Shin logic explains Onoki, Danzo, and Hiruzen

[Mellanoma]

Like my self. I did not understand how hiruzen age could catch up with him and not onoki or danzo. Until finally UChiha shin said this.

You must be registered for see images

In Naruto world as long as you are constantly training, developing, or experimenting to improve yourself. You will maintain strength or SLOWWWLY lose it.

Danzo - Experimented on his body and developed himself through testing to stay strong

Onoki - Tested Jutsu and constantly sought out ways to stay ahead of other nations/kages

Hiruzen - Sat around all day painting, writing, and looking at women. (Perfect Retirement) - Truly Peaceful Life

However Peace in itself is the worse thing a ninja can go through as it prevents you from truly honing your battleskills and abilities outside of science and testing.

It is due to this reasoning that Hiruzen became weak. IT was not cause of his age it was cause he simply stopped developing himself.

Ironically.. Hiruzen learning and developing all his jutsu in his prime was his downfall as he no longer felt the need to develop any longer at old age.

Thoughts?

 

[Angelic.]

may god hiruzen smite you!

 

[UchihasRightfulHeir]

Yet danzo was solod by MS Sasuke. It took Orochimaru + 3 edo kages to kill Hiruzen. Hiruzen would have fared better against madara than onoki.

 

[Urda]

I guess. I mean, they are ninja.

 

[BaseGodNaruto]

No who said Hiruzen sat all day he had no need because he had plenty of Strong Jonins he could rely on.. Don't all Kages sit on there back and let the grunts do the work

 

[startup97]

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

Fourth Databook proof!!!

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Translation: Hiruzen earned the title of professor for being a researcher. He was trained by both Hashirama and Tobirama, as the man that would succeed them. At a young age he showed greater talent than Tobirama in the Nature Elements. All five nature alterations, Hiden (clan techniques), Genjutsu, all Ninjutsu existing in Konoha which explains his reputation as the professor. Hence the essence of Hiruzen is his talent with ninjutsu. Everyone in the village is his family member

5 Elements - Not even his full power???

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Since Hiruzen was revived at old age, his chakra and power should be as low as before but wait... Tobirama states that the Hokage have been revived "close to original power" this means Hiruzen was revived weaker then he was alive at old age yet he was able to produce the 5 Elements at such mastery. Just imagine his Prime.

You must be registered for see images

Hiruzen knows and could perform all Hidden Leaf Jutsu which equals =

Spoiler

Broken Ninjutsu versatility

You must be registered for see images

Hidden Leaf Tech

Neutalizer technique, Bringer of Darkness, Great Clone Explosion and all 8 Gates at will.
Water Clone Technique
Water Release: Water Colliding Wave
Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique
Water Release: Water Encampment Wall
Water Release: Water Trumpet
Demonic Illusion: Hell Viewing Technique
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Earth Release: Hiding Like a Mole Technique
Earth Release: Multiple Earth-Style Wall (Anime only)
Eight Gates
Evil Sealing Method
Eye Mind Reading
Front Lotus
Lion Combo
Multiple Shadow Clone Technique
One Thousand Years of Death
Shadow Clone Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Water Needle
Shadow of the Dancing Leaf
Summoning: Earth Release: Tracking Fang Technique
Wind Release: Great Breakthrough


Hiruzen (Sarutobi Clan)
Fire Release: Ash Pile Burning
Fire Release: Great Flame Technique
Earth Release Shadow Clone
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth Dragon Bullet
Earth Release: Earth Flow River
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Bullet
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Flame Bullet
Roof Tile Shuriken
Shadow Clone Technique
Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique
Summoning Technique (Monkey King: Enma)
Telescope Technique


Izunaka Clan
Beast Human Clone
Dynamic Marking
Fang Passing Fang
Fang Rotating Fang (Manga only) - Capable of crushing stone
Fang Wolf Fang - The power is great enough to dent a Rashōmon gate
Four Legs Technique
Human Beast Combination Transformation: Double-Headed Wolf
Passing Fang

Akimichi clan
Butterfly Bullet Bombing
Calorie Control
Double Human Bullet Tank
Human Bullet Tank
Multi-Size Technique
Partial Multi-Size Technique
Spiked Human Bullet Tank
Super Multi-Size Technique
Super Open Hand Slap

Nara clan
Black Spider Lily
Shadow Gathering Technique
Shadow Imitation Shuriken Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Shadow Sewing Technique
Shadow–Neck Binding Technique

