SM Naruto vs v2 Killer Bee
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KidGamer65
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Except it did. Unless you actually have a reason as to why Naruto would hear the sound and not be affected, then there's no debate on this topic. It's completely obvious that B gets effect. It being a distraction doesn't make sense as an explanation for why Naruto didn't get affected, cause he was under it, and heard it, but wasn't affected.
Jiraiya was right next to Ma and Pa when Gamarinsho was used, does that mean that human sized targets aren't affected? Obviously not. Lol. B gets bound.
Got scans of that happening for Killer B's cloak? Didn't happen when he hit Nagato, nor did it happen for Ginkaku and Kinkaku, and Kinkaku and Ginkaku even have Kyuubi's chakra.
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I have clear reason to believe it's a trait for Kyuubi's Jins and Kyuubi's Jins alone. So Ma and Pa can cut or melt B with their Acid/Sword Tongue attacks.
That FRS is the size of a regular Bijuu Dama. Pretty sure it contains enough chakra to overload it because of Senjutsu overload...but I'll admit that chakra amount isn't an issue now.
Ok.
Doesn't erase the danger of Senjutsu, but I'll give you this point. We'll say he can take in the Chou Oodama FRS.
A normal one? Sure. A Bijuu+ Sized FRS? Yes, especially considering 6 tails worth of chakra is NOT on the level of any Bijuu's full chakra. B had to have his cloak absorbed multiple times before it was considered to be most of his chakras.
Senjutsu says hi.
Thought I already conceded this point....guess not. Lol
Uh, and where did I say he'd do this? Lol. Never once said or implied that Naruto would attack while he's absorbing FRS.
Senjutsu Chakra.
I'm 100% sure that B doesn't win this.
Not sure what you are looking at here, but they didnt pierce through the V2 cloak, nor were they even able to pierce the V1 cloak.
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If they could pierce the V2 cloak, B would've skewered right then and there.
Agreed...but the spikes aren't on Chidori's level when it comes to penetration power.
-Used up energy in Bijuu Mode.
-Used up energy throughout the War.
-Still used a giant Bijuu Sized FRS and even maintained Sage Mode, which would run out before his own Base chakras run out, normally, and he has Kurama to feed him chakra if necessary, so no, stamina is not an issue for him. He probably won't even need to use up his own stamina to defeat Kisame let alone his plus chakra from Kurama.
Uh....what?
1. "This method won't work" referred to my method, not your argument.
2. Never said he'd rush B while he absorbs anything.
Evasion? Nope. Absorption? Half half.
Lol.
Not only did I say fusing with Samehada makes that strategy (That I mentioned) moot, I already replied to your chakra arm stuff. Naruto easily evades it, but like I said, it doesn't matter.
Wrong. Not sure why or where people heard this from, but taking in too much Senjutsu=Turning into a toad. That was all that was stated. Where it comes from is logically, and factually irrelevant...unless you can explain to me why it wouldn't be. Chou Oodama FRS>>>>>>>FRS>>>>Chou Oodama Rasengan>Goemon with it comes to chakra amount. Preta only absorbed one FRS against Naruto, Madara absorbed one. Preta absorbed a Chou Oodama Rasengan and Goemon from Jiraiya, and a Katon. That's pretty much it. Put all those together and they still don't come close to the amount of power Chou FRS carries, so those examples don't help you.
Since Killer B can take in all of it, he turns into a toad.
Already addressed.
Then if all else fails, he can have them prep Gama Rinsho.
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Haizaki
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I won't be able to respond to everything now but I wanted to talk about some points for now...Though I'll admit the Senjutsu may be an issue which I'll think about and reply afterwards when I return back.
Still highly doubt B would be paralyzed. My Naruto being within range was to point out the fact that the Jutsu has limits and can't paralyze every character in the NV because of it catching summons like that...People only say paralyze because of the Wiki's description of the Jutsu. The only one so far that was said to paralyze according to the Manga and DB was Gamarinsho. Frog call? Does the DB or Manga give it such because Naruto should have done so and ended Pain if he could just be paralyzed leaving him vulnerable. Pretty sure the Jutsu would be given no limits if that's the case but I showed Naruto walking right under it's range which is different from Jman's case when you think of the fact that he was with them while the wave of the Jutsu was flowing towards the Paths and not towards Jman
The Jutsu is Ma's and Pa's not Naruto so it's not a case of Naruto being unaffected by his own Justu.
Either way if frog call is used, Naruto can only use Rasenshuriken which gets absorbed but this Jutsu can't be held forever and even if it holds B down, he gets released as they stop.
