Pre timeskip non gear 2nd beat Crocodile...Smoker is far superior to Luffy's level back then and considering Crocodile doesn't have a Haki feat to his name I'd say it's fair to assume Smoker wouldn't struggle against Crocodile.
[Discussion] Smoker vs Crocodile vs Jinbe
- Thread starter Fireplay
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1) Where did it almost KO crocodile?
2) Pre gear luffy has the physical strength of a monster, he was able to beat down blueno and trade a few blows with the zoan fruit user lucci ultimately losing due to speed.
Pre gear luffy had to use all his physical strength just to beat Crocodile, and he need to use one big thing the KO him:
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He had to pummel him up through x amount of layers of underground coal, steel, building, and rocks just to Ko him out.
You also forget that Luffy lost to crocodile 2-3 times, and still needed the aid of Robin just to beat Crocodile.
Now let's not get biased here, pre gear luffy also physically beat the snot out of Enel and even Ace couldn't find his way to defeat Smoker.
But that doesn't mean smoker is stronger than Ace does it? Of course not...
Pre gear luffy's strength was undeniably strong to pick up and toss any logia.
Even hear:
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Luffy had enough physical strength to throw Akojji (although he put down his intangibility on purpose) in the air.
Now obviously aokji would one shot the hell out of luffy neg diff, but this is a comparison on physical strength.
Pre gear luffy is physically strong as hell at the point he fought off crocodile.
Jinbei and smoker don't have the physical strength necessary to beat up crocodile, just look at how many attempts, exploied weakness, help, and conditions it took luffy to do it.
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~Naruto&Itachi~
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Jimbe is most likely to win vs the 2, Smoker coz of haki wld b second but if its just concidering strenght not a battle speculation it wld b Jimbei>Crocodile>Smoker,
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Proves that Crocodile legitimately lost a fight to Luffy in that form and current Smoker is far superior to how Luffy was back then. We have no current feats to judge Crocodile by so until he shows a Haki level that surpasses Smoker he won't be able to cause Smoker to much of a problem.
You want to talk physical strength? Jozu is a physical monster. He tossed an iceberg bigger than anything Luffy has even touched. Via feats Jozu>Garp in physical strength.
Jozu's brilliant punk knocked Crcodile back and made him bleed. If Jozu had kept doing that to him Croc would've been out cold. Doesn't matter how strong Pre-gears Luffy is physically, he can't be compared to Jozu. Even TS Luffy can't be compared to Jozu.
The attacks Luffy used to beat Croc are much weaker then those Jozu has in his arsenal. Luffy losing to Croc 2 times has nothing to do with this. He beat Croc eventually...once the intangibility factor was out Croc got smashed. A single bazooka from alabasta Luffy knocked Croc down during round 2.
The fact that Luffy can toss Aokiji is no surprising feat. Aokiji doesn't weight as much as an iceberg. Any high-tier OP character can toss Aokiji. Humans dont weight multiple tons.
A single bazooka from alabasta Luffy knocked Croc down. You don't need Jozu level physical strength to put Crocodile down. Period.
BB took multiple point blank quakes from WB and stood back up yet Magellan, Ace and Luffy were able to put him on his knees.
Jinbe grabbed Akainu's magma fist...
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Crocodile only lost because luffy found his weakness....don't forget what happened in the first fight
Yeah and to our knowledge Smoker has no weakness that Crocodile can use on Smoker they are both Logia's and like I said unless Crocodile gets some Haki feats he can't dish out any damage to Smoker which is the whole point of my argument Crocodile has no way of harming Smoker.
Exactly why Crocodile tanking Brillant punk makes him note worthy.
By feats Garp is stronger because he leveled eight mountains before beating a continent buster.
Jozu also made Aokiji bleed, doesn't mean he was anywhere close to being knocked out.
Of course if Jozu when out half as much pre gear luffy did, he would be knocked out.
The point is that Crocodile is a tank, and he was able to take a barrage of attacks from luffy that would knock out any logia (except for admiral) and a hit from Jozu.
Meaning, no amount of hits smoker or Jinbei is going to use that will knock out crocodile before ending the fight in one touch.
I'm not comparing Jozu and luffy, this Crocodile being able to take hits from very physically powerful individuals for a logia.
Bold: I hope your joking, because no bazooka knocked out Crocodile.
Luffy nearly died in the third fight, because robin had to help him out with the antidote to even move in the first place.
Crocodile beat up luffy twice before losing the last one due to being damp (no long range sand attacks work) and blood being a means for hitting Crocodile
Crocodile weighs just as less, so all that time luffy was beating crocodile in hand to hand combat should say something.
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A single bazooka didn't do sh*t, because Crocodile was still fighting afterwards.
Bold: All the more reason why Crocodile is beating JInbei and smoker, because none of them come close to Jozu's strength.
You just further proved my point period.
BB has a different condition compared to other logias, he's also physically strong enough to injure shanks, tank a quake hit, and beat the piss out of Ace.
Teach always goes down on his kness from every attack, even Bonney was able to kick him to the ground.
Luffy is physically strong enough to hit anyone when given the perfect opportunity, because even Luffy second gear was able to send his Garp flying to the ground when he closed his eyes and let luffy hit him with no retaliation.
Luffy's third gear tanked buddah sengoku's punk (which by the way had haki because luffy spat out blood, when he's made of rubber)
So don't use BB in comparison, this guy would tank hits and fall on the floor in pain, yet he would get up and wreck most of his powerful opponents if not injure them pretty bad.
And put a hole in his chest...
Crocodile split akainu with grande espada and clashed with Akainu for a while (off panel) before the whitebeard pirates arrived.
