SM Jiraiya vs Kakuzu

[shelke]

Kakuzu takes this mid-high difference.

- Any physical based attacks are rendered useless by his Domu that makes his body as hard as diamond. Jiraiya has done nothing of the sorts against a diamond. He can also fell Jiraiya's summons
in this mode because of his increased strength.

- Jiriya's swamp of the under world can be countered by getting out of the way and even using Raiton Gian to strike Jiraiya as this techniques incorporates two hand seals, and hence isn't as fast as instant techniques, and by seperating the masks from his body, Kakuzu can target Shima and Fukasaku as well.

- Jiriya's Goemon is easily countered by Katon: Zukokku in conjunction with Fūton: Atsugai as it not only increases the blast range but pushes away the target and causes damage to it as well.

- His toad oil bullet is countered to his disadvantage by Katon: Zukokku.

- His Rasangan is ineffective against Doton: Domu.

- Not to mention that his sage art is imperfect, and would last just as long - could be shorter - as Naruto's did and that is 5 minutes only.

 

[Crazy Wolf]

Jiraiya. He is more versatile then Kakuzu.

 

[Joki]

Will edit this post for counter soon, since I gotta go to work. And so far reading yu whole post shows a lot of lack of comprehension skills.

Coming soon.

Contributes literally nothing, drops an insult instead. EjBlack everybody.

Alright I'll be waiting, and for the umpteenth time stop projecting. Especially when you have nothing to bring to the table in the first place.

 

[shelke]

Chill out you two. Don't get your aprons in a bunch. Sheesh.

 

[Rike Senju]

Kakuzu takes this mid-high difference.

- Any physical based attacks are rendered useless by his Domu that makes his body as hard as diamond. Jiraiya has done nothing of the sorts against a diamond. He can also fell Jiraiya's summons
in this mode because of his increased strength.

- Jiriya's swamp of the under world can be countered by getting out of the way and even using Raiton Gian to strike Jiraiya as this techniques incorporates two hand seals, and hence isn't as fast as instant techniques, and by seperating the masks from his body, Kakuzu can target Shima and Fukasaku as well.

- Jiriya's Goemon is easily countered by Katon: Zukokku in conjunction with Fūton: Atsugai as it not only increases the blast range but pushes away the target and causes damage to it as well.

- His toad oil bullet is countered to his disadvantage by Katon: Zukokku.

- His Rasangan is ineffective against Doton: Domu.

- Not to mention that his sage art is imperfect, and would last just as long - could be shorter - as Naruto's did and that is 5 minutes only.

Last point is wrong..ma and pa are there to grant him unlimited SM by gathering natural energy for him..naruto wasn't able to merge with the toads because of kurama's presence therefore his SM only lasted 5 mins.

 

[Joki]

chill out you two. Don't get your aprons in a bunch. Sheesh.

wut, U CANT CONTROL ME

 

[The Immortal God]

there also is a possibility of a draw due to the fact that both are Kage level ninja that have preformed great feats

 

[shelke]

Last point is wrong..ma and pa are there to grant him unlimited SM by gathering natural energy for him..naruto wasn't able to merge with the toads because of kurama's presence therefore his SM only lasted 5 mins.

Thanks for the correction. I appreciate it. *****.

@Joki Okay. You don't have to get mad.

 

[Joki]

Thanks for the correction. I appreciate it. *****.

@Joki Okay. You don't have to get mad.

why you little...

HOW DARE YOU INSULT MY WILL AS A MAN, REPORTED FOR TELLING ME WUT TO DO

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Contributes literally nothing, drops an insult instead. EjBlack everybody.

Alright I'll be waiting, and for the umpteenth time stop projecting. Especially when you have nothing to bring to the table in the first place.

Either way, you can say "with Domu he's physically stronger and can tank all his attacks" all you want but you lack the actual proof. The only proof for Kakuzu's strength is punching down the iron gate which SM Jiraiya could do with ease, you have no other proof, i.e. you're going off pure speculation.

This is a matter of logic. Can J man physically damage something as hard as Diamond? Is there scans that show him destroying something that is harder then Diamond, to make a conclusion that it is obvious.

"Oh really? You don't think the DB are wrong, as quoted multiple times by you: "Show me where I said the DB was wrong", but now you don't think the DB is correct, even after using "hard as diamond" and Domu's DB entries multiple times? Don't contradict yourself, choose a side already and don't use double standards to support you in a debate."
Here we go again, putting words in my mouth to prove your self right. Now you are dodging the question by basing that I said "now DB is wrong", this is the fault you are doing again. Now answer the question that I said without adding your own interpretation, by claiming that "I now decided DB is wrong", and actually answer why you accusing me that I ever said is was wrong.

"I already read that post. You seem to be missing the point, I don't think Kakuzu's body turns brittle like a diamond, I've never said that once. You're ignoring its mountain busting capabiilities, Tsunade's punches tore through ribcage Susano'o with ease and Odama rasengan's impact is similar to a meteorite What?. It seems to me that you don't exactly know how rasengan works, but either version of rasengan gets through Kakuzu's armor, you haven't proven otherwise by posting scans of him tanking exploding tags and Choji's spiked bullet . I hope you know how vastly inferior those techniques are to a massive rasengan 100s of times bigger than this:"
I didn't ignore I made a counter response, it seems you are skimming through my post because you a clearly saying I am ignoring them. Go back and read my post without skimming through, to summarize Diamond is harder then a mountain. Claiming that it makes a hole on a mountain doesn't give it the same result on something that is completely harder then a mountain. (I also showed him tanking a Buijuu too) What I post that even a Bujuu, Spiked Choji that craters the ground, and Explosions doesn't show results of damaging Diamond skin. What does Tsunade and Sassano have to do with J man. Tsunade is stronger then J man and Sassano is a completely different defense then Domu Domu. It was never said that Sasano is as hard as Diamond.

"You don't hjave a panel of Kakuzu using any technique anywhere near that level, or any water technique at all? I didn't think you did, of course I won't accept that post filled with fanfiction and literal pure speculation. Allow me to bold some points in the DB entry. Within an instant, that place will be filled with oil burning at temperatures of thousands of degrees. Kakuzu will melt to death, surely you will not deny such an obvious thing."
You do know that kakuzu tech was Zoomed out to view the whole attack right? I already said that this was a logical approach more then feats, idk why .while Goemon has show to be in direct contact with Pretra Path (This shows that size attack comparing to Preta Path size)? So yes it is the same size if it was zoomed in (Or possible larger). No need to project because of me making such claim. Don't have to accept this.

Off Topic question: We know he has five heart right? The explained that each of the hearts contains affinities. Answer this question, can you make a logical conclusion that Kakuzu has water as the 5th affinity, that was shown destroyed in the manga? Or do you refuse to leave it as featless Mask forever. Please answer this logically.

EDIT!!!!:

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This isn't speculation anymore.




"He's going to use chakra to stand on a boiling lake of thousands of degrees that disintegrates everything it comes into contact with? Haha, okay, I hope Kakuzu likes melting from the feet up when he tries standing on it."
Pretra was shown to be able to move a step and counter. Kakuzu pushing it with wind delays the attack from hitting Kakuzu.

"Your only response for it? And what happens once Kakuzu's lightning mask dies or gets "submerged completely" under the swamp? It's not going to be using any jutsu. I enjoy ignoring my scan, quite black, although I expected you to ignore more things you can't counter:"
Well of course I wouldn't imply that Lightenng Mask jumps out of the Kakuzu's body and decides to share the same fate. Try actually finding a better way of comprehending what I am post instead of resulting that "I come to agree that Joki post shows that everything cannot be counter. And therefore I will post scans scans that can counter but fail." You want to read it that the counters I post needs to fit in, in your personal conclusion in order for it to be right. So let me clarify my post again. Earth release is weaker then Lightening. The Mask has shown that it doesn't need to be out of the body to use it's jutsu's. Shooting it with is element weakness loses it ability to serve the jutsu's purpose. Also this thread shows relevents of this tech, because bringing this up seems to claim that this move 1 hit K.O all characters in NV once you are caught:

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.

"4 attacks? Because Jiraiya has dozens to adapt to situations, and fortunately Ino and co have avoided his attacks at times. And not only that but once Kakuzu's masks slowly die in battle, he can't continue using all 4 of his jutsu. This is what ALL Kakuzu fans are oblivious to and fail to realize. Guess what, Kakuzu doesn't have access to all of his jutsu as long as he's alive! He's dependent on his masks, which were destroyed by weak attacks like Asuma's fuuton(OR Tenten's fuuton which shouldn't make a difference) and Choji's palm smash. Once Jiraiya destroys the independent masks? Kakuzu's down a jutsu, and has even less of a way to put Jiraiya down."

The thing is about the situation Ino and co is that Kakuzu result to demonstrate his power against them, thus standing shooting all his tech in the same spot, without moving an inch. This is not the case in a 1v1 battle were they can choose where ever he wants to shoot his attacks. Explain to me how Asuma's attacks are weak? Ten ten doesn't have elemental jutsu but do explain to me what makes the Sage's weapon fodder? The Mask keep their distance and fire away with their attacks, if they are in result of danger they can go back to base

"You did say that, problem is, you haven't proved it not by a looong shot. What if I said Jiraiya can casually destroy universes by processing a thought? Saying stuff doesn't make it fact but that's rather obvious."
Right then the obvious conclusion is to say J man cannot physically break something as hard as Diamond

"Kakuzu's not overlooked by me, unfortunately he's going up against someone who does seem to be overlooked by YOU, and is simply completely out of his league and can counter all of his techniques perfectly as proven on panel. You would be in denial or not taking into account all of the facts to say otherwise."

So you admit Kakuzu would actually lose? Why are you debating me if you admit he's the weaker one of the two?"
Adds in my post to prove right again

"No, all your rambling/theorizing doesn't hold any water at all. I recall earlier you just said "the manga cannot be wrong", and the manga shows Choji and Asuma clearly destroying hearts with their weak attacks on panel. If you don't think they are "fodder" techniques then fine, I won't call them fodder, but in comparison to Jiraiya's techs which are on a whole other level, then they are weak and Jiraiya will be able to replicate their destruction with ease."

No this is a simple commentary on what happen in the manga, of Hidan and Kakuzu vs Team 10/Kakashi. Joki till this day you are by yourself to think Choji destroyed the Mask. This is where you have fall in comprehension reading. You should make a vouch thread on people who will actually agreeing in interpreting this way. You are stuck in the fact that since the picture shows Choji smashing the Mask, this means that he has destroy the Mask. This is where I will destroy this thinking of yours:

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This is the first death of Kakuzu during the battle against team 10/Kakashi. Kakashi destroys Kakuzu's heart by litteraly punching right through

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Then Kakuzu lives again:

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http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Naruto/334%20-%20The%20Black%20Transformation%E2%80%A6!!%20/ch334_UK_Page_05.png[/IMG]

Kakashi says he is clear that he didn't miss, As for us readers it is obvious that he didn't, after viewing my first scan

The results of Kakashi's attack

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It looks like kakashi destroyed the Mask face plus Kakuzu's heart, but that is not the case.Saying the hearts is placed in the same direction where the Mask's mouth fire it's attack, is illogical dissension to conclude. Especially when that broken Mask was standing for a while

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After this Kakuzu reattached his body again

Then How?Well lets read how Kakashi and Shiki explains, then Kakuzu tells them they got it right

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The heart are able to move in a location of the body, the Mask was the sacrifice to let Kakuzu live again. Now this leaves this team to kill him four more times. Let's read what happened to his other deaths. Next:

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Here is where you are having trouble reading, Kakuzu is dead again and in order for him to live he NEEDS a HEART, just like what the manga said. You need to keep him 5 times. So far 1 Mask from Kakashi and 1 is Kakuzu's from Hidan, 5-2=3. Now it is time for the last three remaining Mask to revive Kakuzu. Fire+Wind (Since they were merged together) and Lightning. This is their attempt to save Kakuzu:

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Choji smiles because he thought he caught destroyed the two (Fire+Wind and Lightening).