You made a point which I'd address later regarding the Senjutsu but assuming it's not a factor for now, FRS would just get absorbed
Kyuubi Jins and Kyuubi jins alone? Why? Because it's the chakra that does so and Ginkaku and Kinkanku have that chakra so why is it it's the Jin only?
This would be implying the Kyuubi doesn't have it anymore because it's clear that the burning process doesn't happen all the time
Nagato's clothes not being burned doesn't prove so because the Jutsu was already absorbed at that point but you can see it's an activation that's not shown every time.
How about this though
Clearly it's inside B's body and you can see the blood from his mouth. That's deffs the V1 surrounding him there.
The red arrow shows the spikes were already out while B was in V2 and in order for it to get inside him in his base like I showed, it must have gone past V2.
Unless I'm misunderstanding your point but I don't think so.
Nah they could be higher from what it seems
Still highly doubt B would be paralyzed. My Naruto being within range was to point out the fact that the Jutsu has limits and can't paralyze every character in the NV because of it catching summons like that...People only say paralyze because of the Wiki's description of the Jutsu. The only one so far that was said to paralyze according to the Manga and DB was Gamarinsho. Frog call? Does the DB or Manga give it such because Naruto should have done so and ended Pain if he could just be paralyzed leaving him vulnerable. Pretty sure the Jutsu would be given no limits if that's the case but I showed Naruto walking right under it's range which is different from Jman's case when you think of the fact that he was with them while the wave of the Jutsu was flowing towards the Paths and not towards Jman
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while frog call was towards Naruto unlike Jiraya who had the sages on his shoulder. Genjutsu like that always have waves which is why Temari swung and countered Tayuya's before it got to her. So Jman who wasn't within the wave region shouldn't be affected like Temari who wasn't and had time to defend herself from the waves. Different cases.The Jutsu is Ma's and Pa's not Naruto so it's not a case of Naruto being unaffected by his own Justu.
Either way if frog call is used, Naruto can only use Rasenshuriken which gets absorbed but this Jutsu can't be held forever and even if it holds B down, he gets released as they stop.
You made a point which I'd address later regarding the Senjutsu but assuming it's not a factor for now, FRS would just get absorbed
Kyuubi Jins and Kyuubi jins alone? Why? Because it's the chakra that does so and Ginkaku and Kinkanku have that chakra so why is it it's the Jin only?
This would be implying the Kyuubi doesn't have it anymore because it's clear that the burning process doesn't happen all the time
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Nagato's clothes not being burned doesn't prove so because the Jutsu was already absorbed at that point but you can see it's an activation that's not shown every time.
How about this though
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Clearly it's inside B's body and you can see the blood from his mouth. That's deffs the V1 surrounding him there.
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The red arrow shows the spikes were already out while B was in V2 and in order for it to get inside him in his base like I showed, it must have gone past V2.
Unless I'm misunderstanding your point but I don't think so.
Nah they could be higher from what it seems
KidGamer65
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Ok.
That's baseless. What about Naruto would prevent the sound from paralyzing him? He's not immune to Sound, nor is he on a level where we could logically say he'd shrug it off. (Rikudo leveled people)
Lol since when? Not to mention the manga explicitly shows them being paralyzed due to the sound, so whether or not DB says it does is irrelevant.
Lol. Naruto not using Frog Call on Pain isn't proof that Frog Call can't be used to paralyze Killer B temporarily. It's sound. There's no reason his body would react differently to sound than anyone else. Sound Genjutsu has caught Itachi and Sasuke. White Rage's sound affected them, though much worse than something like Frog Call would.
That's irrelevant. The wave of the Genjutsu didn't reach Temari, so she was able to blow it back. The wave literally came from Jiraiya's shoulder area, as that is where the Frog Elders are located, yet he wasn't caught. There is no reason why he wouldn't be caught if your logic was sound. Then there's the fact they were going to use the same Gama Rinsho against Pain while Naruto stalled him. If your logic was sound, Naruto would be caught in the Genjutsu right along with Pain.
It's a case of him being unaffected by his allies Jutsu.
Yeah, a normal FRS. Not a gargantuan FRS. The time it takes for him to be freed is more than enough time to make the jutsu, and possibly even execute it...but considering B can't dodge either way, it doesn't really matter.
Uh-huh.
There's a reason why it doesn't happen all the time. From what I can see, it only applies to the chakra arms, not B's body. So this doesn't stop Ma and Pa from cutting/burning his main body.
Uh-huh.
I'll give you this point, but it only pierces the V1 cloak, at best. Still more durable than Sage Naruto I believe, so yeah, I'll concede this point.
No. V2 was absorbed. Meaning all it'd have to do is get past V1.
