[Discussion] Sasuke doesn't have real MS

[Shivamcoder3013]

Naruto does not have shisuis eye. Danzo has one, and itachi has the other.

 

[ShiNoSasuke]

Are most of you guise illogical? If you CLEARY READ AND WATCHED THE EPISODE WHEN MADARA TALKS ON WHAT ITACHI DID FOR SASUKE, you wouldn't be so incoherent. Re-read or just re-watch the episodes.

 

[Floydical]

Naruto does not have shisuis eye. Danzo has one, and itachi has the other.

Naruto did in fact have Shisui's left eye in the form of Itachi's crow. It was not accessible to him, however. It was placed by Itachi to activate when he fought Sasuke and his EMS, and now the MS is gone because Itachi destroyed it.....get it?

@Dasage, don't forget that the Itachi and Nagato from the war were separate entities from the originals. Itachi's real eyes are now part of Sasuke's EMS and Nagato's real eyes are in Madara's possession. Don't forget that Edo Tensei reconstructs the person's body in its entirety, including their eyes. But they are not their originals.....get it?

 

[shk1020]

if you all ever noticed, sasuke is the only one who does not have a unique ability with his MS. Kakahshi has his dimension hole move (unique). Shusui had brainwash ability (unique). Itachi had/has tsukuyomi/amateratsu/susanoo (and also that long range attack, which he recently used). but we have never seen sasuke develop his own unique ability with his MS. even with his EMS, he is still using combinations of the old MS techniques which he got from itachi - but of course we have not seen everything/anything yet.


i have said in other places before that i hope sauske's EMS has a stage 2 (similar to bleach - ichigo's hollow transformation, if any of you read it). lol. i dont like the design of his eyes. i know we have not seen any EMS techniques besides the one sasuke showed on his re-appearance, but i just dont feel like its got the potential to be that great. the only good thing we know (for the user) is it doesnt make you blind.

 

[ReLax -]

Itachi was hoping that Madara did not know the truth. But if he did, Itachi planned to utilize Amaterasu to silence him. If he did know the truth and Itachi did nothing at all to stop him, than something similar would have happened anyway. The main difference is that by doing what he did, Itachi gave himself a chance to stop Madara in his tracks. It seems strange, however, that Itachi knew so much about Madara without knowing about his space-time techs.

I'm pretty sure, Itachi knew about the space/time but however didn't know about Izanagi (well at least he didn't know Tobi knew it).

 

[Floydical]

I'm pretty sure, Itachi knew about the space/time but however didn't know about Izanagi (well at least he didn't know Tobi knew it).

I'm certain that he used his transportation tech to survive the amaterasu, not Izangi. That is what Kishi implied, that is what everyone believed, and that is what is considered to be fact. The thing is that we knew about his space-time tech at that time and not Izangi. In reality, it made perfect sense that he survived it only using his space time tech as an escape.

We know that he could get himself out of inescapable trouble with the space time tech, ie being engulfed in Shino's bugs, so getting away from amaterasu is not much of a stretch. It seemed that as soon as he could manage to activate the jutsu, he escaped to another dimension, therefore negating the flames, and came back into frame with minimal damage. In hindsight, it makes more sense that he came out of it unharmed considering most of his body is likely made of Zetsu material. It just seems more likely to me that he survived by using transportation, not Izangi.

The only other counter-argument for Izangi that I can think of is that Izangi only works if you have a bit of a jump on the competitor, right? What I mean is that I don't think you can use Izangi to transform reality into genjutsu while its happening...I think you can only change an instant in time if you see it coming. Like when Sasuke delivered Danzo's killing blow....Madara said "Oh you didn't have time to activate Izangi, did you?" It seems to me that he has to activate it before anything happens, then has a set duration of time to change anything that happens to him from reality to illusion. So there is no way, in my mind, that he used Izangi to survive it because he had to no time to activate it. Does that make sense to people?

 

[ReLax -]

I'm certain that he used his transportation tech to survive the amaterasu, not Izangi. That is what Kishi implied, that is what everyone believed, and that is what is considered to be fact. The thing is that we knew about his space-time tech at that time and not Izangi. In reality, it made perfect sense that he survived it only using his space time tech as an escape.

