Shishui and Itachi

[Chie]

This is not another wank thread but just something off premonition.
So to get back on topic, we all know that Shishui's eyes is said to be the most powerful genjutsu (besides IT) in the whole series with virtually know way to counter it.

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Itachi and Shishui were both very powerful and wise, but does anyone still think that Itachi is still stronger than him if they were at the same age? I know I do.
I don't think they ever compared each other in terms of power in the manga.
Itachi just have this vibe that he's stronger than Shishui but it may not be the case. And if they all went out to show their complete susanoo's it would've been a different level of respect.

If Shisui's eyes are not on cool-down (yes, this limitation applied to him as well- otherwise Itachi would have no way of knowing that his friend's eyes were dormant for exactly a decade between use unless Shisui told him), then he likely would win with KA because that captures anyone in Shisui's line of sight.
^Then again, this might not work as when Itachi was expecting the crow as he met Naruto, he was aware that the jutsu had taken place. Itachi knows of KA and would expect it if Shisui were in the position to use it. We also know this genjutsu is the most potent in terms of controlling someone, but could someone stubborn enough override the request? Itachi is very stubborn when it comes to his goals/intents. Or, can the victim just shallowly follow the request? When Itachi was under "protect Konoha", he didn't go back to the village to protect it directly, he went to go stop Edo Tensei like he wanted which would indirectly benefit all the villages. If they were fighting and Shisui gave the most useful command to win a fight (ie: kill yourself), would Itachi kill himself right away or would he be able to defeat Shisui first and then have to eliminate himself? We don't know enough about KA yet but from what we've seen this is not a deciding factor by feats- only speculation.

If Itachi and Shisui were the same age, I would say Itachi would be stronger simply because he was more skilled (with what he did do at his young age) and progressed quicker.

But Shisui is really strong as well and should be the strongest Uchiha after Sasuke/Obito/Madara/Itachi.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

I really do think that in a Shisui vs Itachi fight everything would come down to speed, genjutsu and intelligence. Whoever lands the hit with Tsukuyomi or Kotoamatsukami respectively basically wins the match. Big techniques are irrelevant here, could be used as finishers, though.

I think Itachi would need amatersu or something because tsukyomi won't work on Shishui.

If Shisui's eyes are not on cool-down (yes, this limitation applied to him as well- otherwise Itachi would have no way of knowing that his friend's eyes were dormant for exactly a decade between use unless Shisui told him), then he likely would win with KA because that captures anyone in Shisui's line of sight.
^Then again, this might not work as when Itachi was expecting the crow as he met Naruto, he was aware that the jutsu had taken place. Itachi knows of KA and would expect it if Shisui were in the position to use it. We also know this genjutsu is the most potent in terms of controlling someone, but could someone stubborn enough override the request? Itachi is very stubborn when it comes to his goals/intents. Or, can the victim just shallowly follow the request? When Itachi was under "protect Konoha", he didn't go back to the village to protect it directly, he went to go stop Edo Tensei like he wanted which would indirectly benefit all the villages. If they were fighting and Shisui gave the most useful command to win a fight (ie: kill yourself), would Itachi kill himself right away or would he be able to defeat Shisui first and then have to eliminate himself? We don't know enough about KA yet but from what we've seen this is not a deciding factor by feats- only speculation.

If Itachi and Shisui were the same age, I would say Itachi would be stronger simply because he was more skilled (with what he did do at his young age) and progressed quicker.

But Shisui is really strong as well and should be the strongest Uchiha after Sasuke/Obito/Madara/Itachi.

I don't think will can overcome Shishiu's genjutsu because MS genjutsus like that is an instant game over deal but I do believe knowledge will help Itachi in some aspects. His knowledge of different ninjutsus does help.

You just reminded me that Itachi also learned a few things from Tobi too, so those uchiha kinjutsus are also within Itachi's arsenal too (by hype).

 

[Oblivionx]

They are about equal with both possessing MS...! itachi seems a lil more wise and intelligent to me or may be am biased but i'd go with him... although two characters seem pretty similar except that itachi was darker and less social compared to shishui...

