by a significant margin. Will he come back much stronger later in the manga? Only time will tell, but currently let's stop fooling ourself. The gap between Luffy and Smoker currently is so big it can fill many people and that is the reality

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So basically your opinion is all of the monster trio can beat Smoker and Law and Luffy could low - mid diff him...

It's clear you don't know how to interpret a manga correctly not to mention read into a story especially considering if we go by your opinion then Smoker has lost relevance to the story which we both know isn't going to happen so you can stick to your deluded belief that Smoker will never be at their level but you know he'll appear again challenging Luffy not Zoro or Sanji.

Funny you take portrayal as an indicator of strength for every character except Smoker...(Luffy is stronger than Law because of portrayal), (Zoro is stronger because of portrayal)...yet when it comes to Smoker's portrayal of being Luffy's rival you ignore it because it contradicts your little fantasy of Zoro being stronger than Smoker.

 

[Bogard]

It's clear you don't know how to interpret a manga correctly not to mention read into a story especially considering if we go by your opinion then Smoker has lost relevance to the story which we both know isn't going to happen so you can stick to your deluded belief that Smoker will never be at their level but you know he'll appear again challenging Luffy not Zoro or Sanji.

What's clear is that you're a Smoker fanboy who refuses to see the light

Funny you take portrayal as an indicator of strength for every character except Smoker...(Luffy is stronger than Law because of portrayal), (Zoro is stronger because of portrayal)...yet when it comes to Smoker's portrayal of being Luffy's rival you ignore it because it contradicts your little fantasy of Zoro being stronger than Smoker.

Where did i ignore Smoker's portrayal? Where did i ignore Smoker's rivalry with Luffy? No, i said it myself that he is a rival to Luffy(his marine rival). But rivalry has nothing to do with strength. You want me to list a library of multiple rivals who aren't even close in strength before you actually know the difference between the two?

I couldn't care less if Smoker ends up being stronger than Zoro. I'm not as power-level fanatic over a character i like, like you do. There are many characters i admit Zoro is weaker than(i think even a new and minor character like Sai can defeat Zoro) but it just happens that your favourite character is not one of them. Part1 Smoker was stronger than Zoro, that's something i can gladly admit. However, currently Zoro is portrayed to be stronger yes, but because of your little power-level fanatism over the character Smoker, you can't see it. If it makes you better sleep at night though, yes Smoker can low diff Zoro

 

[Hexuze]

Smoker gets hated because of a single arc? That's the most ridiculous statement i've ever heard. So judging a character's power-level accurately means hate?

1- Who do you think created that arc? Oda
2- Why do you think Oda made Smoker lose all his battles? Because he wanted fans to say, no he is underrated, he is on Law/Luffy level? No it was to show Smoker's weakness comparatively to them

I wasn't specifically referring to you, Bogard. There's a few individuals that love to hate on Smoker whenever they have the chance to, e.g exaggerate the difficulty level of a fight that Smoker lost, try their best to belittle him as much as then can, etc., etc. Whether you want to deny it or not, it's up to you really.

The problem is not even on Zoro's rating, no it's on Smoker's rating. I keep saying this, but you people simply want to dodge and try to use a rivalry thing to ignore the proper feat, the proper portrayal, the proper display Smoker had during that arc

His rivalry with Luffy is his portrayal lol. Zoro does get a lot of hype, there's no denying it and you guys are extremely lucky that Zoro has a lot of plot helping him from getting a beating from someone much more superior.

Once again, Law mid diffed Smoker without going all out. That automatically means that at the very least someone capable to push Law to high difficulty fills the gap between Law and Smoker. Someone capable to push Law to very high difficuly fills the gap between Law and Smoker. Someone capable to push Law to extreme difficulty fills the gap between Law and Smoker. Smoker isn't Law level

Can we fairly access Smoker from PH? No, he never went all out. His loss from Vergo/Doflamingo was from him having a motive behind the fight, i.e. get Law's heart back & not to rat out on the SH's/Law. Against Law, he did quite well and managed to intercept him quite a few times and pin him down, nearly killing him.