Haizaki
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Since we've pretty much agreed on the things that would and would affect opponents I think the main points.
Frog song:
Still doubt this would be a major way of holding B down but since I don't have enough evidence asides the Naruto point, I'll concede this one. If B had the speed, it would have been a non factor but he doesn't and can't evade its Range.
Ma/Pa cutting B:
Let's just say it's the chakra arms but even so Jin can release chakra arms from parts of their body
Let's say that's not the case, can that tongue physically hold B intact without getting ripped off with B's physical prowess? B's physical prowess matches or exceeds Ay when in Base let alone V2. That tongue only has feats of cutting up a Chameleon and some pipes...It took a Lightning transmission to cut the chakra arms. Any evidence that the Tongue slash can cut the Main body of the V2 Cloak?
Senjutsu:
Deciding factor...Like you said,
They don't come close to the power which is true but does Senjutsu vary with the attacks? Not entirely sure but there's less proof that Naruto puts more Senjutsu into his attack that the Senjutsu in those ones which were from 3 people(Jman/Ma/Pa)
True he absorbed different attacks from different people but my point is he absorbed one thing which was Senjutsu...Unless it wears off from his body so it should still hold that he absorbed from Jiraiya and Naruto not considering when he absorbed it.
It took all of the Senjutsu in Naruto to turn him into a toad and even so, Naruto gathered more which was why he didn't move after the SM was completely absorbed the first time
Reason why I differentiated the 2 was because the amount in his attacks shouldn't contain the amount in him...Which is why I think it shouldn't be the case. Naruto uses different attacks (powerful attacks) but still remains in SM which leads me to believe that those attacks don't contain as much.
Ma and Pa can make Senjutsu limitless but his attacks aren't limitless and they shouldn't contain the level which would make B turn into a toad.
Frog song:
Still doubt this would be a major way of holding B down but since I don't have enough evidence asides the Naruto point, I'll concede this one. If B had the speed, it would have been a non factor but he doesn't and can't evade its Range.
Ma/Pa cutting B:
Let's just say it's the chakra arms but even so Jin can release chakra arms from parts of their body
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so he can just release it while even tied up which would burn it. Not to mention he can even physically react to it with either movements or arms before it comes considering the Chameleon could jump before that thing closed up. Let's say that's not the case, can that tongue physically hold B intact without getting ripped off with B's physical prowess? B's physical prowess matches or exceeds Ay when in Base let alone V2. That tongue only has feats of cutting up a Chameleon and some pipes...It took a Lightning transmission to cut the chakra arms. Any evidence that the Tongue slash can cut the Main body of the V2 Cloak?
Senjutsu:
Deciding factor...Like you said,
They don't come close to the power which is true but does Senjutsu vary with the attacks? Not entirely sure but there's less proof that Naruto puts more Senjutsu into his attack that the Senjutsu in those ones which were from 3 people(Jman/Ma/Pa)
True he absorbed different attacks from different people but my point is he absorbed one thing which was Senjutsu...Unless it wears off from his body so it should still hold that he absorbed from Jiraiya and Naruto not considering when he absorbed it.
It took all of the Senjutsu in Naruto to turn him into a toad and even so, Naruto gathered more which was why he didn't move after the SM was completely absorbed the first time
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so it took all of that to turn him into a toad.Reason why I differentiated the 2 was because the amount in his attacks shouldn't contain the amount in him...Which is why I think it shouldn't be the case. Naruto uses different attacks (powerful attacks) but still remains in SM which leads me to believe that those attacks don't contain as much.
Ma and Pa can make Senjutsu limitless but his attacks aren't limitless and they shouldn't contain the level which would make B turn into a toad.
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KidGamer65
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Alright.
Good.
Point.
Point.
Senjutsu:
It being from 3 people means nothing when FRS contains more chakra than all 3 jutsu combined, unless you want to argue that a Katon, Oil, and Fuuton, and Chou Oodama Rasengan have more chakra than a regular FRS let alone a Chou FRS.
3 FRS used to use up Naruto's Senjutsu chakra completely. 1 Chou Oodama>>>>3 FRS in chakra quantity as we can clearly see. Unless you think Goemon, Katon and Rasengan contain more chakra than Naruto's whole Senjutsu limit earlier on, then it's clear which has more chakra.
Two completely different battles with a pretty large amount of time in between them. Absorbing X amount of attacks from Jiraiya and Y amount of attacks from Naruto doesn't mean that you can add X and Y, not when all that time is between.
