[Game] SK-Tower Of God! The Great War!!! #28

[Ansatsuken]

I expect an answer to this btw.

Please show me that post or write it again.

 

[Toujo]

Please show me that post or write it again.

See:

-Toujo(I put him here because he's still refraining from scum hunting

Have you read my posts where I define how I scum hunt? Because, er, I've very clearly been doing that lol. Like I could not be doing it more if I tried.

 

[Ansatsuken]

See:

I mean your post that describes how you performing scum hunting.

 

[Ansatsuken]

If you really a town please be helpful and help me to understand.

Or else I'm stay with my read.

 

[Toujo]

I mean your post that describes how you performing scum hunting.

Urgh, I'll just rewrite it

So my scum hunting philosophy is to identify fallacies within the arguments people put forward. I first point out these fallacies, and explain why it is a fallacy. This is to show the player that they are using that fallacy, as it's not impossible for a player to employ a fallacy without knowing that they are using a fallacy. The reason I'm focusing on fallacies is because scum are, at some point or other, forced to use them, to make arguments that look like they're logically sound but actually or not. If they didn't, they either wouldn't be scumhunting, or their scumhunting would eventually lead the town to them or their partners.

The scum finding part of this comes next. If I see a player using the same fallacies later on, after being told about them, or refuse to concede that their point is not supported with what they currently have, then we have scum behaviour. Because they can no longer hide behind ignorance, and scum typically don't want to concede ground lest it reflect poorly on them.

This is not the only way I scumhunt, I use reactions and arguments in response to me to develop a read, but this is the crutch behind my scumhunting, and the form that is most clearly visable within the thread.

^Given the above, I've no idea how you can say I'm not scumhunting. So does this cause you to reconsider your position, or are you going to defend the claim you made?

 

[Toujo]

If you really a town please be helpful and help me to understand.

Or else I'm stay with my read.

Christ, it takes time to write these posts. Give me a chance to do so. See above.

 

[Ansatsuken]

Urgh, I'll just rewrite it

So my scum hunting philosophy is to identify fallacies within the arguments people put forward. I first point out these fallacies, and explain why it is a fallacy. This is to show the player that they are using that fallacy, as it's not impossible for a player to employ a fallacy without knowing that they are using a fallacy. The reason I'm focusing on fallacies is because scum are, at some point or other, forced to use them, to make arguments that look like they're logically sound but actually or not. If they didn't, they either wouldn't be scumhunting, or their scumhunting would eventually lead the town to them or their partners.

The scum finding part of this comes next. If I see a player using the same fallacies later on, after being told about them, or refuse to concede that their point is not supported with what they currently have, then we have scum behaviour. Because they can no longer hide behind ignorance, and scum typically don't want to concede ground lest it reflect poorly on them.

This is not the only way I scumhunt, I use reactions and arguments in response to me to develop a read, but this is the crutch behind my scumhunting, and the form that is most clearly visable within the thread.

^Given the above, I've no idea how you can say I'm not scumhunting. So does this cause you to reconsider your position, or are you going to defend the claim you made?

Ok which player here you found posting many fallacies?

-Glover
-Poison
-Lukundo
-Michelle
-Imperfection

I'm going with your initial read here.

 

[Toujo]

Ok which player here you found posting many fallacies?

-Glover
-Poison
-Lukundo
-Michelle
-Imperfection

I'm going with your initial read here.

Poison, but I haven't explicitly gone into that. Michelle, but I pointed them out and haven't seen much repetition of them since. Glover was a pressure vote, it's still there because er, his performance so far has left a lot to be desired. Imperfection made some poor arguments, but I wouldn't say they had to be fallacious. Luk hasn't really made any as far as I can tell, but he doesn't seem the kind to engage in much logical debate anyway so I'm going to have a tricky time reading him.

You'll also note that I made sizable posts pointing out where Ryu and Kyte made them.

