Sharingan really watered down the ninja them of Naruto

[Remedy]

I don't mind them either, but these particular villains where pretty much the exact same they all wanted world peace but whent about it the wrong way when most of the major villains are almost the exact same it's not very interesting. And then kishi demarcate lke that but he didn't actually do anything wrong wich is a fundamental problem because Kishi made Madara a villain yet he never did anything that was bad so why are they trying to stop his plan when they can't even prove it's a bad thing? It just creates so many fundamental problems in the story. The only major villain I really enjoyed was pain and ESCPECIALLY orochimaru.

Also about The DBZ villains, The only canon villain in DBZ that was born evil is buu all the other villains do have explanations as to why they are the way they are.

Bringing peace about and eradicating hatred was the whole point of Naruto, of course bringing peace to some capacity with some characters (even in their twisted views) was gonna be sketched into a lot of psyches.

That's like sitting down and watching 100 years to slave and saying it was too much slavery in it, that is what it's about. From this point I understand your argument and can now formulate Naruto was not your cup of tea.

As for the one dimensional DBZ villains, for the ones that slighty weren't (I'm assuming you're talking about Freiza and Cell) there still wasn't much depth to them.

 

[Da Best Ever]

Yeah, but taking out one Jounin took a toll on Itachi, and there was characters who we could imagine that could compete, I.e. Jiriaya. Now were in part 2, and how many Itachi turds do you see in vs threads using Yata and Totsuka as the universal denominator?

First off at that time and at all times kakashi was top 3 in the village especially at that time so don't say itachi got tired from fighting a jonin as if that was all he could handle. When in fact he beat kakashi very easily, and we later know itachi wasn't trying to kill him or any konoha ninja via the truth about itachi.


As for jiraya and itachi saying they'd tie...that was a lie, part 1 itachi was a liar he said that because he knew he was a good gai and would rather not unnecessarily hurt are kill konohas only defender and possible hokage candidate. Proof also he could have won is simply the same way kakashi lost which is tsukoyami whichitachi explained to kakashi only and Uchiha with a sharingan could counter...that is why when itachi said it would be a tie kisame was very adamant to disagree and say itachi could win..who knew itachi skills better than kisame?nobody but maybe obito

 

[Bling Kai]

I think Kaguya was made to satisfy those who wanted one dimensional villains but Kishi went way too far with her.

Kishi shouldn't have even made her it's becuase if her that I lost interest in the final archs of the manga. She took the spot of a character whom was very well developed and established in the story as the final villain and it's like why the hell should I care about this random ass charcter that we didn't even know existed until a few chapters ago over someone that was well established in the story as a charatcer and as the Final villain? Though if the ending had stayed the sane I would still have been very dissapionted with the pay off of the series.

If the last few arcs where different I would still be a fan of the series but damn Kishi just didn't deliver a satisfying pay off for me.

 

[Da Best Ever]

._. I don't feel like arguing this. Senju have a feat of beating the Uchiha in war, hashirama and tobirama were not the only ones fighting against the uchiha.

Flashbacks show uchiha members surrendering when madara lost the first time which proves the leaders were the deciding factors.

To help you understand better just imagine madara and izuna winning, what senju member would have stood a chance?none, they would have surrendered as well.

 

[Remedy]

First off at that time and at all times kakashi was top 3 in the village especially at that time so don't say itachi got tired from fighting a jonin as if that was all he could handle. When in fact he beat kakashi very easily, and we later know itachi wasn't trying to kill him or any konoha ninja via the truth about itachi.


As for jiraya and itachi saying they'd tie...that was a lie, part 1 itachi was a liar he said that because he knew he was a good gai and would rather not unnecessarily hurt are kill konohas only defender and possible hokage candidate. Proof also he could have won is simply the same way kakashi lost which is tsukoyami whichitachi explained to kakashi only and Uchiha with a sharingan could counter...that is why when itachi said it would be a tie kisame was very adamant to disagree and say itachi could win..who knew itachi skills better than kisame?nobody but maybe obito

So you're saying Itachi is invincible? Pretty much. Remember that scene of him covering his eyes of exhaustion after putting Kakashi in Tsukiyomi? Was he faking that? Nope, and in that particular circumstance there was nothing for Itachi to lie about, saying that Jman was a very formidable foe was the truth.

 

[V h o]

Flashbacks show uchiha members surrendering when madara lost the first time which proves the leaders were the deciding factors.

To help you understand better just imagine madara and izuna winning, what senju member would have stood a chance?none, they would have surrendered as well.

Sure.

 

[Bling Kai]

Bringing peace about and eradicating hatred was the whole point of Naruto, of course bringing peace to some capacity with some characters (even in their twisted views) was gonna be sketched into a lot of psyches.