 

[wanderingcactus]

ok first of all, Shisui is held in the utmost respect by Itachi.
That alone should give you a clue as to why he is such a formidable person. Even hokages are afraid of him.

Any form of detection when someone uses KA is from byakugan users but then again that was a fluke and it wasnt Shisui who was using it so its easy to tell whether someone is using KA.

So at the time before Kishi blew the NV out of proportion, Shisui was the strongest out of everyone in NV. That's why he had to die out of suicide. This man is "featless" which means that even to us viewers, his character is absurd.

Now since Shisui commited suicide, Itachi's feats and powers were still getting asspulled by kishi up to the point where he was the one that was the most powerful to the point there was no way of killing him so kishi killed him off with another suicide = Solo AIDS.

Obviously the story continued and more characters were introduced and more asspulls were given to both MC and villains hence leaving Shisui and Itachi behind on the feats.

Even so, Shisui's "feats" will always be greater than Itachi's because of Itachi's opinion about him. Now if we put his KA and speculate its full potential, we could say that it may as well rival juubi mode villains (madara, obito, and kaguya).

Hell, we dont even know whether rinnegan can block out his KA.

So point in case, Shisui will always be greater than Itachi, he soloed everyone even himself way before Itachi soloed himself with Solo Aids. Lets just say, when he handed out his eye to Itachi, he handed his Solo crown to him as well.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

They are about equal with both possessing MS...! itachi seems a lil more wise and intelligent to me or may be am biased but i'd go with him... although two characters seem pretty similar except that itachi was darker and less social compared to shishui...

Kagmi, Itachi, and Shishui were all praised to be genius' of the Uchiha clan. Itachi definitely had something more to be picked over Shishui but I will admit that Itachi had more potential because of his age. He was younger and still rivaled his friend.

 

[The Great Second Hokage]

Given the fact that shisui had ms I think that it would be an interesting contest but I'd still give it to Itachi

 

[Oblivionx]

If Shisui's eyes are not on cool-down (yes, this limitation applied to him as well- otherwise Itachi would have no way of knowing that his friend's eyes were dormant for exactly a decade between use unless Shisui told him), then he likely would win with KA because that captures anyone in Shisui's line of sight.
^Then again, this might not work as when Itachi was expecting the crow as he met Naruto, he was aware that the jutsu had taken place. Itachi knows of KA and would expect it if Shisui were in the position to use it. We also know this genjutsu is the most potent in terms of controlling someone, but could someone stubborn enough override the request? Itachi is very stubborn when it comes to his goals/intents. Or, can the victim just shallowly follow the request? When Itachi was under "protect Konoha", he didn't go back to the village to protect it directly, he went to go stop Edo Tensei like he wanted which would indirectly benefit all the villages. If they were fighting and Shisui gave the most useful command to win a fight (ie: kill yourself), would Itachi kill himself right away or would he be able to defeat Shisui first and then have to eliminate himself? We don't know enough about KA yet but from what we've seen this is not a deciding factor by feats- only speculation.

If Itachi and Shisui were the same age, I would say Itachi would be stronger simply because he was more skilled (with what he did do at his young age) and progressed quicker.

But Shisui is really strong as well and should be the strongest Uchiha after Sasuke/Obito/Madara/Itachi.

i think you are exactly right... KA can't be used to tell someone to kill themselves so so i believe. It has always been used to change ideals, switch sides... it's more like changing thinking... Danzo casted it to be the supreme leader but once that sumarai realized he was under genjutsu, effect vanished... that says a lot that it's not as formidable as people make it out to be... itachi needed to break kabuto's control so KA aligned with his wishes thus it wasn't that great of a deal either...
not to downplay KA but it's greatness lies only in victim no knowing that they are under genjutsu, once they figure out that they are deviating from their goals, they can get out of it.. and that also explain why shishui never used it against danzo to save himself and his eye...