 

[Ansatsuken]

Poison, but I haven't explicitly gone into that. Michelle, but I pointed them out and haven't seen much repetition of them since. Glover was a pressure vote, it's still there because er, his performance so far has left a lot to be desired. Imperfection made some poor arguments, but I wouldn't say they had to be fallacious. Luk hasn't really made any as far as I can tell, but he doesn't seem the kind to engage in much logical debate anyway so I'm going to have a tricky time reading him.

You'll also note that I made sizable posts pointing out where Ryu and Kyte made them.

I have read their post. Both have close to same idea on why you're scum.

But I can't speak if they are partner together(Scum). I think it's not possible.

Give me some time to think.

 

[Toujo]

I have read their post. Both have close to same idea on why you're scum.

But I can't speak if they are partner together(Scum). I think it's not possible.

Give me some time to think.

That is neither here nor there. I'm asking you for your read on me. You claimed I was on your scum list because I wasn't scum hunting. Given how I've established how I scumhunt, I'm asking you if you still feel that way. Because I believe I have absolutely exhibited behaviour that suggests I'm scum hunting, when you factor in how I scumhunt (and people familiar with me can confirm this, plus I can evidence it with past games). You're deflecting from the point at hand here. Stick to the discussion point.

 

[Ansatsuken]

That is neither here nor there. I'm asking you for your read on me. You claimed I was on your scum list because I wasn't scum hunting. Given how I've established how I scumhunt, I'm asking you if you still feel that way. Because I believe I have absolutely exhibited behaviour that suggests I'm scum hunting, when you factor in how I scumhunt (and people familiar with me can confirm this, plus I can evidence it with past games). You're deflecting from the point at hand here. Stick to the discussion point.

That's why I said give me some time to think. Even covid 19 test needs a time to give you result. Think it like that. How you should trying to earn respect so it same in here. And I'm not your close pal like some people here. So don't expect the same thing.

Don't force me ok

 

[Toujo]

That's why I said give me some time to think. Even covid 19 test needs a time to give you result. Think it like that. How you should trying to earn respect so it same in here. And I'm not your close pal like some people here. So don't expect the same thing.

Don't force me ok

I just feel like this i fairly simple. If you've been reading my posts, it should be pretty clear that I'm doing what I laid out when I explained how I scumhunt. If you must take your time then sure, but I'm not seeing why this is neccessary.

 

[Poison]

The following are all the posts made by Ryu, well while reading last night I was getting bad vibes from me. So, I'm Isoing first.

Spoiler: Early Fluffs

Yo

Reading, you?

Scum

When I asked him how he would like to do scum hunting, his answer is really naive here. Was Ryu always this naive? No. Was he always somewhat a low poster? Yes, but he is mostly having a serious take on the game.

How you do me like that Al?

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Hopefully they expose themselves.

What I found weird is this. He chose Aether first, called him scum. Which apparently doesn't really look serious at all.

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Anway I'm not liking @Aether9 you seem scum to me.

After casting his shades on him, he goes voting him. With weak reads, I will say this looks wayy weak.

I feel like you going through the motions and can't come up with fake reads.

Ya I'm pretty sure you scum.

Vote Lynch: Aether9

Press the quote button under posts on all the posts you want to quote. Then when typing your posts click insert quotes.

Dam you read me so well.

That was rej

After making a vote he makes the little case against him? It looks mostly forced and seems like "I took this person and he will be my scum read and I'm making a case against him.

What is this commentary? This highly unnecessary and why I like to call contributing without contributing.


Accusing your accusers classic scum go-to. What people like to call OMGUS.

I did give you reason but you just didn't want to accept it. I said you going through the motions, which means you are only doing and saying something because you think it's expected of you.

Omg an ansa iso!

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Pretty much all your early posts.

Again, here, he goes putting a possible tag on the particular players first then dig into their cases, as if to do a little fake justification as to why they could be the alignment. He reads and reasoning are weak to actually give out tags. It's rather like an act, than something natural.

I will put toujo as possible wolf.
Michelle I'm read as town.
Ansa I'm read as town.
Imp null
Oreki Im read as null.
Tiger null
Aether scum lean.

@Ansatsuken iso Aether.

Why not? !ol and why you scared? I only put you as null because I haven't invested much in reading you.

