SM Hashirama vs BM Naruto

[RustledJimmies]

Nardo murderstomps, in fact, I can see him taking it with Shinsuusenju unrestricted.

 

[KidGamer65]

Nardo murderstomps, in fact, I can see him taking it with Shinsuusenju unrestricted.

Most definitely not.

 

[Izanamı.]

Nardo murderstomps, in fact, I can see him taking it with Shinsuusenju unrestricted.

:| Chojo Kebutsu GG​

 

[RustledJimmies]

Most definitely not.

I think we can both agree that anything that isn't Shinsuusenju is pretty much irrelevant here, as Mokujin, Mokuryu, etc. all get wrecked by Bijuu Dama, so I'll just skip to Shinsuusenju.

Well, Naruto and Bee's combined Bijuu Dama resulted in a crater

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big, Naruto contributed to at least half of that, likely even more than Bee did, even if that's not the case, half of that is still comfortably larger than Shinsuusenju, and considering that PS blades in standard Bijuu Dama could cut SS's arms like butter [

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], the Bijuu Dama should be able to at least take down its arms like it happened after the exchange between Iso Susano'o and Shinsuusenju, if not take it down as a whole. You could argue that SS would just be able to toss it back at Naruto, but nothing stops Naruto from firing it to the ground nearby Shinsuusenju. As for charging it, he could charge a Bijuu Dama this big in pretty much a second [

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]-[

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], so charging isn't really a problem, and Naruto can always protect himself with his tails to get some time, not that it's actually needed.

 

[KingHashirama]

Didn't know that a slap to the face is going to magically cause the Bijuu Dama to vanish. Lol. It slaps him, then Naruto fires it right in it's face and blows it to shit along with it's owners.



The gate has to be able to come down and pin Naruto before he can fire his Flash Bijuu Dama, or his Continuous Bijuu Dama, and even if that happens, Naruto simply puts down the Avatar, recalls it and then let's Bijuu Dama loose on Hashirama.


Tell me how he'll catch a Bijuu Dama that dwarfs Bijuu and stop with the vague argumentation.



The same old shitty scenarios where Naruto does the same thing over and over again knowing it'll turn out bad for him are getting pretty old.

Then you don't know how a bijuu dama is made? Is tbb not charged at the mouth? And also, he doesn't need to destroy it either, just divert the direction.. Like Naruto did to the other tailed beasts

- puts down the avatar, Hashirama hits wood dragon.. destroys wood dragon? hits the gates again.. So yea. The transforming back into normal is a weak argument when Hashirama can constantly spam it. He can also perform the Hokage-Shiki Jijun Jutsu — Kakuan Nitten Suishu on Naruto and messing the BM that way. And then you have the Wood clone +Mayfly combo and jukai kauton. You were assuming Hashirama just stares at him and lets him go back to BM.. Like Madara did?

- Lets compare the TBB sizes then shall we, now i can be wrong on this, but from what has been provided it makes sense:

Spoiler

The gates, size of Madara and Hashirama's structures, the Bijuu damas, and the small tree obito summoned, and the gates that held down Juubi:

Spoiler

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Juubi's size with the gates:

Spoiler

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^^ Hashirama and Madara's structures were about the same height as the Juubi standing up.


The size of Hachibi's tbb and hachibi ( the Size of BM Narutos' normal tbb is the same as Hachibi's normal TBB) compared to the Juubi :

Spoiler

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Size of the tailed beast bomb done by the combined other tailed beasts (this is about double or triple their size):

Spoiler

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At the end you will notice that Hashirama's statue has the size to push back the tbb against Naruto. He doesn't need to hold it like a rasengan, like he did to make it hit Kyuubi.. but simply needs to push to back at them.

- Only issue is you are the one who thinks Naruto is doing the samething over.. or that I'm claiming he is..

I think we can both agree that anything that isn't Shinsuusenju is pretty much irrelevant here, as Mokujin, Mokuryu, etc. all get wrecked by Bijuu Dama, so I'll just skip to Shinsuusenju.

Well, Naruto and Bee's combined Bijuu Dama resulted in a crater

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big, Naruto contributed to at least half of that, likely even more than Bee did, even if that's not the case, half of that is still comfortably larger than Shinsuusenju, and considering that PS blades in standard Bijuu Dama could cut SS's arms like butter [

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], the Bijuu Dama should be able to at least take down its arms like it happened after the exchange between Iso Susano'o and Shinsuusenju, if not take it down as a whole. You could argue that SS would just be able to toss it back at Naruto, but nothing stops Naruto from firing it to the ground nearby Shinsuusenju. As for charging it, he could charge a Bijuu Dama this big in pretty much a second [

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]-[

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], so charging isn't really a problem, and Naruto can always protect himself with his tails to get some time, not that it's actually needed.

Or the shinjuu grabs the tbbs?

The reason PS sword + Tbb worked was because Hashirama can't grab those.