 

[Oblivionx]

Kagmi, Itachi, and Shishui were all praised to be genius' of the Uchiha clan. Itachi definitely had something more to be picked over Shishui but I will admit that Itachi had more potential because of his age. He was younger and still rivaled his friend.

i agree except itachi was never picked over shishui, he was considered 2nd strongest after shishui, though he probably didn't have MS by then... That's why sasuke's father said, you might be 3rd strongest after shishui and itachi (filler)

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

I don't know if Godtachi could beat Shisui just based off what happen to his edo once he came in contact with Naruto after giving him KA in the crow. Almost immediately he was hit with KA once his MS activated. That to me showed that the hype for Koto amatsukami was the real deal ultimate genjutsu beside the masterful tsukuyomi & IT.

Godtachi is my man but i go off off logical situations not wank him because he's my fav. This bout goes to Shisui.

That's wow, very logical to look at it through that perspective. But one advantage I would give to Itachi is that he knows Shishui's color. I'm not entirely sure how that helps but I know that if he casted KA at someone, Itachi would know just like Ao.
But you don't see MS Itachi beating MS Shishui? I have this gut feeling that he can beat him, I just not entirely sure how.

i agree except itachi was never picked over shishui, he was considered 2nd strongest after shishui, though he probably didn't have MS by then... That's why sasuke's father said, you might be 3rd strongest after shishui and itachi (filler)

By picked over I mean that they choose Itachi of all Uchihas to become a high level anbu. Danzo didn't even give Shishui a chance, he just went straight for his eyes.
Because right now I'm trying to put Shishui in Itachi's position and see how he would handle the war, sasuke, tobi, and akatsuki as a whole. Would he done it better or just the same? Because from what I'm seeing here, people are saying that Shishui is better.

 

[Skull Knight]

That's why sasuke's father said, you might be 3rd strongest after shishui and itachi (filler)

When did he said this?
Did he said this in latest filler ep?

 

[Yatori]

Now i think this is not really fair debate. We only got to see shisui for few panels. Although KA is haxxed but shisui is featless. We dont have much intel on him to be compared with itachin.


We need shisui gaiden for this.

 

[Tyris]

Hypeless = yes

Featless = not really

Susano'o, great shunshin speed, gokakyuu no jutsu, 3T genjutsu and KA is more than enough feats to judge his power. I bet that his Fire, bukijutsu and taijutsu ( the only things we've yet to be shown about him for 100% ) mastery is around/below Itachi's level, because they were stated to be rivals.

No susanoo in canon... Itachi still wins yata, tots' blitz

 

[itachi4real]

i think you are exactly right... KA can't be used to tell someone to kill themselves so so i believe. It has always been used to change ideals, switch sides... it's more like changing thinking... Danzo casted it to be the supreme leader but once that sumarai realized he was under genjutsu, effect vanished... that says a lot that it's not as formidable as people make it out to be... itachi needed to break kabuto's control so KA aligned with his wishes thus it wasn't that great of a deal either...
not to downplay KA but it's greatness lies only in victim no knowing that they are under genjutsu, once they figure out that they are deviating from their goals, they can get out of it.. and that also explain why shishui never used it against danzo to save himself and his eye...

I'm glad u said it before i did. I did not feel like explainin. Ses people forgot about mifune getting out out of KA.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Now i think this is not really fair debate. We only got to see shisui for few panels. Although KA is haxxed but shisui is featless. We dont have much intel on him to be compared with itachin.


We need shisui gaiden for this.

True but all we have are fillers and things that people claimed he had. I'm just going off their ocular abilities mostly.
And we know he was the inventor of shuushin and that as an Uchiha he has high level katon that's virtually it if we don't count his susanoo and ms.

I'm glad u said it before i did. I did not feel like explainin. Ses people forgot about mifune getting out out of KA.

No, people ignored that fanfiction of mifune getting out of KA. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard/read. Once Ao caught Danzo he stopped the genjutsu.