I'm consintrating on Aether at the moment I can't manage that many scums, anyway if you want a reason I can only say your posts are to long winded, which is unnecessary. It's saying a whole lot of nothing, or you could just be long winded.

Oh Al I forgot about you, I will put you as null as well, because I haven't invested much in your posts.

Ansa is town because I can read him as such. When he is scum he is not so engaging as he is now.

Michelle is town because I feel like she really is trying to problem solve.

And who ever is null is people I haven't invested much in reading.

He starts tunneling Toujo here, which is actually better in comparison to his early vote, but it was only a meta read if we look at it. Although I do agree that Toujo's long posts are a little exaggerated, but your reads in the end are nothing but only meta, he did say that he posts more or less the same lengths but you pushed and said, in all the games he was mafia. Which I find a little bit artificial of a read.

I played as Mafia with you and I know how long winded you are,it is your ploy to fool town with a wall of words in order to conceal deciet

My problem with it is that it was unnecessary, you wanted to look you were contributing or invested in the game which is very scummy to me.

No, he was always mafia when I played with him.

I'm not concerned about your play style, all I know is that it's is your ploy to confuse town with a wall of words which is a fact. And from reading your posts I find that they go into unnecessary details, You are over explaining things, which is why I believe you are scum.

voteLynch toujo

Yes I'm not denying that you make long posts regardless of your alignment, but there are necessary ones and there are unnecessary one's, and from what I read most of your posts are unnecessary.

This is a good thing and a good point against Toujo, and I do agree with it.

All your unnecessary posts are meant to decieve, you are deliberately misleading town. Town would look at your posts and believe you are seriously invested in scum hunting because of your lengthy explanation, and most people are put of by such lengthy explanation and don't really read them which is something I believe you want, why? Because if you do read them you will notice a lot of over explanation of useless information.

Lol you got a lot of catching up to do my friend.

I find Ryu really suspicious to be honest due to the following reasons.
-He is way more fluffy than usual. He has always been a low poster as far as I know but he is never this fluffy.
-his reasoning behind the votes are a little flat and artifical.
-he is here but he is barely here. He is just blending in the picture.

I don't see the least bit of interest in him for a scum hunt. He seems really off to me.

 

[Ansatsuken]

The following are all the posts made by Ryu, well while reading last night I was getting bad vibes from me. So, I'm Isoing first.
When I asked him how he would like to do scum hunting, his answer is really naive here. Was Ryu always this naive? No. Was he always somewhat a low poster? Yes, but he is mostly having a serious take on the game.

What I found weird is this. He chose Aether first, called him scum. Which apparently doesn't really look serious at all.

After casting his shades on him, he goes voting him. With weak reads, I will say this looks wayy weak.




After making a vote he makes the little case against him? It looks mostly forced and seems like "I took this person and he will be my scum read and I'm making a case against him.



Again, here, he goes putting a possible tag on the particular players first then dig into their cases, as if to do a little fake justification as to why they could be the alignment. He reads and reasoning are weak to actually give out tags. It's rather like an act, than something natural.




He starts tunneling Toujo here, which is actually better in comparison to his early vote, but it was only a meta read if we look at it. Although I do agree that Toujo's long posts are a little exaggerated, but your reads in the end are nothing but only meta, he did say that he posts more or less the same lengths but you pushed and said, in all the games he was mafia. Which I find a little bit artificial of a read.





This is a good thing and a good point against Toujo, and I do agree with it.


I find Ryu really suspicious to be honest due to the following reasons.
-He is way more fluffy than usual. He has always been a low poster as far as I know but he is never this fluffy.
-his reasoning behind the votes are a little flat and artifical.
-he is here but he is barely here. He is just blending in the picture.

I don't see the least bit of interest in him for a scum hunt. He seems really off to me.

So what's the difference between Ryu from previous game and inside this game? Did Ryu from previous game scum hunting more?

 

[Poison]

Okay first, @XTMF hey, post game we are gonna be best buddies. Now to reply to your detailed analysis on me.