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The Masks Emerges from the smoke and is back to restore Kakuzu. Now inorder for Kakuzu to live he needs a heart. Since we cannot say he took the Fire or Wind, because it was already in use to fight Naruto/Team 10/Kakashi, it is obvious that he used the lightening hearts Mask.

This leaves Kakuzu with a heart again and Fire+Wind combo, three heart left. 4-1=3(Kakuzu 1 and Mask 2, as you see in the manga).

Kakuzu says this:

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BUT Kakuzu, didn't Choji destroyed the Lightening Mask/Heart??! No only someone with lack of reading compensation would apply that. Here it is again. Kakashi killed 1, Hidan killed 1. 5-2=3(Kakuzu 1, Mask 2). Next kill:

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Naruto wind attack hits opened-up Kakuzu

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2 Mask being broken down imply that Naruto destroyed 2 Masked. So far 3-2=1. Next:

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Kakashi goes to kakuzu's body because he knows he is not dead yet (1 heart left). Kakuzu talks to Kakashi in this scene.

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Kakuzu, unable to move because of Naruto wind attack breaking his cells, and thus Kakashi ending the last heart. 1-1=0.


I really did not want to go out of my way and guide you on how to read the manga but you had thought that you were right since (Whatever how long the Kakuzu>Kisame thread was, or possible longer) whenever.

Now for the Asuma incident I suggest to carefully read my post again, it will help you understand that it was the Sage's weapon that did it, and backed up with 3 extra manga scans. I do not want to write something like this again.

Yes J man needs to destroy 4 Mask and Kakuzu in order to win this Match. The Mask are not indestructible, they can be destroyed, but what I am trying to say that it is not a simple task to do it. This is where we keep fighting about so let's end THIS part of the argument because it will only lead to Easy>Not Easy to Easy<Not Easy argument over and over again. Lets just agree to disagree from this.

"It's not a confusion black. You're still doing it. I say something like "Cho Odama Rasengan can hollow out a mountain" then you respond with "but Kakuzu's body is as hard as diamond, here's a scan of him tanking a tiny paper bomb". It doesn't work that way, quality>>>the quantity of random scans. Posting any scan in the manga doesn't mean you're doing good."
You mean Buijuu, Choji's attack, and bombs is not convincing enough? since you want strictly DB on this one (Try not to interpret of me claiming no DB/irrelevance) , I will post DB to show that Domu>Moutain:

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I remember you mention that he cannot move. But I shown you a page of him getting up. I would agree that he can't run with it, at best. The scan I showed him getting up from a crater attack still shows he can be mobile. Anyway by DB Domu>Hollowing a Mountain.

"It CAN pierce, but unfortunately there are multiple other panels of the exact thing you posted NOT working, and furthermore the one panel you had to resort to happened off panel. That argument is lost."
This sentence is not clear. What multiple panels that I showed, shows not working on SM skin? What was the last scan panel I showed happens off panel to explain what you are talking about?

"Try again, I left my post in quotes right above yours just now. You ignored the entire paragraph. And no, just saying "by DB domu tanks the attacks" doesn't make it true, you should actually respond to my paragraph."
OK but I post Buijuu's, Choji's attack, and Explsions (manga scans) WITH an additional of DB saying. And all you post was DB. Now you are telling yours is more legit

In the meantime, by DB, Jiraiya can easily destroy universes, and the DB even has written in Jiraiya's profile, "in a fight, Jiraiya would stomp Kakuzu no diff"."
I asked to help me out here /sarcasm you are not being serious, but this one was a bit obvious

"You know 2 techniques can look similar right? It's clearly coming from off panel, but regardless of which one did the destroying they're weaker than Jiraiya's attacks by far. Also by talking about me denying the anime part you seemed to have also yet again ignored the entire rest of the paragraph that had nothing to do with whatever anime I denied. You should try reading that before reiterating yourself on the "manga scans" that I already countered in the same paragraph you ignored."
I am going to assume you did not read the entire post which I ask politely to do before claiming I missed this or that out. But as I said earlier lets agree to disagree of Mask Easy kill>Mask not Easy kill or vice versa argument it will be a circular argument that is unnecessary, since we both want to write less to get our points across.

"Like I said, that's circular logic. "Kakuzu has a lot of chakra, because Kakuzu used these elemental jutsu which take up a lot of chakra, I know they take up a lot of chakra because Kakuzu used them, and Kakuzu has a lot of chakra." That doesn't ACTUALLY "proof" that "Kakuzu's chakra won't be a problem" or that it's anywhere near comparable with Jman."
Ma and PA sitting on him gives him constant natural energy. You are trying to push my arugment to say that I am implying Kakuzu has more charka/ same. What I want to show you that their is no proof that Kakuzu lacks chakra. This wouldn't be a battle where whoever loses chakra first wins. IF you don't accept it, It doesn't matter because you cannot proof that he infact does lack chakra.

"Try countering the reaction scans in my first post then it will bring it back up. Too bad Kakuzu has virtually no reaction feats whatsoever and Jiraiya actually does. Although the same can be said for basically every other category including the many many which you admitted Kakuzu's inferiority."
Lol at many many= two things. Indeed Kakuzu has little screen time but they are scans though that could even it out.

First: Kakuzu already realize being creeped from behind and waited for it to actually attack:

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Just a question, do you think SM j man can out run a throwing Kunai? Anyway:

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Another question how fast do you think Shadow possession moves?
Kakuzu dodges Shadow and reacts to Kakashi going for a speed blitz:

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(Sliding part is where he reacted to Kakashi jumping in)

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What makes him better? Kakuzu is better in showing reaction in back stabs then J man, also better in reacting to fighting multiple people in front of him. Here is here J man lacks reaction when fighting multiple people:

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J man gets yelled at for not reacting:

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[Joki]

Either way, you can say "with Domu he's physically stronger and can tank all his attacks" all you want but you lack the actual proof. The only proof for Kakuzu's strength is punching down the iron gate which SM Jiraiya could do with ease, you have no other proof, i.e. you're going off pure speculation.

This is a matter of logic. Can J man physically damage something as hard as Diamond? Is there scans that show him destroying something that is harder then Diamond, to make a conclusion that it is obvious.
YES, There is! You're ignoring them. Don't do that, and you'll see who the real winner is.

"Oh really? You don't think the DB are wrong, as quoted multiple times by you: "Show me where I said the DB was wrong", but now you don't think the DB is correct, even after using "hard as diamond" and Domu's DB entries multiple times? Don't contradict yourself, choose a side already and don't use double standards to support you in a debate."
Here we go again, putting words in my mouth to prove your self right. Now you are dodging the question by basing that I said "now DB is wrong", this is the fault you are doing again. Now answer the question that I said without adding your own interpretation, by claiming that "I now decided DB is wrong", and actually answer why you accusing me that I ever said is was wrong.
I'll leave my previous posts in the quotes from now on so anyone with a brain reading will see the clear avoiding topic or contradiction in your posts. Here you ramble on about literally nothing important and don't address anything in my original post. Do you accept the DB or do you not? Make up your mind. I point out that you accept the DB and you say "wait , post where I said I agree with the DB" despite the fact you're USING DB scans. Then when I say "Fine, if you don't accept DB, you must be against it despite the fact you're using scans" "lol no i never said I was against DB post where I said that". You cannot do that, even you know how completely bullshit that is.

"I already read that post. You seem to be missing the point, I don't think Kakuzu's body turns brittle like a diamond, I've never said that once. You're ignoring its mountain busting capabiilities, Tsunade's punches tore through ribcage Susano'o with ease and Odama rasengan's impact is similar to a meteorite What?. It seems to me that you don't exactly know how rasengan works, but either version of rasengan gets through Kakuzu's armor, you haven't proven otherwise by posting scans of him tanking exploding tags and Choji's spiked bullet . I hope you know how vastly inferior those techniques are to a massive rasengan 100s of times bigger than this:"
I didn't ignore I made a counter response, it seems you are skimming through my post because you a clearly saying I am ignoring them. Go back and read my post without skimming through, to summarize Diamond is harder then a mountain. Claiming that it makes a hole on a mountain doesn't give it the same result on something that is completely harder then a mountain. (I also showed him tanking a Buijuu too)
How am I skimming? I'm actually responding to every point in your posts unlike yourself, even the irrelevant crap like posting a random Kakuzu scan that has nothing to do with the argument I respond to. That's not skimming, that's reading everything in detail. If anything you're skimming my posts.

What I post that even a Bujuu, Spiked Choji that craters the ground, and Explosions doesn't show results of damaging Diamond skin. What does Tsunade and Sassano have to do with J man. Tsunade is stronger then J man and Sassano is a completely different defense then Domu Domu. It was never said that Sasano is as hard as Diamond.
Everything you listed Jiraiya is superior in. Literally everything. So you're trying to claim shit like Susano'o is weaker than Domu? If so I'm negging you and not continuing to post any more if you go to that length so you don't have to admit you're wrong. Tsunade PHYSICALLY stronger than Jman? Possibly, since when are her punches stronger than a massive sage enhanced rasengan that can blow up a mountain? They aren't? By the gods, incredible. And her punches ripped through Susano'o. That can only mean one thing. Yep, Jiraiya wins.

"You don't hjave a panel of Kakuzu using any technique anywhere near that level, or any water technique at all? I didn't think you did, of course I won't accept that post filled with fanfiction and literal pure speculation. Allow me to bold some points in the DB entry. Within an instant, that place will be filled with oil burning at temperatures of thousands of degrees. Kakuzu will melt to death, surely you will not deny such an obvious thing."
You do know that kakuzu tech was Zoomed out to view the whole attack right? I already said that this was a logical approach more then feats, idk why .while Goemon has show to be in direct contact with Pretra Path (This shows that size attack comparing to Preta Path size)? So yes it is the same size if it was zoomed in (Or possible larger). No need to project because of me making such claim. Don't have to accept this.
You have literally nothing else eh? Right. He can't counter Goemon, I'm glad you agreed. >WITHIN AN INSTANT >OIL BURNING AT TEMPERATURES OF THOUSANDS OF DEGREES /thread

Off Topic question: We know he has five heart right? The explained that each of the hearts contains affinities. Answer this question, can you make a logical conclusion that Kakuzu has water as the 5th affinity, that was shown destroyed in the manga? Or do you refuse to leave it as featless Mask forever. Please answer this logically.

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This isn't speculation anymore.
Who said it didn't have water? We haven't seen shit for it on panel, meanwhile you're speculating this unknown jutsu to counter one of Jmans most impressive techniques that can spew burning oil that melts anything it comes into contact with instantly with thousands of degree temperatures with fuuton+katon AND oil to fuel the flames AND sage enhanced ninjutsu? Hell no I won't accept that! We don't even know if it's a water gun or a god level suiton that solos Kisame and Tobirama at the same time. That's why using fanfiction doesn't work. Jiraiya wins again, you reinforced that a lot.

"He's going to use chakra to stand on a boiling lake of thousands of degrees that disintegrates everything it comes into contact with? Haha, okay, I hope Kakuzu likes melting from the feet up when he tries standing on it."
Pretra was shown to be able to move a step and counter. Kakuzu pushing it with wind delays the attack from hitting Kakuzu.
Does Kakuzu have a bubble surrounding him that absorbs all ninjutsu that touches it? No? Very well, he can't come into contact with a burning lake of thousands of degrees then, don't bullshit me black.

