[VS] SM Jiraiya (Me) vs Kakuzu (Zexion)

[Zexion~]

>.> The hate is real, Jiraiya's overrated as **** i see...

Will be posting my opener, later...when i do try to go easy on the spam U_U

#SanninSuck

 

[Zexion~]

Kakuzu

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Alright to start my opener i'll simply post some basic (and some not basic) Counters to SM Jiraiya's Feats, ..If base Jiraiya's feats are included, i'll counter them in a separate post, along with summons.

Ultra Big Ball Rasengan​

As are most of Jiraiya's arsenal this move was barely used at all and doesn't have much in terms of info.. However when i look back at it, it seems like its much larger than i thought...Although i still believe Domu could take this down, as it was able to tank an attack that was able to reduce a large building to rubble without much difficulty

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Is there any concrete proof that he used Domu? No...However he was clearly in the blast range and unlike Hidan he couldn't get behind a rock in time

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, as he had just taken an attack that pushed him into the ground, seconds before

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which BTW he also tanked. Domu is at times underrated (while it can be overrated as well) However thinking a Rasengan that barely scratched a V2 Susano'o

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is going to completely render Kakuzu helpless is simply not true, especially seeing that imo Kakuzu's doton roughly has the same defense capabilities as a V1-V2 Susano'o. However, i understand this was Madara's Susano'o, hence why i said Completely kill Kakuzu U_U,

HOWEVER Even if such a move did hit, you have to realize that it simply is not doing damage to Kakuzu, as you can see Kakuzu's body is made completely and entirely out of threads

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No internal organs, or anything, the only way to really wound or damage him, is to damage one of his hearts, Notice that even with suffering a wound such as

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, he was still able to fight on...Almost immediately

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, yes he lost a heart but the fact that he could continue fighting after getting a hole obliterated through his chest, that mind you also should of ran straight through his lungs...(had he had any) and a few bones proves that the only thing that actually does damage to Kakuzu, is that of wounds to the heart.... i mean lets face it the lesser form couldn't even physically dent a normal Human

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-

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-

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It simply deals explosive damage, and blunt force as well.....I understand that this is ULTRA big Rasengan, but the only difference here is that nature energy is added to the Rasengan to make it larger and have a bigger explosion effect (Says the Wiki at least, i don't have access to the DB, if you do and the entry proves me wrong by all means post it)....

Sage Art Goamon ​

Now this is a technique i know for a fact Domu can tank, as it is a technique that burns, and clearly domu has a perfectly fine time dealing with things that would normally burn the human skin

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The friction caused by the rapid spinning chouji should of burnt and singed the opponent (note the smoke), however Kakuzu came out unscathed

However if you truly don't believe that Domu could tank this, then he has other counters as well,

His

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is the first,

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As the Data Book says, its a jutsu that utilizes extreme air pressure and explosive force to crush enemies while blowing back the surroundings...There is no doubt in my mind if this was fired off at the same time as the Goamon, it would disperse the molten liquid, by either condensing it halting its advance towards Kakuzu, or by simply blowing it all away, However again i'll provide a secondary counter, its rather simple really, since this jutsu is classified as using Wind and Fire natures (Goamon) it should be nullified if Kakuzu simultaneously fired off his Katon+Fuuton jutsu, which has shown no problem busting through liquids

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So not only will it halt this jutsu but it may even break through it.....However don't let that scan fool you its size can be much greater than that

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Note that before it could even fully culminate it was already bigger than tree's that towered over humans.

Hair Needle Senbon
This really isn't even a problem, Domu tanks it effortlessly, as its merely hardened hair...However if you think that for someone reason its speed is going to catch Kakuzu off guard you are truly mistaken seeing as how the animal summon could clearly perform a summon before it even reached him

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, and Kakuzu's reactions are nothing to be scoffed at, he was able to react to a ambush by Kakashi with his fastest Technique raikiri, which we all know speeds up the user, notice how Domu was active

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or even avoid/use domu, against a close range attack that he could barely see coming, if at all until the last moment

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And Finally, one of the most overrated techniques in the NV...