We know that he could get himself out of inescapable trouble with the space time tech, ie being engulfed in Shino's bugs, so getting away from amaterasu is not much of a stretch. It seemed that as soon as he could manage to activate the jutsu, he escaped to another dimension, therefore negating the flames, and came back into frame with minimal damage. In hindsight, it makes more sense that he came out of it unharmed considering most of his body is likely made of Zetsu material. It just seems more likely to me that he survived by using transportation, not Izangi.

The only other counter-argument for Izangi that I can think of is that Izangi only works if you have a bit of a jump on the competitor, right? What I mean is that I don't think you can use Izangi to transform reality into genjutsu while its happening...I think you can only change an instant in time if you see it coming. Like when Sasuke delivered Danzo's killing blow....Madara said "Oh you didn't have time to activate Izangi, did you?" It seems to me that he has to activate it before anything happens, then has a set duration of time to change anything that happens to him from reality to illusion. So there is no way, in my mind, that he used Izangi to survive it because he had to no time to activate it. Does that make sense to people?

Teleportation couldn't have saved him, only because amaterasu was already on Tobi and as far as we know it keeps burning until the target turns to dust, so as we have been introduce with Izanag safe to assume that was what saved him from the attack. He couldn't have tped and than all of a sudden get rid of amaterasu like that.

Tobi would have had Izanagi already activate when going to speak with Sasuke, IMO he probably always has it activate with anyone he confronts for back up. He knows how Sasuke is and may even attack him so therefor he must have activate Izanagi before speaking with Sasuke, for if Sasuke attacks him.

 

[Floydical]

Teleportation couldn't have saved him, only because amaterasu was already on Tobi and as far as we know it keeps burning until the target turns to dust, so as we have been introduce with Izanag safe to assume that was what saved him from the attack. He couldn't have tped and than all of a sudden get rid of amaterasu like that.

Tobi would have had Izanagi already activate when going to speak with Sasuke, IMO he probably always has it activate with anyone he confronts for back up. He knows how Sasuke is and may even attack him so therefor he must have activate Izanagi before speaking with Sasuke, for if Sasuke attacks him.

No you don't understand the power of his transportation. Take shino's bugs for example; they completely lost Madara's trace when he transported..... Shino confirms that this is IMPOSSIBLE.... at least under normal circumstances. If he transported to anywhere on the plane of reality, Ie anywhere on earth, the bugs would have followed him. This means that when he transports......HE GOES TO ANOTHER DIMENSION. And simply put.....Amaterasu's flames are limited to the plane of reality. So the flames would not have gone with him because they would have been trying to destroy his body on the normal plane of existence and when his body left that plane of existence, the flames vanished too because there was no longer a target to destroy. Get it?

And don't tell me that he always had Izangi active because that's impossible. Not him, nor Danzo, had access to a form of Izangi that lasted more than a minute. He was shown activating it just before Konan used her tech, he did not have it active the whole battle.

So assuming he activated Izangi at the start of his conversation with Sasuke is a ridiculous inclination because there is no way he would consider Sasuke a threat in his current state and never would he imagine that Itachi did what he did to stop him......seriously there's no way.

And finally, Kishi did all this like 80 chapters before he introduced Izangi, so its crazy to think he'd have us go so long without knowing the truth on the matter, especially without explaining it after learning the truth. I mean we have learned about the truth of things long after once we were given more info, but never has Madara said that thanks to Izangi was he able to survive that situation. I think it is 100% clear that he used transportation to survive.

Edit:

Okay let me try to make this even more clear. When he uses transportation, he does not instantly appear in a new place. Perhaps, if that were the case, Amaterasu would follow him, but remember that he gradually erases his existence from the normal plane of existence, then once this task is done, he focuses and begins to re-establish is existence in another location. Whether this other location is the same place he just was, whether it is some totally different place on earth, or if it was his other dimension, it doesn't matter, he can do it whenever he wants. So as he erased his existence into a state of temporary nothingness, the flames momentarily had nothing to burn and therefore were extinguished. Then after the flames were gone, he re-established himself good as new. Hope that makes sense.

 

[ReLax -]

No you don't understand the power of his transportation. Take shino's bugs for example; they completely lost Madara's trace when he transported..... Shino confirms that this is IMPOSSIBLE.... at least under normal circumstances. If he transported to anywhere on the plane of reality, Ie anywhere on earth, the bugs would have followed him. This means that when he transports......HE GOES TO ANOTHER DIMENSION. And simply put.....Amaterasu's flames are limited to the plane of reality. So the flames would not have gone with him because they would have been trying to destroy his body on the normal plane of existence and when his body left that plane of existence, the flames vanished too because there was no longer a target to destroy. Get it?

And don't tell me that he always had Izangi active because that's impossible. Not him, nor Danzo, had access to a form of Izangi that lasted more than a minute. He was shown activating it just before Konan used her tech, he did not have it active the whole battle.

So assuming he activated Izangi at the start of his conversation with Sasuke is a ridiculous inclination because there is no way he would consider Sasuke a threat in his current state and never would he imagine that Itachi did what he did to stop him......seriously there's no way.

And finally, Kishi did all this like 80 chapters before he introduced Izangi, so its crazy to think he'd have us go so long without knowing the truth on the matter, especially without explaining it after learning the truth. I mean we have learned about the truth of things long after once we were given more info, but never has Madara said that thanks to Izangi was he able to survive that situation. I think it is 100% clear that he used transportation to survive.

Edit:

Okay let me try to make this even more clear. When he uses transportation, he does not instantly appear in a new place. Perhaps, if that were the case, Amaterasu would follow him, but remember that he gradually erases his existence from the normal plane of existence, then once this task is done, he focuses and begins to re-establish is existence in another location. Whether this other location is the same place he just was, whether it is some totally different place on earth, or if it was his other dimension, it doesn't matter, he can do it whenever he wants. So as he erased his existence into a state of temporary nothingness, the flames momentarily had nothing to burn and therefore were extinguished. Then after the flames were gone, he re-established himself good as new. Hope that makes sense.

These are all just assumption. There is no reason for Tobi to hide his space/time from Itachi. He was using the tech VS the 4th. Why would Itachi not have known of it despite having knowledge about Tobi? He just used the space/time in the whole Kakashi and his team encounter where Shino bugs couldn't detect him (which you stated). His space/time was like Minato space/time they used it a lot, so no point in hiding it from Itachi. If his space/time avoided amaterasu like it was nothing, than whats the point of Izanagi? why not just keep using space/time? Why use Izanagi in Konan battle when he could have used space/time? It erases him from existence, I mean amaterasu clearly touched him he should have marks or burnt stuff and if he can someone how regenerate like his arm than he must be invincible.

Kishi did 100 or so chapter, till we find out Itachi was actually good and like 50 so chapters till Sasuke's EMS was revealed. It makes more sense that Tobi referred to Izanagi than his space/time.

Sorry could write a lot more to back my opion/assumption up but it's late down here so, I'm off I'll replay tomo to anything else

 

[Itz Me Orochimaru]

itachi did not pass any techs to sasuke, sasuke didnt kill itachi, and sasuke's new EMS is merged with itachi's as it shows him saying "these eys...can see fine in the darknes" in the manga...if itachi did pass any techs, how come sasuke doesnt have the tsukuyomi?of course there techniques would be similar like susanoo and amaterasu becuase they are brother in the same family...i dont even watch naruto/read that much but i at least kno this much

 

[Floydical]

These are all just assumption. There is no reason for Tobi to hide his space/time from Itachi. He was using the tech VS the 4th. Why would Itachi not have known of it despite having knowledge about Tobi? He just used the space/time in the whole Kakashi and his team encounter where Shino bugs couldn't detect him (which you stated). His space/time was like Minato space/time they used it a lot, so no point in hiding it from Itachi. If his space/time avoided amaterasu like it was nothing, than whats the point of Izanagi? why not just keep using space/time? Why use Izanagi in Konan battle when he could have used space/time? It erases him from existence, I mean amaterasu clearly touched him he should have marks or burnt stuff and if he can someone how regenerate like his arm than he must be invincible.

Kishi did 100 or so chapter, till we find out Itachi was actually good and like 50 so chapters till Sasuke's EMS was revealed. It makes more sense that Tobi referred to Izanagi than his space/time.

Sorry could write a lot more to back my opion/assumption up but it's late down here so, I'm off I'll replay tomo to anything else

Well he couldn't use space/ time to survive Konan's assault because she was aware of the limits of his tech, so it was a situation that only his Izangi could concur. I really stated all my legitimate points, but perhaps one final point is that perhaps the eye must see its target to use Izangi. Like when he broke his mask to use it in his fight with Konan and how Danzo's sharingans were open to the environment as well. If this is in fact the case, then he couldn't have used Izangi because he never broke his mask. I don't know for certain, but perhaps this is true.

Honestly, I believe all the evidence points to him using Space/ time to survive and I think most people would agree with me. Its not hard for most people to imagine that this is how he survived.

 

[Turson]

Honestly, I believe all the evidence points to him using Space/ time to survive and I think most people would agree with me. Its not hard for most people to imagine that this is how he survived.

Actually, Im sure that Madara used Izanagi. Its close to impossible that Itachi didnt know about Madaras S/T jutsu. Izanagi fits just perfectly.

 

[ReLax -]

Well he couldn't use space/ time to survive Konan's assault because she was aware of the limits of his tech, so it was a situation that only his Izangi could concur. I really stated all my legitimate points, but perhaps one final point is that perhaps the eye must see its target to use Izangi. Like when he broke his mask to use it in his fight with Konan and how Danzo's sharingans were open to the environment as well. If this is in fact the case, then he couldn't have used Izangi because he never broke his mask. I don't know for certain, but perhaps this is true.

Honestly, I believe all the evidence points to him using Space/ time to survive and I think most people would agree with me. Its not hard for most people to imagine that this is how he survived.

Konan was only aware of his body thing, where attacks go thru him (which I don't think is a part of his S/P). So, why couldn't he? Amaterasu was a direct land attack and so were Shino bugs (if I'm not mistaken), why couldn't he use it on Konan direct hit attack? It doesn't add up to me, like I said only Izanagi seems possible in that situation. Tobi's S/T is used a lot throughout the manga, I just don't see him not using it in front of Itachi, since they know about each other and have encountered one another. I'm not saying your comparing Danzou and Tobi's Izanagi but they are totally different, as Danzou had incomplete version and Tobi has complete. We know what Danzou incomplete version is capable of but not Tobi's complete version.

It's not hard to imagine him using Izanagi either and there are a lot who would agree with this also.

 

[Floydical]

Konan was only aware of his body thing, where attacks go thru him (which I don't think is a part of his S/P). So, why couldn't he? Amaterasu was a direct land attack and so were Shino bugs (if I'm not mistaken), why couldn't he use it on Konan direct hit attack? It doesn't add up to me, like I said only Izanagi seems possible in that situation. Tobi's S/T is used a lot throughout the manga, I just don't see him not using it in front of Itachi, since they know about each other and have encountered one another. I'm not saying your comparing Danzou and Tobi's Izanagi but they are totally different, as Danzou had incomplete version and Tobi has complete. We know what Danzou incomplete version is capable of but not Tobi's complete version.

It's not hard to imagine him using Izanagi either and there are a lot who would agree with this also.

I'm starting to see more legitimacy in your position, but honestly I've never heard anyone mention the possibility that he used Izangi to survive Sasuke's implanted Amaterasu.

Perhaps you should make a separate thread about it.

 

[psukkar]

this is how ms unlocks,

itachi unlocked it when shuis died itachi didnt even have anything to do with his death. Shuis planned his death and got itachi to merely help out with his final message.

So i dotn see your point about sasuke.

Everyone unlocks it via a distressed situation. Even nagato unlocked his rinnegan when people killed his parents.

You cant plan these powerful like in the case of naruto is actually training for his powerups.

 

[Uzumaki Sasuke]

Sasuke got ALMOST EVERYTHING IN HIS LIFE ON A SILVER PLATER incuding Mangekyou Sharingan.