 

[KidGamer65]

Then you don't know how a bijuu dama is made? Is tbb not charged at the mouth? And also, he doesn't need to destroy it either, just divert the direction.. Like Naruto did to the other tailed beasts

- puts down the avatar, Hashirama hits wood dragon.. destroys wood dragon? hits the gates again.. So yea. The transforming back into normal is a weak argument when Hashirama can constantly spam it. He can also perform the Hokage-Shiki Jijun Jutsu — Kakuan Nitten Suishu on Naruto and messing the BM that way. And then you have the Wood clone +Mayfly combo and jukai kauton. You were assuming Hashirama just stares at him and lets him go back to BM.. Like Madara did?

Kakuan Nitten Suishu isn't happening. Hashirama needs to come up close, and if he does that he gets blown away by Naruto's Bijuu Dama. The only weak argument I'm seeing is "Hashirama constantly spams gates", when Naruto can just keep on avoiding them and he can continue to put his Avatar up, or he can partially form the Avatar like he did against Obito when he fired the Bijuu Dama.

Hashirama can stare or act. Doesn't matter. He won't stop Naruto from re entering Bijuu Mode.

Wood Clone and Mayfly combo? What the hell? Lol. Not doing anything to Kurama Mode Naruto, same with Jukai Kotan considering Naruto stopped it in Base w/ a piece of Kurama's chakra.

- Lets compare the TBB sizes then shall we, now i can be wrong on this, but from what has been provided it makes sense:

Spoiler

The gates, size of Madara and Hashirama's structures, the Bijuu damas, and the small tree obito summoned, and the gates that held down Juubi:

Spoiler

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Juubi's size with the gates:

Spoiler

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^^ Hashirama and Madara's structures were about the same height as the Juubi standing up.


The size of Hachibi's tbb and hachibi ( the Size of BM Narutos' normal tbb is the same as Hachibi's normal TBB) compared to the Juubi :

Spoiler

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Size of the tailed beast bomb done by the combined other tailed beasts (this is about double or triple their size):

Spoiler

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At the end you will notice that Hashirama's statue has the size to push back the tbb against Naruto. He doesn't need to hold it like a rasengan, like he did to make it hit Kyuubi.. but simply needs to push to back at them.

- Only issue is you are the one who thinks Naruto is doing the samething over.. or that I'm claiming he is..

Being larger than the Bijuu Dama isn't proof that it can push the Bijuu Dama back. It still has to be strong enough to do so, and no feat says that it is.

I think we can both agree that anything that isn't Shinsuusenju is pretty much irrelevant here, as Mokujin, Mokuryu, etc. all get wrecked by Bijuu Dama, so I'll just skip to Shinsuusenju.

Well, Naruto and Bee's combined Bijuu Dama resulted in a crater this big, Naruto contributed to at least half of that, likely even more than Bee did, even if that's not the case, half of that is still comfortably larger than Shinsuusenju, and considering that PS blades in standard Bijuu Dama could cut SS's arms like butter [X], the Bijuu Dama should be able to at least take down its arms like it happened after the exchange between Iso Susano'o and Shinsuusenju, if not take it down as a whole. You could argue that SS would just be able to toss it back at Naruto, but nothing stops Naruto from firing it to the ground nearby Shinsuusenju. As for charging it, he could charge a Bijuu Dama this big in pretty much a second [1]-[2], so charging isn't really a problem, and Naruto can always protect himself with his tails to get some time, not that it's actually needed.

Charging a Bijuu Dama that size in a second doesn't really help you since Naruto would need to make a Bijuu Dama that completely dwarfs the size of that or his Flash Bijuu Dama in order to create an explosion that takes up half of that crater...and even then that's assuming that this logic works. Each of the 5 Bijuu contributed to the combo Bijuu Dama, but none of them or any other Bijuu on their level for that matter has shown the capability to use anything above a standard Bijuu Dama, and 5 Standards are inferior to that giant one. Killer B definitely isn't making a Bijuu Dama anywhere near the size of the combo one, yet he was able to provide a bulk of the energy for said Bijuu Dama.

Either way, SS can catch it. As for your counter to that point, that depends on the distance between SS and Naruto. If it's close, then SS will be able to extend it's arms and still grab it. If not, then Naruto would probably end up killing himself since a point blank explosion with a Bijuu Dama half the strength of the combo one from Killer B and him is far beyond what he can tank. Point blank anyway.

Then there's the fact Naruto isn't going to be able to charge or aim a Bijuu Dama while he's being pounded into the dirt by Chojo Kebutsu, nor is he making a Bijuu Dama anywhere near the size or power you are implying he will, in anywhere near a second.

 

[RustledJimmies]

Or the shinjuu
The reason PS sword + Tbb worked was because Hashirama can't grab those.

Or you could read my post, because I already countered that bit.

Edit: Will reply to you, KG, gimme a minute.