Frog Song​

Seriously people act as though this technique isn't easily countered by almost everyone in the NV, for multiple reasons, first please realize the time it actually takes for the opponent to be put into this genjutsu, Not going to scan you it all, as it took a good 1 1/2 chapters, :|, Then please note that the opponent basically knows right away that the sound leads to a genjutsu

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, Another reason this is rather useless is that it travels on sound, which means basically all you need to do is keep a distance where you can't hear, it which is not that hard, the reason Pain did not do this was because they were in a sewer with pipes scattered throughout, amplifying the sound. So basically this can be countered quite easily, as you probably know Kakuzu's hearts have the ability to fly

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Another commonly known fact is that Kakuzu has the ability to merge with said hearts

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Now the fact that he can fully merge with them, basically guarantee's the fact the he can partly merge with them as well , them being made out of threads as well also cements this, as Kakuzu could simply attach threads spawning form his body

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, to them ...

Similar to how these to merged together

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Once this is complete Kakuzu could then take off, into the air high enough so that the sound would be rendered useless, as we all know the higher you elevate the more air pressure you are entering, meaning that you won't be able to hear anything from down below... Would they be going slower? Yes however as i said the jutsu takes ridiculously long to actually initiate, so this isn't a problem, now once he does this two other hearts are still free, to swoop down and bombard Jiraiya with jutsu, as they don't have ears so the genjutsu isn't working on them....

Another counter to this, is again his quite handy Fuuton. As i've shown earlier, the jutsu causes that of extreme pressure to be applied, and as i just went over extreme pressure usually causes sounds, meaning the Vibrations from the frog sond, would be lost.... IF you don't want to believe that just look at the emphasis of the SFX in the manga scan

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out of the 600 something chapters, this may be the largest in the manga, to date....Not only would this cancel out any vibrations coming to Kakuzu it would also force Jiraiya to move back, as to not get his with the jutsu itself....


Anyways that's all i really wanted to point out in my opener, will make an argument for how Kakuzu wins in my next post

[video=youtube;XNY_Hzm2bRc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNY_Hzm2bRc&list=HL1381875421[/video]​

 

[Bronze]

Kakuzu tears jiraiya apart in SM or base.

 

[Curse Mark]

I can judge if needed

 

[Zexion~]

I can judge if needed

I'm cool with it, as long as its more detailed then your last

And if Jack's good with it

 

[Shura]

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he cum here to fuk biches.

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

A wild

Spoiler

Doton yomi

appears.

It's super effective.

 

[Saiken stomps]

who's judge? Saiken stomps I choose you

 

[Curse Mark]

I'm cool with it, as long as its more detailed then your last
And if Jack's good with it

Woah, woah. Comin' at my judgin'. As long as this one actually puts up a fight, that shouldn't be an issue lol.

 

[Fireplay]

Jiraiya stomps.

 

[Headmaster]

Woah, woah. Comin' at my judgin'. As long as this one actually puts up a fight, that shouldn't be an issue lol.

you think I didn't put up a fight ^_^
Nice opening zexion. Biju you got this in the bag most of zexion's claims are bs

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[MetalGundam]

you think I didn't put up a fight ^_^
Nice opening zexion. Biju you got this in the bag most of zexion's claims are bs

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The bolded was not needed.

 

[Headmaster]

The bolded was not needed.

It was a joke. ^_^.

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

It was a joke. ^_^.

You are a joke, M'dear.

 

[Curse Mark]

You are a joke, M'dear.

why can't I rep u .__.

 

[Murasame]

Re: SM Jiraiya (Jack in The Box aka Biju Naruto) vs Kakuzu (Zexion)

Jiraiya

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First things first, I would like to say good luck to my opponent Zexion.. I hope we have a good debate. =D This is my first legitimate 1 on 1 debate so please don't expect anything amazing but I will try my best.. can't say I don't feel pressured though seeing as the majority go for Jiraiya Lol I will try my best to prove that right.. now on to my counter opening argument.

As are most of Jiraiya's arsenal this move was barely used at all and doesn't have much in terms of info.. However when i look back at it, it seems like its much larger than i thought...Although i still believe Domu could take this down, as it was able to tank an attack that was able to reduce a large building to rubble without much difficulty

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Is there any concrete proof that he used Domu? No...However he was clearly in the blast range and unlike Hidan he couldn't get behind a rock in time

You must be registered for see links

, as he had just taken an attack that pushed him into the ground, seconds before

You must be registered for see links

which BTW he also tanked. Domu is at times underrated (while it can be overrated as well) However thinking a Rasengan that barely scratched a V2 Susano'o

You must be registered for see links

is going to completely render Kakuzu helpless is simply not true, especially seeing that imo Kakuzu's doton roughly has the same defense capabilities as a V1-V2 Susano'o. However, i understand this was Madara's Susano'o, hence why i said Completely kill Kakuzu U_U,