"Your only response for it? And what happens once Kakuzu's lightning mask dies or gets "submerged completely" under the swamp? It's not going to be using any jutsu. I enjoy ignoring my scan, quite black, although I expected you to ignore more things you can't counter:"
Well of course I wouldn't imply that Lightenng Mask jumps out of the Kakuzu's body and decides to share the same fate. Try actually finding a better way of comprehending what I am post instead of resulting that "I come to agree that Joki post shows that everything cannot be counter. And therefore I will post scans scans that can counter but fail." You want to read it that the counters I post needs to fit in, in your personal conclusion in order for it to be right. So let me clarify my post again. Earth release is weaker then Lightening. The Mask has shown that it doesn't need to be out of the body to use it's jutsu's. Shooting it with is element weakness loses it ability to serve the jutsu's purpose. Also this thread shows relevents of this tech, because bringing this up seems to claim that this move 1 hit K.O all characters in NV once you are caught:

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.
Guess what, when Kakuzu loses a heart it doesn't matter if it's inside his body or dying to fodder jutsu meters away. He still loses a heart, and in turn, one of his VERY FEW "amazing" jutsu that you're hyping up to Sage Mode level for no good reason. Once he gets hit he loses a jutsu and a life. For good.

"4 attacks? Because Jiraiya has dozens to adapt to situations, and fortunately Ino and co have avoided his attacks at times. And not only that but once Kakuzu's masks slowly die in battle, he can't continue using all 4 of his jutsu. This is what ALL Kakuzu fans are oblivious to and fail to realize. Guess what, Kakuzu doesn't have access to all of his jutsu as long as he's alive! He's dependent on his masks, which were destroyed by weak attacks like Asuma's fuuton(OR Tenten's fuuton which shouldn't make a difference) and Choji's palm smash. Once Jiraiya destroys the independent masks? Kakuzu's down a jutsu, and has even less of a way to put Jiraiya down."
The thing is about the situation Ino and co is that Kakuzu result to demonstrate his power against them, thus standing shooting all his tech in the same spot, without moving an inch. This is not the case in a 1v1 battle were they can choose where ever he wants to shoot his attacks. Explain to me how Asuma's attacks are weak? Ten ten doesn't have elemental jutsu but do explain to me what makes the Sage's weapon fodder? The Mask keep their distance and fire away with their attacks, if they are in result of danger they can go back to base
Really, if Kishi was writing it that way I sure as hell didn't see it. Kakuzu was fighting seriously against them, it's not Ino's fault his jutsu were long range and they were far enough they could just jump to avoid. Rather than you know...countering all of them with vastly superior Sage Mode enhanced ninjutsu on a completely different level.

When did I say Asuma's attacks were weak? Maybe they're not weak, but regardless he still destroyed a mask. And Jiraiya's jutsu make Asuma's look like crap in comparison, so yes when compared to high kage level sage mode jutsus they ARE weak. I'd love to see you write another desperate fanfic to prove that wrong.

"You did say that, problem is, you haven't proved it not by a looong shot. What if I said Jiraiya can casually destroy universes by processing a thought? Saying stuff doesn't make it fact but that's rather obvious."
Right then the obvious conclusion is to say J man cannot physically break something as hard as Diamond
Despite the fact he destroys universes with his mind? Universes>Diamond black, to see you go to this level, I am disappointed. Wait, you mean Jiraiya can't destroy universes? Of course he can, it's in the databook. Prove me wrong.

"No, all your rambling/theorizing doesn't hold any water at all. I recall earlier you just said "the manga cannot be wrong", and the manga shows Choji and Asuma clearly destroying hearts with their weak attacks on panel. If you don't think they are "fodder" techniques then fine, I won't call them fodder, but in comparison to Jiraiya's techs which are on a whole other level, then they are weak and Jiraiya will be able to replicate their destruction with ease."
No this is a simple commentary on what happen in the manga, of Hidan and Kakuzu vs Team 10/Kakashi. Joki till this day you are by yourself to think Choji destroyed the Mask. This is where you have fall in comprehension reading. You should make a vouch thread on people who will actually agreeing in interpreting this way. You are stuck in the fact that since the picture shows Choji smashing the Mask, this means that he has destroy the Mask. This is where I will destroy this thinking of yours:

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This is the first death of Kakuzu during the battle against team 10/Kakashi. Kakashi destroys Kakuzu's heart by litteraly punching right through

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Then Kakuzu lives again:

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http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Naruto/334%20-%20The%20Black%20Transformation%E2%80%A6!!%20/ch334_UK_Page_05.png[/IMG]
Kakashi says he is clear that he didn't miss, As for us readers it is obvious that he didn't, after viewing my first scan
The results of Kakashi's attack

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It looks like kakashi destroyed the Mask face plus Kakuzu's heart, but that is not the case. Saying the hearts is placed in the same direction where the Mask's mouth fire it's attack, is illogical dissension to conclude. Especially when that broken Mask was standing for a while

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After this Kakuzu reattached his body again
Then How?Well lets read how Kakashi and Shiki explains, then Kakuzu tells them they got it right

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The heart are able to move in a location of the body, the Mask was the sacrifice to let Kakuzu live again. Now this leaves this team to kill him four more times. Let's read what happened to his other deaths. Next:

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Here is where you are having trouble reading, Kakuzu is dead again and in order for him to live he NEEDS a HEART, just like what the manga said. You need to keep him 5 times. So far 1 Mask from Kakashi and 1 is Kakuzu's from Hidan, 5-2=3. Now it is time for the last three remaining Mask to revive Kakuzu. Fire+Wind (Since they were merged together) and Lightning. This is their attempt to save Kakuzu:

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Choji smiles because he thought he caught destroyed the two (Fire+Wind and Lightening).

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The Masks Emerges from the smoke and is back to restore Kakuzu. Now inorder for Kakuzu to live he needs a heart. Since we cannot say he took the Fire or Wind, because it was already in use to fight Naruto/Team 10/Kakashi, it is obvious that he used the lightening hearts Mask.

This leaves Kakuzu with a heart again and Fire+Wind combo, three heart left. 4-1=3(Kakuzu 1 and Mask 2, as you see in the manga).

Kakuzu says this:

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BUT Kakuzu, didn't Choji destroyed the Lightening Mask/Heart??! No only someone with lack of reading compensation would apply that. Here it is again. Kakashi killed 1, Hidan killed 1. 5-2=3(Kakuzu 1, Mask 2). Next kill:

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Naruto wind attack hits opened-up Kakuzu

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2 Mask being broken down imply that Naruto destroyed 2 Masked. So far 3-2=1. Next:

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Kakashi goes to kakuzu's body because he knows he is not dead yet (1 heart left). Kakuzu talks to Kakashi in this scene.

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Kakuzu, unable to move because of Naruto wind attack breaking his cells, and thus Kakashi ending the last heart. 1-1=0.


I really did not want to go out of my way and guide you on how to read the manga but you had thought that you were right since (Whatever how long the Kakuzu>Kisame thread was, or possible longer) whenever.
You're getting REALLY desperate for proving this wrong, aren't you? None of those scans showed what was so "clear" to you on panel, try again. It looks like you're not up to accepting Choji destroying one of his masks, because in turn that would equal Kakuzu's obvious(if it isn't obvious already) defeat.
Now for the Asuma incident I suggest to carefully read my post again, it will help you understand that it was the Sage's weapon that did it, and backed up with 3 extra manga scans. I do not want to write something like this again.
You can believe whatever you want, Jiraiya's jutsu make both Asuma's and Tenten's wind jutsu look like trash. Doesn't matter which one it is, they both produced the same result on panel. X wind jutsu that easily destroyed Kakuzu's mask<<<<<<<<<<<<a large majority of Jiraiya's arsenal. Deal with it.

Yes J man needs to destroy 4 Mask and Kakuzu in order to win this Match. The Mask are not indestructible, they can be destroyed, but what I am trying to say that it is not a simple task to do it. This is where we keep fighting about so let's end THIS part of the argument because it will only lead to Easy>Not Easy to Easy<Not Easy argument over and over again. Lets just agree to disagree from this.
Ok, glad you admitted Kakuzu isn't invincible and Jiraiya can destroy all of his hearts. "Not an easy task", literally implies you know damn well yourself that Jiraiya wins. So thanks.

"It's not a confusion black. You're still doing it. I say something like "Cho Odama Rasengan can hollow out a mountain" then you respond with "but Kakuzu's body is as hard as diamond, here's a scan of him tanking a tiny paper bomb". It doesn't work that way, quality>>>the quantity of random scans. Posting any scan in the manga doesn't mean you're doing good."
You mean Buijuu, Choji's attack, and bombs is not convincing enough? since you want strictly DB on this one (Try not to interpret of me claiming no DB/irrelevance) , I will post DB to show that Domu>Moutain:

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I remember you mention that he cannot move. But I shown you a page of him getting up. I would agree that he can't run with it, at best. The scan I showed him getting up from a crater attack still shows he can be mobile. Anyway by DB Domu>Hollowing a Mountain.
Bolded this to show how ridiculous your claims are. Do I even need to address this bullshit? It's quite obvious you're desperate now, there's literally no way anyone in their right mind would claim Domu could tank a mountain buster. I should have negged you and not posted originally, given you said Hidan could take a mountain buster too at one point.

"It CAN pierce, but unfortunately there are multiple other panels of the exact thing you posted NOT working, and furthermore the one panel you had to resort to happened off panel. That argument is lost."
This sentence is not clear. What multiple panels that I showed, shows not working on SM skin? What was the last scan panel I showed happens off panel to explain what you are talking about?
The one you ignored about Jiraiya being smashed through meters of concrete and not being scratched in the slightest. And the one where it broke on Naruto's skin on multiple occasions. The one you DID post was OFF PANEL and when Naruto stabbed HIMSELF, you've lost.

"Try again, I left my post in quotes right above yours just now. You ignored the entire paragraph. And no, just saying "by DB domu tanks the attacks" doesn't make it true, you should actually respond to my paragraph."
OK but I post Buijuu's, Choji's attack, and Explsions (manga scans) WITH an additional of DB saying. And all you post was DB. Now you are telling yours is more legit
Your scans are just proving me right more and more, look back at my original scans and the DB entries of "MOUNTAIN HOLLOWER", "METEORITE IMPACT", "THOUSANDS OF DEGREES", etc etc etc etc and tell me what exactly about Jiraiya was proven wrong. Go ahead, tell me what exactly you proved wrong and how this debate advanced any further in your favor? You're telling me the exact opposite happens and you've dropped multiple arguments and ignored multiple points that defeated your arguments? I thought so.

That's that, in case you didn't know, when your arguments get destroyed that means you lost. It doesn't mean spam unrelated scans over and over because you're butthurt that you were proven wrong and you don't want to admit it.


In the meantime, by DB, Jiraiya can easily destroy universes, and the DB even has written in Jiraiya's profile, "in a fight, Jiraiya would stomp Kakuzu no diff"."
I asked to help me out here /sarcasm you are not being serious, but this one was a bit obvious
You can't point out in the DB where it didn't say that? It's obvious you're totally in denial, it's clearly in the DB.

"You know 2 techniques can look similar right? It's clearly coming from off panel, but regardless of which one did the destroying they're weaker than Jiraiya's attacks by far. Also by talking about me denying the anime part you seemed to have also yet again ignored the entire rest of the paragraph that had nothing to do with whatever anime I denied. You should try reading that before reiterating yourself on the "manga scans" that I already countered in the same paragraph you ignored."
I am going to assume you did not read the entire post which I ask politely to do before claiming I missed this or that out. But as I said earlier lets agree to disagree of Mask Easy kill>Mask not Easy kill or vice versa argument it will be a circular argument that is unnecessary, since we both want to write less to get our points across.
Well don't assume then. I did.

"Like I said, that's circular logic. "Kakuzu has a lot of chakra, because Kakuzu used these elemental jutsu which take up a lot of chakra, I know they take up a lot of chakra because Kakuzu used them, and Kakuzu has a lot of chakra." That doesn't ACTUALLY "proof" that "Kakuzu's chakra won't be a problem" or that it's anywhere near comparable with Jman."
Ma and PA sitting on him gives him constant natural energy. You are trying to push my arugment to say that I am implying Kakuzu has more charka/ same. What I want to show you that their is no proof that Kakuzu lacks chakra. This wouldn't be a battle where whoever loses chakra first wins. IF you don't accept it, It doesn't matter because you cannot proof that he infact does lack chakra.
"No proof that Kakuzu lacks chakra" is not the same as "Kakuzu has enough chakra to last in a battle with a sage mode user who walked away from a pain fight without a single scratch or hint of exhaustion" and the other wild things you're claiming chakra wise.

