Shinsuusenju/Heretical Demon Statue and Moon's Eye

[Orochimagus]

Okay this is basically two theories that are already noticed but I am making it concise. The jist of all this is that Madara is a huge liar and has tricked Obito, Nagato, and Hashirama. Madara's original plan was to kill Hashirama and attain his body to clone him and use his cells for his benefit (Rinnegan).

To start off, Madara originally tested the Moon's Eye Genjutsu on Hashirama to trick him into thinking he killed him.
From left to right you can see Madara using Mangekyo Sharingan as soon as he lost Kurama since he knew he could not win without the fox. The Genjutsu activates on the second panel with the full moon and you can see the symbols to mark the beginning. On the third panel Madara pretends to be surprised at Hashirama's Wood Clone but we already know Madara could see through those. You also see the Sharingan deactivate the Jutsu with that FWIP noise. By the last panels you see the Genjutsu wear off on Hashirama with the glint next to his face. Notice the same symbol appears as when the Jutsu was activated.

You must be registered for see images

Later on Madara also used the Moon's Eye on Kakashi. That night was also during a full moon and noticed how Kakashi was surprised when he noticed he killed Rin.

You must be registered for see images

Madara has been using Yan Release Rods to keep everyone in check with his will.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

He even used the rods to manipulate Obito and Nagato.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Madara is not telling Obito the full story just like Obito didn't tell Nagato the full story. The Heretical Demon Statue is
NOT the original body of the ten-tails but Madara's attempt at re-creating or mimicking it. If the statue was the summon of the Rinnegan, then why would it need to be bound? That's what a contract is for.

You must be registered for see images

After Madara failed to get Hashirama's body, he settled for the next best thing: Shinsuusenjuu. This creation has Hashirama's vitality within itself and Madara was able to use it as a consolation prize. Since it's not the original the Zetsu that sprout from the Heretical Demon Statue are degraded with but a portion of Hashirama's power. Basically Madara badly damaged Shinsuusenju's body and bound it to his will. Notice the Yan Release is used on the statue to form the rods and the chains that bind it. Notice the statue takes the same pose as Shinsuusenju and wears similar robes along with the same body type.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Madara was able to break the massive block that held the arms on Shinsuusenju's back and this left the wooden structures in its wake.

You must be registered for see images

In short, Madara has been manipulating everyone with his Moon's Eye and Yin Rods and he took Shinsuusenju for his own. The degraded DNA he got from it resulted in White Zetsu and this is why his Rinnegan took so long to activate.​

 

[Narutohokage7]

Thats not a bad theory, well done.

 

[AllomnisymbolsparttwoT]

SO... white zetsu is a retarded shinsuusenju?? WOW

 

[Insidious Smile]

I can I agree with you to a certain extent. It's funny how Madara is considered equal to Hashirama when in reality, Madara needed to use the Kyuubi to match Senju -Hashirama's power .

Dat Hashirama, he's too powerful .

You must be registered for see images

 

[XMrLiNdOrX]

Okay this is basically two theories that are already noticed but I am making it concise. The jist of all this is that Madara is a huge liar and has tricked Obito, Nagato, and Hashirama. Madara's original plan was to kill Hashirama and attain his body to clone him and use his cells for his benefit (Rinnegan).

To start off, Madara originally tested the Moon's Eye Genjutsu on Hashirama to trick him into thinking he killed him.
From left to right you can see Madara using Mangekyo Sharingan as soon as he lost Kurama since he knew he could not win without the fox. The Genjutsu activates on the second panel with the full moon and you can see the symbols to mark the beginning. On the third panel Madara pretends to be surprised at Hashirama's Wood Clone but we already know Madara could see through those. You also see the Sharingan deactivate the Jutsu with that FWIP noise. By the last panels you see the Genjutsu wear off on Hashirama with the glint next to his face. Notice the same symbol appears as when the Jutsu was activated.

You must be registered for see images

Later on Madara also used the Moon's Eye on Kakashi. That night was also during a full moon and noticed how Kakashi was surprised when he noticed he killed Rin.

You must be registered for see images

Madara has been using Yan Release Rods to keep everyone in check with his will.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

He even used the rods to manipulate Obito and Nagato.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Madara is not telling Obito the full story just like Obito didn't tell Nagato the full story. The Heretical Demon Statue is
NOT the original body of the ten-tails but Madara's attempt at re-creating or mimicking it. If the statue was the summon of the Rinnegan, then why would it need to be bound? That's what a contract is for.

You must be registered for see images

After Madara failed to get Hashirama's body, he settled for the next best thing: Shinsuusenjuu. This creation has Hashirama's vitality within itself and Madara was able to use it as a consolation prize. Since it's not the original the Zetsu that sprout from the Heretical Demon Statue are degraded with but a portion of Hashirama's power. Basically Madara badly damaged Shinsuusenju's body and bound it to his will. Notice the Yan Release is used on the statue to form the rods and the chains that bind it. Notice the statue takes the same pose as Shinsuusenju and wears similar robes along with the same body type.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Madara was able to break the massive block that held the arms on Shinsuusenju's back and this left the wooden structures in its wake.