 

[baul 24]

The instance shisui lost his eye to Danzo all the hype is gone and Itachi wouldn't have lost if he was put against danzo instead of Shisui even without MS Itachi would slaughter danzo and all the root guys. Itachi is a savage.

 

[Prince Badman]

It's a healthy Itachi. But yeah, whoever lands first is very crucial.
Like your sig btw lol

thanks.....now lets try to create the scenario of the possible battle.....
COMPARISONS
1. Speed : Shisui> Itachi
2. Ninjutsu : Itachi> Shisui(based on the data we have till now)
3. Genjutsu : Shisui>= Itachi (only because of KA nothing else)
4. Taijutsu : Itachi =Shisui (Shuriken jutsu might give Itachi an edge and Itachi was shown to have great Taijutsu a at his prime. Also since he is not sick his durability is increased )
5. Intelligence : Itachi=Shisui(from what i can actually gather till now)

Well considering both are familiar with each others techniques i think they both will use a clone of some sort to analyze and strategise rather than approaching each other in a frontal assault. From the above comparison we can see they are both almost equal though Shisui's shunshin gives him a huge advantage while facing Itachi or anyone else.... Speed becomes a prime asset. Now lets say they were to strike each other after confrontation of their real selves then Shisui will have an advantage cause he is shown to have casted Genjutsu over a long range....however I am not sure he could do it on Itachi if the latter is using Susano. Amaterasu by Itachi will be dodged so that isn't a prime force to consider until and unless Itachi uses it to corner Shisui.....If both face each other using Susano its a win for Itachi coz shisui has no counter to Totsuka or Yata.....However if Shisui prolongs the battle and forces Itachi to use his MS for longer duration Itachi will get exhausted and will be defeated....We saw how weak he gets after using Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi.......so whoever plays to his strengths will win but I will say its a 55-45 in Shisui's favour solely coz of his speed and KA

 

[Oblivionx]

By picked over I mean that they choose Itachi of all Uchihas to become a high level anbu. Danzo didn't even give Shishui a chance, he just went straight for his eyes.
Because right now I'm trying to put Shishui in Itachi's position and see how he would handle the war, sasuke, tobi, and akatsuki as a whole. Would he done it better or just the same? Because from what I'm seeing here, people are saying that Shishui is better.

well if that's the case then i don't think he could have done any better... in fact itachi seems more wise and tactical thus i believe itachi did better...

When did he said this?
Did he said this in latest filler ep?

yeah i think so though i don't remember correctly but when sasuke returned after training with shisui... His father said something like that to him...

 

[Oblivionx]

No, people ignored that fanfiction of mifune getting out of KA. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard/read. Once Ao caught Danzo he stopped the genjutsu.

But that's not how genjusu works... once casted it should have made mifune a puppet.. otherwise once itachi was free of kabuto's control, he should have gone back in kabuto control when the crow vanished... genjutsu acts in a moment... it's not like danzo needed to keep casting it for 2 hours to get selected as supreme leader... he gives an absolute command, much like geass from code geass... except that user can escape it if they know, they are being influenced...
in fact no jutsu works like this otherwise user may even get killed before they successfully influence their enemy (if it takes like hours to make their enemy change mind) although that can explain why shisui got his eye plucked out by danzo as well but i see it rather far fetched...

 

[Observer]

I'm glad u said it before i did. I did not feel like explainin. Ses people forgot about mifune getting out out of KA.

He got out of KA because Danzo undone it. He got spotted by Ao.

Or Danzo simply didn't give Mifune a complex/lengthed order, such as go there, do this, do that and kill this. Danzo only needed Mifune to talk using former's own thoughts, which he successfully transfered to the latter's mind, for a little while.

You could say that KA effect ends once the order, that was given to the victim, is completely fullfilled.

In case of transfering certain mindset/thoughts.. Not sure about that. Probably will hold for a very long time, if not forever.

 

[true enigma]

Itachi would be stronger.

Shisui was only stronger than Itachi in life because he had MS while Itachi had 3t.

This^^

Also, Sasukes rinnegan can resist KA.