"Try countering the reaction scans in my first post then it will bring it back up. Too bad Kakuzu has virtually no reaction feats whatsoever and Jiraiya actually does. Although the same can be said for basically every other category including the many many which you admitted Kakuzu's inferiority."
Lol at many many= two things. Indeed Kakuzu has little screen time but they are scans though that could even it out.
And the plenty of little things you outright ignore that happened on panel, such as Yomi Numa dwarfing an entire massive boss summon and being called a small swamp. Or the PLENTY of other things that I haven't even seen a response to. Meaning that, in your reply, you erased that part of the post, ignoring it completely, because you couldn't respond to it. I hope you know that I can use Ctrl+F, you're not fooling me, that's why you lost.

First: Kakuzu already realize being creeped from behind and waited for it to actually attack:

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Seeing something behind you is not reaction speed, I hope you understand what that means. But by that logic Jiraiya has a gigantic sensing barrier.
Just a question, do you think SM j man can out run a throwing Kunai? Anyway:

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Uhh..Yeah, Konohamaru could probably do that.
Another question how fast do you think Shadow possession moves?
Slow enough that Hidan, the slowest Akatsuki member could avoid them effortlessly while fighting Asuma at the same time.
Kakuzu dodges Shadow and reacts to Kakashi going for a speed blitz:

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(Sliding part is where he reacted to Kakashi jumping in)

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What makes him better? Kakuzu is better in showing reaction in back stabs then J man, also better in reacting to fighting multiple people in front of him. Here is here J man lacks reaction when fighting multiple people:

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J man gets yelled at for not reacting:

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I think you're forgetting about the massive car sized rasengan that Kakuzu has no actual counter for. And the part where Shima and Fukasaku actually reacted. Oh and the part where Pain if by FAR faster than Kakuzu in literally every way. There's more obvious factors too, but hell you're going to need the generosity.

10char

 

[Bogard]

Is it me or i accidentally voted for Kakuzu? Jiraya would obviously win but not in base. He must enter SM for that

 

[Brother Numpsay]

10char

I have read your whole post and I am very disapointed that thought you would be a person that can reason when having a discussion but you are not even close, thanks for wasting time to find an actual clean conclusion then resulting in intolerance post

"YES, There is! You're ignoring them. Don't do that, and you'll see who the real winner is."

I didn't ignore them you post nothing that J man has to break something as hard as Diamond. You claim I'm not posting relevance and yet you are doing it

"'ll leave my previous posts in the quotes from now on so anyone with a brain reading will see the clear avoiding topic or contradiction in your posts. Here you ramble on about literally nothing important and don't address anything in my original post. Do you accept the DB or do you not? Make up your mind. I point out that you accept the DB and you say "wait , post where I said I agree with the DB" despite the fact you're USING DB scans. Then when I say "Fine, if you don't accept DB, you must be against it despite the fact you're using scans" "lol no i never said I was against DB post where I said that". You cannot do that, even you know how completely bullshit that is."

Show me where I EVER DISAGREE,you put in quotation marks, (what post number was this):"wait , post where I said I agree with the DB"<----Where did I say that

"Everything you listed Jiraiya is superior in. Literally everything. So you're trying to claim shit like Susano'o is weaker than Domu? If so I'm negging you and not continuing to post any more if you go to that length so you don't have to admit you're wrong. Tsunade PHYSICALLY stronger than Jman? Possibly, since when are her punches stronger than a massive sage enhanced rasengan that can blow up a mountain? They aren't? By the gods, incredible. And her punches ripped through Susano'o. That can only mean one thing. Yep, Jiraiya wins."

Put words in my mouth to prove right. again. Having more durability doesn't result of it being better all around as a whole. If Tsunade's fist was the same size as the Rasengan then of course she can do it too. Susano was never implied that it is harder then Diamond. A mountain is not harder then a diamond and Sasano is not harder then a diamond. Making this conclusion still doesn't help unless these things are at least as hard as a diamond.

"You have literally nothing else eh? Right. He can't counter Goemon, I'm glad you agreed. >WITHIN AN INSTANT >OIL BURNING AT TEMPERATURES OF THOUSANDS OF DEGREES /thread"
I already told you Water+Wind. I added that the size>size argument.

"Who said it didn't have water? We haven't seen shit for it on panel, meanwhile you're speculating this unknown jutsu to counter one of Jmans most impressive techniques that can spew burning oil that melts anything it comes into contact with instantly with thousands of degree temperatures with fuuton+katon AND oil to fuel the flames AND sage enhanced ninjutsu? Hell no I won't accept that! We don't even know if it's a water gun or a god level suiton that solos Kisame and Tobirama at the same time. That's why using fanfiction doesn't work. Jiraiya wins again, you reinforced that a lot."
It's funny how you find my argument invalid because kakuzu was never shown what he can do. Meanwhile you said goemon can spew burning oil that melts anything it comes in contact with. Since you have lost of being reasonable this bascially concludes our argument. Manga shows Goemon made contact with the ground, and the ground didn't melt. That was the closes thing Goemon has ever attacked. Since we don't actually know Goemon can do this is beyond speculation. You say DB backs up, I show DB back up too. You say its featless, I say it's featless

"Does Kakuzu have a bubble surrounding him that absorbs all ninjutsu that touches it? No? Very well, he can't come into contact with a burning lake of thousands of degrees then, don't bullshit me black."

It wouldn't matter because manga never showed any feats on what Goemon can do. What proof since the Ground didn't melt and rocks didn't melt/turn to molten rocks in the area

"Guess what, when Kakuzu loses a heart it doesn't matter if it's inside his body or dying to fodder jutsu meters away. He still loses a heart, and in turn, one of his VERY FEW "amazing" jutsu that you're hyping up to Sage Mode level for no good reason. Once he gets hit he loses a jutsu and a life. For good."

This had nothing to do with my counter for this jutsu

"Really, if Kishi was writing it that way I sure as hell didn't see it. Kakuzu was fighting seriously against them, it's not Ino's fault his jutsu were long range and they were far enough they could just jump to avoid. Rather than you know...countering all of them with vastly superior Sage Mode enhanced ninjutsu on a completely different level."

Its your problem of reading comprehension. Wind wasn't directly at them, Lightening wasn't dodged but blocked, Fire shows Kakuzu demonstrating his power:

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"When did I say Asuma's attacks were weak? Maybe they're not weak, but regardless he still destroyed a mask. And Jiraiya's jutsu make Asuma's look like crap in comparison, so yes when compared to high kage level sage mode jutsus they ARE weak. I'd love to see you write another desperate fanfic to prove that wrong."

You said they died by fodder jutsu and also concluded that Asuma killed one of them. But this whole post shows you are very close minded and refusing to acknowledge of being wrong not at one sentence, that fact that you still standing that read and comprehand that asuma destroyed one. I have already proven you wrong but you refuse to take it and stay with it. Make a thread discussion on who actually agrees with you.

"Despite the fact he destroys universes with his mind? Universes>Diamond black, to see you go to this level, I am disappointed. Wait, you mean Jiraiya can't destroy universes? Of course he can, it's in the databook. Prove me wrong."

Still doesn't prove it BREAKING. DB says: "This swamp goes down to abysmal depths!!" meaning how far below it can go. Again with lack of comprehension reading to prove yourself right

"You're getting REALLY desperate for proving this wrong, aren't you? None of those scans showed what was so "clear" to you on panel, try again. It looks like you're not up to accepting Choji destroying one of his masks, because in turn that would equal Kakuzu's obvious(if it isn't obvious already) defeat.
Now for the Asuma incident I suggest to carefully read my post ag"

This is where I could neg rep you because you literally have proven yourself that you lack comprehension skills. I will make a separate thread to show others how you reject the manga and decide what you read is the only right.

"You can believe whatever you want, Jiraiya's jutsu make both Asuma's and Tenten's wind jutsu look like trash. Doesn't matter which one it is, they both produced the same result on panel. X wind jutsu that easily destroyed Kakuzu's mask<<<<<<<<<<<<a large majority of Jiraiya's arsenal. Deal with it."

The fact that you say I can believe whatever I want is really funny. The fact that I have to read the manga in front of you and still say I am wrong.

"Ok, glad you admitted Kakuzu isn't invincible and Jiraiya can destroy all of his hearts. "Not an easy task", literally implies you know damn well yourself that Jiraiya wins. So thanks."

Resulting into putting words in your mouth to make your self right. The title goes to Joki ladies and gentlemen. The lack of comprehend reading also goes to you too.

"Bolded this to show how ridiculous your claims are. Do I even need to address this bullshit? It's quite obvious you're desperate now, there's literally no way anyone in their right mind would claim Domu could tank a mountain buster. I should have negged you and not posted originally, given you said Hidan could take a mountain buster too at one point."

People who imply logic would know that Diamonds are alot harder then Rocks that make up Mountains.

"Your scans are just proving me right more and more, look back at my original scans and the DB entries of "MOUNTAIN HOLLOWER", "METEORITE IMPACT", "THOUSANDS OF DEGREES", etc etc etc etc and tell me what exactly about Jiraiya was proven wrong. Go ahead, tell me what exactly you proved wrong and how this debate advanced any further in your favor? You're telling me the exact opposite happens and you've dropped multiple arguments and ignored multiple points that defeated your arguments? I thought so. "

Mountain Hollower: What makes the rocks that make up a mountain harder then Diamond. Diamonds are the hardest mineral in the world. What you have been proven wrong is that diamonds are harder then rocks. Since Rasegan can destroy rocks does not it will be the same result has somethign 100X harder

Meteorite impact: Is there evidence that a meteorite impact can break the hardest substance. I thought you said you understood the diamond brittle argument.

1000 degree was made because of Fire+Wind. The obvious answer for countering Fire+Wind.

"The one you ignored about Jiraiya being smashed through meters of concrete and not being scratched in the slightest. And the one where it broke on Naruto's skin on multiple occasions. The one you DID post was OFF PANEL and when Naruto stabbed HIMSELF, you've lost"

I didn't ignore it. J man being smashed had noting to do with piercing, it was irrelevant to what was actually implied in the first place. Yes I have also showed that destroy a kunai by physically breaking it, not tanking. It's a matter of comprehensive reading, you lost.

"That's that, in case you didn't know, when your arguments get destroyed that means you lost. It doesn't mean spam unrelated scans over and over because you're butthurt that you were proven wrong and you don't want to admit it."

Your scans still shows flaws. In case you didn't know train yourself with comprehension reading skills before coming into a debate next time, it will help you open up and be more reasonable. Now by jumping into conclusion, claiming everything is inferior to what you interpret, and that you are right all the time.


At this point it is back to intolerance discussions again. You result to flame again. There are things I want to quote for future ref of your denials/lack of reading skills (And I am pretty sure you will do the same).

Since you have lost reasoning I'm wasting my time. You are not an open mind person. The whole point of an argument was show what Kakuzu do win against J man. You want to try to sink me down to your level by implying "that I think Kakuzu wins because all his feats are inferior."
(expecting reply: OH so you don't think Kakuzu is superior?, I win). Your predictable at this point. You result to win in arugments by putting words on peoples mouth and proof that you are right because when you read it, you are always right even proven wrong


You have a good night

 

[Joki]

I have read your whole post and I am very disapointed that thought you would be a person that can reason when having a discussion but you are not even close, thanks for wasting time to find an actual clean conclusion then resulting in intolerance post
I don't know what you're talking about, but you have a serious problem with projecting what you're actually doing onto me.

"YES, There is! You're ignoring them. Don't do that, and you'll see who the real winner is."

