Senju's missing depiction of "bad".

[shelke]

Tobirama was ruthless to an extent. He was a "tough love" kind of guy. I still don't label him as anything that would justify this topic.

He was blatantly accused of his conduct by his brother and Orochimaru as well. I doubt it was simply tough love.

 

[KingHashirama]

He was blatantly accused of his conduct by his brother and Orochimaru as well. I doubt it was simply tough love.

So where did Hashirama accuse him of being ruthless?

Hashirama thought he persecuted them, while he only used them to their abilities.. (something a good leader does)

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[Heisenberg Wannabe]

you gave me 2 examples.

They weren't small things such as redecorating a house. Treatment of Uchiha clan was a sensitive subject, Hashirama was disappointed in Tobirama when he found out.

Edo tensei = Banned technique = Tobirama has his own ambitions, but in the end he listened to his broskie and banned it.

Yes but despite Hashirama's protest Tobirama created this jutsu. He didn't banned the jutsu because Hashirama said so, he banned it because it was quite dangerous technique and shouldn't get into the wrong hands.

His brother didn't follow Hashirama's ideals? Is that a joke?

- Went to other villages for peace conferences

- Passed on the torch to the next generation

- Valued the lifes of his villagers like Hashirama did

I never said that. You're misinterpreting what I'm saying. What I say is while Tobirama disregards Hashirama's ideas about such important matters why wouldn't rest of the clan disregards them as well ?

Yes they had different set of minds, everyone in the government does. However, notice what you are saying is only telling me Tobirama doesn't do everything Hashirama wants him to do.. But i do not care for that. Tobirama is an individual with his own mind.

Just like the rest of the clan members. There is no guarantee that everyone will follow Hashirama's way. Even his brother disregarded two direct orders/requests from him, why would third party follow everything Hashirama has to say.

However, the thread maker said why we haven't seen Senju with that kind of thinking, and I said because their leader was Hashirama senju.

And what I'm saying is while his own brother can easily ignore his opinions, other clansmen could as well.

And also, followers usually listen to the leader more than their siblings. As a sibling the "fear" or the "respect" tends to fade away. And thats why when Hashirama got serious Tobirama listened. =]

He was a full follower of the Will of Fire.

Spoiler

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Of course people listen their leader first, but there is always some who don't. And again I'm not saying Tobirama is evil or anything, what I'm saying is he can easily ignore his brothers opinions about such important matters. While his own brother could ignore him, others could ignore just as easily if not more.

 

[KingHashirama]

But he never ignored his brother's opinions. He built on them, and what he believed was right for the situation.

Hashirama was against persecution, Tobirama never did that.

And Hashirama was against Edo tensei sure, but Tobirama also has his own ambitions after all.. Not really that big of a deal, at that time atleast.


Hashirama says he told tobirama not to persecute them.. And Tobirama tells him that he didn't.

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And what Orochimaru said was also false. Uchiha came to be disliked by alot of people in the village due to not participating in defense against 9-tails.

 

[shelke]

So where did Hashirama accuse him of being ruthless?

Hashirama thought he persecuted them, while he only used them to their abilities.. (something a good leader does)

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Ruthless politics is also an apt term. One doesn't have to be blatantly ruthless. He called him out on his relentless persecution of a clan for little reason.

 

[KingHashirama]

Ruthless politics is also an apt term. One doesn't have to be blatantly ruthless. He called him out on his relentless persecution of a clan for little reason.

little reason? lets not start making big reasons into little reasons.

Persecute:

: to treat (someone) cruelly or unfairly especially because of race or religious or political beliefs

: to constantly annoy or bother (someone)



Its funny fans keep on saying that Tobirama did the Uchiha wrong.. yet all the crap started during Hiruzen and Danzo's era.. who failed to follow Hashirama and Tobirama's footsteps. And it was under Hiruzen's reign the persecution started.


He acknowledged their devotion to the village. "Police" is not something that can be given to a random clan.. it has to be a clan that is fully loyal to the country.

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[shelke]

little reason? lets not start making big reasons into little reasons.