Charging a Bijuu Dama that size in a second doesn't really help you since Naruto would need to make a Bijuu Dama that completely dwarfs the size of that or his Flash Bijuu Dama in order to create an explosion that takes up half of that crater...and even then that's assuming that this logic works.

It only needs to be half as big as

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, that Bijuu Dama is around 5 times bigger than the Kyuubi (minus the tails) in both height and width, take half of that away, and you'll have a Bijuu Dama about 2.5 (likely a bit less) bigger than Naruto's avatar, considering Naruto created one slightly bigger than a Bijuu in about a second, so 2-5 seconds should be about as long as it should take to form one that size.

P.S.: this is just the approximate time it should take to form the Bijuu Dama, it isn't an exact science.

And why wouldn't this logic work? Naruto contributed to at least half of it, did he not? Unless Killer Bee has more power than BM Naruto (which we know is not true), there's nothing to argue against.

Each of the 5 Bijuu contributed to the combo Bijuu Dama, but none of them or any other Bijuu on their level for that matter has shown the capability to use anything above a standard Bijuu Dama, and 5 Standards are inferior to that giant one.

That only shows that they didn't use their full power before that, if they can all contribute to one huge Bijuu Dama, then they should have the capability to individually make one 1/5 (assuming they all contributed equally to the huge Bijuu Dama) the size of that one Bijuu Dama, after all, they can't give power they don't have, and contributing to half of something requires you to have enough power to use that half.

Either way, SS can catch it.

We'll see.

As for your counter to that point, that depends on the distance between SS and Naruto. If it's close, then SS will be able to extend it's arms and still grab it. If not, then Naruto would probably end up killing himself since a point blank explosion with a Bijuu Dama half the strength of the combo one from Killer B and him is far beyond what he can tank. Point blank anyway.

I think you mean long range instead of close, otherwise this wouldn't make much sense, anyway, considering how fast Kurama's TBB crossed an ocean, Naruto's flash Bijuu Dama crossed about half of

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(take perspective into account, of course), and how fast a bigger Bijuu Dama crossed [

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] and SS's lack of speed feats, I doubt it's extending and catching it in time. And I also have a hard time believing that SS can catch something about half as big as its main body (if not more), considering a miniscule Bijuu Dama (at least compared to KN4's size) from KN4 was quite a bit heavier than he was, to the point of smashing the ground [

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]-[

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], that speaks a lot for the weight of a Bijuu Dama that's more than twice the size of a Bijuu.

I agree that Naruto dies if he fires it at point blank range, though.

Then there's the fact Naruto isn't going to be able to charge or aim a Bijuu Dama while he's being pounded into the dirt by Chojo Kebutsu,

Well, the Kurama Avatar has way better speed feats than Shinsuusenju, so Naruto can outrun it with ease, and if Naruto can get his feat of separating himself from the Avatar (from the last movie), he can just leave the Avatar holding Shinsuusenju down long enough for Naruto to Shunshin away a considerable distance, and then he deactivates the Avatar, activates it again, charges the Bijuu Dama and fires it, if not, then the former tactic still works.

nor is he making a Bijuu Dama anywhere near the size or power you are implying he will, in anywhere near a second.

Already covered this bit earlier in my post.

 

[Omar19992010]

Hashirama wins this.

Any Bijuudama fired gets redirected or slapped right back at Naruto.

God Gates Disrupt Naruto from charging up his Bijuudama.

Hashirama should technically be able to outlast War-Arc BM Naruto and Hashirama constantly draining Chakra from him.

Wood Golem was able to stalemate Madara's PS which means it can easily hold it's own against Naruto Kurama avatar and Mokuton is sort of like a Bijuu's Kryptonite.

 

[KingHashirama]

Kakuan Nitten Suishu isn't happening. Hashirama needs to come up close, and if he does that he gets blown away by Naruto's Bijuu Dama. The only weak argument I'm seeing is "Hashirama constantly spams gates", when Naruto can just keep on avoiding them and he can continue to put his Avatar up, or he can partially form the Avatar like he did against Obito when he fired the Bijuu Dama.

Wood clone from under.. not that hard. How does he avoid them if the Juubi's jinchuriki wasn't able to avoid their drop.. the wank on Naruto's inconsistant speed is not good enough to make a good argument. He can't put his avatar up, if they are the ones Hashi-boy put on Obito..

Partially formed bijuu dama at Hashirama? too easy to avoid..... You are making it seem like Bijuu dama's are gonna be hard for Hashirama to avoid.. lol.

Hashirama can stare or act. Doesn't matter. He won't stop Naruto from re entering Bijuu Mode.

The gates will don't worry.

Wood Clone and Mayfly combo? What the hell? Lol. Not doing anything to Kurama Mode Naruto, same with Jukai Kotan considering Naruto stopped it in Base w/ a piece of Kurama's chakra.