HOWEVER Even if such a move did hit, you have to realize that it simply is not doing damage to Kakuzu, as you can see Kakuzu's body is made completely and entirely out of threads

You must be registered for see links

No internal organs, or anything, the only way to really wound or damage him, is to damage one of his hearts, Notice that even with suffering a wound such as

You must be registered for see links

, he was still able to fight on...Almost immediately

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, yes he lost a heart but the fact that he could continue fighting after getting a hole obliterated through his chest, that mind you also should of ran straight through his lungs...(had he had any) and a few bones proves that the only thing that actually does damage to Kakuzu, is that of wounds to the heart.... i mean lets face it the lesser form couldn't even physically dent a normal Human

You must be registered for see links

-

You must be registered for see links

-

You must be registered for see links

It simply deals explosive damage, and blunt force as well.....I understand that this is ULTRA big Rasengan, but the only difference here is that nature energy is added to the Rasengan to make it larger and have a bigger explosion effect (Says the Wiki at least, i don't have access to the DB, if you do and the entry proves me wrong by all means post it)....

I agree for the most part on Domu's tanking capabilities and feats but this won't help him against something like Rasengan which can also do internal damage.. while his body is mostly made up of threads he does possess internal organs such as the heart which keeps him alive.. considering the distance and the speed that Jiraiya possess in sage mode he should be able to cover this distance and land this. Without knowledge Kakuzu will use Domu as you have said to tank this without knowing that Rasengan deals internal damage. Taking into consideration that this is the Ultra Big Ball Rasengan which is not only bigger than a person [

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] it can also be formed almost instantly. Considering the size and power of the rasengan this should effectively kill all his hearts thus ending the match.. also I'd like to add the masks are on the back and I have a feeling you would say this to counter so I'll just cover this now anyways when rasengan hits a target all that force exits out from the back [

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] and this was caused by a normal rasengan just imagine ULTRA big Rasengan.. this would surely destroy all the masks which are his hearts. Taking all of this in the match is pretty much over but I'll go counter the rest of your argument.

Sage Art Goamon ​

Now this is a technique i know for a fact Domu can tank, as it is a technique that burns, and clearly domu has a perfectly fine time dealing with things that would normally burn the human skin

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

The friction caused by the rapid spinning chouji should of burnt and singed the opponent (note the smoke), however Kakuzu came out unscathed

However if you truly don't believe that Domu could tank this, then he has other counters as well,

His

You must be registered for see links

is the first,

You must be registered for see images

As the Data Book says, its a jutsu that utilizes extreme air pressure and explosive force to crush enemies while blowing back the surroundings...There is no doubt in my mind if this was fired off at the same time as the Goamon, it would disperse the molten liquid, by either condensing it halting its advance towards Kakuzu, or by simply blowing it all away, However again i'll provide a secondary counter, its rather simple really, since this jutsu is classified as using Wind and Fire natures (Goamon) it should be nullified if Kakuzu simultaneously fired off his Katon+Fuuton jutsu, which has shown no problem busting through liquids

You must be registered for see links

So not only will it halt this jutsu but it may even break through it.....However don't let that scan fool you its size can be much greater than that

You must be registered for see links

Note that before it could even fully culminate it was already bigger than tree's that towered over humans.

While a notable feat of Kakuzu's domu, it doesn't compare to the heat that Sage Art: Goemon can possibly produce.

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It can create heat up to a several thousand degrees... surely Domu won't withstand that and if it can it still won't protect his insides from getting cooked or boiled.

This jutsu as said in the databook utilizes both wind and fire natures but also water which you left out while also being strengthened by oil so I doubt Kakuzu's katon+wind jutsu let alone wind will negate this jutsu considering it has fire+wind+water+oil which are unleased in huge quantities as said in the databook.. infact it may end up strengthening it considering how wind fuels fire.. it was already countered by wind and water as shown here [

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] If you tried to use Kakuzu's water mask it is pointless as it is featless I believe. Kakuzu gets cooked Lol

Hair Needle Senbon
This really isn't even a problem, Domu tanks it effortlessly, as its merely hardened hair...However if you think that for someone reason its speed is going to catch Kakuzu off guard you are truly mistaken seeing as how the animal summon could clearly perform a summon before it even reached him

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, and Kakuzu's reactions are nothing to be scoffed at, he was able to react to a ambush by Kakashi with his fastest Technique raikiri, which we all know speeds up the user, notice how Domu was active

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or even avoid/use domu, against a close range attack that he could barely see coming, if at all until the last moment

