SM Naruto vs MS Sasuke

[Booker]

Since nobody has correctly answered this post I'll do it right now. Susanoo Arrow was too fast for Kakashi to physically react to, same for Danzo. SM Naruto has no speed feats that let him dodge it no matter how many people come in this thread and say otherwise without actually addressing these facts properly. Danzo had to use a Mokuton that required no hand signs and Kakashi had to use Kamui. SM Kabuto has dodged it and he narrowly, but comfortably, dodged it yet when coupled with some sort of distraction even he got caught.

Since nobody has correctly answered this post I'll do it right now. Susanoo Arrow was too fast for Kakashi to physically react to, same for Danzo. SM Naruto has no speed feats that let him dodge it no matter how many people come in this thread and say otherwise without actually addressing these facts properly. Danzo had to use a Mokuton that required no hand signs and Kakashi had to use Kamui. SM Kabuto has dodged it and he narrowly, but comfortably, dodged it yet when coupled with some sort of distraction even he got caught.

Ooo, Kakashi couldn't physically react. Because Kakashi and War Arc SM Naruto are absolutely within the same physical and speed tier. lol, **** outta here with that nonsense. We both know Kakashi gets stomped in pure CQC against WASM Naruto purely because their physicals are too different. Not to mention Kakashi was standing absolutely still at the time the arrow was knocked and fired.

Ever shot a weapon before? Bow or gun? Try aiming and shooting at a moving target. Massive difference in shooting a stationary target, especially when we’re talking about the speeds in Naruto, much less a damn deer. It’s obviously still a fast act since it required Kamui, but it’s only applicable in scenarios where the target is initially stationary. If Kakashi had been actively moving already, would it still have required Kamui? I really think not.

Not looking up the scans for Danzo, he may have been moving when it was knocked and fired which may change things. Although I don’t think Danzo of all people is someone we should be comparing to WASM Naruto, speed wise.

As you stated SM Kabuto dodged the arrow with little effort (and I believe he was moving). WASM Naruto isn’t in his speed tier, but it’s still a good indication of where a SM user would match up with the attack. As you stated in other thread, Sage Mode is Sage Mode. And judging from DSM Kabuto’s appearance, he hadn’t entirely perfected the art like Naruto has with no transformation. Reasonable to assume that WASM Naruto’s stats are at least within the same realm as Kabuto, if not matching them.

All this to say that I agree with the majority of your reasoning, Naruto cannot break through Susano’o with any attack and Amaterasu melts him, literally, since he has no way of avoiding it. Unless Frog Kata can disarm it somehow similar to the Kyuubi Cloak, if anyone wants to make a case for that. My argument was just that Kage Summit Sasuke (No ama) can’t beat Naruto as he starts getting fatigued. If Sasuke wants to pull up V2 or V3 for defense, good for him. That will drain his stamina far before WASM Naruto gets done, especially using massive clone spam.

 

[KidGamer65]

Ooo, Kakashi couldn't physically react. Because Kakashi and War Arc SM Naruto are absolutely within the same physical and speed tier. lol, **** outta here with that nonsense. We both know Kakashi gets stomped in pure CQC against WASM Naruto purely because their physicals are too different. Not to mention Kakashi was standing absolutely still at the time the arrow was knocked and fired.

Ever shot a weapon before? Bow or gun? Try aiming and shooting at a moving target. Massive difference in shooting a stationary target, especially when we’re talking about the speeds in Naruto, much less a damn deer. It’s obviously still a fast act since it required Kamui, but it’s only applicable in scenarios where the target is initially stationary. If Kakashi had been actively moving already, would it still have required Kamui? I really think not.

1. Naruto's physical speed is not far above Kakashi's, only his reaction speed due to Sage Sensing.
2. CQC is more than just speed, irrelevant.
3. Standing still or being in motion is irrelevant as Sharingan tracks movement well enough to determine a foe's future movement.

Not looking up the scans for Danzo, he may have been moving when it was knocked and fired which may change things. Although I don’t think Danzo of all people is someone we should be comparing to WASM Naruto, speed wise.

I'm just listing Susanoo Arrow's feats. Obviously Naruto>>Danzo.

But yeah, he was moving.

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As you stated SM Kabuto dodged the arrow with little effort (and I believe he was moving). WASM Naruto isn’t in his speed tier, but it’s still a good indication of where a SM user would match up with the attack. As you stated in other thread, Sage Mode is Sage Mode. And judging from DSM Kabuto’s appearance, he hadn’t entirely perfected the art like Naruto has with no transformation. Reasonable to assume that WASM Naruto’s stats are at least within the same realm as Kabuto, if not matching them.

No, he wasn't moving.