Just because I fluff doesn't mean I don't want town to win, or that I don't want to help town to get scums. I fluff everygame, cause that's fun and I play games to have fun. You play your way I play mine, it is NAI for everyone but surely some entrances are off and scummy while some are not, but I don't understand why you would take my fluffiness as AI and as something that I want to hinder the game. Just choose any game on this forum and scroll through the first few pages, you'll know what I'm talking about.

About me subbing out, yes, that's what it's always been but I have played a game where I was scum with Ansa without subbing out, while subbing out is not NAI for everyone I think it is kinda AI for my part. But even If throw away that, you can still differentiate my play. I'm as inexperienced as mafia as I am with uh idk, I'm just way too inexperienced. Nvm.

For you saying that if I am playing on another site that means I'm experienced? Lmao. No. I'm playing there because I made a joke and it backfired and I'm playing there. Let's not talk about that.

So, these are Poison's first few posts in the game, something I called a bit of a rough entrance into the game earlier in the thread. If it's true that whenever she's randed wolf she's subbed out, if she's scum, fooling around might be her idea of a softer landing into this game. I just don't really get why, if you're town, you just want to waste time and fool around doing nothing. But on the other hand, I like to play more seriously than not while still having fun, not the other way around. She also manages to call someone scum right off the bat and then also vote for someone who isn't playing. I also have to add a bit of bias into this next point when I say that if she is playing off-site in another game she's a) somewhat experienced and decent* b) should know how valuable her limited posts are in this game c) know better than to come in, fluff, and distract if she really is town.

So here's a post that really irked me. This is Poison reacting to me voting her. First of all, I'd like to take credit that I can amuse and excite Poison; my top tier charm works even over the Internet, I see. The real first thing I noticed from this post is that she references back to a game (who knows when?) where Soul voted Poison as scum and then Poison went after him, which resulted in what I assume was Soul's lynch (who really cares though). The point is, it feels like she gently tried to push the idea that my vote against her is the result of scum placing a vote. Otherwise, why reference that the only other time you've received a D1 vote is when a scum voted for you? But the real problem in this post is that she tries to dismiss my vote against her by claiming that she isn't playing by her scum meta and that since I don't know her meta, how could my vote even be real? I don't understand why you would try to dismiss my vote as bogus simply off the fact that I don't known what you're meta is. The big reveal that your scum meta is actually just you subbing out is shocking as well because I'm supposed to believe that if you ever rand wolf you'll simply just sub out? That's crazy. Yeah, I don't like your reason of trying to shake my vote off.

Not really I had no intentions to make your read on me seem like bogus. Not at all, you are just jumping into conclusions on your own.

This is Poison saying that she liked my post about something I said about Imp giving an early reads list. It felt weird that she completely dismissed my vote and then all of a sudden is agreeing with me next interaction that we have. I actually called her out on it and then she just said that she was the first one to point out Imp's reads list (not sure why that matters).

I'm a really accepting person. It doesn't matter whether I lock scum read you or lock town read you if I agree with something I say it, if I disagree with something I say that. And idk why by saying that I agree with you is dismissing your vote?

Of course there's these two posts that set off the back and forth between us. I won't go into much more because I've posted my thoughts on this, but why call my posts forced in two of your posts? I've had this creeping feeling that Poison has been trying to find and build a case against me because there are all these little soft pushes that she does. Also, not to mention she seemed to be trying to use my mention of a religious analogy to discredit my thoughts. Why? To be honest, I just didn't love the way she handled that conversation.

No, I don't soft push. I push hard and with evidences. Sorry, but you are jumping to conclusions on your own.

Another insider reference (-_-). I don't get why she said instead of taking a 'second to try and understanding her POV'. That wasn't really what my issue was about and it feels off that she'd claim that this was what was at fault.

Sorry, yes it was insider ref to make others understand what's its like and for you I stated the line. Quite handy for both of you so why are you having a problem with it.?

Here's Poison's re-entry and subsequent exit post. By her entrance, it felt like she was ready to drop bombs. But those bombs were only posts 810 and 812, which I would hardly call 'addressing everything'.