And unless you think Luffy isn't Law level(ridiculous at this point when you know Luffy has superior portrayal), saying that Smoker could push current Luffy to high/very high or even extreme difficulty like some wankers are trying to pass on this forum is just fanboyism and this Smoker fanboyism really needs to stop.

Yes, just because we think Smoker can push Luffy to high/extreme-diff., automatically makes us wankers? We're judging a character's power level just like you are. Btw, I'm more of a fan of Zoro than Smoker, I'm sure most people here are. Anyways, this panel are disproves what you've said here...

2- Why do you think Oda made Smoker lose all his battles? Because he wanted fans to say, no he is underrated, he is on Law/Luffy level? No it was to show Smoker's weakness comparatively to them

Yeah if Oda really wanted to hit that point home, he wouldn't have had Luffy state this. Also, it's already painful enough that you think Smoker won't be able to push Luffy to at least high diff. seeing how many years Oda has spent building up Luffy's and Smoker's rivalry. The future PK, low-mid diff's his marine rival that has been chasing him down since part 1? Yeah lmao okay.

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Zoro aside, Sanji arguably performed better against his opponents and don't even give the fatigue excuse when we see what a Law in a far worse state is capable to do against an opponent who fodderised him. I don't hate Smoker. I hate no one piece characters besides the celestial dragons, but i'm slowly and surely starting to hate his wankers who are so blinded they ignore his character's portrayal. Don't confuse rivarly with strength. Because he is Luffy's marine rival doesn't mean they will always be close in strength and at this point in time, Luffy is stronger than him by a significant margin. Will he come back much stronger later in the manga? Only time will tell, but currently let's stop fooling ourself. The gap between Luffy and Smoker currently is so big it can fill many people and that is the reality

Sanji did better against who? Vergo? Nope. Smoker inflicted much more damage to Vergo than Sanji and his objective was to get Law's heart back. I think the better term than hate is dislike or have a negative bias. Again, I'll say it again. You think Oda is going to create a character (Smoker) to be the rival of the main protagonist of the series (Luffy), only to have him get his ass kicked or get mid-diff'd? That's like saying Zoro would mid-diff. Mihawk at EoS or something really stupid that goes against the character's portrayal. Ofc he'll come back stronger, he always has. Do I think what we saw at PH of Smoker was an accurate measure of strength for him? Nope. That arc to me, was to show Smoker that not all pirates are evil/bad. (at least from Smoker's perspective)

 

[TheHokage]

What's clear is that you're a Smoker fanboy who refuses to see the light

Where did i ignore Smoker's portrayal? Where did i ignore Smoker's rivalry with Luffy? No, i said it myself that he is a rival to Luffy(his marine rival). But rivalry has nothing to do with strength. You want me to list a library of multiple rivals who aren't even close in strength before you actually know the difference between the two?

I couldn't care less if Smoker ends up being stronger than Zoro. I'm not as power-level fanatic over a character i like, like you do. There are many characters i admit Zoro is weaker than(i think even a new and minor character like Sai can defeat Zoro) but it just happens that your favourite character is not one of them. Part1 Smoker was stronger than Zoro, that's something i can gladly admit. However, currently Zoro is portrayed to be stronger yes, but because of your little power-level fanatism over the character Smoker, you can't see it. If it makes you better sleep at night though, yes Smoker can low diff Zoro

Considering the type of rivalry Smoker and Luffy have it's an important factor that they be relatively similar in strength. The two have constantly battled one another reasonably even throughout the series makes no sense story wise, character wise and would be inconsistent to the characters build up.

...Not really Zoro's portrayal is beating fodders no real exception CoA feats to his name (something he experts in Haki). Said this before when it comes to ranking characters strength feats will always be above portrayal.

Lol Sai cannot beat Zoro.

 

[A v i]

I hope he'll return after 2 or 3 arcs and he'll be much stronger by then. As Bogard already pointed out, Smoker isn't there yet. He's a level or two below Luffy as of now.

