[VS] Simple BASE Sasuke versus BASE Naruto
- Thread starter Dannie
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Naruto wins. Without the Sharingan Sasuke loses. His entire fighting style revolves around the sharingan.
This in not early part 2 Naruto, but current Naruto who has improved a lot. Base Naruto was able to easily deal with Pain's speed who was faster than Kakashi and performed better against Pain than Kakashi did in taijutsu. Base Naruto was able to reach and save Sakura before Kakashi could. Base Naruto's clones forced Madara to use susanoo. That alone says a lot about Naruto's strength.
Sasuke blitzing that unknown no named CS users is not very impressive. Part 1 Choji was able to defeat a CS level 2 user.
This in not early part 2 Naruto, but current Naruto who has improved a lot. Base Naruto was able to easily deal with Pain's speed who was faster than Kakashi and performed better against Pain than Kakashi did in taijutsu. Base Naruto was able to reach and save Sakura before Kakashi could. Base Naruto's clones forced Madara to use susanoo. That alone says a lot about Naruto's strength.
Sasuke blitzing that unknown no named CS users is not very impressive. Part 1 Choji was able to defeat a CS level 2 user.
Look at those Four Slashes Sasuke delivered on that man during his speed blitz. And people say his Strike Rate is not fast. Naruto at Base Level is stream-rolled.
Meh, you might be right that he cannot summon them. However, I never insisted Naruto is the only one who can reverse summon them. Gamakichi has the ability to use reverse summoning as well, or are you going to claim a toad cannot reverse summon his own species? Scan or not, had I not posted you would've kept going with your circular argument.
Howling Fox
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makosheva7
Active member
Your points are almost entirely correct. If two people are fighting, and one of them decides to do a summoning, he/she therefore is summoning first in response to neither of your points. The second person might respond with a summoning, but that doesn't change the fact that the first person summoned to neither falling, in response to something big, or in response to the person being big (unless they are).
One example is Tsunade summoning Katsuyu not in response to something big, but to heal the people of Konoha. And Pain summoned a Gecko before Jiraiya summoned his toad (although that path could only summon)
makosheva7
Active member
While Sasuke did have previous experience fighting against Naruto's clones, that was only when he had a form of the Sharingan activated. In that state Sasuke could predict Naruto's movements, but without any form of Sharingan there is no way Sasuke can counter the number of shadow clones base Naruto can produce now. While Sasuke has some nice taijutsu prowess, Naruto at this point is no amateur at taijutsu. So that with the immense number of shadow clones will overwhelm Sasuke eventually. Plus at this point each shadow clone of Naruto's can attack with a Rasengan, and if even one of those connects at a vital point, Sasuke is done for.
An argument could be made that Sasuke could just Chidori Spear through all of the clones, but again the sheer number of shadow clones makes it so they'd definitely eventually get close to Sasuke.
As for the summonings, Manda + Aoba <= All toads from Mount Myobouku, as other people have also stated. If Gamabunta alone gave Manda some trouble, then let's say 3-4 more toads should down him with Aoba.
(theoretically Naruto should be able to summon Fukusaku and Shima to use their sound genjutsu, but then again he could have just done that to everyone ever, plus it would take to prepare their throats for chanting, so let's just leave that)
In terms of Ninjutsu techniques, without the Sharingan as some Sasuke fans have told me, Sasuke cannot even use Chidori effectively (hey you guys said it not me). So in this case there is no doubt that the Rasengan > Chidori if that wasn't already apparent without these conditions.
In terms of Ninjutsu, Sasuke at this point has Kirin, a few Katon techniques, and Chidori Spear.
Kirin clearly is Naruto's biggest threat, and is the point of largest conflict for me in determining the outcome of this match. On one hand Naruto seems to not have any defense against Kirin (if he does, I'd like to know). On the other hand Kirin takes some preparation, with the shadow clones occupying Sasuke constantly this kind of preparation will be quite difficult. I'd say Sasuke would try to resort to Kirin at some point in the battle. If he is able to prepare Kirin, it's not like he can tell the difference from a shadow clone and the real Naruto without his Sharingan, so he would just be firing at clones while the real Naruto hits him with a Rasengan from behind.
I don't see any of Sasuke's katon techniques troubling as Naruto can dodge plus use the Rasengan to disperse the flames away from him (many Rasengans = even more dispersal)
I've already touched on Chidori spear so ya.
All in all base Naruto should take this mid-high diff. Even Sasuke had his Sharingan but MS was restricted then this would be, IMO, a VERY hard one to call (either one extreme diff).
An argument could be made that Sasuke could just Chidori Spear through all of the clones, but again the sheer number of shadow clones makes it so they'd definitely eventually get close to Sasuke.
As for the summonings, Manda + Aoba <= All toads from Mount Myobouku, as other people have also stated. If Gamabunta alone gave Manda some trouble, then let's say 3-4 more toads should down him with Aoba.