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And no, it's not reasonable to put Naruto on Kabuto's level. His feats aren't on that level first of all. Second of all Sage Mode being Sage Mode means that it grants the same enhancement to physical, ninjutsu and genjutsu attacks.

And it's outright stated that Kabuto has mastered Sage Mode, so that's not an issue here either. He looks like that because those are the traits of his Sage Mode.

All this to say that I agree with the majority of your reasoning, Naruto cannot break through Susano’o with any attack and Amaterasu melts him, literally, since he has no way of avoiding it. Unless Frog Kata can disarm it somehow similar to the Kyuubi Cloak, if anyone wants to make a case for that. My argument was just that Kage Summit Sasuke (No ama) can’t beat Naruto as he starts getting fatigued. If Sasuke wants to pull up V2 or V3 for defense, good for him. That will drain his stamina far before WASM Naruto gets done, especially using massive clone spam.

Susanoo is obviously more than just a defense. It's an offense at long range via arrows and close-mid range with it's swords and punches. Even if you argue that Naruto can dodge the arrow from a distance, what happens when Sasuke enters V3, uses the arrow as a sword and decides to engage Naruto in close quarters right then and there? He gets stomped and all his clones get destroyed long before Sasuke's stamina runs out.

 

[InfiniteMugen]

Kakashi is second fastest ninja stated by guy

I just thought this was funny

 

[Megax Rocker7]

The title says SM Naruto is that SM Naruto? And did you even pay attention to the scan Naruto still reacted to Amaterasu he used the Kyuubi cloak as a better counter not because he couldn’t but because it was a better option unless you believe forming the cloak is faster than making a clone nevertheless that wasn’t my argument I was talking about SM Naruto sensing the chakra build up in Sasuke’s eye.

Which literally makes no difference whatsoever.

Sasuke intercepted Naruto using amaterasu and it hit him before he could make the clones.

If Naruto couldn't make clones faster than Amaterasu would hit him when he already had his hand sign made, he won't be able to counter amaterasu any other way, he may sense it, but it would be already to late since he has no counter.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

I just thought this was funny

Read the manga. Guy stated it in part 1.

 

[BLAZE]

Sasuke wins

I just thought this was funny

yeah that dude has claimed susanoo isn't chakra;hidan's black rod are same as pain's black rods and tsunade is as fast as raikage.so ignore

 

[FleeOnSight]

I'd say Sasuke high diff. I only say high diff because while sasuke has a barrage of attacks that can be used while sitting inside susanoo naruto does have the reactions reflexes and sensory abilities to respond accordingly but at the same time SM isn't his fastest form so eventually he'd get hit. Not only that he has the option to summon ma pa and other toads for aid. Sasuke walks away with the win but also blind lol.

 

[Blackzoro]

Which literally makes no difference whatsoever.

Sasuke intercepted Naruto using amaterasu and it hit him before he could make the clones.

If Naruto couldn't make clones faster than Amaterasu would hit him when he already had his hand sign made, he won't be able to counter amaterasu any other way, he may sense it, but it would be already to late since he has no counter.

No Read what I said and try to process and answer my question. Naruto still reacted to Amaterasu by countering with kyuubi cloak which was a better option for a counter against Amaterasu he did not have to waste his own chakra he could use the kyuubi could use the kyuubi chakra. That scan does not prove he couldn’t use a shadow clone before Amaterasu hit or it could be like I said he decided to save his own chakra by using kurama’s but nothing suggests he couldn’t use a clone unless again you believe using Kurama cloak is faster than making a clone? And again this is SM Naruto we’re talking about which has far better reflexes than a base Naruto who also countered Amaterasu with cloak.

 

[DHOH]

Amaterasu and arrows end Naruto from a distance. Susanoo and enton ends him in CQC.

 

[InfiniteMugen]

Read the manga. Guy stated it in part 1.

Imagine the ignorance and irony of thinking kakashi is the 2nd fastest from a claim from gai in pt1 and then telling someone else to read the manga as if you have any f cking clue what happened for 700 chapters

 

[Blackzoro]

1. Naruto's physical speed is not far above Kakashi's, only his reaction speed due to Sage Sensing.
2. CQC is more than just speed, irrelevant.
3. Standing still or being in motion is irrelevant as Sharingan tracks movement well enough to determine a foe's future movement.



I'm just listing Susanoo Arrow's feats. Obviously Naruto>>Danzo.

But yeah, he was moving.

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No, he wasn't moving.

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And no, it's not reasonable to put Naruto on Kabuto's level. His feats aren't on that level first of all. Second of all Sage Mode being Sage Mode means that it grants the same enhancement to physical, ninjutsu and genjutsu attacks.

And it's outright stated that Kabuto has mastered Sage Mode, so that's not an issue here either. He looks like that because those are the traits of his Sage Mode.



