SM Naruto vs Minato
- Thread starter KidGamer65
- Start date
That's not what I am saying. The Nature Energy isn't a problem, what is a problem is Naruto's chakra. The scan I posted established that without enough chakra, Nature Energy takes over you. What's to say 1/20th of Naruto's chakra is enough to not be taken over by the Nature energy? His continuos supply wasn't actually a continuos supply, seeing how him going into SM outside of his mind allowed all his clones to go into SM, which is obviously not how it works.. Again, SM feats aren't applicable in his mind, he did things there he hasn't shown outside, and thus can't do outside. 1/20th of Naruto's chakra is definitely not enough to do what Jiraiya couldn't. Jiraiya's largest Rasengan with all his chakra was
You must be registered for see links
, whereas Naruto casually made ones larger than him in the double digits [
You must be registered for see links
]. Naruto has never shown such capabilities outside, Kurama's durability somehow was far weaker than it ever was, Naruto could levitate in his body, there's too many inconsistencies to take everything that happened there into account. Naruto going into SM in his subconscious, subsequently turning all the clones into SM, is in no way proof that Naruto can make 20 clones outside of his body all utilising SM without being overtaken by Nature energy. There's about 5 instances in the war arc where Naruto has used clones whilst in SM, and never did it exceed 2-3. There's literally no reason to believe that Naruto can handle more clones in SM than Minato can, not to mention Minato's reserves are superior to Jiraiya's since he was capable of being a perfect sage. Not being able to use 15 clones with ease has to be a joke. Each Minato clone has more than enough power to overcome a clone who lacks substantial Senutsu chakra. True, true. Matters naught, Minato was a perfect Sage, fought off Kurama and Obito, sealed the 9 Tails into himself and Naruto, and still had enough chakra to input his own chakra into Naruto's seal. Chakra is no issue for Minato. Alive Minato summoned Bunta, teleported Bunta and the Kyuubi, himself many times, Kushina, a TBB, fought Obito and used Rasengan, used contract seal/FTG seal, took Kyuubi's fingering, made a ritual for Naruto, sealed the Kyuubi into Naruto and himself, and still could input chakra into Naruto. Your way of undermining this is laughable, not to mention that Chakra and Stamina are directly proportional, you lose from one, you lose from the other. Thus Minato's stamina and chakra were affected, not only his chakra, whereas in this fight, the only thing he'll really require is his chakra and some stamina, seeing how he won't be fingered (
You must be registered for see images
) by Naruto. Yes, but how does that change anything? He still had the chakra quantitiy to make them, which people seem to not consider. Using Kage Bunshin Jutsu is more than simply splitting your chakra and then getting back your chakra, the jutsu itself has a heavy chakra exertion, hence when Naruto used many clones after Kurama handed him chakra for the Jukai Kotan, he was about to go poof. Similarly to Kakashi using Raiton Bunshin, he was at about half chakra by then. Yes, Naruto has more chakra, I know that very well. However, Pa clearly established limitations to SM usage, and that chakra needs to be sufficient enough for the SM to be utiliised. You can't seriously tell me that Naruto's chakra is so amazing that he can utilise SM without his control over it being flawed with 1/20th of his chakra, whereas Jiraiya can't control it without a flaw using all his chakra and Ma/Pa's help. I know he is a chakra beast, but come on.. Naruto with 1/20th of his chakra cannot replicate such, nor can he do what he did in his subconscious with 35'ish clones, not a chance.
AntonChigurh
Member
Sage Mode is ridiculously underrated here.
I guess Base Goku could beat SS Vegeta then too....
I guess Base Goku could beat SS Vegeta then too....
You must be registered for see images
Brother Numpsay
Active member
I remember this emote from a game website. Ogplanet. If you got it from the same place, what games did you play (or is currently playing)
Great Master Minato
Active member
Awards
Oh Yeah? Guess What? That Was Part 1 Neji & This Is Minato! There's A Very Huge Gap Of Strength & Skill Between These Two!
The Point That You Ignore Is Naruto's Clone Can't Even Touch Minato Before He Hit Them & They Disappear...Reason? Minato Is Way Faster Than Original Naruto Who Has Better Reaction Time Than His Clones...
Ok I'll Stop Posting Cause There's No Point In Arguing With You...You're Clearly In Denial...
Last edited:
Benjamin King
Banned
KidGamer65
Active member
Awards
If the amount of NE gathered exceeds the amount of chakra you have, it takes over, but when Naruto takes in NE, he makes Senjutsu Chakra, which he then splits evenly among his clones, thus each clone has the same Nature Energy to Normal Chakra Ratio Naruto did before he split himself, thus there is no reason that he'd get taken over.
@bold: That is obviously how it works. Naruto's clones are in Naruto's mind, the real Naruto took in Nature Energy, thus all extensions of himself inside his mind receive that energy, and thus enter Sage Mode. His continuous supply obviously was a continuous supply as the Naruto on the outside stayed still, thus he could continuously gather Nature Energy.