Naruto stopped Edo Madara's Jukai Kotan that he stopped, while he could've just kept spamming it.. try another argument on this bro and didn't bother taking advantage of the jukai kotan either. .. :yeah:

Mayfly combo and wood clone not doing anything? is that a joke bro?

Wood clones = Naruto has 0 way of seperating the real Hashirama from the fake one. And Unlike Naruto's clones, Hashirama can put all his power into a clone and telepathically connect with each other allowing them to perform the 6 paths of pain vision thing , while Hashirama himself not actually fighting. Mayfly, allows the wood clones to merge into the ground and merge from anywhere , especially if Hashirama spams the Jukai kotan.

Being larger than the Bijuu Dama isn't proof that it can push the Bijuu Dama back. It still has to be strong enough to do so, and no feat says that it is.

So show me how The Flash Bijuu dama is more powerful than the one Hashirama had in his hand.

Or you could read my post, because I already countered that bit.
.

you are also leaving out the fact this was a tbb they charged for a minute or so, and tried to make it as big as they could, to put all of their energy in it or so. And if Hashirama or someone like MAdara had just put a wood dragon on Naruto and B.. that would've disrupted that charge, due to their chakra being messed with.

And that my friend took time. Time is not something Hashrima will grant Naruto.. hell any elite person of that calibar isn't gonna stand there and let Kurama charge a tbb like that.

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[RustledJimmies]

Hashirama wins this.

Any Bijuudama fired gets redirected or slapped right back at Naruto.

God Gates Disrupt Naruto from charging up his Bijuudama.

Hashirama should technically be able to outlast War-Arc BM Naruto and Hashirama constantly draining Chakra from him.

Wood Golem was able to stalemate Madara's PS which means it can easily hold it's own against Naruto Kurama avatar and Mokuton is sort of like a Bijuu's Kryptonite.

Or Naruto fires 5 continuous Bijuu Dama, considering how fast Naruto fires them, Hashi won't use the gates before they are fired, and Mokujin only has two hands, so that's as much as it can catch, the other three obliterate it.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Naruto wins.

Mokujin is weak really weak. ​

 

[Unorthodox]

Naruto negs Mokujin gets blasted

 

[KidGamer65]

O


It only needs to be half as big as

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, that Bijuu Dama is around 5 times bigger than the Kyuubi (minus the tails) in both height and width, take half of that away, and you'll have a Bijuu Dama about 2.5 (likely a bit less) bigger than Naruto's avatar, considering Naruto created one slightly bigger than a Bijuu in about a second, so 2-5 seconds should be about as long as it should take to form one that size.

Which is more than enough time for Hashirama to interrupt it.

P.S.: this is just the approximate time it should take to form the Bijuu Dama, it isn't an exact science.

And why wouldn't this logic work? Naruto contributed to at least half of it, did he not? Unless Killer Bee has more power than BM Naruto (which we know is not true), there's nothing to argue against.



That only shows that they didn't use their full power before that, if they can all contribute to one huge Bijuu Dama, then they should have the capability to individually make one 1/5 (assuming they all contributed equally to the huge Bijuu Dama) the size of that one Bijuu Dama, after all, they can't give power they don't have, and contributing to half of something requires you to have enough power to use that half.

Absolutely not. If any Bijuu could use anything greater than a standard Bijuu Dama, then it would've been shown at least once by anyone besides the Juubi and Kurama. At least once. B has used it god knows how many times, and it's always been the same size. Then there's the fact that if B could really form a Bijuu Dama anywhere near the power of the energy he himself contributed to the giant combo Bijuu Dama, he wouldn't be wanking Kurama for things like

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, when that Flash Bijuu Dama is dwarfed by a fourth of the combo one.

I think you mean long range instead of close, otherwise this wouldn't make much sense, anyway, considering how fast Kurama's TBB crossed an ocean, Naruto's flash Bijuu Dama crossed about half of

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(take perspective into account, of course), and how fast a bigger Bijuu Dama crossed [

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] and SS's lack of speed feats, I doubt it's extending and catching it in time. And I also have a hard time believing that SS can catch something about half as big as its main body (if not more), considering a miniscule Bijuu Dama (at least compared to KN4's size) from KN4 was quite a bit heavier than he was, to the point of smashing the ground [

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]-[

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], that speaks a lot for the weight of a Bijuu Dama that's more than twice the size of a Bijuu.

The ocean one is a good feat, the distance between the Bijuu and Naruto isn't that vast, so the feat isn't really that good. Either way, it's irrelevant. Kurama's Bijuu Dama was caught by Mokujin, the same Bijuu Dama that crossed the ocean in a second, so there is no way the superior SS isn't going to be able to grab it. Then there's the fact that Madara's Bijuu Dama Barrage and Hashirama's Chojo Kebutsu hit each other and blew up at the same time. If the Bijuu Dama were moving faster, they would've hit the arms and torn them apart before the arms ever reached PS Kyuubi. So that means SS strikes as fast as Kurama's Bijuu Dama moves. It's lack of speed feats only comes from it's movement speed, not it's striking speed.