I didn't ignore them you post nothing that J man has to break something as hard as Diamond. You claim I'm not posting relevance and yet you are doing it
Meanwhile, you post absolutely nothing supporting Kakuzu even IS diamond strength or can counter ANY of Jiraiya's techniques other than "well its diamond, and Doton: domu is obviously stronger than a mountain buster

"'ll leave my previous posts in the quotes from now on so anyone with a brain reading will see the clear avoiding topic or contradiction in your posts. Here you ramble on about literally nothing important and don't address anything in my original post. Do you accept the DB or do you not? Make up your mind. I point out that you accept the DB and you say "wait , post where I said I agree with the DB" despite the fact you're USING DB scans. Then when I say "Fine, if you don't accept DB, you must be against it despite the fact you're using scans" "lol no i never said I was against DB post where I said that". You cannot do that, even you know how completely bullshit that is."

Show me where I EVER DISAGREE,you put in quotation marks, (what post number was this):"wait , post where I said I agree with the DB"<----Where did I say that
It doesn't matter, since you actually accept the DB and admit you do now, so it's over.

"Everything you listed Jiraiya is superior in. Literally everything. So you're trying to claim shit like Susano'o is weaker than Domu? If so I'm negging you and not continuing to post any more if you go to that length so you don't have to admit you're wrong. Tsunade PHYSICALLY stronger than Jman? Possibly, since when are her punches stronger than a massive sage enhanced rasengan that can blow up a mountain? They aren't? By the gods, incredible. And her punches ripped through Susano'o. That can only mean one thing. Yep, Jiraiya wins."

Put words in my mouth to prove right. again. Having more durability doesn't result of it being better all around as a whole. If Tsunade's fist was the same size as the Rasengan then of course she can do it too. Susano was never implied that it is harder then Diamond. A mountain is not harder then a diamond and Sasano is not harder then a diamond. Making this conclusion still doesn't help unless these things are at least as hard as a diamond.
I ain't putting shit in your mouth. Tsunade's punches destroy Susano'o. Mountain buster is VASTLY VASTLY superior to Tsunade's punches. Susano'o>>>>>>Domu. The end.

"You have literally nothing else eh? Right. He can't counter Goemon, I'm glad you agreed. >WITHIN AN INSTANT >OIL BURNING AT TEMPERATURES OF THOUSANDS OF DEGREES /thread"
I already told you Water+Wind. I added that the size>size argument.
Post a scan of Kakuzu's water jutsu

"Who said it didn't have water? We haven't seen shit for it on panel, meanwhile you're speculating this unknown jutsu to counter one of Jmans most impressive techniques that can spew burning oil that melts anything it comes into contact with instantly with thousands of degree temperatures with fuuton+katon AND oil to fuel the flames AND sage enhanced ninjutsu? Hell no I won't accept that! We don't even know if it's a water gun or a god level suiton that solos Kisame and Tobirama at the same time. That's why using fanfiction doesn't work. Jiraiya wins again, you reinforced that a lot."
It's funny how you find my argument invalid because kakuzu was never shown what he can do. Meanwhile you said goemon can spew burning oil that melts anything it comes in contact with. Since you have lost of being reasonable this bascially concludes our argument. Manga shows Goemon made contact with the ground, and the ground didn't melt. That was the closes thing Goemon has ever attacked. Since we don't actually know Goemon can do this is beyond speculation. You say DB backs up, I show DB back up too. You say its featless, I say it's featless
Uhhh..there's a difference. We actually SAW goemon on panel and a person with a huge bubble that absorbs all ninjutsu sucked it up before it could do anything. You on the other hand are talking about some obscure water+wind combination when we don't even know what Kakuzu's water jutsu is. Can you post a panel of it ever being NEAR the ability to counter goemon? Kakuzu's water jutsu doesn't even have a DB entry so don't bullshit me. Post a panel of it being stronger than my piss stream every time I take a piss? You can't, because it was never used on panel, and doesn't have any DB entry whatsoever and we have no idea what it can do. EXACTLY.

"Guess what, when Kakuzu loses a heart it doesn't matter if it's inside his body or dying to fodder jutsu meters away. He still loses a heart, and in turn, one of his VERY FEW "amazing" jutsu that you're hyping up to Sage Mode level for no good reason. Once he gets hit he loses a jutsu and a life. For good."
This had nothing to do with my counter for this jutsu
The one that doesn't exist. Also, just a daily reminder that saying "hurr that didn't counter my points" doesn't give you the right to ignore the entire contents of the paragraph. Left it in the quotes, try countering that actual paragraph this time instead of avoiding the subject at hand.

"Really, if Kishi was writing it that way I sure as hell didn't see it. Kakuzu was fighting seriously against them, it's not Ino's fault his jutsu were long range and they were far enough they could just jump to avoid. Rather than you know...countering all of them with vastly superior Sage Mode enhanced ninjutsu on a completely different level."
Its your problem of reading comprehension. Wind wasn't directly at them, Lightening wasn't dodged but blocked, Fire shows Kakuzu demonstrating his power:

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You're right, it shows him demonstrating a power...a power that Ino and co avoided. But either way it's pretty obvious Jiraiya can avoid it and counter with his dozens of jutsu, you'd have to be a complete retard to think otherwise at this point.

"When did I say Asuma's attacks were weak? Maybe they're not weak, but regardless he still destroyed a mask. And Jiraiya's jutsu make Asuma's look like crap in comparison, so yes when compared to high kage level sage mode jutsus they ARE weak. I'd love to see you write another desperate fanfic to prove that wrong."
You said they died by fodder jutsu and also concluded that Asuma killed one of them. But this whole post shows you are very close minded and refusing to acknowledge of being wrong not at one sentence, that fact that you still standing that read and comprehand that asuma destroyed one. I have already proven you wrong but you refuse to take it and stay with it. Make a thread discussion on who actually agrees with you.
If you actually proved me wrong I would admit it, too bad that's never happened because you're continuing to deny manga fact and project.
Sadly in comparison to Jiraiya's high kage level ninjutsu they are fodder, considering they destroyed the masks it's perfectly cool.

"Despite the fact he destroys universes with his mind? Universes>Diamond black, to see you go to this level, I am disappointed. Wait, you mean Jiraiya can't destroy universes? Of course he can, it's in the databook. Prove me wrong."
Still doesn't prove it BREAKING. DB says: "This swamp goes down to abysmal depths!!" meaning how far below it can go. Again with lack of comprehension reading to prove yourself right
You ignored the part where Jiraiya destroys universes, he just processes a thought and Kakuzu is erased from existence. Read the DB, I'll even quote it. "Jiraiya is a beast, and truly a god and of the masterrace, by processing a thought he can erase anything from existence at will and shatter universes effortlessly." This actually happened, so I'm waiting for you to prove me wrong of where this wasn't said in the DB.

"You're getting REALLY desperate for proving this wrong, aren't you? None of those scans showed what was so "clear" to you on panel, try again. It looks like you're not up to accepting Choji destroying one of his masks, because in turn that would equal Kakuzu's obvious(if it isn't obvious already) defeat.
Now for the Asuma incident I suggest to carefully read my post ag"
This is where I could neg rep you because you literally have proven yourself that you lack comprehension skills. I will make a separate thread to show others how you reject the manga and decide what you read is the only right.
Lololol making separate threads for backup because you can't handle Joki, this has happened before it's cool bro I'd honor you admitting inferiority.

"You can believe whatever you want, Jiraiya's jutsu make both Asuma's and Tenten's wind jutsu look like trash. Doesn't matter which one it is, they both produced the same result on panel. X wind jutsu that easily destroyed Kakuzu's mask<<<<<<<<<<<<a large majority of Jiraiya's arsenal. Deal with it."
The fact that you say I can believe whatever I want is really funny. The fact that I have to read the manga in front of you and still say I am wrong.
You're reading the manga wrong because you're blinded by Kakuzu fanboyism. I'm reading it correctly. You CAN beleive whatever you want, why can't I believe Konohamaru solos Itachi? Doesn't mean I'm right, and obviously in this case you're wrong. But since you like Kakuzu you won't admit that, this debate will get literally nowhere but oh well.

"Ok, glad you admitted Kakuzu isn't invincible and Jiraiya can destroy all of his hearts. "Not an easy task", literally implies you know damn well yourself that Jiraiya wins. So thanks."
Resulting into putting words in your mouth to make your self right. The title goes to Joki ladies and gentlemen. The lack of comprehend reading also goes to you too.
Again, you need to stop projecting, this is kind of getting ridiculous at this point. Everything you pin on me is what you're actually committing.

So you're saying Kakuzu IS invincible? Sigh, I expected more

"Bolded this to show how ridiculous your claims are. Do I even need to address this bullshit? It's quite obvious you're desperate now, there's literally no way anyone in their right mind would claim Domu could tank a mountain buster. I should have negged you and not posted originally, given you said Hidan could take a mountain buster too at one point."
People who imply logic would know that Diamonds are alot harder then Rocks that make up Mountains.
I thought you said Kakuzu's body doesn't literally become diamond? Because we've only ever seen weak techniques come into contact with, you can't assume he can tank god level techniques. ""Kakuzu tanked *small paper bomb explosion* Therefore he can TANK A MOUNTAIN BUSTER LOL". That ain't good logic. In fact, here is the DB entry:

"Ninjutsu, B-rank, Supplementary
User: Kakuzu
A body like diamond, repelling everything!!"

You're using real life logic about diamonds in a fictional universe where there are super powers and bringing people back to life and shit. I'd not do that. Especially when the DB entry doesn't say "oh if you can't break diamond in the real life wolrd despite the fact this shit hollows out mountains then you cant harm him" Not only that but people have pierced/broken diamonds in the manga before, you're not helping your argument.

"Your scans are just proving me right more and more, look back at my original scans and the DB entries of "MOUNTAIN HOLLOWER", "METEORITE IMPACT", "THOUSANDS OF DEGREES", etc etc etc etc and tell me what exactly about Jiraiya was proven wrong. Go ahead, tell me what exactly you proved wrong and how this debate advanced any further in your favor? You're telling me the exact opposite happens and you've dropped multiple arguments and ignored multiple points that defeated your arguments? I thought so. "
Mountain Hollower: What makes the rocks that make up a mountain harder then Diamond. Diamonds are the hardest mineral in the world. What you have been proven wrong is that diamonds are harder then rocks. Since Rasegan can destroy rocks does not it will be the same result has somethign 100X harder
Last I checked Naruto isn't real life and there are jutsu which blow up entire mountains. Don't be retarded, if it's not obvious how extremely in denial you are at this point, saying Domu can tank mountain busters sure as hell is.

Meteorite impact: Is there evidence that a meteorite impact can break the hardest substance. I thought you said you understood the diamond brittle argument.
I haven't seen Kakuzu tank anywhere NEAR that level of technique. Wanna post a scan? Because Cho Odama Rasengan is literally 50+ times the size of said "meteorite impact".

1000 degree was made because of Fire+Wind. The obvious answer for countering Fire+Wind.
Unfortunately Kakuzu can't use that because that jutsu doesn't exist. And I'm to assume Jiraiya sits on his ass and watches it happen when he has dozens of adaptable jutsu?

"The one you ignored about Jiraiya being smashed through meters of concrete and not being scratched in the slightest. And the one where it broke on Naruto's skin on multiple occasions. The one you DID post was OFF PANEL and when Naruto stabbed HIMSELF, you've lost"

I didn't ignore it. J man being smashed had noting to do with piercing, it was irrelevant to what was actually implied in the first place. Yes I have also showed that destroy a kunai by physically breaking it, not tanking. It's a matter of comprehensive reading, you lost.
Irrelevant, it actually happened in the manga. Nothing Kakuzu has will actually damage Jiraiya then.

Since when do kunais>>>>>>being smashed through layers of concrete by a massive boss summon and not getting scratched? This is the true will of EjBlack

"That's that, in case you didn't know, when your arguments get destroyed that means you lost. It doesn't mean spam unrelated scans over and over because you're butthurt that you were proven wrong and you don't want to admit it."