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While Hair Needle Senbon won't hurt him directly because of Domu he can use it to pull Kakuzu towards him and hit him with a double rasengan taking a heart out or two depending on where he lands it.. Remember while having Domu active he won't be capable of moving and if he releases it he will end up getting crushed like Pain's crab summon.. either way it will be a lose lose situation.. if that doesn't kill him somehow he will surely be incapacitated.If somehow manages to put up a struggle then Ma and Pa can temporarily disable him with frog song[

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] it was so strong it immobilized two of pain's summons.. kakuzu also has no knowledge on this so he won't be able to anticipate it. Now to correct you on the rest of your claims, Animal path was already aware of Jiraiya being behind him thanks to the shared vision of the 6 Paths of Pain.. [

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][

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] Kakuzu won't have that luxury so if doesn't know Jiraiya is behind him he is getting caught.. now the last part of your post is entirely false. Kakuzu already had Domo activated beforehand.. this is the scan that came before the one you provided. [

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] Notice his reaction in the lower left corner.. it clearly displays shock because he didn't anticipate it.. this proves your reaction argument is a fallacy.

Frog Song[/U][/B][/CENTER]

Seriously people act as though this technique isn't easily countered by almost everyone in the NV, for multiple reasons, first please realize the time it actually takes for the opponent to be put into this genjutsu, Not going to scan you it all, as it took a good 1 1/2 chapters, :|, Then please note that the opponent basically knows right away that the sound leads to a genjutsu

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, [Another reason this is rather useless is that it travels on sound, which means basically all you need to do is keep a distance where you can't hear, it which is not that hard, the reason Pain did not do this was because they were in a sewer with pipes scattered throughout, amplifying the sound. So basically this can be countered quite easily, as you probably know Kakuzu's hearts have the ability to fly

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see images

Another commonly known fact is that Kakuzu has the ability to merge with said hearts

You must be registered for see links

Now the fact that he can fully merge with them, basically guarantee's the fact the he can partly merge with them as well , them being made out of threads as well also cements this, as Kakuzu could simply attach threads spawning form his body

You must be registered for see links

, to them ...

Similar to how these to merged together

You must be registered for see links

Once this is complete Kakuzu could then take off, into the air high enough so that the sound would be rendered useless, as we all know the higher you elevate the more air pressure you are entering, meaning that you won't be able to hear anything from down below... Would they be going slower? Yes however as i said the jutsu takes ridiculously long to actually initiate, so this isn't a problem, now once he does this two other hearts are still free, to swoop down and bombard Jiraiya with jutsu, as they don't have ears so the genjutsu isn't working on them....

Another counter to this, is again his quite handy Fuuton. As i've shown earlier, the jutsu causes that of extreme pressure to be applied, and as i just went over extreme pressure usually causes sounds, meaning the Vibrations from the frog sond, would be lost.... IF you don't want to believe that just look at the emphasis of the SFX in the manga scan

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out of the 600 something chapters, this may be the largest in the manga, to date....Not only would this cancel out any vibrations coming to Kakuzu it would also force Jiraiya to move back, as to not get his with the jutsu itself....

It's not called frog song lol that's a different jutsu[

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]. Anyways I actually went back to reread that chapter and the next chapter and counted to where it first started to where it finished.. I counted 10-11 pages overall depending if you counted the ones where he was thinking and that is less than a chapter not only that but all the action in between those pages were happening quickly. [

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][

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]

@bold while this is a viable counter Jiraiya can simply use food cart destroyer to stop them as they are taking flight..

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This technique is listed to be all ranges.. here is quote from narutopedia "A destructive dive that takes full advantage of a giant toad's body mass. The strength of the fall varies depending on the user. For example, in the case of someone like Jiraiya — one of the Sannin, the summon can be performed in an instant right above the target, further adding the great gravitational force of a several hundred metre-high dive to the toad's own weight" while this site is not known to be always reliable there is no mistaking that this is true since it is classified as a space time ninjutsu. Kakuzu has no knowledge so he won't be expecting this jutsu and will be squashed as he will be too late to react. I'll go ahead and counter the rest of the bold anyways.. now if this scenario was to happen Jiraiya can always use a Kage Bunshin in SM as he did here [

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] to back him up.. not only that but he can use his toad summons to provide back up giving Pa and Ma enough time to use Demonic Illusion: Toad Confrontation Chant.