So basically your opinion is all of the monster trio can beat Smoker and Law and Luffy could low - mid diff him...

Law already did it at PH and given Luffy isn't far away from Law. He can pretty much do the same with a bit more difficulty.

It's clear you don't know how to interpret a manga correctly not to mention read into a story especially considering if we go by your opinion then Smoker has lost relevance to the story which we both know isn't going to happen so you can stick to your deluded belief that Smoker will never be at their level but you know he'll appear again challenging Luffy not Zoro or Sanji.

If anything it's you who's refusing to accept the fact that Luffy left Smoker in dust. It's not like Smoker and Luffy are always comparable in strength. I don't remember a panel in which Luffy managed to fight on par with Smoker pre-TS. You guys have no problems back then. Yet,when it comes to Smoker you guys are having hard time to accept the truth. As already pointed out by Bogard Smoker might get closer to Luffy in future but he's not up there as of now no matter how badly you look at it. No one is saying that Smoker'll stay behind Luffy until the EOS. He's currently not matching Luffy unless you think Law >> Luffy =Smoker.Lol

Funny you take portrayal as an indicator of strength for every character except Smoker...(Luffy is stronger than Law because of portrayal), (Zoro is stronger because of portrayal)...yet when it comes to Smoker's portrayal of being Luffy's rival you ignore it because it contradicts your little fantasy of Zoro being stronger than Smoker.

According to current manga portrayal as well as feats Smoker is currently below those guys. No, one is ignoring the fact that he considers luffy as a rival but he's currently can't match Luffy. He might get much stronger and reach Luffy's level in future.

 

[Bogard]

I wasn't specifically referring to you, Bogard. There's a few individuals that love to hate on Smoker whenever they have the chance to, e.g exaggerate the difficulty level of a fight that Smoker lost, try their best to belittle him as much as then can, etc., etc. Whether you want to deny it or not, it's up to you really.

Well considering i was the one arguing in the last pages, i thought you meant me, my bad then. I don't discuss much with people on this part of the forum, so i don't know everyone's behaviours concerning each and every characters

His rivalry with Luffy is his portrayal lol. Zoro does get a lot of hype, there's no denying it and you guys are extremely lucky that Zoro has a lot of plot helping him from getting a beating from someone much more superior.

If it's the case, what about Luffy then? I think Zoro could defeat every opponent Luffy had so far besides Doflamingo. Every character has a certain plot on his side, even Smoker. It's plot that saved Smoker against Law(no killing intent). It's plot that saved Smoker(in Tashigi's body) against Caesar. It's plot that saved Smoker against Doflamingo(with Kuzan saving him). Everything is plot related

Can we fairly access Smoker from PH? No, he never went all out. His loss from Vergo/Doflamingo was from him having a motive behind the fight, i.e. get Law's heart back & not to rat out on the SH's/Law. Against Law, he did quite well and managed to intercept him quite a few times and pin him down, nearly killing him.

Let's ignore the Vergo/Doflamingo part for a moment. He had no reason not to go all out against Law, yet he lost mid diff and Law was the one who didn't display all what he could. Smoker only pinned him down once, and that happened when he had his focus on someone else(Tashigi). So i think Law won fair and square without being endangered even once

Yes, just because we think Smoker can push Luffy to high/extreme-diff., automatically makes us wankers? We're judging a character's power level just like you are. Btw, I'm more of a fan of Zoro than Smoker, I'm sure most people here are. Anyways, this panel are disproves what you've said here...

If you think Smoker can push Luffy to high/extreme difficulty, it means you think he is weaker than Law, something contradicted by his superior portrayal

Yeah if Oda really wanted to hit that point home, he wouldn't have had Luffy state this. Also, it's already painful enough that you think Smoker won't be able to push Luffy to at least high diff. seeing how many years Oda has spent building up Luffy's and Smoker's rivalry. The future PK, low-mid diff's his marine rival that has been chasing him down since part 1? Yeah lmao okay.