Persecute:

: to treat (someone) cruelly or unfairly especially because of race or religious or political beliefs

: to constantly annoy or bother (someone)



Its funny fans keep on saying that Tobirama did the Uchiha wrong.. yet all the crap started during Hiruzen and Danzo's era.. who failed to follow Hashirama and Tobirama's footsteps. And it was under Hiruzen's reign the persecution started.


He acknowledged their devotion to the village. "Police" is not something that can be given to a random clan.. it has to be a clan that is fully loyal to the country.

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We have gone over this way too many times to start this all over again.

 

[KingHashirama]

We have gone over this way too many times to start this all over again.

And yet you guys for some reason always end up ignoring how Tobirama truly felt about the uchiha, or how he considered them to be.

 

[V h o]

It sucks that the senju have basically 3 representatives-Hashirama, Tobirama, and Tsunade.

 

[KingHashirama]

It sucks that the senju have basically 3 representatives-Hashirama, Tobirama, and Tsunade.

Naruto << don't forget him, hes the one who holds the chakra of the senju after all

 

[V h o]

Naruto << don't forget him, hes the one who holds the chakra of the senju after all

Not really. Although Uzumaki are like cousins, so...

 

[Fire Goddess]

It would be interesting to see a Senju curse of hatred, because it would be the least expected to happen, and their plans would have to be different from an Uchiha. If both clans originate from The sage of the six paths, and Shisui's dad of Uchiha was influenced by Tobirama for the will of fire, then it would be likely that a Senju could be influenced for curse of hatred as well, although I do think there might be something different about a particular Senju clan member who does so, but those in the Uchiha who were 'will of fire' also were different from the rest of their clan in a way.

Maybe in part 3 Orochimaru could be working for a Senju who was influenced into curse of hatred? It would be interesting to see, but not likely

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Exactly. Two. Lol

Given that the uchiha only have Four relevant characters, that's not really that much of a difference.

 

[Narusenpou]

yea
really strange

 

[KingHashirama]

Not really. Although Uzumaki are like cousins, so...

Uzumaki clan is from the senju lineage

Senju clan (of Hashirama's time) is from the senju lineage

^^^ Both are senju blood. Kushina stated Konoha's Senju clan and Uzumaki clan are cousins.. which is only logical.. the Senju clan itself was just a joining of cousins (Databook states Hashirama gathered various senju blood related groups together under him).

 

[Romy9]

He was blatantly accused of his conduct by his brother and Orochimaru as well. I doubt it was simply tough love.

they were exaggerating. Specially Hashirama whose personality simply cannot decipher what he was doing.

Given that the uchiha only have Four relevant characters, that's not really that much of a difference.

Throw in Shisui and Kagami who were at least mentioned in the light of this topic. Kishimoto could've done the same for the Senju.

It would be interesting to see a Senju curse of hatred, because it would be the least expected to happen, and their plans would have to be different from an Uchiha. If both clans originate from The sage of the six paths, and Shisui's dad of Uchiha was influenced by Tobirama for the will of fire, then it would be likely that a Senju could be influenced for curse of hatred as well, although I do think there might be something different about a particular Senju clan member who does so, but those in the Uchiha who were 'will of fire' also were different from the rest of their clan in a way.

Maybe in part 3 Orochimaru could be working for a Senju who was influenced into curse of hatred? It would be interesting to see, but not likely

Exactly. It was the same as Uchihas. I was positively surprised once we heard Itachi inherited Hashirama's will. It was unexpected and unique.

 

[Pukkake Pokayo]

Nagato kinda fits..he wanted power for a superweapon to control everything.

 

[Aznkidd]

I only have faith in some thing that all of us interested in, and that is Uzumaki clan.

 

[Romy9]

Nagato kinda fits..he wanted power for a superweapon to control everything.

If we count the Uzumakis, yeah. Although he was controlled beyond belief.

 

[Pukkake Pokayo]

If we count the Uzumakis, yeah. Although he was controlled beyond belief.

Same thing almost. After all the shit Nagato went through, he was in a pretty dark place though.