Naruto prepped all these clones while he was still in Sage Mode, yet he wasn't "taken over" by the NE, so there is no reason why your point holds any merit.
You must be registered for see links
Gonna need some evidence for why its not applicable, cause everything I've ever heard from the opposing side is weak. Naruto doing one thing in his mind that we know he can't do=/=Everything he did in his mind not being applicable.
Lol, this guy. Naruto made one the
You must be registered for see links
as Jiraiya's, in Base. If not larger. He casually uses
You must be registered for see links
and still has Senjutsu Chakra left. I pray to God that you aren't serious when you say Naruto has never shown such capabilities outside.Based on what? I hope you aren't using the Juubilaser feat, because blocking with your tails=/=taking a direct hit.
That is literally the only inconsistency.
Naruto was in Sage Mode, had his chakra split that many times, and still had enough to enter Sage Mode, so yes, it is proof. "In his mind" isn't a counter argument.
Because he didn't need them. Naruto has more chakra, thus he can handle more clones.
.
When was it said that being a Perfect Sage or not had to do with reserves? Jiraiya couldn't properly balance it, that's why he wasn't a perfect Sage.
Except I never said he can't use 15 clones, and "lacking substantial Senjutsu Chakra" Lol.
I didn't undermine anything, I'm just getting your facts straight. You are blowing Minato's chakra feats out of proportion. And by the time he was exhausted, he had used up his chakra, not his stamina. He used up most of his chakra teleporting Kurama, summoning Kurama, teleporting himself, Kushina, a Bijuu Dama, and a Rasengan. The ritual, and Kurama's attack are irrelevant as he was already panting BEFORE that stuff happened to him.
Y
Clones with little chakra can't fight effectively, that's how they change things.
Naruto's fight against Pain, and his fight against Kurama show that he can make many clones and still have a Sage Mode. The only counter I've seen for the feats in his mind isn't even a counter, its you disregarding everything based on one valid inconsistency.
Just like there is between Part 1 Naruto and SM Naruto? Your point.
I'm ignoring you completely cause you have no real argument.
Good. Get that retarded ass wank out of here.
No you don't get the point. Neji evaded every single one of those clones without getting hit once. You said earlier that if he hits a clone, he gets hit by the other clones and all I was doing was explaining to you why that won't really be the case. SM Naruto shouldn't best Minato in a CQC and his clones won't really change that. The KCM Naruto against V1 Ay who is far more superior to SM Naruto was at least getting punched around and bested in a CQQ against V1 Ay before showing his full speed. That V1 Ay is nothing to V2 Ay who was basically blitzed by Minato.
Not to mention that many clones resorting to Rasengan? Naruto used 2 Giant ball Rasengans, 1 FRS and 2 Rasengans and he ran out of SM. If they all rush him with that, he teleports away from them and that's chakra wasted or he can use the barrier while they rush to him and redirect them towards Naruto or themselves.
A kunai stab should definitely kill them. Considering Kakashi
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
kept taking that while SM Naruto's clone got dispelled by it
You must be registered for see links
A kunai tore through Hachibi's tentacles which tanked Bijuudama. Not to mention Minato has his clones which also use FTG alongside with a Kunai.
If he teleports away and catches Naruto off guard, I'm sure he'd be successful. Considering Naruto won't really be sensing him instantly (Considering it took sometime for him to start sensing Juubito due to his speed
You must be registered for see links
) and even if he does, that really doesn't give him the reactions in all cases. If he strikes first and Naruto doesn't react, I doubt Kata would be useful.
lol, What am I reading here KG65?
1. HM sensing = normal sensing, because normal sensor such as Karin have been able to sense and discern surroundings and not only people
2. Your point of Kage Bunshin is irrelevant as Naruto can get tagged at the start of the fight, and doesn't matter how many clones he makes, Minato will always strike the real body and thus kill him at one or two blows. If he guards himself with clones, Naruto gets teleported away from them and blitzed.
3. Ma and Pa are irrelevant because Naruto gets teleported away from them while they get blitzed and thus, his chakra gets depleted after time and so will his HM.
4. Kawazu Kumite is irrelevant, Minato knows of it and he dodges it before Naruto even can lift a finger, nothing suggests that Naruto can react to Minato when he uses Hiraishin.
Not even factoring HM, Minato wrecks in both scenarios. DA fed you with bull man.
1. HM sensing = normal sensing, because normal sensor such as Karin have been able to sense and discern surroundings and not only people
You must be registered for see links
. She also has a reach as far or even farther than Naruto's in HM. Minato will sense what Naruto senses in the dust cloud.2. Your point of Kage Bunshin is irrelevant as Naruto can get tagged at the start of the fight, and doesn't matter how many clones he makes, Minato will always strike the real body and thus kill him at one or two blows. If he guards himself with clones, Naruto gets teleported away from them and blitzed.