That's like sitting down and watching 100 years to slave and saying it was too much slavery in it, that is what it's about. From this point I understand your argument and can now formulate Naruto was not your cup of tea.

As for the one dimensional DBZ villains, for the ones that slighty weren't (I'm assuming you're talking about Freiza and Cell) there still wasn't much depth to them.

You know I get that was the whole piont of the series but the villains in the series where not done very well fundamentally. Most of the vollaibs that werent made out to be misunderstood people that are trying to do good things are writen perfectly. I don't think Kishi has the experience as a writer to pull off misunderstood villains right. He did a good job with pain but He ****ed up obito (obito not so much but his motives weren't illustrated very well way to much focus on Rin. It was to the piont people believed that was HIS ONLY MOTIVE Kishi should have focused on illustrating other reasons if that was not his sole motive) and Madara BIG TIME!

Also I'm not sure how much attention you paid to the series but it's explained why all the villains are the way they are not just cell and Frieza. Though it's usually done briefly and little time is spent on explaining it. Yes its not very deep compared to some other villains but that's not a problem at all. Depth doesn't mean good writing it's just more writing detail. Now A villian like Madara that is writen to be a villain but doesn't do anything wrong yet is opposed by the Heroes of the story is a problem and bad writing, in fact it's one of if not the worst way to **** up a villain.

 

[Da Best Ever]

So you're saying Itachi is invincible? Pretty much. Remember that scene of him covering his eyes of exhaustion after putting Kakashi in Tsukiyomi? Was he faking that? Nope, and in that particular circumstance that was nothing for Itachi to lie about, saying that Jman was a very formidable foe was the truth.

Nope not saying he was invincible although Black Zetsu did say so...

Anyway in part 1 itachi was the most powerful. True hefelt the ms drawbacks butits not likekakashi made him tired like you are trying to say. Kakashi got beat pretty easily. The ms wore itachi out not kakashi, itachi used that jutsu to prove a point that uchiha sharingan>random clan given sharingan. He could have easily beatkakashi in a basic skills battle of clones taijutsu and kunai as seen how amazed kakashi was at just how fast itachi handsigns were. He never had any intent on killing kakashi nor any konoha member.

Same for jiraya he has no counter for tsukoyami he would have spent a week in the hospital next to kakashi. Itachi showed Amaterasu at that time that amazed jiraya as to how he escaped the toad mouth. No way jiraya could win, like I said it's a manga fact itachi didn't want to harm any pro konoha shinobi. He merely said that as to not have to give up his true self to kisame whoknew and said itachi could beat jiraya. Kisame is probably the best shinobi in ideals of what one should be, gai, and yamato praised kisame for his dedication as a shinobi after kisame killed himself. So why would he lie. Kabuto exposed itachi as a bigger liar and manipulator than him during the Uchiha Bros vs Kabuto fight.

Part 1 itachi is a liar and was protection konoha at all times, so why harm konohas biggest weapon Jiraya?

If you can't say how jiraya in part 1 canavoid tsukoyami then that's further proof of itachi not wanting to harm pro konoha shinobi so he said it would be a tie. Part 1 jiraya only had rasengan and toads and wack as jutsu. He would have gotten stomped by taukoyami and amatersu.. He didn't have sm in part 1 either.

 

[Da Best Ever]

Sure.

Read the manga portion and watch that anime episode.

Solo'd

 

[V h o]

Read the manga portion and watch that anime episode.

Solo'd

...sure.

 

[Remedy]

Nope not saying he was invincible although Black Zetsu did say so...

Anyway in part 1 itachi was the most powerful. True hefelt the ms drawbacks butits not likekakashi made him tired like you are trying to say. Kakashi got beat pretty easily. The ms wore itachi out not kakashi, itachi used that jutsu to prove a point that uchiha sharingan>random clan given sharingan. He could have easily beatkakashi in a basic skills battle of clones taijutsu and kunai as seen how amazed kakashi was at just how fast itachi handsigns were. He never had any intent on killing kakashi nor any konoha member.

Same for jiraya he has no counter for tsukoyami he would have spent a week in the hospital next to kakashi. Itachi showed Amaterasu at that time that amazed jiraya as to how he escaped the toad mouth. No way jiraya could win, like I said it's a manga fact itachi didn't want to harm any pro konoha shinobi. He merely said that as to not have to give up his true self to kisame whoknew and said itachi could beat jiraya. Kisame is probably the best shinobi in ideals of what one should be, gai, and yamato praised kisame for his dedication as a shinobi after kisame killed himself. So why would he lie. Kabuto exposed itachi as a bigger liar and manipulator than him during the Uchiha Bros vs Kabuto fight.

Part 1 itachi is a liar and was protection konoha at all times, so why harm konohas biggest weapon Jiraya?