Yamanaka Clan
Mind Body Disturbance Technique
Mind Body Switch Technique
Mind Clone Switch Technique
Mind Disturbance Dance Performance Technique (Anime only)
Mind Puppet Switch Cursed Seal Technique
Yamanaka Clan Telepathy

Uchiha Clan
Fire Release: Dragon Flame Release Song Technique
Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Flower Nail Crimson
Manipulating Windmill Triple Blades

Uzumaki Clan

Dead Demon Consuming Seal
Five Elements Unseal

OP Summoning Monkey King Enma

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

The Third hokage's comrade in arms, the monkey king enma's transformation jutsu Characterized by the hardness of diamond and its at-will extensibility, Kongou Nyoi-Bou is Sandaime's"weapon of choice", so to speak and with it in hand he's made it through a world of war for an extended period of time.

Also, when Enma is transformed into Diamond Shifting Staff, it is also possible that he can attack out of his own free will, his claws and fangs add an element of surprise and irregularity. Forged in the fire of battle, its at-will transformation-based attack and defense go beyond the scope of proficiency, to attain the realm of Shinobi "godhood".

-The main method of attack consists in strikes and thrusts that take advantage of its extensibility. The hardness of diamond translates into destructive power.

You must be registered for see images

Heading:
自在に変幻する堅固なる獄！！
A solid prison that changes shape at will!!

Paragraphs:
金剛如意に変化した猿魔が、さらに�� �身して数十本の如意棒に姿を変え、� ��の四方八方を格子状に取り囲んで捕 縛する術。
After transforming himself into an adamantium staff, Enma clones himself in staff form then boxes the enemy into a lattice.

金剛の堅さを持つ牢壁は決して破る�� �と能わず、捕えられた敵は座して敗� ��の屈辱を知るのみ。
The prison wall with the toughness of adamantium cannot possibly be broken, and the captured enemy is left with nothing but the humility of defeat.

Durability Feats - Super Kage Bunshin???

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Hiruzen has shown to have excellent durability feats at age 69 with his Kage Bunshin as one of his clones was stabbed by Hashirama with 4 Kunai in the chest yet did not disperse until Hiruzen was done with it. He was also able to hold Orochimaru's soul for an hour long despite being stabbed through the chest by the Sword of Kusangi.

You must be registered for see images

Dangerous CQC

Spoiler

Even past his Prime, Hiruzen had showed excellent Close Quarter Combat skills. Moments after sealing parts of his soul away to seal the Edo Hokage and exhausting his remaining Chakra on Kage Bunshin, he was still able to easily disarm Orochimaru from his Sword of Kusangi with great ease and catch him to prepare his sealing Jutsu. He was also able to easily break through the Shinju branches and save Naruto despite Tobirama and Minato unable to get through.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Further Hype and Testimonials

Spoiler

Orochimaru admitting that he would be killed by a 59 year old Hiruzen.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Danzo in his dying moments admitting inferiority despite possessing Izanagi, Kotoamatsukami and Hashirama's DNA.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Kabuto, a spy who has spied on and knows all about the Shinobi countries states that an old Hiruzen was stronger then all the 5 Kage at the time. Just imagine his Prime.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Even with the entire SA and 5 Kage, Shikamaru states that only Hiruzen could contend with Guruguru at the time.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Considers himself to be the strongest in his group which also included Tobirama. Confident enough to take on the entire Kinkaku and survive.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Extra Databook Hype

Spoiler

"The sandaime, in particular, was a genius nicknamed the 'Professor,' and was called the strongest of all the Hokage".

the Sandaime was the strongest.

Databook 1, Page 117

The "Professor" revered as the strongest Hokage in history.

Databook 1, Page 119

"History's Strongest", "Genius", etc., there are many words that describe the Sandaime Hokage.

DB2 Pg 84
Konohamaru paragraph:

Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.

"Hiruzen in his Prime was able to counter every Leaf Jutsu in Existance including all MS and EMS skills." DB2 Pg 84

Konohamaru paragraph:

Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.

