SM Hashirama vs DMS Obito

[Beans2]

Restrictions: Rikudou chakra

Obito has both his MS and can use up to V4 Susanoo

 

[TRE MERCER]

Kamui snipes. Only way Hashirama has a chance on winning is if the starting distance is 200m +​

 

[Transcendence]

I want to say Hashirama, but the prevalence of being able to warp twice as fast and snipe is strong. If Hashirama can remove line of sight right away and swap with a wood clone, I can actually see him taking this though. Forcing Obito on the defensive with Flower Tree World while keeping his line of sight covered with various Mokuton constructs could work. And then if he can get off Shinsenjuu, I don't think anything is stopping Hashirama from pounding Obito with Shinsenjuu for 5 minutes to waste the amount of time Obito can stay intangible.

 

[TRE MERCER]

I want to say Hashirama, but the prevalence of being able to warp twice as fast and snipe is strong. If Hashirama can remove line of sight right away and swap with a wood clone, I can actually see him taking this though. Forcing Obito on the defensive with Flower Tree World while keeping his line of sight covered with various Mokuton constructs could work. And then if he can get off Shinsenjuu, I don't think anything is stopping Hashirama from pounding Obito with Shinsenjuu for 5 minutes to waste the amount of time Obito can stay intangible.

Hashirama only wins if Obito gives him a chance which he won't seeing as that's his only way to win.​

 

[Omar19992010]

V4 Susano'o gets busted rather easily without the need of the SS.

Wood Golem gets the Job done easy.

Kamui Snipes won't be as fast as they are without the use of Rikudo Chakra which means Hashirama using Sage Mode sensing and evading along with the use of Wood Clones means he's not gonna get sniped or Mokuton can block Line of sight.

Intangibility gets countered with Deep Forest bloom.

Hashirama wins this rather easily.​

 

[Transcendence]

Hashirama only wins if Obito gives him a chance which he won't seeing as that's his only way to win.​

Kamui snipe GG is not exactly an argument. He doesn't have the same skill with long range Kamui like Kakashi does (since he didn't have the eye for anywhere near as long as Kakashi). It only takes less than a second for Hashirama to start flooding the field with Mokuton and blocking a Kamui warp. From then, swapping with a clone and maneuvering around a snipe should be easy.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Kamui snipe GG is not exactly an argument. He doesn't have the same skill with long range Kamui like Kakashi does (since he didn't have the eye for anywhere near as long as Kakashi). It only takes less than a second for Hashirama to start flooding the field with Mokuton and blocking a Kamui warp. From then, swapping with a clone and maneuvering around a snipe should be easy.

Obito begs to differ seeing as his first usage of long range Kamui was used to get inside Kaguya dimension which was a huge success. Not to mention with the opening room allowed it was very clutch for Obito to get perfect timing because of Kaguya's speed which RSM Naruto clones couldn't even do.(Do as in get inside Kaguya's opening)​

 

[ARGUS]

Hashirama wins this,

--any susanoo bar PS is not a factor, as SM Mokujin alone would clown his susanoo let alone SS, hashirama himself stays hidden under mokuton hobi, and can still attack obito due to the fact that hashirama can sense his whereabouts whilst he is using susanoo, so Kamui GG is not happening

--Once susanoo is down, its only a matter of time when hashiraam starts flooding the battlefield with mokutons, as Mokuton FTW covers the area with pollen making it almost impossible for obito to counterattack witout leaving him vulnerable, his warps arent cutting it when hashirama has SM sensing to sense its built up, and can either block his LoS with his mokuton, or just attack him with his mokuton clones that will be waiting for the second obito attempts to attack, so again Kamui GG is not the case

--obito isnt getting rid of the forest, and any attempt of attackin would just lead him to getting poisoned even earlier

 

[TRE MERCER]

Hashirama wins this,

--any susanoo bar PS is not a factor, as SM Mokujin alone would clown his susanoo let alone SS, hashirama himself stays hidden under mokuton hobi, and can still attack obito due to the fact that hashirama can sense his whereabouts whilst he is using susanoo, so Kamui GG is not happening

--Once susanoo is down, its only a matter of time when hashiraam starts flooding the battlefield with mokutons, as Mokuton FTW covers the area with pollen making it almost impossible for obito to counterattack witout leaving him vulnerable, his warps arent cutting it when hashirama has SM sensing to sense its built up, and can either block his LoS with his mokuton, or just attack him with his mokuton clones that will be waiting for the second obito attempts to attack, so again Kamui GG is not the case

--obito isnt getting rid of the forest, and any attempt of attackin would just lead him to getting poisoned even earlier

Juubi size katon gets rid of the wood forest. Im pretty sure his v4 Susanoo would have kamui shurikens since there his susanoo weapons which means GG Mokujin.

Remember this can all be considered if someone could accurately prove why Hashirama isn't getting sniped off rip.​

V4 Susano'o gets busted rather easily without the need of the SS.

Wood Golem gets the Job done easy.

Kamui Snipes won't be as fast as they are without the use of Rikudo Chakra which means Hashirama using Sage Mode sensing and evading along with the use of Wood Clones means he's not gonna get sniped or Mokuton can block Line of sight.

Intangibility gets countered with Deep Forest bloom.