Susanoo is obviously more than just a defense. It's an offense at long range via arrows and close-mid range with it's swords and punches. Even if you argue that Naruto can dodge the arrow from a distance, what happens when Sasuke enters V3, uses the arrow as a sword and decides to engage Naruto in close quarters right then and there? He gets stomped and all his clones get destroyed long before Sasuke's stamina runs out.

Pretty sure if Sasuke goes V3 with a sword decides to engage in close quarters Naruto would be dumb enough to engage him? I’m sure he can evade some punches since Susanoo is slow but wouldn’t keep it up.Danzo can take a hit or two from v2 Naruto could possibly take on a hit or two from v3 but I don’t think he’ll be dumb enough to carry on but that’s why he has summons. 3 summons along with Pa and Ma who will use Frog song to paralyze Sasuke long enough for Naruto to rip open his susanoo and deck him. And why do you talk like Sasuke has enough stamina to hold susanoo to last against Naruto when he couldn’t even hold susanoo for that long during his fight with Danzo he was breathing hard coughing blood was on the floor after using like 3 arrows and kept switching from rib cage to skeleton to V2 the whole fight. That fight was nearly even seeing as Sasuke also dropped from exhaustion after stabbing Danzo and Karin had to heal him. Danzo was just straight up trash and relied on Izanagi when he could’ve dodge at least one from the range he was at. He managed to dodge one susanoo punch at close range. I don’t see War arc SM losing this fight even Pain Arc which tbh could go either way with the time limit of SM. I’ve seen a lot of thread on forums on this SM wins the majority even that thread of you debating what changed your mind about your argument? Only thing I disagreed with was using DSM Kabuto feat as proof that Naruto can dodge the arrow. His feat against the 3 raikage would’ve been better use imo.

 

[Megax Rocker7]

No Read what I said and try to process and answer my question. Naruto still reacted to Amaterasu by countering with kyuubi cloak which was a better option for a counter against Amaterasu he did not have to waste his own chakra he could use the kyuubi could use the kyuubi chakra. That scan does not prove he couldn’t use a shadow clone before Amaterasu hit or it could be like I said he decided to save his own chakra by using kurama’s but nothing suggests he couldn’t use a clone unless again you believe using Kurama cloak is faster than making a clone? And again this is SM Naruto we’re talking about which has far better reflexes than a base Naruto who also countered Amaterasu with cloak.

No, you should reread both the scan and my post.

Sasuke used Amaterasu before Naruto could create clones, meaning that Sasuke saw Naruto trying to make clones and he intercepted with amaterasu, meaning amaterasu is faster than Kagebunshin.

Naruto didn't create clones because he was hit by amaterasu, so he resorted to the Kyuubi cloak after the flames have already hit him, Naruto did not create the cloak before Amaterasu hits him.

Naruto had to use the cloak because it was the only thing that could rid of the flames, not because it costs less chakra than making clones, because clones won't save him from the flames.

Put SM Naruto in this same situation and he won't be able to survive amaterasu, creating clones won't help him get rid of the black flames that already made contact with him, not that he could create clones to begin with since amaterasu is faster than Kagebunshin.

 

[KidGamer65]

Pretty sure if Sasuke goes V3 with a sword decides to engage in close quarters Naruto would be dumb enough to engage him? I’m sure he can evade some punches since Susanoo is slow but wouldn’t keep it up.Danzo can take a hit or two from v2 Naruto could possibly take on a hit or two from v3 but I don’t think he’ll be dumb enough to carry on but that’s why he has summons. 3 summons along with Pa and Ma who will use Frog song to paralyze Sasuke long enough for Naruto to rip open his susanoo and deck him. And why do you talk like Sasuke has enough stamina to hold susanoo to last against Naruto when he couldn’t even hold susanoo for that long during his fight with Danzo he was breathing hard coughing blood was on the floor after using like 3 arrows and kept switching from rib cage to skeleton to V2 the whole fight. That fight was nearly even seeing as Sasuke also dropped from exhaustion after stabbing Danzo and Karin had to heal him. Danzo was just straight up trash and relied on Izanagi when he could’ve dodge at least one from the range he was at. He managed to dodge one susanoo punch at close range. I don’t see War arc SM losing this fight even Pain Arc which tbh could go either way with the time limit of SM. I’ve seen a lot of thread on forums on this SM wins the majority even that thread of you debating what changed your mind about your argument? Only thing I disagreed with was using DSM Kabuto feat as proof that Naruto can dodge the arrow. His feat against the 3 raikage would’ve been better use imo.

