Shouldn't Sasuke be able to use Tsukuyomi?

[BLAZE]

Dunno looks like kishi planned it but then dropped the idea of Sasuke having Tsukuyomi becoz after gaining MS he regularly casted Genjutsu with his Kagatsuchi eye Twice ithe color looked exactly like Tsukuyomi

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

 

[Pukkake Pokayo]

<div class="bbWrapper">Didn't Danzo say that Sasukes genjutsu &quot;paled in comparison to Itachis tsukuyomi, where he could freely manipulate time and space.&quot; Or something along those lines. Using this alone tells me Sasuke doesn't have tsukuyomi as he would've liked nothing more than to torture Danzo for what felt like days as Itachi. Maybe I'm missing something, maybe Danzo could escape that if he knew so much about it. Danzo was paranoid about genjutsu and caught Sasukes earlier attempt out if I remember correctly. My point is the optimum tactic Sasuke could muster at the time was a shitty little illusion over an eye in Danzos arm which, don't get me wrong, was key to his success and a nice twist to the battle.</div>

 

[Punk Hazard]

Yeah Itachi's time/space genjutsu is by far the most impressive

Itachi's Tsukiyomi isn't a time/space technique in any sense of the word. He manipulates the opponent's perception of time and space, not time and space it itself.

 

[Vapids Will]

Itachi's Tsukiyomi isn't a time/space technique in any sense of the word. He manipulates the opponent's perception of time and space, not time and space it itself.

Yes I said genjutsu

 

[Punk Hazard]

Yes I said genjutsu

You said time/space Genjutsu, which it isn't. The closest to a time/space Genjutsu is Izanagi.

 

[Zealous Sparks]

He should have the capability of using it.

I've always looked at it as that Itachi had more skill in manipulating the genjutsu to the point it was Tsukuyomi.

Sasuke had more skill in manipulating Amaterasu to the point it was Enton.

Both just use one better than the other.

 

[Magatsu Izanagi]

He used it on Killer Bee and Danzo.

No, no he didn't.

This has been disproven countless times. Especially the argument for him using it on Danzo, which was based solely on taking the phrase "it's a far cry from Itachi's Tsukuyomi" completely out of context.

The techniques are indeed in the eyes. Why else could Itachi's crow use KA? How else could Kakashi use Kamui? How else could Ao have the telescope/X-ray vision? Nagato COULD use Limbo, he just never of its existence and therefore never used it. He simply died before he could discover the technique.

It's not as simple as that.

KA, yes, that's possible to just label it as being in the eye. However, one could argue that the reason why Itachi was able to use/manipulate KA the way he did was due to his proficiency with Genjutsu. Perhaps if Shisui gave his eye to Fugaku, he wouldn't have been able to implant/use it in the same way Itachi did. So right away, that points to some degree of mastert/control/proficiency needed to use the said MS technique, otherwise an Uchiha could just plop an eye in themselves and instantly use the ability to its fullest.

Kakashi is a bit of a different story. See, he actually had a 3T implanted in him, and only later was the MS awakened. That simulates the exact same conditions as an Uchiha awakening the MS, so it can't really be used as a basis to discern whether the technique itself is completely and fully stored/usuable in the eye.

Byakugan is completely different. The telescope/X-ray vision aren't actual jutsu (if I recall correctly), and are rather the mechanics of the eye itself, just like how Sharingan has precog, etc.

So, going off that, there really is great uncertainty on doujutsu being completely within the eye. Yes, they make use of the eye and are cast through it, but it's likely they aren't "completely" there. After all, how could Madara use dojutsu while he didn't have eyes at all?

 

[Punk Hazard]

No, no he didn't.

This has been disproven countless times. Especially the argument for him using it on Danzo, which was based solely on taking the phrase "it's a far cry from Itachi's Tsukuyomi" completely out of context.



It's not as simple as that.

KA, yes, that's possible to just label it as being in the eye. However, one could argue that the reason why Itachi was able to use/manipulate KA the way he did was due to his proficiency with Genjutsu. Perhaps if Shisui gave his eye to Fugaku, he wouldn't have been able to implant/use it in the same way Itachi did. So right away, that points to some degree of mastert/control/proficiency needed to use the said MS technique, otherwise an Uchiha could just plop an eye in themselves and instantly use the ability to its fullest.

Kakashi is a bit of a different story. See, he actually had a 3T implanted in him, and only later was the MS awakened. That simulates the exact same conditions as an Uchiha awakening the MS, so it can't really be used as a basis to discern whether the technique itself is completely and fully stored/usuable in the eye.

Byakugan is completely different. The telescope/X-ray vision aren't actual jutsu (if I recall correctly), and are rather the mechanics of the eye itself, just like how Sharingan has precog, etc.

So, going off that, there really is great uncertainty on doujutsu being completely within the eye. Yes, they make use of the eye and are cast through it, but it's likely they aren't "completely" there. After all, how could Madara use dojutsu while he didn't have eyes at all?

That's how you choose to interpret it, but I fail to see even a slither of proof as to why it isn't Tsukiyomi, while their evidence towards the side that it is. It was done with the eye opposite to casting Amaterasu and with his Mangekyo active. It inversed the color scale, which Tsukiyomi has only been shown to do. If Itachi is the only person to have had Tsukiyomi(Infinite Tsukiyomi is clearly different), then why did Danzo call it Itachi's Tsukiyomi and not just Tsukiyomi?

If the technique is not stored in the eye, then it has to be stored within the user's body. As seen with Tobirama's explanation of the autopsies performed on Uchihas, they have key biological differences to their anatomies that make the Sharingan possible to naturally occur in them and them only. If the techniques are stored in the body, it would be tied to these biological differences, so even if a non-clanmember upgraded the eye they would not have the anatomical ability to activate these powers. The only viable conclusion is that the power is stored in the eye. If it wasn't, then how did Kakashi and Obito both end up with Kamui? Are we really supposed to believe that the genetic information of a non-Uchiha was so similar to an Uchiha he isn't related to in any way that their bodies housed the same potential for the same technique upon awakening of the eye? Are we really to believe Kakashi had the potential to an Uchiha Dojutsu in his Hatake genes?

 

[Vapids Will]

You said time/space Genjutsu, which it isn't. The closest to a time/space Genjutsu is Izanagi.

Yes it controls space and time within the genjutsu. Yes Izanagi is one as well

 

[Made in Heaven]

He should have it, realistically, but doesn't.

 

[Im Still Robin]

Sasuke genjutsu is superior than any genjutsu Itachi does.

Its basically IT, GG.

He should have the capability of using it.

I've always looked at it as that Itachi had more skill in manipulating the genjutsu to the point it was Tsukuyomi.

Sasuke had more skill in manipulating Amaterasu to the point it was Enton.

Both just use one better than the other.

Eh, it can be broken by a regular 3 tomoe sharingan, if trained good enough, which sasuke was.

Argue that CM helped, but sure, it was still broken none the less.

 

[The Robot With Human Hair]

Yes he should, Kishi retconned the EMS into a mere Mangekyo without the severe impact on the body and eyes though. His battle with Itachi against Kabuto made it obvious that the EMS is exactly what the title suggests and nothing more. Kakashi using the highest EMS tech with just Obito's Mangekyo proved it further.

 

[FemmeFatale]

The jutsu are probably sealed within the eye, he just can't excess them

 

[Omar19992010]

People are forgetting Sasuke never even mastered his EMS. He only had it for like a day or less before he went to the Battlefield. In theory technically he should be able to use Tsukuyomi but he never knew how to or he hasn't mastered his EMS to that point.

Now he's had EMS for over Ten Years so he should be able to.

 

[maniaoqan]

Danzo could use KA which was ability of that eye not Danzo's.
Sasuke got the eye which had the ability to perform Tsukiyomi, in theory he should be able to use it.

 

[Demonic.]

2015 and people still think Sasuke has tsukuyomi. No he can't.

Each Uchiha has two MS techniques. Sasuke has Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi in his eyes.

There's also the fact the manga showed Itachi using Tsukuyomi to break Sasuke out of sound genjutsu here while Sasuke used regular genjutsu

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[BigGuns Reloaded]

2015 and people still think Sasuke has tsukuyomi. No he can't.

Each Uchiha has two MS techniques. Sasuke has Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi in his eyes.

There's also the fact the manga showed Itachi using Tsukuyomi to break Sasuke out of sound genjutsu here while Sasuke used regular genjutsu

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

I wonder if you ever noticed itachi likes to be careful. ...

It clearly wasn't needed for him to use tsukuyomi but it's a trend of the character to use stronger jutsu in order to secure success

That scan proves it was completely unnecessary to use it seeing as sasuke got the job done aswell

 

[Demonic.]

I wonder if you ever noticed itachi likes to be careful. ...

It clearly wasn't needed for him to use tsukuyomi but it's a trend of the character to use stronger jutsu in order to secure success

That scan proves it was completely unnecessary to use it seeing as sasuke got the job done aswell

1.) That's your assertion

2.) Doesn't change the fact that there's no proof Sasuke has Tsukuyomi

 

[BigGuns Reloaded]

Think Kagutsuchi just controls the flames, not puts them out.

Itachi also controlled the flames
Sasuke genjutsu against bee was similar to tsukuyomi

Neither named these jutsu in those instances

Manga evidence shows there is a underlined effect of both brothers right ms which us manipulation/control it appears there real ms power is that control aspect

The difference is how they use it and what the name it but both have show the same abilities just to different extents

1.) That's your assertion

2.) Doesn't change the fact that there's no proof Sasuke has Tsukuyomi

There are more instances of him doing so

You have no proof he doesn't

You assume that because the words don't appear on the panel that he can't access it but him and itachi have shown their ms to be the same

there's panels where black flames appear or genjutsu Is used but no name is shown can you clearly say what jutsu was used? U

 

[Demonic.]

There are more instances of him doing so

You have no proof he doesn't

You assume that because the words don't appear on the panel that he can't access it but him and itachi have shown their ms to be the same

there's panels where black flames appear or genjutsu Is used but no name is shown can you clearly say what jutsu was used? U

No there aren't. Sasuke putting Killer Bee in a Genjutsu does not mean it was Tsukuyomi.

By that logic Madara put Ay in Tsukuyomi here:

You must be registered for see images