He who even holds the affectionate name of "Professor," being well-versed in every jutsu that exists in the village of Konohagakure

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

Yet danzo was solod by MS Sasuke. It took Orochimaru + 3 edo kages to kill Hiruzen. Hiruzen would have fared better against madara than onoki.

lol no...
danzo wouldve sealed sasuke had it not been for obitio

and oro used 2 hokage each at less than 50 % strength and also he didnt really fight with them he used them to torture hurizen... lol.. only after they were sealed he started fighting....

also he was nerfed by a lot cuz he didnt use any tech he used in part 2..

also about hurizen doing better then onooki thts funny all hurizen has is ninjutsu really which is easily countered by preta path onooki provided way to destory susanno easily with jinton...

when it was stated that hurizen was strongest kage onookis character wasnt even created yet.. the only way i see hurizen winning against him is due to his back problems cuz from the war it shows he has better stamina and jinton shits on anything hurizen has shown

 

[startup97]

lol no...
danzo wouldve sealed sasuke had it not been for obitio

and oro used 2 hokage each at less than 50 % strength and also he didnt really fight with them he used them to torture hurizen... lol.. only after they were sealed he started fighting....

also he was nerfed by a lot cuz he didnt use any tech he used in part 2..

also about hurizen doing better then onooki thts funny all hurizen has is ninjutsu really which is easily countered by preta path onooki provided way to destory susanno easily with jinton...

when it was stated that hurizen was strongest kage onookis character wasnt even created yet.. the only way i see hurizen winning against him is due to his back problems cuz from the war it shows he has better stamina and jinton shits on anything hurizen has shown

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

Fourth Databook proof!!!

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Translation: Hiruzen earned the title of professor for being a researcher. He was trained by both Hashirama and Tobirama, as the man that would succeed them. At a young age he showed greater talent than Tobirama in the Nature Elements. All five nature alterations, Hiden (clan techniques), Genjutsu, all Ninjutsu existing in Konoha which explains his reputation as the professor. Hence the essence of Hiruzen is his talent with ninjutsu. Everyone in the village is his family member

5 Elements - Not even his full power???

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Since Hiruzen was revived at old age, his chakra and power should be as low as before but wait... Tobirama states that the Hokage have been revived "close to original power" this means Hiruzen was revived weaker then he was alive at old age yet he was able to produce the 5 Elements at such mastery. Just imagine his Prime.

You must be registered for see images

Hiruzen knows and could perform all Hidden Leaf Jutsu which equals =

Spoiler

Broken Ninjutsu versatility

You must be registered for see images

Hidden Leaf Tech

Neutalizer technique, Bringer of Darkness, Great Clone Explosion and all 8 Gates at will.
Water Clone Technique
Water Release: Water Colliding Wave
Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique
Water Release: Water Encampment Wall
Water Release: Water Trumpet
Demonic Illusion: Hell Viewing Technique
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Earth Release: Hiding Like a Mole Technique
Earth Release: Multiple Earth-Style Wall (Anime only)
Eight Gates
Evil Sealing Method
Eye Mind Reading
Front Lotus
Lion Combo
Multiple Shadow Clone Technique
One Thousand Years of Death
Shadow Clone Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Water Needle
Shadow of the Dancing Leaf
Summoning: Earth Release: Tracking Fang Technique
Wind Release: Great Breakthrough


Hiruzen (Sarutobi Clan)
Fire Release: Ash Pile Burning
Fire Release: Great Flame Technique
Earth Release Shadow Clone
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth Dragon Bullet
Earth Release: Earth Flow River
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Bullet
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Flame Bullet
Roof Tile Shuriken
Shadow Clone Technique
Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique
Summoning Technique (Monkey King: Enma)
Telescope Technique


Izunaka Clan
Beast Human Clone
Dynamic Marking
Fang Passing Fang
Fang Rotating Fang (Manga only) - Capable of crushing stone
Fang Wolf Fang - The power is great enough to dent a Rashōmon gate
Four Legs Technique
Human Beast Combination Transformation: Double-Headed Wolf
Passing Fang

Akimichi clan
Butterfly Bullet Bombing
Calorie Control
Double Human Bullet Tank
Human Bullet Tank
Multi-Size Technique
Partial Multi-Size Technique
Spiked Human Bullet Tank
Super Multi-Size Technique
Super Open Hand Slap

Nara clan
Black Spider Lily
Shadow Gathering Technique
Shadow Imitation Shuriken Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Shadow Sewing Technique
Shadow–Neck Binding Technique

Yamanaka Clan
Mind Body Disturbance Technique
Mind Body Switch Technique
Mind Clone Switch Technique
Mind Disturbance Dance Performance Technique (Anime only)
Mind Puppet Switch Cursed Seal Technique
Yamanaka Clan Telepathy

Uchiha Clan
Fire Release: Dragon Flame Release Song Technique
Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Flower Nail Crimson
Manipulating Windmill Triple Blades

Uzumaki Clan

Dead Demon Consuming Seal
Five Elements Unseal

OP Summoning Monkey King Enma

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

The Third hokage's comrade in arms, the monkey king enma's transformation jutsu Characterized by the hardness of diamond and its at-will extensibility, Kongou Nyoi-Bou is Sandaime's"weapon of choice", so to speak and with it in hand he's made it through a world of war for an extended period of time.