Crocodile didn't tank Jozu's attack. You can't say that Jinbe can't harm Croc because Jozu used brilliant punk on Croc. If Croc had brushed off Jozu's attack easily (tanked it) then you could say that but he didn't.
Also, Garp destroying 8 mountains isn't something you can use as an argument. We don't know how long it took him to do it or how he did it and considering that he was practicing in order to fight Chinjao it probably took him days.
Luffy, Zoro, Sanji can all destroy mountains if you give them time. Theres a difference between destroying mountains in a long span of time and destroying a mountain with a single attack.
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Those attacks Luffy used on Croc would do nothing to current high-tiers. Crocodile lost to Alabasta Luffy Lmao. Any high-tier right now would oneshot alabasta Luffy. Zoro oneshotted Hody Jones who is leagues above Alabasta Luffy therefore all high-tiers can stomp Pre-gears Luffy.
Even Lucci was taking stronger attacks from Gears Luffy yet was able to keep fighting unlike Croc who got KO'd by base attacks.
I said knocked down not knocked out.
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Im not denying this. All im saying is that nonetheless Crocodile lost to pre-gears Luffy. If he was as strong as you're hyping him up to be he would'nt have lost to a pre-gears Luffy.
Again, it did do sh*t because Crocodild clearly felt that shit. You're saying that Akainu taking half of WB's face didn't do shit because he kept fighting? Zoro taking hits from Oars didn't do shit because he kept fighting? Nope. "Didn't do shit"=an attack literally did nothing to your opponent.
I clearly said that you DON'T need Jozu level physical strength to put Crocodile down and then proved to you exactly why yet you bolded and twisted only a select few words and made it look like you were right. Read the whole line.
Yes but i only used BB as an example. There are many examples but i use BB because he's the most obvious one.
BB took point blank quakes yet stood back up. That does not mean you need attacks as strong as WB's quakes to put BB down. You're saying that because Jinbe and Smoker's attacks aren't as strong as Jozu's they can't put Crocodile down. Which is wrong. Luffy put him down with MUCH weaker attacks for example.
Garp took that one on purposs though. Of Carp had stayed determined and decided to not let Luffy past him, Luffy'a punch would have done nothing to him.
Lets put it like this....
Post TS Luffy>>>>>>>>>>>Sabaody Luffy>>>>>Alabasta Luffy.
Alabasta Luffy who is weaker then Jozu put down Crocodile
Sabaody Luffy who is weaker then Jozu but stronger then Alabasta Luffy could not even harm a Pacifista on his own.
Post-skip Luffy who is weaker than Jozu but stronger than Alabasta and Sabaody Luffy oneshotted a Pacifista.
All 3 versions of Luffy are below Jozu yet via feats they can put down Crocodile. Your logic flaws here.
Now this is what i mean with "didn't do shit". Akainu was about to finish Jinbe and didn't even see Croc com
ing so he got split but the attack did no damage to him.
And about Croc and Akainu clashin off screen...No...they did not clash, they didn't even trade blows. After Croc used Sables to blow Jinbe and Luffy away from the scene, Akainu completely ignored Croc and tried to magma punch Jinbe and Luffy while they were in the air then Vista used a technique to block the magma punch then the WB pirates showed up.
Croc and Akainu didn't clash, talk or even look at each other.
What?
That's like saying Doffy didn't tank red hawk, that one or two more would knock him out.
Just because he flew back bleeding...
If he didn't tank it, he wouldn't be landing on his feet would he?
But luffy hit doflamingo the way that Jozu hit Crocodile.
1) Both were unexpected
2) Both bleed
3) Both flew back
We can't just underrate Crocodile because he lost 1/3 times to luffy who had several help from people/exploited weaknesses.
I'm trying to be very discrete here, my point here is that Crocodile has shown good enough durability to take hits from the likes of luffy and even Jozu who are examples of physical monsters in the show (especially Jozu).
It's not like Crocodile was like Caribou, who literally got one-shotted by a single Haki punch from Pekoms.
No, he took a diamond Haki brilliant punk deck to the face and still landed on his feet to fight some more.
Of course no logia is physically powerful like these two (especially Jozu), Aokiji fought these two and it is clear who are physically stronger...
But!!!
One thing that logias are, is that they are a lot more powerful than paramecias/physically strong people.
Aokji played with luffy, but luffy is still physically strong to send him meters in the air before getting One shot.
Aokji staled with Jozu until he showed he was powerful enough to shatter almost half his body.
Crocodile in many instances played with luffy and gave him a time limit before beating him with minimal difficulty.
Crocodile also survived a blitz from Jozu, but his sand was still strong enough to hurtle him across the marineford.
I'm in no way comparing Aokiji to Crocodile (Aokiji would beat the crap out of him), but I'm showing you a good example of how logias should fight physically strong people.
Since Jinbei uses fisherman karate stance, why not use shables to toss him up and cresent sand to drain his moister?
Or use what he did Akainu, Grande Espade..?
So of course underwater Jinbei neg diffs the two by child's play....
Any other circumstances Crocodile will win
And Jinbei deadlocking a fire element is also a prime example, not only does fire lose to water but Ace shared the weakness of Crocodile of getting soaked.
Jinbei won't survive without an ounce of water being drained from him, let alone a whole body.
yea i guess so since you love crocodile so much.
but bleeding is very irrelevant since garp just bled from dadan. now look at that huge gap between the two.
also, luffy has always been strong since his frst day of being a pirate. he just fodderized the seaking who ate shanks arm and aokiji doesnt weigh that much... and most of the time logic isnt really applied.
I think Crocodile is a note worthy character, I just think he should be dignified.
Mihawk in my opinion is the best...
On Topic: there are a lot of running gags and scenes that correlates to this, but talking strictly battling.
The flew back bleeding was suppose to be the same thing, but I was emphasizing a point.