KidGamer65
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Chidori has never required hand signs. It can be used with hand signs if one choose.
Sasuke (Chunin Exams) vs Kiba/Akamaru (Sasuke Rescue Arc)
- Thread starter blackpantherisb
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Chidori has never required hand signs. It can be used with hand signs if one choose.
Hand signs mold the chakra. They are required. HOWEVER, you can hold a lot of chakra to perform that type of jutsu over and over. Ill make a thread!
KidGamer65
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Chidori has been used without hand signs despite it being the first usage, so no, this is wrong.
Nope Chidori has never been used before a user can mold raiton chakra through manipulation atleast until the end where they were Sages with an affinity for all chakra types.
When Shinobi wield hand seals its not to use that specific jutsu. Its to mold chakra for jutsu(s).
When Sasuke used seals to mold Lightning chakra it enabled him to use multiple. So if he molded enough chakra for 4 chidori then he cna use 4 without having to use seals again.
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This is the point at which Sasuke molded enough chakra to use the 2 Chidori he used that didnt require seals.
It literally makes no sense to say that shinobi can use hand seals if they choose to or not. There must be a fundamental. As they improve their affinity and molding it gets to the point where they rarely have to use seals to mold chakra. Madara and Hashirama both proved this when they used massive scale attacks with only 1 hand seal
Rasengan is RAW manipulation of chakra not molded chakra
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Naruto molds the chakra internally then manipulates it into a ball.
The process of molding is creating the chakra itself. Naruto isn't CREATING chakra when he forms rasengan. He is releasing it and shaping it into a ball.
Lord Tywin
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Forbidden Technique
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Ya'll really need to read more carefully. Nowhere did I say or even slightly imply that Kiba was beating Sakon/Ukon. I said he had a better showing than Sasuke, who was also getting his ass handed to him during their brief 1vs1. Sakon alone beat Sasuke in base, while Sakon relied heavily on his combinations with Ukon, and even CM1 to pulverize Kiba. It wasn't until Ukon went CM2 when he wanted to get the fight over with. Both were getting wrecked, except it took more out of Sakon/Ukon against Kiba. Sasuke only relying on taijutsu isn't an excuse, because Kiba's Wolf fang is classified as taijutsu as well.
I said having the same DB score in speed puts them in the same ball park. In other words, Sasuke isn't so much faster than Kiba that he is going to be completely outclassing him. Especially when you factor in that it's essentially 2vs1 (with Akamaru) and the boost in speed that they gain while in his All 4's techniques.
It's a manga fact that Sasuke needs time to use Chidori, as he outright stated himself [
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]. So if and when Kiba grabs him like he did to Sakon/Ukon, Dynamic Marking easily hits as Sasuke isn't breaking out his grasp with Chidori. If Sasuke opts to using Chidori at any point, than Kiba simply responds with his strongest technique. He doesn't need to land the urine, since Sasuke is just going to beeline straight at him. Fang Wolf Fang>>>>>>Chidori, and it's not even close. Kiba wins.
KidGamer65
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I never said you claimed Sakon and Ukon were being beaten. I simply said Kiba was getting whooped just like Sasuke. The whole first paragraph was already addressed in my post. Sakon and Ukon weren’t pressured to do anything at all until Kiba transformed. Sakon and Ukon were beating him in Base so why would CM1 be a necessity? Makes no sense. That and a Taijutsu fight proves nothing when talking about a match as a whole.
Outclassing him? No, I agree that he won’t.
He used it against Gaara without that preparation, so no, that’s obviously not necessary. Lmao it baffles me how you can post this when I just posted a scan of him using Chidori without “prep” to free himself from Gaaras sand. The whole point of Sharingan is that a follow up attack can be dodged. Sasuke evades the urine, evades fang over wolf fang and then Kiba dies a horrible death. Even the whole “Kiba holds him in place thing” isn’t gonna happen here as Sasukes finishing tech is a jutsu that prevents stuff like that from happening.
KidGamer65
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Please stop it. Do I have to get the over a dozen scans where Sasuke and Kakashi use raikiri/Chidori without hand signs?
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Raikiri Kunai.
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Chidori
All the jutsu that don't require hand seals at all.
-Amaterasu
-Susanoo
-Kamui
-Most if not all Dojutsu
-Rasengan, which obviously involves the moulding of chakra as that is how Ninjutsu is formed at it's core.
Bold is also wrong. Lmao don't assume stuff based on nothing. If this was true then jutsu wouldn't have their own hand seal sequence nor would Sharingan be able to read hand signs and produce the jutsu that was going to be used before the original user can bring it out. (Itachi vs. Kabuto)
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Forbidden Technique
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Sakon relied on Ukon against Kiba. They both split bodies to stop Kiba/Akamaru's attack. They utilized their combinations punches/kicks way more against Kiba than he did against Sasuke.
??????? Talk about baffling, I know many people on this section flagrantly disregard manga facts, but you? Sasuke said himself he needed time to use the jutsu. Manga fact. You can't dispute that. He molded enough chakra from the first time in order to use it again in the scan you posted, however it still took the prior preparation. Urine isn't chakra based, so Sharingan isn't assisting him with that. Clearly, Sakon/Ukon are on a whole different tier than both Kiba and Sasuke, yet Kiba was able to take his hit and hold to him. He does the same thing against Sasuke, who, despite of Sharingan, is still vastly inferior to Sakon/Ukon. You can't simply evade Fang Wolf Fang, the shockwaves will still slice him up.