Your scans still shows flaws. In case you didn't know train yourself with comprehension reading skills before coming into a debate next time, it will help you open up and be more reasonable. Now by jumping into conclusion, claiming everything is inferior to what you interpret, and that you are right all the time.
Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people.


At this point it is back to intolerance discussions again. You result to flame again. There are things I want to quote for future ref of your denials/lack of reading skills (And I am pretty sure you will do the same).
Since you have lost reasoning I'm wasting my time. You are not an open mind person. The whole point of an argument was show what Kakuzu do win against J man. You want to try to sink me down to your level by implying "that I think Kakuzu wins because all his feats are inferior."
Obviously you're wasting your time, even you know Jiraiya wins but refuse to admit it under any circumstance. Do you think you'll ever actually admit you're wrong, after the obvious already happened you would have already, so I didn't think so. See above, projection.

Some things are just proven in manga, by actual scans AND Jiraiya has the DB feats to back him up. Everything is already here in the posts. It's proven. Everything you've even attempted to prove wrong is weak in comparison, Kakuzu literally has nothing to compare with Jiraiya because the gap is so obvious and there's actual on screen proof that anything Kakuzu has done Jiraiya has a superior feat of the same thing. You tried to say "no, it's not proven ur just close minded" but anyone can argue Konohamaru>Itachi and post Konohamaru's scans and try and pretend like Konohamaru is stronger calling the other person out for being stupid and close minded for not accepting their "obvious" proof and how they'll never admit when they're wrong.

(expecting reply: OH so you don't think Kakuzu is superior?, I win). Your predictable at this point. You result to win in arugments by putting words on peoples mouth and proof that you are right because when you read it, you are always right even proven wrong
You have a good night

OH so you don't think Kakuzu is superior?, I win

Anyway, nah you should work on not projecting. But since your post was considerably shorter than usual, I'd like to quote something I put in my last post:
"And the plenty of little things you outright ignore that happened on panel, such as Yomi Numa dwarfing an entire massive boss summon and being called a small swamp. Or the PLENTY of other things that I haven't even seen a response to. Meaning that, in your reply, you erased that part of the post, ignoring it completely, because you couldn't respond to it. I hope you know that I can use Ctrl+F, you're not fooling me".

So here are some things you literally outright IGNORED because you had no counter to.

"what happens once Kakuzu's lightning mask dies or gets "submerged completely" under the swamp? It's not going to be using any jutsu. I enjoy ignoring my scan, quite black, although I expected you to ignore more things you can't counter:"

You must be registered for see images

"Kakuzu's masks slowly die in battle, he can't continue using all 4 of his jutsu. This is what ALL Kakuzu fans are oblivious to and fail to realize. Guess what, Kakuzu doesn't have access to all of his jutsu as long as he's alive! He's dependent on his masks, which were destroyed by weak attacks like Asuma's fuuton(OR Tenten's fuuton which shouldn't make a difference) and Choji's palm smash. Once Jiraiya destroys the independent masks? Kakuzu's down a jutsu, and has even less of a way to put Jiraiya down."

There's plenty more, but IIRC like I said in my last post, you're going to need the lenience.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

"I don't know what you're talking about, but you have a serious problem with projecting what you're actually doing onto me. "
This is what I am talking about"
A more simple sentence: Your post are very closed minded, and they result in result to insults

"Meanwhile, you post absolutely nothing supporting Kakuzu even IS diamond strength or can counter ANY of Jiraiya's techniques other than "well its diamond, and Doton: domu is obviously stronger than a mountain buster"

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DB: "there are nearly no other jutsu other than lightening style that can defeat Diamond morph."

"It doesn't matter, since you actually accept the DB and admit you do now, so it's over."

Your saying that it doesn't matter because you won't admit that I have ever made such a saying, thus leaving you wrong. Shows more that you are not open minded person.

"I ain't putting shit in your mouth. Tsunade's punches destroy Susano'o. Mountain buster is VASTLY VASTLY superior to Tsunade's punches. Susano'o>>>>>>Domu. The end."
ABC logic doesn't help this argument. The end

"Post a scan of Kakuzu's water jutsu"
If it was a open mined discussion you would know that Kakuzu has water jutsu. Just because it wasn't used doesn't make it excluded. This is a 1v1 thread where everyone starts with everything they have, meaning he start with all 5 hearts. If you can't be opened and concluded he can at least do a B rank difficulty water jutsu, like his others, and is as par with his other elements attacks then there is no point of discussing to someone closed minded.

"Uhhh..there's a difference. We actually SAW goemon on panel and a person with a huge bubble that absorbs all ninjutsu sucked it up before it could do anything. You on the other hand are talking about some obscure water+wind combination when we don't even know what Kakuzu's water jutsu is. Can you post a panel of it ever being NEAR the ability to counter goemon? Kakuzu's water jutsu doesn't even have a DB entry so don't bullshit me. Post a panel of it being stronger than my piss stream every time I take a piss? You can't, because it was never used on panel, and doesn't have any DB entry whatsoever and we have no idea what it can do. EXACTLY."

We saw it on panel and it did nothing. And since you are not open/reason to discuss feats not shown to do nothing then this concludes this post

"The one that doesn't exist. Also, just a daily reminder that saying "hurr that didn't counter my points" doesn't give you the right to ignore the entire contents of the paragraph. Left it in the quotes, try countering that actual paragraph this time instead of avoiding the subject at hand."

What is there to say? I have you a counter that swamp loses against lightening release then you imply "no swamp destroys lightening release and sinks kakuzu with it, there is nothing he can't do once caught". You closed minded in this, and fail logically to even interpret of destroying universe. This is also where you fail to interpret it to being a one hit KO:

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J-man:"And this Snake is still moving as well.."
I thought the fact that that oro, j man, and blind pain would give you a hint that it;s not a one hit KO. But a closed minded person is simply closed minded

"You're right, it shows him demonstrating a power...a power that Ino and co avoided. But either way it's pretty obvious Jiraiya can avoid it and counter with his dozens of jutsu, you'd have to be a complete retard to think otherwise at this point."

Of course it can be avoid when the enemy is only showing how great his attacks are instead of actually attacking with it's supporting Mask. I never said the Mask were indestructible what I said was in a 5v1 Kakuzu can choose varieties on where he can attack from and Domu can be a base safe place. You are stuck to consider that since J man has feats to destroy Mask then he automatically wins. This is a closed minded response.

"If you actually proved me wrong I would admit it, too bad that's never happened because you're continuing to deny manga fact and project.
Sadly in comparison to Jiraiya's high kage level ninjutsu they are fodder, considering they destroyed the masks it's perfectly cool."

The fact is, I already pointed where you are misreading and pointed where you are in-corrected, but the fact is you want to read it the way that will fit in your conclusion that j man wins. You are a closed minded person since you ignore HOW the mask was destroyed.

"You ignored the part where Jiraiya destroys universes, he just processes a thought and Kakuzu is erased from existence. Read the DB, I'll even quote it. "Jiraiya is a beast, and truly a god and of the masterrace, by processing a thought he can erase anything from existence at will and shatter universes effortlessly." This actually happened, so I'm waiting for you to prove me wrong of where this wasn't said in the DB."

I already sat down with you and read the DB:
The more you struggle, the more you sink (Interesting that is the same concept as a regular swamp)
A bottomless swamp from Hell!!(OH I like that expression)
"By changing the ground into mud and creating a swamp, the enemy is sunk deep underground...!!(Of course!) The adhesive, chakra-infused mud ensnares the enemy's body.(Interesting it sinks that opponet) It's impossible to recover one's strength and escape from there.(Oh really? You can't used physical force to get out, HMM then what can you?) The size and depth of the created swamp depend on the user's skill and the amount of chakra used, but if the user is an expert in this technique, it will always be possible to make a fair-sized swamp!(Interesting thats what J man did on manga 166 page 7!) When fighting a great number of enemies or having to face gigantic creatures, this is an extremely effective technique. (Oh it depends on the size and mass of the opponent to what results it will bring? interesting)
The giant snake captured in this bog is prevented from moving! But if you ask Jiraiya, he'd say it is insufficient. (That makes sense because the Snake couldn't move at that point but only struggled!) The real goal of this technique is to completely submerge the target underground.(Oh so the opponent who doesn't have a counter for this tech would mean that he is bound to sink inside the mud swamp? Oh interesting)
This swamp goes down to abysmal depths!!" (WAIT?HOW FAR DOWN? ABYSMAL DEPTHS? So you means it can go down as far 4,000 to 6,000 meters (13,123 to 19,685 feet) Cool!)

Yup you want to interpret you way to prove yourself right then what the actually context imply.

"Lololol making separate threads for backup because you can't handle Jok(e)i(ing), this has happened before it's cool bro I'd honor you admitting inferiority."
Sure you are funnier then me when it comes to debating i tend to be of an open minded person and don't claim who I am up against a fodder. But praises go to you funny guy:worshippy:

"You're reading the manga wrong because you're blinded by Kakuzu fanboyism. I'm reading it correctly. You CAN beleive whatever you want, why can't I believe Konohamaru solos Itachi? Doesn't mean I'm right, and obviously in this case you're wrong. But since you like Kakuzu you won't admit that, this debate will get literally nowhere but oh well."

The fact that I have to break down your counters already proves that you are reading wrong. This debate is going nowhere so why I you still posting since you already know that you are closed mined

"Again, you need to stop projecting, this is kind of getting ridiculous at this point. Everything you pin on me is what you're actually committing."

So you mean: "I don't like being projected, only I am able to do it to you, so I expect you to not do it back to me." Right...

"So you're saying Kakuzu IS invincible? Sigh, I expected more"
Predictable response: Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism.

"I thought you said Kakuzu's body doesn't literally become diamond? Because we've only ever seen weak techniques come into contact with, you can't assume he can tank god level techniques. ""Kakuzu tanked *small paper bomb explosion* Therefore he can TANK A MOUNTAIN BUSTER LOL". That ain't good logic. In fact, here is the DB entry:"

"A body like diamond, repelling everything!!""
The fact that you bold "like" and still interpret it your way and I even broke down the reading for you shows that you are closed minded and want to read it your way here lets read this rest so those you are reading this too can actually see what I am talking about (here are the REST of the DB info):

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"You're using real life logic about diamonds( I am also quoting DB which said:There are nearly no other jutsu other than lightening style that can deafeat Diamond morph) in a fictional universe where there are super powers and bringing people back to life and shit (Sadly this has nothing to do with a claim that break Domu). I'd not do that. Especially when the DB entry doesn't say "oh if you can't break diamond in the real life wolrd despite the fact this shit hollows out mountains then you cant harm him (Actually that is what you want to read to interpret to prove yourself right I will post what DB says again:There are nearly no other jutsu other than lightening style that can defeat Diamond morph)" Not only that but people have pierced/broken diamonds in the manga before, you're not helping your argument.(Expected you to proof it but your statement now holds no water)"

"Last I checked Naruto isn't real life and there are jutsu which blow up entire mountains. Don't be retarded, if it's not obvious how extremely in denial you are at this point, saying Domu can tank mountain busters sure as hell is. "

You don't say? You still haven't proof the manga and DB book wrong let me post it for the third time:

You must be registered for see images

"I haven't seen Kakuzu tank anywhere NEAR that level of technique. Wanna post a scan? Because Cho Odama Rasengan is literally 50+ times the size of said "meteorite impact". "

I haven't seen J man used Cho Odama Rasengan anywhere near that level. Wanna post a scan? Because it says "there are nearly no other jutsu other than lightening style ninjutsu that deafeat it".

"Unfortunately Kakuzu can't use that because that jutsu doesn't exist. And I'm to assume Jiraiya sits on his ass and watches it happen when he has dozens of adaptable jutsu?"

He has Wind and Water but it doesn't exist, ok. Can you proof that J man can do multitasking while firing Goemon?

"Irrelevant, it actually happened in the manga. Nothing Kakuzu has will actually damage Jiraiya then"

You make this claim because you think basing a bull-horn Summon is better then Kakuzu feats, your losing.