3. Ma and Pa are irrelevant because Naruto gets teleported away from them while they get blitzed and thus, his chakra gets depleted after time and so will his HM.
4. Kawazu Kumite is irrelevant, Minato knows of it and he dodges it before Naruto even can lift a finger, nothing suggests that Naruto can react to Minato when he uses Hiraishin.
Not even factoring HM, Minato wrecks in both scenarios. DA fed you with bull man.
Last edited:
KidGamer65
Active member
Awards
Inert Brian
Active member
Minato wins, all he has to do is spread his FTG kunais everywhere, Mark Naruto then slice him.
Minato was capable of dodging V2 Ay. V2 Ay > SM Naruto
SM Naruto beats Tobirama though.
Minato was capable of dodging V2 Ay. V2 Ay > SM Naruto
SM Naruto beats Tobirama though.
Gold Lightning
Active member
Inert Brian
Active member
If we're going off the basis that Tobirama only uses 1 Kunai for FTG, then he wins (considering it's the only way we've seen him fight). Minato only wins this fight because he spreads Kunais everywhere. SM Naruto dodges any attacks by Tobirama via sensing similar to SM Madara. He doesn't have that much to anticipate.
Tobirama can only win with GKF, other attacks either are too weak to break through Naruto's skin or require too much preparation time for Tobirama to actually land a hit. How is he going to land Suiton? It's already hard to surprise Naruto let alone land an actual attack.
Inert Brian
Active member
Gold Lightning
Active member
But Tobirama can make lots of clones too and can teleport via shadow clones.
Sm Naruto got blitzed by blind Madara. Sm Madara and sm Naruto are not in the same tier bracket. Madara's speed and reflexes are much greater. And Tobirama is the only one who actually put up any sort of fight against sm Madara (and this is after getting his Rinnegan back).
I sincerely doubt that Naruto can avoid an FTG slash blitz. He may be able to avoid a fatal slash/ deep wound by reacting in thhe nick of time. But I don't see him evading it completely, Madara can't be used as a comparison, since sm Naruto doesn't even compare to that level of Madara.
Inert Brian
Active member
River established above how Naruto broke Pain's rod when Deva tried to stab him with it. So Tobirama's Kunai won't work here.
It is a fact that Naruto can use two normal FRS before SM runs out. SM Naruto already used one massive FRS. Madara blitzed a drained Naruto.
If i'm not mistaken it was established FTG isn't as efficient with clones. Naruto counters with clones of his own.
Gold Lightning
Active member
-___-
Tobiramas speed>>>>>>>Pains speed
FTG slash(one of the fastest techniques in the manga)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pains slow ass rod strike. It's not even comparable.
It's not about being able to break anything, it's the fact that sm Naruto can't react to speed of that calibre. If he can't even react to Madara's foot speed, how's he gonna react to FTG slash?
The clones make up for the lack of kunai. FTG only isn't efficient when trying to use the goshun miwashi jutsu, it's slower than using with two separate FTG users. Tobirama can also use his clones as markers, and teleport between them since his chakra remains inside each of them.
No, Pa specifically said if you don't have the chakra quantity, you get taken over. It has nothing to do with balancing Senjutsu and chakra, not having enough chakra along means you are taken over, hence low chakra reserve shinobi cannot learn SM in the first place no matter how good their ability to balance Senjutsu is.
True.
You supported my point with that. Naruto creates many clones, and the two visible clones here [
You must be registered for see links
] are in SM. A few seconds pass and they have randomly lost their SM [
You must be registered for see links
]. Coincidence? Nope. So it's either Naruto passes on his NE to clones and they lose it faster than Minato can Hirashin, or Naruto's clones attempt to gather more NE in which they are taken over from. The only attributable reason as to why he wasn't taken over is because his NE quantity was so low.He cannot make this many clones maintaining SM.
Haha, my bad.
FRS terribly weakened Kurama, that's more than enough proof that he wasn't in full form, unless you are claiming the strongest entity in NV is supposed to be damaged by single jutsu when it can overpower villages. Just my take on it though.
And yes, along with Hachibi's inconsistencies and SM clones.
Doesn't apply, Pa disapproves and the Pain scenario disapproves.
The SM being maintained is still unsupported.
.
It is the likely case, since chakra quantity seems to be related to balancing the Senjutsu, thus having more chakra could suggest being able to balance the Senjutsu more fluidly.
Yes, the clones will lack substantial Senjutsu chakra as the Pain scenario demonstrated.
Pretty impressive to me either way. And no, stamina is directly proportional to chakra, so using up chakra is using up stamina and vice versa.
Yes, but now put someone with a far greater chakra reserve, quarter the number of clones, and you have a large number of sufficient clones.
Naruto's fight against Pain supports my argument, and the Kurama scenario being the sole decider of the entirety of this despite being inconsistent with the Pain scenario is highly doubtful. No, there are several inconsistencies imo.
Last edited: