Sasuke vs Hiruzen

Eternal Sage

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2012
Messages
2,067
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Logically, hiruzen destroys him. No way is hebi sasuke kage level when he almost died to a sick, dying, holding back itachi
By feats, sasuke wins
 

Beans2

Active member
Elite
Joined
Mar 12, 2014
Messages
8,937
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Yeah...Sasuke wins this and I'll explain

-Sharingan reads Hiruzen's hand seals so he knows what nature element Hiruzen is about to use, just like Sasuke did with Deidara and Kakashi did with Kakuzu . He can therefore act accordingly and dodge it (on foot or by flying away), tank it (with CM2 Durability) or counter with his own element attacks (though this last option is only an option if Hiruzen uses a wind or an earth attack)

-Hiruzen's shurikens are tanked with CM2 durability or snakes emerging from Sasuke's curse mark (like he used to defend against Deidara's bombs or Itachi's kunai

-Regular Enma doesn't pose much of a problem, and the Enma pole may prove tricky but sharingan precog + sasuke's swift speed enables him to dodge it

-Hiruzen is finished by a) being outlasted b) a quick genjutsu followed by a blitz (situational obviously since Enma is there to break Hiruzen out of genjutsu) or c) Sasuke closes the distance and finishes Hiruzen in close combat
 

shelke

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
22,716
Kin
13💸
Kumi
30💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Hebi Sasuke is more than enough. I still find it laughable that people believe that Bee stomped Sasuke, when the lack of info and Sasuke's injuries went in his favour that one time. He deflected Sasuke's Kusanagi with his own Raiton attack, creating an opening. That's how Sasuke got stabbed.

I swear, NB. Always whining about the same things. As for enma, then Sasuke can restrain him with snake summon in Hebi forms. He instantly reverts back and is rendered useless.

Tobi planted the mines as well as warned Deidara of Sasuke's attempt to behead him. Itachi one shotted him because he's one of the most powerful genjutsu users to date, and anyone bar Jinchuriki and a few select shinobi can hope to overcome his prowess. Deidara is Kage level, despite his mindset. He was far above many people, though his personality was definitely what you state it to be, many shinobi including Madara himseld have let their arrogance and superiority complex get the best of them.

I also never stated Hebi Sasuke would beat Bee, I just pointed out he wasn't in the best shape and he was basically Base Sasuke until he achieved usage of Amaterasu. Plenty of people, including yourself take that fight out of context.

PS: It is painfully obvious Obito was testing his ability, but in the process of doing this, he very well could have indirectly killed Sasuke.
As I explained, Bee stabbed Sasuke because of the opening created through Raiton; Sasuke had no intel on this.
 
Last edited:

Icelerate

Active member
Elite
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
Messages
9,255
Kin
37💸
Kumi
30💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Chidori sharp spear is a more effective CQC weapon than Enma IMO when you take into sharingan precog, Sasuke's youth and superior speed. Also the curse mark grants Sasuke superior strength as well. Even if Sasuke gets hit by Enma, he can use oral rebirth once whereas Hiruzen is done for if he gets hit. What makes things worse for Hiruzen is that he has to avoid eye contact so hitting and timing attacks become even harder. Sasuke should be able to dodge most of Hiruzen's long ranged attacks with ease especially since they are lacking in AoE at the very beginning and only grow in AoE towards the end. Sasuke managed to stop itachi from weaving hand seals through his fast shuriken jutsu. Sasuke does the same to Hiruzen making it hard for Hiruzen to use his ninjutsu.

Sasuke should take this with high difficulty. Clone feints are problematic and could give Hiruzen some openings though.
 

MickNerks

Active member
Elite
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
6,585
Kin
77💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Hiruzen definately takes this.

By logic, Hiruzen as a HOKAGE should definately be stronger than Hebi sasuke, who would have gotten wrecked by the Gokages..

1. Hiruzen dominates in CQC.
2. All Sasuke ninjutsu is countered.
3. Genjutsu is released by enma, and if trapped in genjutsu enma can form diamond prison to protect hiruzen while he releases it.
4. Hiruzen is superior in Bukijutsu (weaponry)

Sharingan isnt saving sasuke from enma, even with precog he still wont be able to react fast enough from getting his neck shredded with the distance shortened.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Enma has the ability to instantly sprout his limbs to attack while hiruzen is using him in staff form which will bring a element of suprise to sasuke that he wont be able to react to.
You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images


And what really puts sasuke at a disadvantage is the fact that hiruzen can create kage level shadow clones, and enma can clone himself as well.. Sasuke would be greatly overwhelmed.
You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images
 
Last edited:

shelke

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
22,716
Kin
13💸
Kumi
30💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
^ Stating that Hiruzen is a Hokage and hence superior is not even a valid claim. His Edo feats also far outclass his feats when he was alive, hence that is another invalid argument. Enma is not going to save him from Genjutsu, when Sasuke can restrain him using snakes just like Ororchimaru did.

Assuming that Horuzen has better CQC is pure assumption, not backed by a single manga scan. Let's drop the hype and look at facts.
 

MickNerks

Active member
Elite
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
6,585
Kin
77💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
^ Stating that Hiruzen is a Hokage and hence superior is not even a valid claim. His Edo feats also far outclass his feats when he was alive, hence that is another invalid argument. Enma is not going to save him from Genjutsu, when Sasuke can restrain him using snakes just like Ororchimaru did.

Assuming that Horuzen has better CQC is pure assumption, not backed by a single manga scan. Let's drop the hype and look at facts.
Stating Hiruzen is a Hokage and should be stronger is valid when MS sasuke was shown to struggle against each of the kage, and kabuto clearly stated that Hiruzen at his old age was still superior to all of them. That makes it a valid claim, but I wasnt only using that as a excuse as to why hiruzen would win.

Edo Hiruzen is the exact same as Hiruzen who fought orochimaru. The definition of Edo's are shinobi who are ressurected with the same power they had when they died. So any feat that edo hiruzen shown is the same that alive hiruzen could do, and edo hiruzen is actually weaker than alive hiruzen as .

You implying hiruzen could not perform edo feats is also stating that hashirama cant use or that Tobirama cant use and FTG, because they were only shown using these techniques as edo's. That logic doesnt make since.

Sasukes snakes cant stop Enma from using Diamond Prison when Enma is already in close proximity of hiruzen.

The databook supports my claim of Hiruzen being superior in CQC, as Hebi sasuke only has a 3.5, while Hiruzen has a maximum 5. That is canonical evidence of who is superior in CQC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RicardoA

shelke

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
22,716
Kin
13💸
Kumi
30💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Stating Hiruzen is a Hokage and should be stronger is valid when MS sasuke was shown to struggle against each of the kage, and kabuto clearly stated that Hiruzen at his old age was still superior to all of them. That makes it a valid claim, but I wasnt only using that as a excuse as to why hiruzen would win.

Edo Hiruzen is the exact same as Hiruzen who fought orochimaru. The definition of Edo's are shinobi who are ressurected with the same power they had when they died. So any feat that edo hiruzen shown is the same that alive hiruzen could do, and edo hiruzen is actually weaker than alive hiruzen as .

You implying hiruzen could not perform edo feats is also stating that hashirama cant use or that Tobirama cant use and FTG, because they were only shown using these techniques as edo's. That logic doesnt make since.

Sasukes snakes cant stop Enma from using Diamond Prison when Enma is already in close proximity of hiruzen.

The databook supports my claim of Hiruzen being superior in CQC, as Hebi sasuke only has a 3.5, while Hiruzen has a maximum 5. That is canonical evidence of who is superior in CQC.
There was not a single Kage at the summit who took Sasuke alone. Your argument is again nothing but pure speculation. Ae took him on with Chee and Darui. Sasuke ended up taking his arm. Gaara intervened to save Raikage from getting skewered, and he finally attacked him together with both his siblings and Darui as well.

Mei attacked him with Choujiro. It was only Onoki that launched a blind attacked. Before that - bar Mei - Sasuke wasn't struggling. He buried them under concrete and left at his own pace. That's two Kages and four high class jounins he took on one after another. Do you actually think Hiruzen outclasses all of them combined? I don't think so.

No, he isn't. He made two clones and after that, he was basically done. The Anbu were constantly commenting that making Kage Bushins was a foolish decision on his part. His Suiton and Doton attack doesn't even make 5 % of what he used against the statue. Those were obviously the benefits of a better body. I suggest you look at the scans again, and then make this claim.

Tobirama states that they are as close to their original power as they could have been. He was not even talking about Hirusen, but explicitly mentioning the earlier time when Orochimaru used them as living corpses. How would he know at which power Hiruzen died and got resurrected? He wouldn't know anything about Minato either.

If Orochimaru can accomplish it, then so can Sasuke. You are also forgetting, that even Enma is not immune to Sharingan Genjutsu. I wouldn't use Databook numbers if I were you, given that Sasuke matched Killer Bee in Kenjutsu despite being heavily injured. Not only that, Sasuke is extremely fast. Sharingan pre-cog will only aid him more.

Then he has the CS2 form's massive durability that tanked a gigantic C2 explosion from Deidara at a cost of a single wing. I haven't even brought Manda into the equation who was besting Katsuya, Bunta, and Jiraiya.
 
Top