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This page just shows that their rivarly is still there and that they are destinated to meet again in the future. Doesn't mean however that they are currently comparable in strength and that i think is the mistake you're doing here. It's not like Luffy saw Smoker these past 2 years to know exactly how strong he is. He just felt nostalgic about him

It's no different really to what he said to Sentomaru

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Tashigi knows and travel with Smoker everytime, yet she couldn't believe how strong Zoro was just by feeling a glimpse of his aura, she couldn't believe such growth-rate was even possible with a logia so terrified by the overwhelming power of his opponent that she couldn't even put herself back together. That is some heavy hype coming from someone who follows Smoker every day and night as his right hand woman. It was to say that Zoro's growth-rate surpassed all expectations

This is also what Luffy thinks about Zoro

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Zoro even basically said in fishmen island that if it wasn't for his conqueror haki, Luffy may not even have maintained his post as the captain. In the current Dressrosa arc, he was eagered to compete with Luffy in the tournament.

I think Zoro is heavily underestimated comparatively to Luffy because he is the captain. Zoro's portrayal has majority of times being comparable to that of his captain, enough for it not to be impossible to think he can defeat even Luffy's rivals

Sanji did better against who? Vergo? Nope. Smoker inflicted much more damage to Vergo than Sanji and his objective was to get Law's heart back. I think the better term than hate is dislike or have a negative bias. Again, I'll say it again. You think Oda is going to create a character (Smoker) to be the rival of the main protagonist of the series (Luffy), only to have him get his ass kicked or get mid-diff'd? That's like saying Zoro would mid-diff. Mihawk at EoS or something really stupid that goes against the character's portrayal. Ofc he'll come back stronger, he always has. Do I think what we saw at PH of Smoker was an accurate measure of strength for him? Nope. That arc to me, was to show Smoker that not all pirates are evil/bad. (at least from Smoker's perspective)

Well better was exaggerated on my part, but i think they were comparable at the very least especially when you realise that neither of them went all out. At least, Sanji didn't actually lose. Add that into the difference in their performance against Doflamingo(even if Smoker was weakened, Law in a worse state performed much better)

And no, when they will actually fight, Smoker will give him a good fight(just like Mihawk will probably give the greatest fight of his life to Zoro), but what i'm arguing is that currently there is a non-negligeable gap between them. The problem is that you people think rivals are always comparable in strength when i don't think like that

 

[A v i]

His rivalry with Luffy is his portrayal lol. Zoro does get a lot of hype, there's no denying it and you guys are extremely lucky that Zoro has a lot of plot helping him from getting a beating from someone much more superior.

Lol. What do you mean? Fuji fodderized Zoro no dif, An opponent who's stronger than all of Smoker's opponents after TS. And We are happy to accept the fact that Zoro was owned by Fuji with no dif.

 

[OG sama]

What does Smoker being at a disadvantage with doflamingo matter? If he can't even beat Law or Vergo? People are trying to put Smoker on some level that he clearly is not on.

Fact of the matter is, Luffy and Law are currently significantly above Smoker. By the end of this arc, Luffy will be slightly above Mingo, if he beats him alone. And how can we say Smoker has more tricks up his sleeve when he haven't seen any? He showed good haki, but not enough to beat Vergo. Him having more DF abilities isn't gone to help, that's what influenced his loss against vergo.

And I don't get what else you guys are expecting from Smoker. The guy needs to improve his Haki more. Nothing else. The fact that he's gone and most likely won't be back for a few more arcs just proves that the Smoker on PH wasn't at their level. Any thing he does after this arc won't have anything to do with him holding back on PH.

 

[Hexuze]

If it's the case, what about Luffy then? I think Zoro could defeat every opponent Luffy had so far besides Doflamingo. Every character has a certain plot on his side, even Smoker. It's plot that saved Smoker against Law(no killing intent). It's plot that saved Smoker(in Tashigi's body) against Caesar. It's plot that saved Smoker against Doflamingo(with Kuzan saving him). Everything is plot related

Enies Lobby Zoro couldn't take on Lucci seeing how much he struggled with Kaku. So that's not true. I don't think you understood where I was getting at. I meant that you won't see Zoro get a beating like Sanji, Luffy or Smoker did with Doflamingo. A scenario where he suffers from serious injuries and loses due to a overwhelming difference in power.