Mokujin caught a small Bijuu Dama w/ one hand. SS is stronger, far stronger, and has 1000 hands. The size and weight difference between Naruto's Bijuu Dama and the small Bijuu Dama the vastly inferior construct caught isn't going to prevent something that's larger, stronger, and with 1000x more hands (thus 1000x the lifting power) from catching it. Then there's the fact it snatched Full Kurama up with one hand, with ease. x1000 for 1000 hands.

Well, the Kurama Avatar has way better speed feats than Shinsuusenju, so Naruto can outrun it with ease, and if Naruto can get his feat of separating himself from the Avatar (from the last movie), he can just leave the Avatar holding Shinsuusenju down long enough for Naruto to Shunshin away a considerable distance, and then he deactivates the Avatar, activates it again, charges the Bijuu Dama and fires it, if not, then the former tactic still works.

People used to use this argument, but it's not happening.

SS>Mokujin>Madara's PS>Sasuke's PS when it comes to striking speed, based on feats of the weakest construct in the food chain tagging Juubito. If Juubito couldn't outrun a slower attack from a weaker construct, then Naruto isn't going to outrun the faster construct when he's slower, not to mention the Avatar doesn't even have speed feats that'd let it evade 1000 fists that move at least as fast as a Bijuu Dama that crosses the ocean in a matter of seconds, that also span across a whole Mountain's worth of distance due to the sheer size. The only thing it can do is outrun the statue in a race, not evade it's strikes. The fact that Hashirama has Sage Mode sensing to help him just like Naruto did against Juubito only makes it worse for him. He tries to run, and gets a fist in his face.

And no, Naruto doesn't get his feat from the Movie. Naruto logically shouldn't get any feats from The Last since an older Naruto post Rikudo's power up w/ 2 years of training>>>A younger Naruto pre Rikudo's power up.

 

[RustledJimmies]

Shit, didn't get any quote notifications, just saw this.

Which is more than enough time for Hashirama to interrupt it.

I doubt it, considering Naruto survived a laser that casually overpowered 9 standard Bijuu Dama's with no damage aside from 6 destroyed tails, Shinsuusenju's strongest attack is equal to 11, unless you think that 2 more standard Bijuu Dama would be enough to make a difference against the laser, the laser is stronger than Chojo Kebutsu, so no, it isn't taking down the tails and disrupting Bijuu Dama's charge time before it's completely charged, definitely not in that small amount of time.

Absolutely not. If any Bijuu could use anything greater than a standard Bijuu Dama, then it would've been shown at least once by anyone besides the Juubi and Kurama. At least once. B has used it god knows how many times, and it's always been the same size. Then there's the fact that if B could really form a Bijuu Dama anywhere near the power of the energy he himself contributed to the giant combo Bijuu Dama, he wouldn't be wanking Kurama for things like this, when that Flash Bijuu Dama is dwarfed by a fourth of the combo one.

Not at all, this is bad logic at its finest, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, the Bijuu not using a Bijuu Dama bigger than the standard one isn't proof that they can't, whilst contributing to a fraction of a Bijuu Dama is proof that they can make a Bijuu Dama as big as that fraction, how can you even contribute to a fraction of something if you can't use that fraction by yourself? That hardly makes any sense, you can't give something you don't have, that's like putting two bottles worth of water in a can, and saying that one bottle can't fill half of that. If Naruto contributed to half of the Bijuu Dama (even though he probably contributed more, assuming they were trying to make it as big as they could, but let's just say half [low end] because we don't really know how much he contributed) then he obviously can make one half as big as that, you gave me zero reasons to believe otherwise.

Bee "wanking" Kurama's feat doesn't mean anything here, he wanked its skill, because it hit the bottom of the other Bijuu Dama, forcing it to rise, and the scale, which also doesn't mean much because:

1- Praising someone isn't the same as wanking, nor does it indicate that he can't replicate that feat.

2- We have no idea how much Bee contributed to that Bijuu Dama, unlike Naruto, who we both that contributed to at least half (low end), Bee could have contributed to a negligible amount (unlikely though) all the way to half (which is also unlikely, but more likely than the former), who knows?

The ocean one is a good feat, the distance between the Bijuu and Naruto isn't that vast, so the feat isn't really that good. Either way, it's irrelevant.

While it's not as good as the ocean feat, it's still a few hundred meters, but meh, doesn't really matter.

Kurama's Bijuu Dama was caught by Mokujin, the same Bijuu Dama that crossed the ocean in a second, so there is no way the superior SS isn't going to be able to grab it.

Kurama's Bijuu Dama was coming in Hashirama's direction (where Mokujin was spawned), in this case, it will be thrown nearby SS, which can be beside it, meaning that SS ill have to stretch to grab it, and I think I don't need to tell you that grabbing a ball that's coming towards your direction isn't the same as grabbing a ball that's coming a few meters to your right/left.