Also, when Enma is transformed into Diamond Shifting Staff, it is also possible that he can attack out of his own free will, his claws and fangs add an element of surprise and irregularity. Forged in the fire of battle, its at-will transformation-based attack and defense go beyond the scope of proficiency, to attain the realm of Shinobi "godhood".

-The main method of attack consists in strikes and thrusts that take advantage of its extensibility. The hardness of diamond translates into destructive power.

You must be registered for see images

Heading:
自在に変幻する堅固なる獄！！
A solid prison that changes shape at will!!

Paragraphs:
金剛如意に変化した猿魔が、さらに�� �身して数十本の如意棒に姿を変え、� ��の四方八方を格子状に取り囲んで捕 縛する術。
After transforming himself into an adamantium staff, Enma clones himself in staff form then boxes the enemy into a lattice.

金剛の堅さを持つ牢壁は決して破る�� �と能わず、捕えられた敵は座して敗� ��の屈辱を知るのみ。
The prison wall with the toughness of adamantium cannot possibly be broken, and the captured enemy is left with nothing but the humility of defeat.

Durability Feats - Super Kage Bunshin???

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Hiruzen has shown to have excellent durability feats at age 69 with his Kage Bunshin as one of his clones was stabbed by Hashirama with 4 Kunai in the chest yet did not disperse until Hiruzen was done with it. He was also able to hold Orochimaru's soul for an hour long despite being stabbed through the chest by the Sword of Kusangi.

You must be registered for see images

Dangerous CQC

Spoiler

Even past his Prime, Hiruzen had showed excellent Close Quarter Combat skills. Moments after sealing parts of his soul away to seal the Edo Hokage and exhausting his remaining Chakra on Kage Bunshin, he was still able to easily disarm Orochimaru from his Sword of Kusangi with great ease and catch him to prepare his sealing Jutsu. He was also able to easily break through the Shinju branches and save Naruto despite Tobirama and Minato unable to get through.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Further Hype and Testimonials

Spoiler

Orochimaru admitting that he would be killed by a 59 year old Hiruzen.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Danzo in his dying moments admitting inferiority despite possessing Izanagi, Kotoamatsukami and Hashirama's DNA.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Kabuto, a spy who has spied on and knows all about the Shinobi countries states that an old Hiruzen was stronger then all the 5 Kage at the time. Just imagine his Prime.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Even with the entire SA and 5 Kage, Shikamaru states that only Hiruzen could contend with Guruguru at the time.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Considers himself to be the strongest in his group which also included Tobirama. Confident enough to take on the entire Kinkaku and survive.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Extra Databook Hype

Spoiler

"The sandaime, in particular, was a genius nicknamed the 'Professor,' and was called the strongest of all the Hokage".

the Sandaime was the strongest.

Databook 1, Page 117

The "Professor" revered as the strongest Hokage in history.

Databook 1, Page 119

"History's Strongest", "Genius", etc., there are many words that describe the Sandaime Hokage.

DB2 Pg 84
Konohamaru paragraph:

Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.

"Hiruzen in his Prime was able to counter every Leaf Jutsu in Existance including all MS and EMS skills." DB2 Pg 84

Konohamaru paragraph:

Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.

He who even holds the affectionate name of "Professor," being well-versed in every jutsu that exists in the village of Konohagakure

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

 

[MickNerks]

lol no...
danzo wouldve sealed sasuke had it not been for obitio

and oro used 2 hokage each at less than 50 % strength and also he didnt really fight with them he used them to torture hurizen... lol.. only after they were sealed he started fighting....

also he was nerfed by a lot cuz he didnt use any tech he used in part 2..

also about hurizen doing better then onooki thts funny all hurizen has is ninjutsu really which is easily countered by preta path onooki provided way to destory susanno easily with jinton...

when it was stated that hurizen was strongest kage onookis character wasnt even created yet.. the only way i see hurizen winning against him is due to his back problems cuz from the war it shows he has better stamina and jinton shits on anything hurizen has shown

@BOLD: This isnt a thread about hiruzen vs onoki, so why would you even bring up who could beat the other???

Just as you say oro was nerfed, you could say hiruzen was nerfed as well. I dont recall hiruzen using all 5 elements in his fight with orochimaru or using more of the konoha jutsu.

If you are gonna say orochimaru was limited its only rational to say the same about Hiruzen, as part 2 showed us more of his abilities then part one.