Hashirama wins this rather easily.​

Kamui shurikens takes out the wood golem. Take away Haggy chakra and it still doesn't help your case since Kamui speed is still above Hashirama hand weaving speed and running speed. He's going to activate SM all before he gets sniped sure..... Not really when Obito can slip underground or warp himself in the air.​

 

[ARGUS]

Juubi size katon gets rid of the wood forest.​

Lol no it doesnt do shit, especially when it was neg diffd by a V1 cloak
then theres the fact that madara shot a katon directly towards his pollen yet it had no affect whatsoever
so neither does obitos,

Im pretty sure his v4 Susanoo would have kamui shurikens since there his susanoo weapons which means GG Mokujin.

hashirama can just sprout a branch to block the shurikens from getting to mokujin
as afterwards V4 gets manhandled

Remember this can all be considered if someone could accurately prove why Hashirama isn't getting sniped off rip.

​

Because his SM reflexes has canonically dodged something faster,
his SM sensing would enable him to sense its builtup and allow his to block the LoS before getting to hit,
and with his clones around which obito cant distinguish, he can jsut use them to attack obito the second he solidifes to attack

 

[KidGamer65]

Juubi size katon gets rid of the wood forest. Im pretty sure his v4 Susanoo would have kamui shurikens since there his susanoo weapons which means GG Mokujin.

Remember this can all be considered if someone could accurately prove why Hashirama isn't getting sniped off rip.


Kamui shurikens takes out the wood golem. Take away Haggy chakra and it still doesn't help your case since Kamui speed is still above Hashirama hand weaving speed and running speed. He's going to activate SM all before he gets sniped sure..... Not really when Obito can slip underground or warp himself in the air.​

Nope. Kamui Shuriken is only possible when Kakashi has Rikudo's Chakra. Kakashi made that clear when he used them, and then said "as I thought, Rikudo's power has increased the strength of these eyes". Lmao. Not to mention it's a PS weapon. Not a V4 Susanoo weapon.

 

[TheSages456]

obito post juubi never had six paths chakra to begin with, so its a pointless restriction. his eyes were enhanced from when he did have six paths chakra as a juubi jinchuriki. the chakra pushed his eyes to new heights. we the the result of his empowered eyes with kakashi.

i feel like in order for any honest debating to go on in a kamui thread, the myths revolving around kamui, especially 2 eyed kamui need to be debunked.
its more likely that people simply wont listen and just continue to believe what they want to believe though, but whatever.
nonetheless im just going to debunk kamui myths which shouldnt even be necessary since the jutsu isnt hard to understand.


there is no such thing as a 2x speed long range kamui snipe. one eye possesses short range kamui and the other possesses long range kamui. i dont know where that even came from.

here we see obito utilizing the 2 powers of kamui.

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however, he is using the long range kamui to synchronize with kaguyas portal.

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and here, he uses the short range kamui to teleport himself, naruto and sakura.

the manga implied nothing about 2x long range kamui here.


moving on, next up is this instance

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this is also not 2x speed long range kamui.
this is a specific application of kamui only possible with 2 eyes.
the user can open portals to other dimensions. with this specific application of kamui, nothing is being warped, so this being any argument for 2x speed long range kamui is nothing but nonsense.


then we have kakashi here after gaining obitos chakra.

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who only uses the left eye of kamui(long range variant) when warping kaguyas bone and portal further cementing the fact that both kamui eyes possess different powers.

the obvious conclusion is that 2x speed long range kamui is a myth and a ridiculous one at that.

oh and to clarify, stronger chakra=/=faster kamui warp. that isnt stated nor shown by feats. no, kaguyas bones are not lightning fast as obito and kakashi were able to run right in front of them from this distance away

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under enhanced gravity after they were fired, so kakashi warping kaguyas bone doesnt prove anything. 1 ms war arc kakashi would be capable of replicating that feat.

whats stated and shown is that stronger chakra=able to warp bigger things.


hashirama obviously wins. V4 susano is irrelevant. the mokujin can combat and restrain PS. the mokujin simply overpowers V4 susano. the flower world 100% guarantees the win for hashirama although it isnt 100% necessary to beat obito in cqc situations.
madaras juubi sized katon did not instantly incinerate the mokuton that it came into contact with and it didnt affect the flower worlds pollen. obitos katons cannot counter mokuton.
you could completely unrestrict obito and he would still lose.

 

[Kushina san]

Well this is a Obito ff, since in the manga has not been seen ever use Susanoo etc.

But wins Hashirama

 

[MickNerks]

Obito wins with Mid Diff

Hashirama is no where near as fast as Minato,

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.

Since both Hashirama and Obito have histories of starting their battles with taijutsu it only makes since that they would in this battle, where obito would have the upper hand with kamui.

Hashirama loses due to lack of intel. I think some of you guys are taking this battle farther then it should go, there is no reason this should even get to the point where they are using susanoo's and wood golems. Even suggesting hashirama would get far enough to use sage mode in this battle is a stretch. This battle would start and end with taijutsu, as all of their on panel battles have started

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[EZQ]

Why are everyone giving Obito Kakashi's speed feats with kamui?

As far as long range kamui sniping is concerned, the only one that has shown to be fast with it is Kakashi, Obito only used long range kamui one time and then he died, so we can't know if he can use kamui as fast as kakashi does.

If Obito uses kamui as fast and Kakashi then Kamui snipe GG. Sensing the chakra build up wouldn't work since that build up lasts less than Susano arrows at 15 mts of distance.

 

[Apêx1]

Obito takes this high diff.