Lord Tywin
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Sasuke explicitly said that he couldn't use Chidori more than 2 or 3 times or it would result in death. He had already used one Chidori to penetrate the sand dome. On your scans he uses that lightning technique twice. If that's Chidori then Sasuke is already long dead :lol
KidGamer65
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Relied? You need to stop using this bad logic. They easily countered Gatsuuga without getting creative like they were later on against him. That's Kiba's strongest attack outside of his transformation. Kiba did nothing in that fight that forced them to use anything beyond Ukon blocking a second attack. We are blatantly shown such. Kiba was getting beat up and then they decided to use triple limb attacks and then they decided to use CM2.
This whole "Kiba forced them to use more thus his showings are superior" argument makes no sense unless someone can show me where Kiba did anything other than get stomped.
Huh? What are you talking about? The bold is literally based on nothing. Where has that ever been how jutsu have been explained to work? Never. A ninja moulds the chakra needed for the jutsu then they transform it into a nature and release said jutsu.
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That's far less time than it took for his initial use. I'll agree that at that time it took him a little bit of preparation to use the jutsu.
However, as Kratos has confirmed that wasn't Chidori as Sasuke can only use Chidori twice in a day without the Curse Mark. So this drawback is irrelevant to the point. If (Which he won't, ever) Kiba grabs onto Sasuke and Sasuke rips free. Urine being chakra based or not is also irrelevant. Sharingan tracks movements of everything that moves. It wouldn't make any sense if it could only track objects with chakra.
-Obito tracked Gai's Nunchaku and warped them. Yes, Gai let that happen, but Obito still tracked them.
-Sarada used Sharingan to evade Shin's weapon attack.
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Bold is poor transitive logic. Sakon and Ukon punch. It's possible for Kiba to hold onto said hit after taking the punch. Sasuke's finishing tech is Chidori if he wants to get up close against a foe Taijutsu is ineffective on. Please tell me how Kiba is going to take a hit from Chidori like he did Sakon/Ukon's tech and then hold onto said arm long enough for Akamaru to mark him? He won't, that's how, because when Chidori hits him he's a dead man. That is unless this match became hand to hand without me realizing it. :lol
And the shockwaves only slice you up if you dodge too narrowly as the shockwaves will only be close to the body of the wolf. [
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] So Sasuke dodges and Kiba meets his end once he uses up all his power. Even more so if the Curse Mark comes into play.Lmao. You got me there. So that means it was just basic lightning manipulation, which actually helps my argument a lot.
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Lord Tywin
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KidGamer65
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Yes, relied. Do you need to be referred to the webster dictionary? Because it wasn't used improperly.
Kiba got around Sakon's backside, and then Sakon relied on Ukon to counter.
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Kiba and Akamaru pinned Sakon/Ukon with Gatsuuga, and it required Sakon to completely awaken and use his full body to counter.
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Kiba could dodge a single punch from just one of them, but not their combined effort.
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It was the full participation of both Sakon and Ukon that was beating Kiba, while it was nearly just Sakon who was beating Sasuke.
Based on nothing? We know that the user molds chakra before using a jutsu, which is what Sasuke must of been alluding to by the time required to use the jutsu. What happens if they mold more chakra than what that single jutsu requires? Ninjutsu isn't a constant. You can choose how much chakra you want to invest in it. If it wasn't Chidori, then what is it? The manga also says if Chouji uses the red pill, he'd surely die. So what's your point? He used it IIRC 3 times, which was his exact limit. And this is CE Sasuke, so I'm not concerned with what he did afterwards. It's a manga fact that CE Sasuke requires time to use Chidori. That's all that needs to be said about that.
Um, okay, and...? It doesn't require a Sharingan to track nunchucks or any other weapons. That's already on the surface for the naked eye to see. There isn't a single Dojutsu that can see or predict urination. It is a bodily fluid that can only be seen once leaving the body. It's completely unpredictable, shown when Sakon or Ukon got hit by it again [
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].Stop creating impractical scenarios. Sasuke is never using taijutsu against Kiba? He's just going to be given the amount of time to charge up Chidori, and attack Kiba with it? Just stop it already. He engaged in taijutus with Gaara first, so there is no reason to believe he wouldn't do so against Kiba. Kiba grabs him, just like he grabbed a far superior opponent in CM2 Sakon/Ukon, and Akamaru lands the urine. It's a manga fact that CE Sasuke can't use Chidori on a whim, so Kiba doesn't have an issue here. Even if he could, Kiba was physically capable of holding CM2 user in place by grasping the forearm. Sasuke isn't physically superior, and Chidori is only in the hand, not the forearm.
Lmao, yeah, imagine thinking CE Sasuke is so much faster than CM2 Sakon/Ukon that he could evade Fang Wolf Fang by such a wide margin that he's completely unscathed from it's AoE. No shot of that happening. He gets shredded.
You just proved my point. Hand seals simply mold chakra to that affinity to allow you to use a specific jutsu or mold more chakra for a larger jutsu. As a user gets more proficient they require less seals or even no seals at all IF they have that specific affinity of chakra stored. This is why Kakashi and Sasuke both became extremely proficient at using Raiton without seals. They mastered that affinity type meaning they require less and less eals to eventually no seals at all.
The mechanism behind dojutsu abilities are the eyes themselves UNLESS a user must mold chakra to perform a larger scale jutsu.
Examples:
Madara using Meteor vs SA
Madara using IT
Sasuke needing to prepare his eye for Amaterasu vs Kaguya (This implies that he had no Chakra molded for his EMS or ran out of molded chakra)
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Seals are nothing more than a mechanism for molding affinity for a specific chakra OR molding chakra for larger scale jutsu.
Just to clarify. Seals are used to mold chakra. Not perform jutsu
When Sasuke used seals at CE. He molded enough chakra to perform more than 1 Chidori
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