You must be registered for see images

In short, Madara has been manipulating everyone with his Moon's Eye and Yin Rods and he took Shinsuusenju for his own. The degraded DNA he got from it resulted in White Zetsu and this is why his Rinnegan took so long to activate.

idk the gedo doesnt appear to b made of wood. the face is to different. i believe the gedo was around the size of kurama

 

[pandu]

Nice effort
+ Rep

 

[thegame]

One of the better theories around here for quite a while!

However, I'm a bit skeptical about shinsusenju being the gedo mazou, mainly because Kurama knew a lot about the Juubi, and he explained into details its looks and strength. Especially the "gourd" or whatever it is on its back. Nonetheless, it's a nice theory, possible, but unlikely if you ask me.
The best argument is probably the link, that both Obito and Nagato could summon it, even when Obito didn't have any of Madara's DNA, so the only thing they had in common was Hashi's DNA.

 

[Darth Vulcanis]

i like your idea about madara manipulating others with the black rods. very interesting

 

[Orochimagus]

Um...How is the statue not made out of wood when we've seen colored images of it already and when it uses Wood Release to kill Neji?

You must be registered for see images

Anyways, the scaling is a bit weird. Here you can see the statue sucking up the four tails. Regardless, I stated the statue is a degraded form of Shinsuusenju which means it would have lost mass in the fight as well as get a disfigured face. Just look at the crater they created!

You must be registered for see images

 

[thegame]

Then what about the mazou's eyes? They certainly have some connection to the seal, Nagato used, when Akatsuki gathered to perform the long sealing ceremony to extract a biju from its host?

I don't see any connection here with the shinsusenju. Also it has 9 eyes as I recall. Seems fairly strange with all the connections to the tailed beasts, unless Madara remodeled it to become a "possible" vessel for the Juubi.

Well it certainly would seem strange, that the so6p didn't just dispose of its shell, instead of sealing it on the moon.. hmm

 

[Orochimagus]

Or he modified it with the Rinnegan. It just seems even more farfetched that Madara can summon it from the moon and still need to use those Yin chains to keep it enslaved when it's already a summon of the Rinnegan. Maybe the tablet had a recipee to how to become sage and had details on the 9tails for Madara to emulate.

 

[Arugon]

Wow, nice theory, why so little views and posts??

 

[King Envy G]

dam ***** interesting ideas.

 

[Orochimagus]

Cause most people are lazy, Arugon. No one has been able to explain to me why a summon still needs the black material on it and why the summon was always stored in a dormant state in the hideout.

 

[HNIC]

Great theory, this shouldn't be missed!

 

[Whiteknight]

In short, Madara has been manipulating everyone with his Moon's Eye and Yin Rods and he took Shinsuusenju for his own. The degraded DNA he got from it resulted in White Zetsu and this is why his Rinnegan took so long to activate.

That's actually....not a terrible theory. The shinsusenju clearly has some level of power over the tailed beasts (as all wood-release seems to have). It also clearly contains those black chakra rods which Madara uses to control things.

1) Why would the Gedo Mazo need to contain those rods if Madara wasn't controlling it?
2) As the lifeless, empty body of the 10-tails, why would it need to be controlled and why would it need to have chains?
3) Why does Hashirama's clone-lotus flower work so well with the statue? If it was just the 10-tails body, it wouldn't make any sense, but if it's the Shinsusenjuu body it does make sense that the lotus would be able to absorb chakra from it.
4) The statue clearly contains some chakra, even before any of the tailed beasts are stored in it. This could be chakra from hashirama mixed with the chakra absorbed from the fox.

It's definitely a decent theory. I think it's not perfect, but it's definitely very interesting. I have a few questions about it:

1) That statue was BIG. How did Madara sneak it away without anybody noticing?
2) That statue has that soul dragon technique which kills people. Nagato used it against Danzo and Hanzo. Does this technique come from the statue? If the statue, how does that have anything to do with Hashirama's power?
3) Likewise, the statue seemed to play a role in the jutsu to seal tailed beasts. How does that have anything to do with Hashirama's power?
4) How did Nagato have a summoning contract with that statue, if it was created by Hashirama, controlled by Madara, and summoned after Madara died?
5) When Hashirama summoned it, Shinsusenjuu had 2 eyes. Now it has 9. How did that happen?

Besides these few questions, it's a decent theory.

 

[thegame]

The black pole part is possible, however, you kinda ruin it by stating that the gedo mazou is the shinsuusenjuu.

First off, Madara would have no reason to lie about this to Obito, and Kishi would have no reason to hide it, if it was so.

Also the similarities are so poor / none existent.

And if it was the Shinsuusenjuu it has been modified so much, so that it can contain the bijuus, Madara could call it his own creation. So it doesn't make sense to make up some fairy tail about it, when Obito couldn't care less. He was just a kid.

Also, the statue was a summon, used by Hashirama. Why would it have anything to do with his DNA to create the Zetsu's - as you state? It was merely used as a chakra catalyst, so that the DNA Madara stole, could be used for it. It's not like you can gain a persons DNA by stealing some of his jutsu. It's the other way around. You need the DNA to acquire the jutsu. Just taking some elemental creature, would give you nothing.

 

[edo tensai wilmaso]

none of the pics on this thread worked .

 

[NagazuDead]

Very Good Theory

 

[AaaaNinja]

How did I miss the black rods that were stuck in Obito-Zetsu during his rampage there??