Let's ignore the Vergo/Doflamingo part for a moment. He had no reason not to go all out against Law, yet he lost mid diff and Law was the one who didn't display all what he could. Smoker only pinned him down once, and that happened when he had his focus on someone else(Tashigi). So i think Law won fair and square without being endangered even once

And? He never saw Tashigi as a threat and he got pinned down after Smoker intercepted him. That's ridiculous, he was in danger when he got pinned.

If you think Smoker can push Luffy to high/extreme difficulty, it means you think he is weaker than Law, something contradicted by his superior portrayal

It's hard to say really. Law low-diff'd Vergo but mid-diff'd Smoker. Zoro hasn't shown haki feats to put him over Vergo (or close to it) so he'd be taken out easier than Vergo did. There's people that Law can take out with much easier difficulty than Luffy can, i.e. brawlers such as Vergo/Smoker. I wouldn't use Law's victories & the difficulty of those victories to gauge how Luffy would do since they have different fighting styles.

This page just shows that their rivarly is still there and that they are destinated to meet again in the future. Doesn't mean however that they are currently comparable in strength and that i think is the mistake you're doing here. It's not like Luffy saw Smoker these past 2 years to know exactly how strong he is. He just felt nostalgic about him

It's no different really to what he said to Sentomaru

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It is different and that scan isn't relevantly similar. "There's no point in fighting you unless you're at full power", suggests that they're near equals. It also suggests that Luffy will be fighting all out as well.

Tashigi knows and travel with Smoker everytime, yet she couldn't believe how strong Zoro was just by feeling a glimpse of his aura, she couldn't believe such growth-rate was even possible with a logia so terrified by the overwhelming power of his opponent that she couldn't even put herself back together. That is some heavy hype coming from someone who follows Smoker every day and night as his right hand woman. It was to say that Zoro's growth-rate surpassed all expectations

That still doesn't suggest Zoro is stronger, she was just shocked that he could intimidate her without "attacking".

This is also what Luffy thinks about Zoro

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Luffy has trust in all his crewmates. Nothing surprising here or doesn't have as much meaning as the one I posted. Luffy intends on going all out the next time he meets Smoker or at least giving it his best.

Zoro even basically said in fishmen island that if it wasn't for his conqueror haki, Luffy may not even have maintained his post as the captain. In the current Dressrosa arc, he was eagered to compete with Luffy in the tournament.

I think Zoro is heavily underestimated comparatively to Luffy because he is the captain. Zoro's portrayal has majority of times being comparable to that of his captain, enough for it not to be impossible to think he can defeat even Luffy's rivals

I think Oda's writing is being underestimated/undermined here the most. You're ignoring the rivalry/portrayal Smoker has been given since part 1. Smoker's feats. are good as well. Zoro was placed in a corner during the PH arc, the three top dogs were Smoker, Luffy & Law. They are indicated to be near equals. I like to see these three as the M3, where Smoker is the Sanji of the M3, Luffy is the Zoro of the M3 and Law is the Luffy of the M3. (from a power standpoint)

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It's already quite clear that you're underestimating Smoker here the most since you stated that you had doubts if he can beat Sanji. You're already overestimating Zoro more than enough, it seriously feels like I'm reading some sort of love fanfiction when you praised Zoro for scaring off Monet.

Well better was exaggerated on my part, but i think they were comparable at the very least especially when you realise that neither of them went all out. At least, Sanji didn't actually lose. Add that into the difference in their performance against Doflamingo(even if Smoker was weakened, Law in a worse state performed much better)

And no, when they will actually fight, Smoker will give him a good fight(just like Mihawk will probably give the greatest fight of his life to Zoro), but what i'm arguing is that currently there is a non-negligeable gap between them. The problem is that you people think rivals are always comparable in strength when i don't think like that

Sanji's intent was kicking Vergo's ass, whereas Smoker wanted to get Law's heart back. Smoker still managed to do more damaged with his punches than Sanji's DJ. One of the reasons why Law performed better was because that he had intel on Doffy's powers.