Naruto had already used a double Rasengan, clones and FRS...and he can only use 2 FRS before his Sage Mode runs out. So all Preta took in was an almost finished transformation from Naruto, and a full one, which lets him use 2 FRS. Chou FRS contains more chakra than over 3-4 FRS let alone 2, and I'm pretty sure that B's chakra reserves (Not Gyuki) are not above Nagato's, so it'll take even less chakra to turn him to stone.
Read above.
They should, and they do.
Draegod
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Yes, no reason to say he cannot. If mindless naruto could, then a ninja who mastered tbb and even taught naruto can. Bee literally knows the formula, has the chakra, and knows it like no one. Foolish to think otherwise unless the manga says he cannot.
Haizaki
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Point with the Senjutsu bit...True it would be the main problem but Naruto takes it with much more difficulty than you initially thought since he may be opened for attacks from B as well.
Draegod
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Didnt care to read all in the thread but I assume it has something to do with Naruto spamming RS to beat bee. lol
Bee and Rasenshuriken of any level:
There is the silly notion that Rasenshuriken can be used instantly or at the very least on a whim. COuldn't be further from the truth! This is the sequence for using Rasenshuriken in Sage mode:
Step 1:
Step 2: Charge the chakra to make the Fuuton rasengan into Rasenshuriken
Step 3: Hold and wait for an opening and has to be thrown.
FRS cannot be used close range since he would also be caught be the AOE. So he would have to catch bee in a bad spot Close range or catch bee off his feet. Neither of which would happen. Bee has took stronger hits from more powerful opponents and barely budged, nothing in Naruto's Taijutsu Arsenal would blow him back with out him also dealing would be blows. Bee can either opt to
Toads using Frog call/song:
This is assumed He would have time to allow them to set up and escape. Bee is a CQC fighter of the highest degree! He is one of the fastest ninjas and a powerhouse to match. In V1 or V2 cloak if he engages in a Sparring match he wins everytime! PPL think "oh sage senses makes him predict and counter", that would be wrong!
Bee can literally Have his Chakra cloak attack when Naruto dodges the first strike. Then we also have the 8 tails aiding in CQC sparring! It is impossible to dodge 10+ strikes all from different angles at once for any ninja shown! The only option is to retreat or defend. Period! Then the fact Bee can also
No diff shunshined very far away from a sensor and a MS user!
From being far away was able to shunshin before Naruto could make a Shadow clone (one hand sign btw) and intercept Aye's punch! That speaks volumes! Since Naruto is able to make clones fairly quick, yet bee was faster then the mold of his chakra!
And ofc right here fast enough to not only match V1 Aye, but also move faster then a Jutsu could be used! Be will no doubt be able to move out of harms way more times then not.
Then we have the army of Ink Clones:
The clones are hella Durable and are able to even
So in short:
Regular Sage Rasenshuriken is absorbed, avoided (like deva and others did), or they both are hit and naruto dies. ODama FRS takes too long to charge when Be would never ever give him an opening! And the Chou Odama FRS takes even longer to charge!!! To think he would
If Bee Opt's to fight long range (which not happening since he isn't long ranged) then Naruto wins more times then not. But the fight will remain Close at all times since bee is faster, stronger and has wayyy better technique! With an platoon of Ink clones to aid him he wins more times then not since naruto wont have openings to unleash his killer mores.
Bee and Rasenshuriken of any level:
There is the silly notion that Rasenshuriken can be used instantly or at the very least on a whim. COuldn't be further from the truth! This is the sequence for using Rasenshuriken in Sage mode:
Step 1:
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Step 2: Charge the chakra to make the Fuuton rasengan into Rasenshuriken
Step 3: Hold and wait for an opening and has to be thrown.
FRS cannot be used close range since he would also be caught be the AOE. So he would have to catch bee in a bad spot Close range or catch bee off his feet. Neither of which would happen. Bee has took stronger hits from more powerful opponents and barely budged, nothing in Naruto's Taijutsu Arsenal would blow him back with out him also dealing would be blows. Bee can either opt to
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, or place his
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to make him stay with in range of naruto not using the Jutsu (because he would die before bee ofc). Now with that being said Using RS is useless with out decoys. Thus the toads come into play.Toads using Frog call/song:
This is assumed He would have time to allow them to set up and escape. Bee is a CQC fighter of the highest degree! He is one of the fastest ninjas and a powerhouse to match. In V1 or V2 cloak if he engages in a Sparring match he wins everytime! PPL think "oh sage senses makes him predict and counter", that would be wrong!