If you can't say how jiraya in part 1 canavoid tsukoyami then that's further proof of itachi not wanting to harm pro konoha shinobi so he said it would be a tie. Part 1 jiraya only had rasengan and toads and wack as jutsu. He would have gotten stomped by taukoyami and amatersu.. He didn't have sm in part 1 either.

I get it, you're just an undercover Itachi fanboy, can't reason with them. Here is the proof in the pudding, egotism was never apart of Itachi's character, it was instilled by fantards, he was undercover in part1, but that didn't mean everything he said and did was a lie.He went to the Leaf warning Kisame not to underestimate the shonobi there,and what happens to Kisame? He ends up being defeated by the prime shonobi he underestimates. Itachi's limits were clearly displayed, just because he was good at covering his gaps didn't mean he didn't have any. The whole matra of his combat mentality is everything has a weakness, even he himself. The whole Jman vs Itachi thing is pointless, If Itachi was that powerful, there was no need to spy, he could've just solo'ed the Akatsuki. Then again mentioning that is pointless too.

For arguments sake, because I can feel you HAVE to be right, you are right, there...end of discussion.

 

[Rikodou Mode]

Nice thread, I agree, the Mangekyo messed everything up. But I think mokuton is to blame considering Kishi needed a reason for Uchiha to be as strong as Hashirama

Also, Uzumaki were wiped out like the Uchiha so you can argue that they were more feared than Senju :yeah:

 

[Lariatoo]

Yeah...
Im a huge fan of guys like Pain and Itachi but even I have to admit that it was way mire interesting when it was tibed down. Kunai and shuriken fights, taijutsu scrambles...
It was more exciting...

 

[Great Master Minato]

Well It's All Depend On The Each Person Abilities & Prowess...Prime Example Is Minato Who Isn't From a Special Clan But No MS User Is Strong Enough To Beat Him.

Edit: Forgot To Mention Gai Who's Top Tier Without Being Born In a Special Family Just Like Minato.

 

[LeSauce]

Before anyone harps on me, I love Naruto, I love the Uchiha, Senju etc, I loved the Sharingan, Buyukugan, Rinnegan etc., heck I was just at the movie theatre last night watching The Last.

But we can't argue the long term effects the sharingan power has done, I love how in part it was shown as a rare trait that only a few select Uchiha posses (until shippuden) and it's wasn't near invincible to counteract, in part one I could humbly say clans like Nara, Akimichi, Sarutobi could stand a FAIR chance against it (until shippuden) Then everything changed (no, not when the fire nation attacked) When the sharingan powers attacked. When Uchiha started crossing through dimensions, conquering inextinguishable black fire, forming megazords, the balance with all other clans went north. It went from stealthy techniques to brute force fist fights.

Shawdow possession? Fodder. Expansion jutsu? Fodder. Mind transfer? (Ok, not quite fodder, but almost) Ash release? Fodder, fodder compared to sharingan. In thoses moments all clans (besides Senju, Uzumaki, Hyuuga to an extent) lost strength credibility to compete. It was hard to comprehend for any clan to counter susanoo & amatersu, let alone MS or EMS. Basically toward the end, if your clan wasn't a decedent of the Otsutsuki family, you weren't perceived to be really strong in the first place, which I know Uchiha, Senju etc. being decedents of the Otsutsuki is for plots sake.

All I'm saying is I wish there would have been a proper balance among clans. Besides that I still love Naruto flaws and all, as any fan should.

Oh, It's meant to say Ninja theme.

Well I mean, they were still kind of OP without MS. When their clan alone can almost take down a village full of 7 other clans, that's pretty OP. There was no balance there.

 

[Great Master Minato]

Well I mean, they were still kind of OP without MS. When their clan alone can almost take down a village full of 7 other clans, that's pretty OP. There was no balance there.

Someone Like Minato (Who Didn't Have Any Special Power) Could Take On Villages & Their Armies All By Himself During His Lifetime When He Didn't Even Reach His Prime...Talk About OP!

 

[LeSauce]

Someone Like Minato (Who Didn't Have Any Special Power) Could Take On Villages & Their Armies All By Himself During His Lifetime When He Didn't Even Reach His Prime...Talk About OP!

Kind of off topic don't you think? But, yes that would make him OP.

 

[Dantee]

Yeah and jinchuriki, gates and tailedbeast bombs had nothing to do with it.

 

[Great Master Minato]

Kind of off topic don't you think? But, yes that would make him OP.

He Already Did Such a Thing During The 3rd Great War.

 

[closecombat1254]

Yes, part one sharingan was balanced, Shippuden was when it went south. Senju could beat Uchiha figuring that they were decedents of a godly family tree with really strong bodies.

False in part one it was borderline broken after part one it became hax