So what is a rival to you? I just don't see the gap being that big as you're making it out to be. It's better if I illustrate it with numbers I guess. Assuming Luffy is 100...

Smoker = 96-97
Zoro = 95
Sanji = 91-93

 

[TheHokage]

I hope he'll return after 2 or 3 arcs and he'll be much stronger by then. As Bogard already pointed out, Smoker isn't there yet. He's a level or two below Luffy as of now.

I agree I'm not saying he isn't a level below Luffy both Zoro and Sanji are a level below Luffy as well...I'm just pointing out that out of Smoker, Zoro and Sanji Smoker is the closest to Luffy in strength.

Law already did it at PH and given Luffy isn't far away from Law. He can pretty much do the same with a bit more difficulty.

You do realize a fight isn't determined on how one person does...for instance Law was fortunate to have his unique devil fruit ability had it been Luffy Smoker had pinned to the ground like he did Law how would Luffy get out he couldn't swap places with something like Law could also Law won the fight with strategy he was able to momentarily distract Smoker to land a winning hit.

The prospect that because Law can beat Smoker then Luffy should be able to is ridiculous the ABC logic doesn't really work in One Piece.

If anything it's you who's refusing to accept the fact that Luffy left Smoker in dust. It's not like Smoker and Luffy are always comparable in strength. I don't remember a panel in which Luffy managed to fight on par with Smoker pre-TS. You guys have no problems back then. Yet,when it comes to Smoker you guys are having hard time to accept the truth. As already pointed out by Bogard Smoker might get closer to Luffy in future but he's not up there as of now no matter how badly you look at it. No one is saying that Smoker'll stay behind Luffy until the EOS. He's currently not matching Luffy unless you think Law >> Luffy =Smoker.Lol

No...I'm not finding it hard to accept anything I fully acknowledge Luffy is 'currently' stronger however I don't think the gap is as big as you and T Bogard seem to make it. Actually I always seen Luffy and Smoker quite even pre-skip granted Smoker won twice however both speed and strength wise I think it would have been a close fight and I view the two of them getting stronger at a comparable speed one because Luffy wants to become strong enough to be PK and two Smoker once to be strong enough to capture Luffy.

I see it more like this...

Law>=Luffy>Smoker>=Zoro>Sanji

According to current manga portrayal as well as feats Smoker is currently below those guys. No, one is ignoring the fact that he considers luffy as a rival but he's currently can't match Luffy. He might get much stronger and reach Luffy's level in future.

What feats exactly? There is none.

CoA feats: Smoker wins
Speed feats: Smoker wins

The only thing Zoro has over Smoker is his destructive capability and that's purely because the two have different fighting styles and maneuvers.

If going by your gauge of Smoker's level 'currently' then him ever catching up to Luffy would be an asspull considering Luffy's exceptional growth rate it makes far more sense for Smoker to be just a little bit weaker than Luffy and constantly grow at a similar pace while...being a little bit weaker.

 

[Dannie]

Not like his weak ass can do anything.

 

[Hexuze]

What does Smoker being at a disadvantage with doflamingo matter? If he can't even beat Law or Vergo? People are trying to put Smoker on some level that he clearly is not on.

Fact of the matter is, Luffy and Law are currently significantly above Smoker. By the end of this arc, Luffy will be slightly above Mingo, if he beats him alone. And how can we say Smoker has more tricks up his sleeve when he haven't seen any? He showed good haki, but not enough to beat Vergo. Him having more DF abilities isn't gone to help, that's what influenced his loss against vergo.

And I don't get what else you guys are expecting from Smoker. The guy needs to improve his Haki more. Nothing else. The fact that he's gone and most likely won't be back for a few more arcs just proves that the Smoker on PH wasn't at their level. Any thing he does after this arc won't have anything to do with him holding back on PH.