It isn't about whether or not Naruto engages him or not. Naruto isn't fast enough to escape Sasuke so we can forget about that altogether. Bold is literally based on nothing by the way. Danzo didn't take a hit from Susanoo either. He died the moment he got stuck so unless you have the durability feats for Naruto that let him take a punch from V3 Susanoo and not die there's nothing to discuss there either/

-Summons are irrelevant. Can't hurt Susanoo, can't survive it's attacks or Enton.

-Frog Call paralyzes the target's body. Susanoo is controlled by Sasuke's will, not his physical body. So that doesn't work.

-He was able to use Susanoo in combat when needed long enough to defeat Danzo, who stretched out a 10 minute Izanagi. Naruto isn't going to last even half of that time so I don't know why you are bother mentioning any of this, especially since you haven't actually given any reason why Naruto would be able to defeat Sasuke or extend the battle long enough for him to run out of stamina.

Pain Arc Naruto gets destroyed. War Naruto simply loses.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

Imagine the ignorance and irony of thinking kakashi is the 2nd fastest from a claim from gai in pt1 and then telling someone else to read the manga as if you have any f cking clue what happened for 700 chapters

2nd fastest in konoha after gai at that time , so imagine the irony of your thick comprehension. Guy's statement is atleast more trustable than your opinion, your calculating the validity with the progress of manga chapters? Smh. You dont have a fcking clue do you? He kept up with the 4th as a kid and was confident he could beat him. 4th was forced to use ftg. Cut lightning as a kid. Smh at your ignorance.

OT : MS sasuke thrashes naruto with Susanoo.

 

[InfiniteMugen]

2nd fastest in konoha after gai at that time , so imagine the irony of your thick comprehension. Guy's statement is atleast more trustable than your opinion, your calculating the validity with the progress of manga chapters? Smh. You dont have a fcking clue do you? He kept up with the 4th as a kid and was confident he could beat him. 4th was forced to use ftg. Cut lightning as a kid. Smh at your ignorance.

OT : MS sasuke thrashes naruto with Susanoo.

No, I’m calculating based on actual manga feats. Imagine still thinking kakashi is second fastest, imagine thinking using a training feat means 2 sh ts in what your saying. No one said kakashi wasn’t fast, but then again, by literally every post you make, it’s obvious your understanding of the entire manga is “off” to be nice about it. It’s a wonder no one takes anything you say seriously

 

[BLAZE]

Honestly I doubt gai ever said kakashi is second fastest ninja in konoha anywhere in manga considering that certain guy has habit of making fanfics from thin air :lol

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

Honestly I doubt gai ever said kakashi is second fastest ninja in konoha anywhere in manga considering that certain guy has habit of making fanfics from thin air :lol

He said to sasuke and naruto , 'I'm faster than kakashi' which means kakashi is fastest in konoha after guy , atleast at that time period .

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

No, I’m calculating based on actual manga feats. Imagine still thinking kakashi is second fastest, imagine thinking using a training feat means 2 sh ts in what your saying. No one said kakashi wasn’t fast, but then again, by literally every post you make, it’s obvious your understanding of the entire manga is “off” to be nice about it. It’s a wonder no one takes anything you say seriously

'It's a wonder no one takes you seriously' --> grammar is off there . My understanding of the manga is highly advanced and futuristic than your primitive understanding and comprehension . It was in part 1 , you think kakashi doesnt improve in speed? 'During a training session' haha so minato was so kidding that he had no choice but to use FTG against kakashi , right? The rule of the bell session itself is 'come at me with intent to kill' so log out fast , boy . Only your shitty comprehension skill possessing individual would say i said kakashi was the second fastest in the world. He is second fastest in konoha after naruto and sasuke and maybe sakura by now , i was implying thier part one state and its a fact kakashi forced minato in a training session , otherwise he would dodged chidori with his footspeed , if that was even possible unlike in someone's fanfic .

 

[InfiniteMugen]

'It's a wonder no one takes you seriously' --> grammar is off there . My understanding of the manga is highly advanced and futuristic than your primitive understanding and comprehension. It was in part 1 , you think kakashi doesnt improve in speed? 'During a training session' haha so minato was so kidding that he had no choice but to use FTG against kakashi , right? The rule of the bell session itself is 'come at me with intent to kill' so log out fast , boy . Only your shitty comprehension skill possessing individual would say i said kakashi was the second fastest in the world. He is second fastest in konoha after naruto and sasuke and maybe sakura by now , i was implying thier part one state and its a fact kakashi forced minato in a training session , otherwise he would dodged chidori with his footspeed , if that was even possible unlike in someone's fanfic .

Literally everything you post says otherwise. Oh and it should say “more futuristic” good job lol

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

Literally everything you post says otherwise. Oh and it should say “more futuristic” good job lol

'Futuristic' is also the correct word.