(theoretically Naruto should be able to summon Fukusaku and Shima to use their sound genjutsu, but then again he could have just done that to everyone ever, plus it would take to prepare their throats for chanting, so let's just leave that)
In terms of Ninjutsu techniques, without the Sharingan as some Sasuke fans have told me, Sasuke cannot even use Chidori effectively (hey you guys said it not me). So in this case there is no doubt that the Rasengan > Chidori if that wasn't already apparent without these conditions.
In terms of Ninjutsu, Sasuke at this point has Kirin, a few Katon techniques, and Chidori Spear.
Kirin clearly is Naruto's biggest threat, and is the point of largest conflict for me in determining the outcome of this match. On one hand Naruto seems to not have any defense against Kirin (if he does, I'd like to know). On the other hand Kirin takes some preparation, with the shadow clones occupying Sasuke constantly this kind of preparation will be quite difficult. I'd say Sasuke would try to resort to Kirin at some point in the battle. If he is able to prepare Kirin, it's not like he can tell the difference from a shadow clone and the real Naruto without his Sharingan, so he would just be firing at clones while the real Naruto hits him with a Rasengan from behind.
I don't see any of Sasuke's katon techniques troubling as Naruto can dodge plus use the Rasengan to disperse the flames away from him (many Rasengans = even more dispersal)
I've already touched on Chidori spear so ya.
All in all base Naruto should take this mid-high diff. Even Sasuke had his Sharingan but MS was restricted then this would be, IMO, a VERY hard one to call (either one extreme diff).
slimreaper
Active member
lmao. Shits turning in to turf war. Myoboku vs Ryuchidou.
I think Naruto wins too. Sasuke cant fight well without sharingan. He's entire style is based on sharingan. Naruto has more raw power and people keep saying Snake > Toad just because Manda outlasted Bunta once. Get real guys.
Naruto takes this
Naruto in base can summon 1000 clones. That is way to much for a base sasuke to handle. 500 of them lauching a kamikaze rasengan barrage at sasuke from all directions is unavoidable without his sharingan. Plau the fact that naruto can summon gamabunta or gamaiken who could summon ma and pa, or naruto could summon ma and pa who couls summon the other toads.
Either way naruto wins this in base.
Naruto in base can summon 1000 clones. That is way to much for a base sasuke to handle. 500 of them lauching a kamikaze rasengan barrage at sasuke from all directions is unavoidable without his sharingan. Plau the fact that naruto can summon gamabunta or gamaiken who could summon ma and pa, or naruto could summon ma and pa who couls summon the other toads.
Either way naruto wins this in base.
That's laughable. 1000 shadow clones that are much weaker than the caster itself not to mention the amount of chakra drained after summoning countless clones in a reckless manner. Long distance fire jutsu can handle that, not to mention that Sasuke has already beaten many enemies easily, so Naruto's shadow clones mean nothing to Sasuke.
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500 of them launching Rasengans at Sasuke? This is not SM Naruto. When has Naruto displayed summoning 1000 shadow clones while using Rasengans in just base? Without SM or Kyubi chakra, he will be drained from summoning too many clones, if that's the route you are trying to take. Saasuke is better at using his jutsu more wisely and with better chakra taxing as compared to Naruto who goes in one all out assault just to get fodderized by someone with better taijutsu and kenjutsu skills.
If Naruto decided to get close then Chidori Nagashi will take care of him and he will end up just like this.
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Optimistic
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Never understood the /thread posts. It doesn't prove anything it just shows that in that users opinion that post conquered the thread key word is opinion. Also it looks like a bad case of rim licking.
Sasuke wins if the mindset is oc if ic it can go either way.
Sasuke wins if the mindset is oc if ic it can go either way.
You seem to not understand how the concepts of shadow clones work. When a shadow clone is produced the users chakra RESERVES are the only thing that is halfed or divided. But the chakra STRENGTH is not effected at all, which means even if naruto does create 1000 clones each clone will have a rasengan just as powerful as the original naruto.
You seem to also forget that chakra resevres are one of the last things naruto will ever have to worry about in battle as he has the 3 largest reserves in the manga.It has already been shown that naruto's reserves were far larger than kakashi's and multiple members of the shinobi alliance. There was even a diagram showing it. And from all the multiple times naruto has used over 500 clones and shown no signs of fatigue, it safe to say that he is very capable of handling that many.
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One long distance fire technique is not destroying 500 clones. I don't know how strong you think sasuke is but a basic dragon flame bomb is not taking down 500 clones and its also not Omni-directional so theres a strong possiblilty that sasuke could still get rushed from behind.
Naruto in his training with kakashi displayed the ability to clone thousands (plural) of clones that all had to mold and use chakra to cut leave. This clearly proves that naruto is capable of molding chakra without the number of clones actually being a problem.
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It seems you stopped reading the manga after the rescue gaara arc. Had you continued you would have seen in his fight with kakazu that naruto begin using strategy in battle. Throughtout this entire War Arc he has been using strategies and tatics instead of just going in recklessly like usual. He uses his clones to see how the enemy fights and then he creates a strategy after that.