While this may be able to counter the toad chant Jiraiya can prevent this from happening from having Gambunta (note I already mentioned he already has summons out in the previous paragraph) use his oil to combine and strengthen his katon jutsu to create Fire Release: Toad Oil Flame Bullet which can produce flames that can consume a summon as large as manda [

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] since wind only strengthens fire this will be blown back to Kakuzu who will be able to survive but end up getting caught by Demonic Illusion: Toad Confrontation Chant.

Sorry it took me a while I was making the post slowly throughout the day while doing other things.

 

[Murasame]

Crap part of the argument got deleted will edit and fix in a sec

 

[Booker]

Re: SM Jiraiya (Jack in The Box aka Biju Naruto) vs Kakuzu (Zexion)

Spoiler

While a notable feat of Kakuzu's domu, it doesn't compare to the heat that Sage Art: Goemon can possibly produce.

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It can create heat up to a several thousand degrees... surely Domu won't withstand that and if it can it still won't protect his insides from getting cooked or boiled.

This jutsu as said in the databook utilizes both wind and fire natures but also water which you left out while also being strengthened by oil so I doubt Kakuzu's katon+wind jutsu let alone wind will negate this jutsu considering it has fire+wind+water+oil which are unleased in huge quantities as said in the databook.. infact it may end up strengthening it considering how wind fuels fire.. it was already countered by wind and water as shown here [

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] If you tried to use Kakuzu's water mask it is pointless as it is featless I believe. Kakuzu gets cooked Lol


While Hair Needle Senbon won't hurt him directly because of Domu he can use it to pull Kakuzu towards him and hit him with a double rasengan taking a heart out or two depending on where he lands it.. Remember while having Domu active he won't be capable of moving and if he releases it he will end up getting crushed like Pain's crab summon.. either way it will be a lose lose situation.. if that doesn't kill him somehow he will surely be incapacitated.If somehow manages to put up a struggle then Ma and Pa can temporarily disable him with frog song[

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] it was so strong it immobilized two of pain's summons.. kakuzu also has no knowledge on this so he won't be able to anticipate it. Now to correct you on the rest of your claims, Animal path was already aware of Jiraiya being behind him thanks to the shared vision of the 6 Paths of Pain.. [

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][

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] Kakuzu won't have that luxury so if doesn't know Jiraiya is behind him he is getting caught.. now the last part of your post is entirely false. Kakuzu already had Domo activated beforehand.. this is the scan that came before the one you provided. [

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] Notice his reaction in the lower left corner.. it clearly displays shock because he didn't anticipate it.. this proves your reaction argument is a fallacy.


It's not called frog song lol that's a different jutsu[

You must be registered for see links

]. Anyways I actually went back to reread that chapter and the next chapter and counted to where it first started to where it finished.. I counted 10-11 pages overall depending if you counted the ones where he was thinking and that is less than a chapter not only that but all the action in between those pages were happening quickly. [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]

@bold while this is a viable counter Jiraiya can simply use food cart destroyer to stop them as they are taking flight..

You must be registered for see images

This technique is listed to be all ranges.. here is quote from narutopedia "A destructive dive that takes full advantage of a giant toad's body mass. The strength of the fall varies depending on the user. For example, in the case of someone like Jiraiya — one of the Sannin, the summon can be performed in an instant right above the target, further adding the great gravitational force of a several hundred metre-high dive to the toad's own weight" while this site is not known to be always reliable there is no mistaking that this is true since it is classified as a space time ninjutsu. Kakuzu has no knowledge so he won't be expecting this jutsu and will be squashed as he will be too late to react. I'll go ahead and counter the rest of the bold anyways.. now if this scenario was to happen Jiraiya can always use a Kage Bunshin in SM as he did here [

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] to back him up.. not only that but he can use his toad summons to provide back up giving Pa and Ma enough time to use Demonic Illusion: Toad Confrontation Chant.

While this may be able to counter the toad chant Jiraiya can prevent this from happening from having Gambunta (note I already mentioned he already has summons out in the previous paragraph) use his oil to combine and strengthen his katon jutsu to create Fire Release: Toad Oil Flame Bullet which can produce flames that can consume a summon as large as manda [

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] since wind only strengthens fire this will be blown back to Kakuzu who will be able to survive but end up getting caught by Demonic Illusion: Toad Confrontation Chant.

Sorry it took me a while I was making the post slowly throughout the day while doing other things.

I know I'm not a judge, but as just a viewer of the thread I can honestly say this response is winning.

 

[Headmaster]

Nicely done Biju.
Zexion step up. :hooray:

 

[Booker]

Nicely done Biju.
Zexion step up. :hooray:

oh shoot, that's Bijuu Bomber?

Heck I didn't even know lol