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Bee can literally Have his Chakra cloak attack when Naruto dodges the first strike. Then we also have the 8 tails aiding in CQC sparring! It is impossible to dodge 10+ strikes all from different angles at once for any ninja shown! The only option is to retreat or defend. Period! Then the fact Bee can also
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from no where anywhere on his body to also attack when a would be strike is avoided! Basically Naruto is shittet on in close combat every single time! The toads would be attacks are tanked or absorded no diff! The only attacks the sage toads have shown that would be ok is the sound base jutsu which Bee instantly Shunshins out of range!
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No diff shunshined very far away from a sensor and a MS user!
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From being far away was able to shunshin before Naruto could make a Shadow clone (one hand sign btw) and intercept Aye's punch! That speaks volumes! Since Naruto is able to make clones fairly quick, yet bee was faster then the mold of his chakra!
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And ofc right here fast enough to not only match V1 Aye, but also move faster then a Jutsu could be used! Be will no doubt be able to move out of harms way more times then not.
Then we have the army of Ink Clones:
The clones are hella Durable and are able to even
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! So while they will not be as threatening as bee, An army of them will be more then enough to help aid bee in fighting Naruto! So in short:
Regular Sage Rasenshuriken is absorbed, avoided (like deva and others did), or they both are hit and naruto dies. ODama FRS takes too long to charge when Be would never ever give him an opening! And the Chou Odama FRS takes even longer to charge!!! To think he would
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is beyond crazy when he has a shit load of clones and Sama to help aid him. Not to mention after using FRS more then 2 times he goes out of sage mode more times then not. If Bee Opt's to fight long range (which not happening since he isn't long ranged) then Naruto wins more times then not. But the fight will remain Close at all times since bee is faster, stronger and has wayyy better technique! With an platoon of Ink clones to aid him he wins more times then not since naruto wont have openings to unleash his killer mores.
Icelerate
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BenjerminGaye shat on all arguments when it comes to Bee using TBB in V2. I'm going to have to find and save that post.
Draegod
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Is it that serious that you have to choose that username? I'm trying to figure out who you really are. And It is impossible for him "to shit on Bee using V2 arguments" since Bee never had to use TBB in V2. To think is it Naruto only is because he only showed it mindless beyond retarded! That's like me saying Sasuke doesn't have a chance to have PS exactly like madara and his Rinnegan form since he hasn't shown it but knows how to use it.
Icelerate
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I remember you saying that EMS Sasuke doesn't possess PS. I'm Icelerate BTW.
Beans2
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So many mistakes in this post lol
Draegod
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Oh SHIT! lmmfao hahahahaha Why Dafuq you choose that user name? I thought you were that Nike air kid, or one of them sasuke fan users. What did KG do to you, or are you just being funny and praising him?
And I still don't think he can do it by himself, I never stated he couldn't when he canonally did against Madara.
Icelerate
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I got free premium by winning the Valentine Day event so I decided to constantly change my name because I can only do so for one month. I wanted a reaction out of you all especially KG who hasn't given any reaction as of now.
So Sasuke can only use PS with external chakra IYO?
Brother Numpsay
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I honestly believe only Kurama can do it in V2/humanoid form. I use to think any V2 can. But after exploits of each Buijuu and their personal abilities, I end up dropping the belief that they can.
When Naruto gain all Buijuu's power, each were able to transfer their chakra into his Rasengan or TSB. Each had their own but Kurama. Notice how Kurama specialized in using TBB in a Rasengan specifically[
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]. And each tail represent to what they can give:
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TBB chakra seems unique to Kurama here. And by feats.
Draegod
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That literally proves nothing! How does that prove anything when it is cannon and fact all 9 Bijuu can use basic TBB? Like literally they all showed TBB, and just because naruto didn't use 9 Of the same TBB FRS you all think he cant? when he has already used multiple TBB
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? Then we also have the fact that he used there different characteristic FRS because they all do something different (i.e. Sand seals, Lava expands etc etc). Like literally they all used TBB. No discussion! It is cannon fact V2 is just a compressed version of the
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. Fact from cannon number two if you choose to ignor the obvious;
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Bee canonically did exactly What Kurama did; Kishi literally showed a flash back to compare and show every user! Like literally! I will literally circle and expand on what Kishi had to flash back for it's viewers! Now with that being said and shown, He was the one who taught Naruto how to use TBB cannonaly correct? Then he should know how to do mini versions in his V2 state untill the manga states no other Bijuu can use TBB in V2 state and ony Kurama can.
It's one thing to say he hasn't shown it so he doesn't have it, but to flat out say none of them can do it when they all cannonly have the ability is too is a bit too much.
Brother Numpsay
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Bee also made it clear, for the first step of using TBB
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and
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Bronze
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''shat''? The substance of his argument regarding TBB in V2 was weak. So exactly did you come to the conclusion he shat on it? You might have some different comprehension regarding to winning an argument.