Poison's play today has also felt optimal and a bit like she's cherry picking. Post 1233 is a fun one where she once again quietly accuses me of doing something scummy (soft-shading), while making one fluff post and asking one question. She also hovered around the Ratchet-Michelle back and forth, which I feel like is an easy-picking.

I'm sorry I can't help it that I am inactive. All the games I play I'm always caught up and among the top posters so I can make up my mind and drop bombs easily but the fact that I'm catching upto 60 pages, it seems more like spectatkng than actual playing and hence why I could drop bombs.

Here Poison wants to talk about The Supreme Alliance (she seems to be hovering around me a lot). The second bit of her post is interesting, though, because she claims that D1 doesn't have much to give and that we should just wait until the NP write-up. Not only does she endorse this terrible idea, but she doubles down by giving an example of how it worked in a previous game. That to me seems like not only is she content not to participate that deeply at the moment because there's no information which is a complete 180 since she's been saying she's going to catch up the whole game. Finally, she ends with another just bizarre thing to put out into the open by saying that my move COULD by open wolfing, but it can't because because wolves wouldn't do that and I'm familiar with Aether and Ratchet, right?

So are you saying I should not talk about what I see before me?

Here's a bad point. Poison calls out Ansa about how he's been talking about players who are not in this game when she's already done that herself in this game as well as referenced previous games inside of this one. Hypocritical, no?

Are you calling me Hypocrit? OwO well, it's because the ones I mentioned was rather known by many the ones he mentioned was not.

 

[Poison]

So what's the difference between Ryu from previous game and inside this game? Did Ryu from previous game scum hunting more?

He was way more serious and inclined to scum hunt than fluffing.

 

[Ansatsuken]

He was way more serious and inclined to scum hunt than fluffing.

If you fluffing its ok but if Ryu fluffing that means he's scum?

 

[Ryu Kishi]

For such a low poster @Alice in Noodleland received no heat in this game. Maybe she went under the radar for townies but if she would be villager scum would push there.
For me the possibility of her being scum is high because of this. Scum would not miss the chance to go after an inactive like Alice.

Oppinions?

Is this not Alice normal behaviour.

When I asked him how he would like to do scum hunting, his answer is really naive here. Was Ryu always this naive? No. Was he always somewhat a low poster? Yes, but he is mostly having a serious take on the game.

Lol you didn't know it was a joke poison?

What I found weird is this. He chose Aether first, called him scum. Which apparently doesn't really look serious at all.

I said he seemed scum not is scum, which have different meanings. And was not supposed to be serious because there was nothing much to go on at that time.

He starts tunneling Toujo here, which is actually better in comparison to his early vote, but it was only a meta read if we look at it. Although I do agree that Toujo's long posts are a little exaggerated, but your reads in the end are nothing but only meta, he did say that he posts more or less the same lengths but you pushed and said, in all the games he was mafia. Which I find a little bit artificial of a read.

Lol I didn't say "all games he was Mafia" i said in all game's I played with him he was Mafia. Which was like two games.

I find Ryu really suspicious to be honest due to the following reasons.
-He is way more fluffy than usual. He has always been a low poster as far as I know but he is never this fluffy.
-his reasoning behind the votes are a little flat and artifical.
-he is here but he is barely here. He is just blending in the picture.

I don't see the least bit of interest in him for a scum hunt. He seems really off to me.

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[Ryu Kishi]

Poison - leaning sum inactive and here strawman fallacies on me. Shout out @Toujo

Toujo- thanks to him now know every fallacy that exists, unless you got more @Toujo ? It's really an eye closure thanks for that. At this point I would Lynch him just to stop reading about fallacies.

Rej- I'm going to put him in red, absolutely scummy this game, I'm not going to point specific posts because there is hardly much which is not normal for him.

Michelle- I'm going to say town leaning but I'm not 100%.

I won't comment on anyone else right now because I'm tired of typing.

 

[Poison]

If you fluffing its ok but if Ryu fluffing that means he's scum?

Ofc not. There's a difference between a person who always fluffs and those who usually does not fluff but is fluffing.