"Since when do kunais>>>>>>being smashed through layers of concrete by a massive boss summon and not getting scratched? This is the true will of EjBlack"

This is the true will of the Joke(Joki). The fact that we already conclude that SM skin can be pierce and yet wants to bring this argument back to imply that I make a claim that kunais>>>Being Smashed by a Summon.

"Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people."

You claim my post is projecting and yet you did it first lol: "That's that, in case you didn't know, when your arguments get destroyed that means you lost. It doesn't mean spam unrelated scans over and over because you're butthurt that you were proven wrong and you don't want to admit it."

"Obviously you're wasting your time, even you know Jiraiya wins but refuse to admit it under any circumstance. Do you think you'll ever actually admit you're wrong, after the obvious already happened you would have already, so I didn't think so. See above, projection. "

The problem is your reading skills which you result to believe you have won. The fact that I broke it down for you to read it easier still shows that you are close-minded and never say you are wrong about it..I for one actually was open minded when admitting I was wrong, for example The claims of Base Strength and Speed so don't pull that crap one me. You on the other hand already shows it that you do not admit into nothing even proofed wrong countless times. Listen to yourself, watch for projection, (which you started at post 173).

"Some things are just proven in manga, by actual scans AND Jiraiya has the DB feats to back him up. Everything is already here in the posts. It's proven. Everything you've even attempted to prove wrong is weak in comparison, Kakuzu literally has nothing to compare with Jiraiya because the gap is so obvious and there's actual on screen proof that anything Kakuzu has done Jiraiya has a superior feat of the same thing. You tried to say "no, it's not proven ur just close minded" but anyone can argue Konohamaru>Itachi and post Konohamaru's scans and try and pretend like Konohamaru is stronger calling the other person out for being stupid and close minded for not accepting their "obvious" proof and how they'll never admit when they're wrong."

Some things are meant take time to read and understand the context. Once you get better at it then you will notice how you are wrong. This also help you train to be a bit more open-minded in discussion. You don't have to result in putting words in peoples mouths to try to claim a victory in a debate.

"your reply, you erased that part of the post, ignoring it completely, because you couldn't respond to it. I hope you know that I can use Ctrl+F, you're not fooling me"."

Um I clearly said I was wasting my time debating to some closed minded as you so I stop, so expect this to be this to be the last or 2nd last reply then?

""what happens once Kakuzu's lightning mask dies or gets "submerged completely" under the swamp? It's not going to be using any jutsu. I enjoy ignoring my scan, quite black, although I expected you to ignore more things you can't counter:"

I even add more into detail with this post, this proofs you lack reading skills. But go ahead and find it gain.

""Kakuzu's masks slowly die in battle, he can't continue using all 4 of his jutsu . This is what ALL Kakuzu fans are oblivious to and fail to realize. Guess what, Kakuzu doesn't have access to all of his jutsu as long as he's alive! (You don't say?) He's dependent on his masks, which were destroyed by weak attacks like Asuma's fuuton(OR Tenten's fuuton which shouldn't make a difference) and Choji's palm smash. Once Jiraiya destroys the independent masks? Kakuzu's down a jutsu, and has even less of a way to put Jiraiya down.""

What is there to argue, where did I make a claim that he can use more jutsu up his sleeves? I already proofed you wrong that they weren't destroy by Asuma. Ten ten had the Sage weapon, so bascially you are calling the Sage weaspon fodder. And I definite Clear up Choji which you are completely denying the manga about. Your closed minded and don't want to admit wrong, deal with it and find a solution to help provent these makes again.

 

[Joki]

"I don't know what you're talking about, but you have a serious problem with projecting what you're actually doing onto me. "
This is what I am talking about"
A more simple sentence: Your post are very closed minded, and they result in result to insults
While yours result in counter insults, the first part of your post is still true about what you're actually doing

"Meanwhile, you post absolutely nothing supporting Kakuzu even IS diamond strength or can counter ANY of Jiraiya's techniques other than "well its diamond, and Doton: domu is obviously stronger than a mountain buster"

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DB: "there are nearly no other jutsu other than lightening style that can defeat Diamond morph."
Key word nearly.

"It doesn't matter, since you actually accept the DB and admit you do now, so it's over."
Your saying that it doesn't matter because you won't admit that I have ever made such a saying, thus leaving you wrong. Shows more that you are not open minded person.
Why are you saying "you won't admit I've ever made such a saying" WHILE POSTING DB SCANS? You accept DB as fact, if you don't, don't use them in your arguments. The end.

"I ain't putting shit in your mouth. Tsunade's punches destroy Susano'o. Mountain buster is VASTLY VASTLY superior to Tsunade's punches. Susano'o>>>>>>Domu. The end."
ABC logic doesn't help this argument. The end
Tell me how that's ABC Logic when it's all 1 type of attack? Maybe if it was 3 people with thousands of different jutsu. Too bad it isn't. It's comparing one jutsu. You just don't want to admit chou odama would destroy Domu with utter ease. How can you even hope to pin ABC logic on a MOUNTAIN BUSTER compared to Tsunade's PUNCHES? There's such a vast difference it's incredible. Your fanboyism and level of denial has been proven multiple times at this point.

"Post a scan of Kakuzu's water jutsu"
If it was a open mined discussion you would know that Kakuzu has water jutsu. Just because it wasn't used doesn't make it excluded. This is a 1v1 thread where everyone starts with everything they have, meaning he start with all 5 hearts. If you can't be opened and concluded he can at least do a B rank difficulty water jutsu, like his others, and is as par with his other elements attacks then there is no point of discussing to someone closed minded.
Ok, tell me how strong it is bro, my water gun is stronger than it. Prove me wrong. Thought so, the end.

"Uhhh..there's a difference. We actually SAW goemon on panel and a person with a huge bubble that absorbs all ninjutsu sucked it up before it could do anything. You on the other hand are talking about some obscure water+wind combination when we don't even know what Kakuzu's water jutsu is. Can you post a panel of it ever being NEAR the ability to counter goemon? Kakuzu's water jutsu doesn't even have a DB entry so don't bullshit me. Post a panel of it being stronger than my piss stream every time I take a piss? You can't, because it was never used on panel, and doesn't have any DB entry whatsoever and we have no idea what it can do. EXACTLY."
We saw it on panel and it did nothing. And since you are not open/reason to discuss feats not shown to do nothing then this concludes this post
Bolded the paragraph because you ignored the entire thing. Not unlike you to do that. Since you won't actually respond to it or re-read it, concession accepted..again.

"The one that doesn't exist. Also, just a daily reminder that saying "hurr that didn't counter my points" doesn't give you the right to ignore the entire contents of the paragraph. Left it in the quotes, try countering that actual paragraph this time instead of avoiding the subject at hand."
What is there to say? I have you a counter that swamp loses against lightening release then you imply "no swamp destroys lightening release and sinks kakuzu with it, there is nothing he can't do once caught". You closed minded in this, and fail logically to even interpret of destroying universe. This is also where you fail to interpret it to being a one hit KO:
You're projecting and admitting it outright in the same post. "ur so close minded" meanwhile denying literal manga fact.
Jiraiya kills the lightning heart with ease, then Yomi Numa GG.

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J-man:"And this Snake is still moving as well.."
I thought the fact that that oro, j man, and blind pain would give you a hint that it;s not a one hit KO. But a closed minded person is simply closed minded
"The snake is still moving as well...in SUCH A SMALL SWAMP" It's a SMALL SWAMP. And it still nearly submerged a massive boss summon instantly. Your attempt at a demerit was massive reinforcement so thanks for the help. Since when was Kakuzu anywhere near the size of a boss summon? Oh yeah...he's the size of a PERSON, which as we can see below:

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Literally nuff said.

"You're right, it shows him demonstrating a power...a power that Ino and co avoided. But either way it's pretty obvious Jiraiya can avoid it and counter with his dozens of jutsu, you'd have to be a complete retard to think otherwise at this point."
Of course it can be avoid when the enemy is only showing how great his attacks are instead of actually attacking with it's supporting Mask. I never said the Mask were indestructible what I said was in a 5v1 Kakuzu can choose varieties on where he can attack from and Domu can be a base safe place. You are stuck to consider that since J man has feats to destroy Mask then he automatically wins. This is a closed minded response.
MY reading comprehension fails? Since when was Kakuzu messing around with them trying to "show off his power"? Post a single scan in the slightest to back this crap up, other than Kakashi unrelatedly hyping him up in his mind, you're BSing. As a fan of Kakuzu you should know that's completely out of character for him.

"If you actually proved me wrong I would admit it, too bad that's never happened because you're continuing to deny manga fact and project.
Sadly in comparison to Jiraiya's high kage level ninjutsu they are fodder, considering they destroyed the masks it's perfectly cool."
The fact is, I already pointed where you are misreading and pointed where you are in-corrected, but the fact is you want to read it the way that will fit in your conclusion that j man wins. You are a closed minded person since you ignore HOW the mask was destroyed.
You're projecting, why can't the opposite be true? You think that Kakuzu can survive a mountain buster based on literally no proof at all other than the DB saying "this jutsu is hard like diamond". I'm not reading it in a way to fit shit, I'm reading the actual manga which you should try doing some time.

"You ignored the part where Jiraiya destroys universes, he just processes a thought and Kakuzu is erased from existence. Read the DB, I'll even quote it. "Jiraiya is a beast, and truly a god and of the masterrace, by processing a thought he can erase anything from existence at will and shatter universes effortlessly." This actually happened, so I'm waiting for you to prove me wrong of where this wasn't said in the DB."
I already sat down with you and read the DB:
It has nothing to do with the part in the DB where it says Jiraiya can destroy universes while processing a thought casually. Since you never pointed out in Jiraiya's bio where it didn't say that, we can conclude that I'm telling the truth 100% and you're wrong.

You can't used physical force to get out, HMM then what can you?)(Oh it depends on the size and mass of the opponent to what results it will bring? interesting)
The giant snake captured in this bog is prevented from moving! But if you ask Jiraiya, he'd say it is insufficient. (That makes sense because the Snake couldn't move at that point but only struggled!) The real goal of this technique is to completely submerge the target underground.(Oh so the opponent who doesn't have a counter for this tech would mean that he is bound to sink inside the mud swamp? Oh interesting)
This swamp goes down to abysmal depths!!" (WAIT?HOW FAR DOWN? ABYSMAL DEPTHS? So you means it can go down as far 4,000 to 6,000 meters (13,123 to 19,685 feet) Cool!)

Cool, glad that you realize he can't actually counter it with those, I can tell you were being 100% serious and not sarcastic in any way because you didn't post any proof otherwise according to the on screen manga panels where all of that stuff actually happened. Glad you agree Kakuzu gets crapped on here by Yomi Numa.

"Lololol making separate threads for backup because you can't handle Jok(e)i(ing), this has happened before it's cool bro I'd honor you admitting inferiority."
Sure you are funnier then me when it comes to debating i tend to be of an open minded person and don't claim who I am up against a fodder. But praises go to you funny guy:worshippy:
You spelled joking wrong.

"You're reading the manga wrong because you're blinded by Kakuzu fanboyism. I'm reading it correctly. You CAN beleive whatever you want, why can't I believe Konohamaru solos Itachi? Doesn't mean I'm right, and obviously in this case you're wrong. But since you like Kakuzu you won't admit that, this debate will get literally nowhere but oh well."
The fact that I have to break down your counters already proves that you are reading wrong. This debate is going nowhere so why I you still posting since you already know that you are closed mined
No it doesn't, this is outright retarded logic. I'm breaking down your posts too, Konohamaru fans can break down Itachi fans posts and tell them how horribly Konohamaru rapes him.

"Again, you need to stop projecting, this is kind of getting ridiculous at this point. Everything you pin on me is what you're actually committing."
So you mean: "I don't like being projected, only I am able to do it to you, so I expect you to not do it back to me." Right...
Interesting, a failed attempt at double projecting.