Chidori Nagashi is nothing if naruto is launching toward sasuke with a wind release rasengan. Sasuke would get nullified and reduced.
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And you still have provided no counter as to how sasuke will escape ma and pa's sound genjutsu without his sharingan. This match goes to naruto.
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I know full well how they work. The chakra is evenly distributed among each clone, giving each clone an equal part of the users overall power, but they easily get destroyed by a more powerful force as opposed to the original (i.e fire justu, shuriken jutsu, Kusanagi, etc). The fact is, is that Naruto's shadow clones will not connect, as Sasuke has superior speed / reflexes than Naruto. He doesn't need to predict his movements when his base skills that are already in tip top shape. Sasuke in base has shown better feats when it comes to speed, so a simple slow assault would mean nothing.
Naruto may have large chakra reserves, but that still doesn't take away from the fact that he is slower.
Naruto would lose out in terms of speed. Naruto's Kyubi mode grants him major speed increments. Base form is much slower thus he would be having trouble with Sasuke's speed and by the time he knows it, he would have a Chidori pierced through his head.
Yes, because his shadow clones will be tanking Sasuke's fire attacks..
Sasuke intelligence with what is shown in the manga seems to be much more clever than Naruto's. I don't think the trick of rushing from behind will work on Sasuke. Furthermore, he needs to reach Sasuke at a very close distance at which point Sasuke can keep the distance using Chidori Spear and Chidori Nagashi, which he used against Naruto and Sai to protect himself meaning any clones attempt at getting close to him gets destroyed.
Plus, if Sasuke wants to he could troll Naruto using his hawk to get the distance while using his Chidori Spear or Shurikenjutsu as shown with Danzo and naruto would have nothing to get Sasuke since he would be too high to reach.
He also has his Chidori Spear for more distance to keep Naruto away from him, and that doesn't even include Chidori spear or fire techs.
I guess you missed the part where he completely passed out after creating all of those clones.
Naruto has shown to creates hundreds of clones using Rasengans with SM only.
Show me scans or stop spouting bs.
Those strategies will not work on Sasuke.
Wind Released Rasengan? You mean that same attack that he needs to use in SM or otherwise his arms get injured? Good to know. Sasuke also has fire style to counter his wind style and FRS needs to be used upclose in base, so good luck with that.
You mean the same Sasuke that broke free of Itachi's Tsukuyomi? Tsukuyomi being a much stronger and more powerful genjutsu than Ma and Pa's fodder song technique?? Right.
I find Sasuke way to underestimated here. Sasuke has speed advantage and has ninjutsu advantage. Naruto has stamina advantage with numbers.
Saying that Naruto can simply win over Sasuke with clones is rather a overstatement, since Naruto splits his chakra thus clones are inferior by default to Sasuke. Creating too much clones will leave him chakra empty and FRS takes a lot of it, so don't count on 100 clones and FRS spam. Also, Rasengan is close combat only, while Sasuke has many long distance attacks.
Sasuke can counter many clones fairly easy with Shurikenjutsu like when he fought Itachi, at long range as well as with his fire techniques. At mid range Chidori Senbons and Chidori Nagashi will do the job, and at close combat w/e is left finished with taijutsu and Chidori Spear. Meanwhile, Naruto throws a Rasen: Shuriken at him, but a Fireball jutsu is the best counter for that, as the wind element will fuel the fire and make the jutsu at range back fire.
Also, at people saying that Naruto has gotten better at base speed. I didn't know that using KM,BM or frog katas improved base Naruto's taijutsu skills, and its not like Sasuke forgot how to use taijutsu, he just hasn't used it recently. Unless base Naruto did some extra training, or Sasuke has been proved to be weakened in taijutsu, I don't believe a gap with naruto and sasuke's taijutsu is that large.
Also, I don't get how people think the "small" gap with Naruto and Sasuke's taijutsu helps Naruto that much, and the "huge" gap with base Naruto and base Sasuke's speed. Sasuke has shunshin which has shown to be much more advanced than Naruto's speed so don't give me the clone Rasengan spam crap.
Clones are not escaping this.
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Chidori Nagashi has no reason to backfire at Sasuke from Fuuton. FRS is to be thrown anyway and regardless FRS is nicely countered by fireball. And as far as clones go they have never done the job against any decent ninja, the more Naruto makes then the easier it is to cut them up. Furthermore I love how people say that Naruto can simply make waves of clones and all with Rasengans, and then spam some more Fuuton Rasengans. Do you people even understand that Naruto can barely make 2 Fuuton's with his base form? If he makes too many clones then its only 1 Fuuton Shurikn and if the clones make the Rasengans then its no Fuuton Rasengan. FRS is countered by Fire style anyway, so its wise for Naruto to not even use it. Couple handful of clones with Rasengans is the best move for Naruto, and yet it doesn't even guarantee victory. Sasuke has way more chances than Blondie.