Then there's the fact that Madara's Bijuu Dama Barrage and Hashirama's Chojo Kebutsu hit each other and blew up at the same time.

The Bijuu Dama's blew up at the same time Chojo Kebutsu hit Iso Susano'o Kyuubi, doesn't mean that Bijuu Dama reached, Bijuu Dama flew past most of the arms and cut some before they actually landed on Kurama

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, some arms in that scan have already reached Kurama, but you can clearly see that the Bijuu Dama flew past most of them before they actually hit Kurama, to the point of of cutting some that wwere coming before they reached it.

If the Bijuu Dama were moving faster, they would've hit the arms and torn them apart before the arms ever reached PS Kyuubi.

Which they did, but the PS blades were clearly not enough to take out all arms.

So that means SS strikes as fast as Kurama's Bijuu Dama moves.

Not a chance.

Mokujin caught a small Bijuu Dama w/ one hand. SS is stronger, far stronger, and has 1000 hands. The size and weight difference between Naruto's Bijuu Dama and the small Bijuu Dama the vastly inferior construct caught isn't going to prevent something that's larger, stronger, and with 1000x more hands (thus 1000x the lifting power) from catching it. Then there's the fact it snatched Full Kurama up with one hand, with ease. x1000 for 1000 hands.

Ok, let's assume Shinsuusenju will intercept it (not saying it will), and that it will be strong enough to catch it. If Naruto fires a Bijuu Dama that big, and Shinsuusenju catches it, I'm pretty sure Shinsuusenju will just slap it away, it will need most, if not all of its hands to grab it, and once it does, it will have to throw it back at Naruto, and once it grabs the Bijuu Dama, what stops Naruto from firing a smaller one (considering he can form them nearly instantly) against the previously thrown Bijuu Dama and blowing it up on Shinsuusenju's face? Or firing it just right after firing the huge one? Either way, both Bijuu Dama would blow up on contact, and would obliterate Shinsuusenju along with Hashirama.

SS>Mokujin>Madara's PS>Sasuke's PS when it comes to striking speed, based on feats of the weakest construct in the food chain tagging Juubito. If Juubito couldn't outrun a slower attack from a weaker construct, then Naruto isn't going to outrun the faster construct when he's slower, not to mention the Avatar doesn't even have speed feats that'd let it evade 1000 fists that move at least as fast as a Bijuu Dama that crosses the ocean in a matter of seconds, that also span across a whole Mountain's worth of distance due to the sheer size. The only thing it can do is outrun the statue in a race, not evade it's strikes. The fact that Hashirama has Sage Mode sensing to help him just like Naruto did against Juubito only makes it worse for him. He tries to run, and gets a fist in his face.

I wonder where you took the bold from, last I checked, the only thing Mokujin did against PS was block its sword, which doesn't prove anything at all, as V4 Susano'o canonically blocked Mokujin's strike. And Sasuke's PS has never swung its blade. Ever. The only time it hit Juubito, Juubito was stationary and didn't try to evade. PS never tagged Juubito, an enhanced V3 did, it's only logical that a construct as big as a mountain is slower than one as big as a Bijuu with a Senjutsu boost - Not to mention that Sasuke predicted Juubito's movement with Sharingan's precog, that's why Susano'o was able to hit him.

And I see nothing that proves that Shinsuusenju's striking speed is superior to everyone else's here, the only thing it has is a shit load of arms, while they aren't slow at all, there's no proof that it's faster than the other ones.

There's also the fact that Juubito was pretty much flying around them, the Avatar will be literally trying to run away here, and considering that Shinsuusenju lacks movement speed feats (something even you admitted earlier in this post), it isn't catching up to the Avatar any time soon. But then again, there's the AoE of the arms, but I doubt they're obliterating the avatar before it can get a considerable distance from the statue, and there's also the fact that they're not gonna be summoned right in front of each other.

And no, Naruto doesn't get his feat from the Movie. Naruto logically shouldn't get any feats from The Last since an older Naruto post Rikudo's power up w/ 2 years of training>>>A younger Naruto pre Rikudo's power up.

Point taken.

I apologize for any typos, my current keyboard is complete shit.

 

[KingHashirama]

Naruto negs Mokujin gets blasted

How does he neg mokujin? If Madara's PS couldn't Neg Mokujin.

 

[Dondaime Hokage Naruto]

Hashirama wins mid dif at most. Hashirama's chakra also is full Kuubi lvl chakra and maybe more. Hashi wood clone compared Minato+Naruto+Full Kurama chakra to his own. Also Mokuton is the BM Avatar's weakness. Just look what Edo Madara's wood dragon did to BM Naruto.

 

[GiantShuriken]

Hashi basically absorbs all of narutos chakra and it basically becomes hashirama vs base naruro

 

[KidGamer65]

Shit, didn't get any quote notifications, just saw this

Yeah, that quote shit doesn't work really weel.