*Sigh*

He increased the surface area of his smoke to get Law's heart back. Even Vergo was confused why he kept increasing the surface area of his body/smoke because it made him an easy target. I don't think he needs to improve his haki, it's actually pretty good but not the best. His DF needs more improvement or Oda will reveal what he learned with his DF the next time he fights Luffy. Keep saying that Smoker is not on their level, you'll be proven wrong once we see him again.

Please prove to me that he isn't on their level.

 

[A v i]

I agree I'm not saying he isn't a level below Luffy both Zoro and Sanji are a level below Luffy as well...I'm just pointing out that out of Smoker, Zoro and Sanji Smoker is the closest to Luffy in strength.

I am not interested in Zoro vs Smoker as we have been repeating the same shit again and again in every Zoro and Smoker related threads and failed to change each others opinions. So, I don't want to bring Zoro into this discussion.

You do realize a fight isn't determined on how one person does...for instance Law was fortunate to have his unique devil fruit ability had it been Luffy Smoker had pinned to the ground like he did Law how would Luffy get out he couldn't swap places with something like Law could also Law won the fight with strategy he was able to momentarily distract Smoker to land a winning hit.

The prospect that because Law can beat Smoker then Luffy should be able to is ridiculous the ABC logic doesn't really work in One Piece.

Don't talk as if Smoker gets a chance to pin down every opponent that he faces. It seems like Smoker fans are thinking that this so called pin down attack is impossible to escape if you don't have teleportation. Lol ABC logic clearly works in OP except for the cases with natural advantage(Luffy and Enel). I don't remember Law having natural advantage over Smoker to think that it is impossible for someone of Law's caliber to beat him with almost same level of difficulty.

No...I'm not finding it hard to accept anything I fully acknowledge Luffy is 'currently' stronger however I don't think the gap is as big as you and T Bogard seem to make it. Actually I always seen Luffy and Smoker quite even pre-skip granted Smoker won twice however both speed and strength wise I think it would have been a close fight and I view the two of them getting stronger at a comparable speed one because Luffy wants to become strong enough to be PK and two Smoker once to be strong enough to capture Luffy.

Luffy was no match for Smoker before TS. Smoker easily fodderized Luffy in all of their battles.

I see it more like this...

Law>=Luffy>Smoker>=Zoro>Sanji

As I said before I don't want to make this a Zoro vs Smoker thread. I have no problem as long as you think Luffy is stronger than Smoker but he's not as close to Luffy as you think.

What feats exactly? There is none.

CoA feats: Smoker wins
Speed feats: Smoker wins

The only thing Zoro has over Smoker is his destructive capability and that's purely because the two have different fighting styles and maneuvers.

If going by your gauge of Smoker's level 'currently' then him ever catching up to Luffy would be an asspull considering Luffy's exceptional growth rate it makes far more sense for Smoker to be just a little bit weaker than Luffy and constantly grow at a similar pace while...being a little bit weaker.

I was referring to Luffy and Law when I said that he's below those guys. As I have already mentioned above I have no interest in comparing Zoro with Smoker.

It won't be an ass pull as Smoker ain't getting it out of nowhere. He'll get time to train his ass. No need to mention Smoker's experiences at PH are almost identical to what Luffy experienced when he lost his crew members. This is the best chance for Smoker to realize that he's too weak and needs to train his ass even harder than before to get stronger so that he'll be able to protect his men from big guys of New world.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Please prove to me that he isn't on their level.

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[A v i]

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Lmao, I don't get why it's so hard for them to accept this.Lol

 

[Hexuze]

Spoiler

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A brawler like Luffy wouldn't be able to mid-diff. Smoker like Law did. It still doesn't show how he's not on Luffy's level. TheHokage said it correctly, the ABC logic doesn't work here especially with someone like Law with a haxed ability that allows him to bypass even talented haki users such as Vergo with the help of his DF.