"So you're saying Kakuzu IS invincible? Sigh, I expected more"
Predictable response: Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism.
Once more blatant proof you have no idea what it actually means, thinking I would use it as a response to something that has nothing to do with projectiong at all.

"I thought you said Kakuzu's body doesn't literally become diamond? Because we've only ever seen weak techniques come into contact with, you can't assume he can tank god level techniques. ""Kakuzu tanked *small paper bomb explosion* Therefore he can TANK A MOUNTAIN BUSTER LOL". That ain't good logic. In fact, here is the DB entry:"
"A body like diamond, repelling everything!!""
The fact that you bold "like" and still interpret it your way and I even broke down the reading for you shows that you are closed minded and want to read it your way here lets read this rest so those you are reading this too can actually see what I am talking about (here are the REST of the DB info):

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I already read that, it supports me if anything. Hell Kakuzu can't even move while he uses it.

Also, your passive aggressive insults of calling me close minded repeatedly hold literally no water at all. You also happen to be projecting that onto me yet again.

"You're using real life logic about diamonds( I am also quoting DB which said:There are nearly no other jutsu other than lightening style that can deafeat Diamond morph) in a fictional universe where there are super powers and bringing people back to life and shit (Sadly this has nothing to do with a claim that break Domu). I'd not do that. Especially when the DB entry doesn't say "oh if you can't break diamond in the real life wolrd despite the fact this shit hollows out mountains then you cant harm him (Actually that is what you want to read to interpret to prove yourself right I will post what DB says again:There are nearly no other jutsu other than lightening style that can defeat Diamond morph)" Not only that but people have pierced/broken diamonds in the manga before, you're not helping your argument.(Expected you to proof it but your statement now holds no water)"
Exactly. The DB definitely doesn't say the shit you make it out to be. "hard like diamond, repelling everything. almost nothing other than lightning jutsu can break through domu" does NOT EQUAL "Kakuzu can survive mountain busters with ease because I'm a massive kakuzu fanboy and refuse to admit he will ever die to anything".

"Last I checked Naruto isn't real life and there are jutsu which blow up entire mountains. Don't be retarded, if it's not obvious how extremely in denial you are at this point, saying Domu can tank mountain busters sure as hell is. "
You don't say? You still haven't proof the manga and DB book wrong let me post it for the third time:

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You're literally projecting to a massive level here. Where are YOUR counters for the DB and manga? You can't post massively inferior bullshit DB entries to counter a FAR superior DB entry. "Hurr, this thing that says 'hard like diamond, almost nothing other than lightning jutsu can break through domu' is TOTALLY superior to something that can wipe out an entire mountain and u havent proven it wrong" inb4 close minded and interpreting it when it's outright what you said multiple times.

"I haven't seen Kakuzu tank anywhere NEAR that level of technique. Wanna post a scan? Because Cho Odama Rasengan is literally 50+ times the size of said "meteorite impact". "
I haven't seen J man used Cho Odama Rasengan anywhere near that level. Wanna post a scan? Because it says "there are nearly no other jutsu other than lightening style ninjutsu that deafeat it".
Oh really?
REGULAR Rasengan:

The Compressed power of rotation! Its power is ultimateness itself!
The compressed force of the rotation is released on the enemy.
Once the compressed highest level of chakra is released, incredible rotation and power of destruction synchronize and speed ahead.
The shockwave moves ahead and sweeps everything in its path and overturns the earth. Unless it collides with something in its way, there is no stoppage of its power.
If chakra that swirls like a typhoon can be maintained hand-sized, then its power does not disintegrate and its rotation and power are limitlessly produced. Upon release its power of destruction is greatly heightened. It is equivalent to having a ‘small hurricane’ in one’s hands!!

ODAMA Rasengan:

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A terrifying offensive power that pierces though the target, and even excavates the surrounding grounds!! The impact born from a condensation of Kyuubi's chakra rivals that of a collision with a small meteorite!!


CHO ODAMA Rasengan

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The "Rasengan" is wildly rotating chakra in one's hand and containing it in a sphere. The "Big Ball Rasengan" uses an increased quantity of chakra between the hands of the real body and a Shadow Clone. "Sage Mode" Jiraiya adds natural energy to this, rapidly increasing the size to gigantic proportions!! The created ball of light is a raging storm, coiling like a whirlpool. If it explodes, it can easily hollow out an entire mountain...!!
Let's go back to the first time rasengan was used and read again:
"Upon release its power of destruction is greatly heightened"

You clearly don't know how rasengan actually works.What do YOU think will happen? Will it will simply attempt to drill into Kakuzu, not work, and then poof away or something stupid like that?

You should just stop trying.


"Unfortunately Kakuzu can't use that because that jutsu doesn't exist. And I'm to assume Jiraiya sits on his ass and watches it happen when he has dozens of adaptable jutsu?"
He has Wind and Water but it doesn't exist, ok. Can you proof that J man can do multitasking while firing Goemon?
Sure can, it's called kage bunshin no jutsu. What about you?

"Irrelevant, it actually happened in the manga. Nothing Kakuzu has will actually damage Jiraiya then"
You make this claim because you think basing a bull-horn Summon is better then Kakuzu feats, your losing.
My losing what?

No, actually, if you recall you were trying to act like kunais could break on his skin and I posted that to prove you wrong. Since you dropped it completely in the face of Jiraiya tanking being smashed through all of that concrete, I'm glad you admit defeat on it.

This does however prove domu punches won't scratch Jiraiya in the slightest(and to save bullshit if you think it can, why don't you post proof instead of calling me close minded or something stupid).

"Since when do kunais>>>>>>being smashed through layers of concrete by a massive boss summon and not getting scratched? This is the true will of EjBlack"
This is the true will of the Joke(Joki). The fact that we already conclude that SM skin can be pierce and yet wants to bring this argument back to imply that I make a claim that kunais>>>Being Smashed by a Summon.
You didn't imply it. Anyone with a brain will clearly deny kunais being stronger than that. You're VERY obviously bullshitting to avoid admitting you're wrong if that's the case. A sad world that no matter what, when driven into a corner people will never admit they're wrong. Even when it goes so far as to STAND BY YOUR CLAIM that KUNAIS are stronger than being smashed through concrete leaving a massive crater by a huge boss summon. Just greaaat work there black. I've totally seen kunai do that type of damage on panel

"Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people."
You claim my post is projecting and yet you did it first lol: "That's that, in case you didn't know, when your arguments get destroyed that means you lost. It doesn't mean spam unrelated scans over and over because you're butthurt that you were proven wrong and you don't want to admit it."
Nah, I didn't, because I was actually right. I notice how yet again you didn't actually respond to any of that. Concession accepted. Again.

"Obviously you're wasting your time, even you know Jiraiya wins but refuse to admit it under any circumstance. Do you think you'll ever actually admit you're wrong, after the obvious already happened you would have already, so I didn't think so. See above, projection. "
The problem is your reading skills which you result to believe you have won. The fact that I broke it down for you to read it easier still shows that you are close-minded and never say you are wrong about it..I for one actually was open minded when admitting I was wrong, for example The claims of Base Strength and Speed so don't pull that crap one me. You on the other hand already shows it that you do not admit into nothing even proofed wrong countless times. Listen to yourself, watch for projection, (which you started at post 173).
No, YOU broke it down to put words in my mouth to pretend like it actually happened on panel. Then you said I was interpreting shit in the manga so that it supports my argument or goes my way. That's blatant projection and you know it. You know damn well the things you post and heavily exaggerate don't actually happen on panel. I actually read the facts of the pages, hence why Jiraiya wins.

"Some things are just proven in manga, by actual scans AND Jiraiya has the DB feats to back him up. Everything is already here in the posts. It's proven. Everything you've even attempted to prove wrong is weak in comparison, Kakuzu literally has nothing to compare with Jiraiya because the gap is so obvious and there's actual on screen proof that anything Kakuzu has done Jiraiya has a superior feat of the same thing. You tried to say "no, it's not proven ur just close minded" but anyone can argue Konohamaru>Itachi and post Konohamaru's scans and try and pretend like Konohamaru is stronger calling the other person out for being stupid and close minded for not accepting their "obvious" proof and how they'll never admit when they're wrong."
Some things are meant take time to read and understand the context. Once you get better at it then you will notice how you are wrong. This also help you train to be a bit more open-minded in discussion. You don't have to result in putting words in peoples mouths to try to claim a victory in a debate.
PRO

JEKT

SHUN

"your reply, you erased that part of the post, ignoring it completely, because you couldn't respond to it. I hope you know that I can use Ctrl+F, you're not fooling me"."
Um I clearly said I was wasting my time debating to some closed minded as you so I stop, so expect this to be this to be the last or 2nd last reply then?
Well if you stop so much for all of that talk of getting the last reply on someone. I already told you like 6 posts back when you go so far to never admit defeat the debate won't actually get anywhere, because soon the debate will degenerate into stupid stuff like Kakuzu surviving mountain busters or something like that. Oh wait, it did. I was right.

Also, "not wasting my time debating you" yet STILL responding to every paragraph of my post EXCEPT the ones you blatantly can't counter and just HAPPEN to say those were the parts you erased because you didn't want to waste your time? Who would fall for that? Proof that you've been proven wrong on multiple occasions and aren't man enough to admit it, so you have to outright ignore it in your posts right there. Thanks for admitting before you abandon the debate altogether bro.

""what happens once Kakuzu's lightning mask dies or gets "submerged completely" under the swamp? It's not going to be using any jutsu. I enjoy ignoring my scan, quite black, although I expected you to ignore more things you can't counter:"
I even add more into detail with this post, this proofs you lack reading skills. But go ahead and find it gain.
""Kakuzu's masks slowly die in battle, he can't continue using all 4 of his jutsu . This is what ALL Kakuzu fans are oblivious to and fail to realize. Guess what, Kakuzu doesn't have access to all of his jutsu as long as he's alive! (You don't say?) He's dependent on his masks, which were destroyed by weak attacks like Asuma's fuuton(OR Tenten's fuuton which shouldn't make a difference) and Choji's palm smash. Once Jiraiya destroys the independent masks? Kakuzu's down a jutsu, and has even less of a way to put Jiraiya down.""
What is there to argue, where did I make a claim that he can use more jutsu up his sleeves? I already proofed you wrong that they weren't destroy by Asuma. Ten ten had the Sage weapon, so bascially you are calling the Sage weaspon fodder. And I definite Clear up Choji which you are completely denying the manga about. Your closed minded and don't want to admit wrong, deal with it and find a solution to help provent these makes again.
Ejblack dictionary: "proof(ed)" = "I was proven wrong about this but won't admit it, so instead I will pretend that I actually proved you wrong about said subject."

So now you're acting like Kakuzu won't ever lose any of his hearts, how nice. Because Kakuzu's going to be doing something halfway through the battle when Jiraiya's still able to use all of his jutsu and summon multiple massive boss summons, when Kakuzu has a TOTAL of 3 offensive jutsu and is gradually losing them throughout the battle.

 

[Slug Princess Tsunade]

I'm surprised at the poll... Jman is extremely underrated here... This is sad.

 

[Bogard]

I'm surprised at the poll... Jman is extremely underrated here... This is sad.

So true, Kakuzu is strong, but he is not defeating Jiraya

 

[Negative Knight]

I'm surprised at the poll... Jman is extremely underrated here... This is sad.

People must think Negative Knight > Jiriaya

 

[BlacLord™]

Jiraiya.

- Sage Mode (and because he uses Ryousei no Jutsu, his SM is technically unlimited)
- One of the Sannin, shares highest stats in databook.
- As much as Kakuzu's Domu is strong, it's like diamond, right? What can you do to diamonds? Grind them down. That's exactly was Rasengan does, grind things.
- Also, Ranjishigami no Jutsu, which is said to be comparable to steel could break through his Domu because steel is stronger than diamond.

Remember guys, diamond is hard, not strong.