I doubt it, considering Naruto survived a laser that casually overpowered 9 standard Bijuu Dama's with no damage aside from 6 destroyed tails, Shinsuusenju's strongest attack is equal to 11, unless you think that 2 more standard Bijuu Dama would be enough to make a difference against the laser, the laser is stronger than Chojo Kebutsu, so no, it isn't taking down the tails and disrupting Bijuu Dama's charge time before it's completely charged, definitely not in that small amount of time.

Who said he has to destroy the Avatar to interrupt it? Naruto's tails are going to protect him from damage, but it's not going to change the fact that he'll be pinned under a constant barrage of fists. No charging up or firing Bijuu Dama.

Not at all, this is bad logic at its finest, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, the Bijuu not using a Bijuu Dama bigger than the standard one isn't proof that they can't,

Lol. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence when there is no positive evidence for the assertion in question, which would be that the Bijuu can supercharge their Bijuu Dama, despite only 2 Bijuu showing it. The strongest out of the pack, and the Juubi, nor do you have any conclusive evidence as to why they can do so.

The logic you are using here is flawed beyond belief.

whilst contributing to a fraction of a Bijuu Dama is proof that they can make a Bijuu Dama as big as that fraction, how can you even contribute to a fraction of something if you can't use that fraction by yourself? That hardly makes any sense, you can't give something you don't have, that's like putting two bottles worth of water in a can, and saying that one bottle can't fill half of that.

Proof for the bold? Having enough energy doesn't mean that you can form said energy into a Bijuu Dama on your own. If I used this logic, every Bijuu would be able to make super charged, gigantic Bijuu Dama using most if not all of their energy, yet no Bijuu can do that. They can't pour whatever amount of energy they want into their own Bijuu Dama. Contributing chakra for a combination one, where two people are forming it and not one, isn't evidence that one can form one on their own.

If I used your logic, cause Naruto and B have the energy, they could've used a Bijuu Dama FAR stronger than the full power, all out, one they used against the Gedo Mazo, but they didn't, because every Bijuu has it's limits on it's own, and the rest are far below Kurama in that regard.

If Naruto contributed to half of the Bijuu Dama (even though he probably contributed more, assuming they were trying to make it as big as they could, but let's just say half [low end] because we don't really know how much he contributed) then he obviously can make one half as big as that, you gave me zero reasons to believe otherwise.

Read above.

Bee "wanking" Kurama's feat doesn't mean anything here, he wanked its skill, because it hit the bottom of the other Bijuu Dama, forcing it to rise, and the scale, which also doesn't mean much because:

Oh christ. This shows you either misunderstood, or didn't even bother to read the panel, or you just ignored it.

1- Praising someone isn't the same as wanking, nor does it indicate that he can't replicate that feat.

Lol, why are you getting hung up on my wording? Not important. What's important is what B said, which is what you failed to read.

"He was skillfull....but, his attacks have incredible scale" "The Kyuubi is strong after all"

Killer B obviously wouldn't be sitting here, showing surprise at the level of Kurama's attacks if he could replicate something on par or larger, please don't try and insinuate otherwise. Obito's Bijuu obviously would've made a larger Bijuu Dama during their combo if they could, and your argument implies that they can.

2- We have no idea how much Bee contributed to that Bijuu Dama, unlike Naruto, who we both that contributed to at least half (low end), Bee could have contributed to a negligible amount (unlikely though) all the way to half (which is also unlikely, but more likely than the former), who knows?

Adressed.

Kurama's Bijuu Dama was coming in Hashirama's direction (where Mokujin was spawned), in this case, it will be thrown nearby SS, which can be beside it, meaning that SS ill have to stretch to grab it, and I think I don't need to tell you that grabbing a ball that's coming towards your direction isn't the same as grabbing a ball that's coming a few meters to your right/left.

Mokujin still needs to be fast enough to intercept it. In fact, it reached it's arm out and caught the Bijuu Dama.

Naturally...but it's fast enough to do so...regardless. The Bijuu Dama is so large, and the distance is going to be so small between Naruto and the statue, that firing it a little bit to the left or right isn't really going to matter in the long run.

The Bijuu Dama's blew up at the same time Chojo Kebutsu hit Iso Susano'o Kyuubi, doesn't mean that Bijuu Dama reached,

Nope. Read.

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Explosion on the left is Chojo Kebutsu. Explosion on the right is Bijuu Dama. They occurred at the same time, meaning they hit their targets and resolved at the same time. If one was faster, it would've exploded first. That simple.

Bijuu Dama flew past most of the arms and cut some before they actually landed on Kurama

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,

Nope. Read. That's a double page, meaning all these events occurred at once.

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-Fists and Bijuu Dama are charging at each other.

-Bijuu Dama are shown hitting SS, and at the same time, the fists have reached PS.

Cutting some of the arms before those specific arms landed is irrelevant when others already hit, thus proving that SS strikes as fast as Kurama's Bijuu Dama moves.

some arms in that scan have already reached Kurama, but you can clearly see that the Bijuu Dama flew past most of them before they actually hit Kurama, to the point of of cutting some that wwere coming before they reached it.

Read above.

Which they did, but the PS blades were clearly not enough to take out all arms.

Not relevant. If they had hit first, they would've blown up first, not at the same time.

Not a chance.

If you read that part correctly, you'd be saying the opposite.

Ok, let's assume Shinsuusenju will intercept it (not saying it will), and that it will be strong enough to catch it. If Naruto fires a Bijuu Dama that big, and Shinsuusenju catches it, I'm pretty sure Shinsuusenju will just slap it away, it will need most, if not all of its hands to grab it, and once it does, it will have to throw it back at Naruto, and once it grabs the Bijuu Dama, what stops Naruto from firing a smaller one (considering he can form them nearly instantly) against the previously thrown Bijuu Dama and blowing it up on Shinsuusenju's face? Or firing it just right after firing the huge one? Either way, both Bijuu Dama would blow up on contact, and would obliterate Shinsuusenju along with Hashirama.

Lol. Weaker attacks don't cause stronger ones to blow. Replace B w/ Naruto's small Bijuu Dama. [

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] Naruto's smaller one literally does nothing, and then SS catches it and slaps it away, or it shoves it back, causing Naruto to be pushed back like the Mazo was

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, and it blows and he dies, or takes heavy damage.

I wonder where you took the bold from, last I checked, the only thing Mokujin did against PS was block its sword, which doesn't prove anything at all, as V4 Susano'o canonically blocked Mokujin's strike.

Um....Mokujin isn't going to catch or intercept any of PS's blades unless it moves that fast. The fact it trades blows with PS, and that they were restraining each other, and that he was fast enough to catch said blade, means that it moves (arms) as fast as Madara's PS.

V4 Susanoo was spawned right in front of Mokujin, and blocking it means nothing, not when we're talking about Mokujin being fast enough to intercept PS, and that was Base Hashirama. Not Sage Mode Hashirama.

And Sasuke's PS has never swung its blade. Ever. The only time it hit Juubito, Juubito was stationary and didn't try to evade. PS never tagged Juubito, an enhanced V3 did,

KCC Senjutsu Susanoo>Sasuke's PS when it comes to physical attributes such as durability, and speed, and physical strength, so it's a good representation of it's striking speed.

Rikudo BM Avatar=Rikudo PS in above aspects.

-Rikudo

BM Avatar=PS in above aspects.

Sasuke's KCC Senjutsu Susanoo was equal to the BSM Avatar in the above aspects...

-Senjutsu

Sasuke's KCC Susanoo=BM Avatar in the above aspects.

it's only logical that a construct as big as a mountain is slower than one as big as a Bijuu with a Senjutsu boost

Lol, there's a lot of words for it...but logical is definitely not one of them. Naruto's Kurama Avatar and Sasuke's PS are Mountain sized after the Rikudo boost, yet their striking speed>>>>their smaller Avatars. Size, at best, will let you make a case for it's movement speed, not it's striking speed.

- Not to mention that Sasuke predicted Juubito's movement with Sharingan's precog, that's why Susano'o was able to hit him.

Your point? Still have to be fast enough to do so, and Hashirama has SM sensing, which is shown to be just like Sharingan precog. So there isn't even any issue here either.

And I see nothing that proves that Shinsuusenju's striking speed is superior to everyone else's here, the only thing it has is a shit load of arms, while they aren't slow at all, there's no proof that it's faster than the other ones.

Read above. Though I imagine it should be common sense that the physically superior construct has better striking speed. (SS>Mokujin) Susanoo gets stronger, and it strikes faster with every upgrade.

There's also the fact that Juubito was pretty much flying around them, the Avatar will be literally trying to run away here

Is that supposed to matter? Juubito wasn't fast enough to dodge the incoming strike. If moving away from them would've let him dodge it, he wouldn't have been forced to block. If the Avatar tries to run, it gets a fist in it's face.

, and considering that Shinsuusenju lacks movement speed feats (something even you admitted earlier in this post), it isn't catching up to the Avatar any time soon.

It doesn't need to move. It's arms are long and wide enough to take out the Avatar before it gets away.

But then again, there's the AoE of the arms, but I doubt they're obliterating the avatar before it can get a considerable distance from the statue, and there's also the fact that they're not gonna be summoned right in front of each other.

Um...I don't know why you think it's going to be moving when it has fists 2x it's size pounding it into the ground, but that doesn't make sense and it's physically impossible.

Point taken.

I apologize for any typos, my current keyboard is complete shit.

Lol, I know that feel, or at least I knew that feel.

 

[RustledJimmies]

Meh, too tired for this, so I'll just concede for now.

 

[KidGamer65]

Alright bro.