Sasuke Can Use Genjutsu Without Eye Contact. Why Do People Deny This?

[Jokule67]

Sasuke only uses Doujutsu Genjutsu nothing else. Nothing dissproves this.

Doujutsu genjutsu hypnotizes through eye contact. So however Sasuke did it, he did it through eye contact. Everyone was listening to Sasuke speak. He used the eye contact to hypnotize them.

 

[Ricardo]

In Sasukebase we had a discussion on this :-

Me :

Spoiler

This is a thread based on an explanation to the event in which Sasuke one-shotted the Bijuus.

You must be registered for see links

Note : This thread needs manga panels as evidence, so I would appreciate if you guys can collect it for me. I have slow net. MP means Manga Panel.

First off, we know that the Bijuus were in a complete circle when summoned by Hagoromo.

MP: Showing Bijuus in circle.

Now, we know that Sasuke didn't spin like a Ballerina to bring every bijuu in his Vision Range and put them in Genjutsu.

MP: Sasuke standing in same spot, didn't move an inch after Rinne Genjutsu.

On Top of that Hagoromo said Sasuke did it with just a glance, so complete eye contact didn't happen.

MP: Insert Hagoromo Statement panel.

So, how did all the Bijuus fall under Rinne Genjutsu ?

Explanation - 1 : Bijuu Mind Link

We know that all the Bijuus have a mental link to Naruto. They are separate mental entities with a connection.

MP : Hagoromo's statements of Kuruma being a mental link between Naruto and Bijuus.

MP: Bijuus co-operating with Naruto mentally throughout Madara - Kaguya - Sasuke (Only Kuruma) Fights.

We can assume that if one bijuu falls under Rinne Genjustu, the Genjutsu spreads through the mental link and puts all the Bijuus in Genjutsu.

But, this also makes Naruto fall under Rinne genjutsu because of his mental link to the Bijuus.

The only reason Naruto didn't fall under Rinne Genjutsu was because Sasuke wanted to fight him.

MP: Insert Panels showing Sasuke's resolve to fight Naruto.

If a bijuu falls under Rinne Genjustsu, there is no one to break Naruto out of said Genjutsu thus the "Perfect Jin Immune to Genjutsu" statement is invalid.

Explanation - 2 : Izanami Workings :-

We know that Izanami is a genjutsu that works on all senses rather than only vision.

MP: Put panels of Itachi saying this after putting Kabuto in Izanami.

Rinne Genjutsu perhaps works on the same principle as it didn't require eye contact. ^See Above.

This makes Rinne Genjutsu extremely OP as it's instant (Supported By Hagoromo) and requires no long term preparations like Izanami.

MP: Find panels showing Itachi saying that Izanami takes time to set up.

This also would explain Rinne Genjutsu/Mugen Tsukuyomi working on Blind people; it works on senses, not on Vision.

Sasuke has a watered down Mugen Tsukuyomi. Why you may say ?

Well, if Sasuke can block Mugen Tsukuyomi, why can't he cast it ? All that he would need will be the moon to act as an eye to put everyone in the illusion. Sasuke can easily create a Moon by using Chibaku Tensei.

MP: Panels of Black Zetsu saying Sasuke can block Mugen Tsukuyomi.

Michael :

Spoiler

Sasuke genjutsu'd the bijuu externally, Naruto still had half kurama within. Try Again

Me :

Spoiler

Basically it means that Yin Kuruma was inside Naruto and not in the external environment. This would mean that the Bijuus inside Naruto will be immune to Rinne Genjutsu. This means the mind link theory breaks down cause if the minds were connected then even Yin Kuruma should fall under Rinne Genjutsu also cause Sasuke only intended to not hit Naruto.

A counter explanation would be that Sasuke didn't consider Yin Kuruma within Naruto at all. This makes sense cause Sasuke did not see Yin Kuruma getting transferred to Naruto by Obito.

The first argument is shaky, so I would go with the second argument.

FU Sam, i thought we were friends... disliking my posts n' shit

 

[Edogawa]

Which would be contradictory to the necessity that Sharingan: Genjutsu requires eye-contact, and evidently Hagoromo said he did it with a glance.

 

[Detonator99]

Nobody denied anything, but i found odd that the only people that rinnegan sasuke has put on genjutsu are non rikudou chakra users, does that means that they are immune or something?

 

[ROHAN]

FU Sam, i thought we were friends... disliking my posts n' shit

What OP wrote was not a wall of text in any form. So, next time you use a joke you should keep in mind that it fits the situation. :cat

 

[Ricardo]

What OP wrote was not a wall of text in any form. So, next time you use a joke you should keep in mind that it fits the situation. :cat

Screw you Sam! You're no fun anymore :wesobi:

 

[ROHAN]

Screw you Sam! You're no fun anymore :wesobi:

Actually, I came up with this reason later on.

My dislike was actually a bait to see your reaction. kun:

 

[Ricardo]

Actually, I came up with this reason later on.

My dislike was actually a bait to see your reaction. kun:

LIES !! You're trying to become a Aizen now ?!

 

[SharinganProdigy]

Sasuke only uses Doujutsu Genjutsu nothing else. Nothing dissproves this.

Doujutsu genjutsu hypnotizes through eye contact. So however Sasuke did it, he did it through eye contact. Everyone was listening to Sasuke speak. He used the eye contact to hypnotize them.

Way to go not reading the thread at all. There are several instances of doujutsu genjutsu NOT REQUIRING EYE CONTACT: kotoamatsukami, Sasuke's sharingan genjutsu (somewhat debatable), izanagi, izanami, and the only other known rinnegan genjutsu, infinite tsukuyomi, not requiring eye contact. Hell, amenotejikara doesn't even require the selected space to be within the rinnegan's line of sight to work. You're just downplaying for no reason and your information is wrong. Lol at you saying he made eye contact with people behind him. Are you saying the rinnegan has 360 degree vision or that Sasuke twirled?

Does NO ONE read the OP on this website? I can't wait for you to explain why kotoamatsukami works without eye contact specifically...

Which would be contradictory to the necessity that Sharingan: Genjutsu requires eye-contact, and evidently Hagoromo said he did it with a glance.

Same deal to you...you're just going to pretend like it should require eye contact and all other doujutsu genjutsus require eye contact as well?

Glance =/= eye contact as stated in the OP...

Hagoromo says he did this "with a single glance." People use this line to say that eye contact must be required then. How does that make any sense? I believe this argument comes from a severe misunderstanding of what "eye-contact" means. Eye contact is "the act of looking directly into another's eyes"/"a meeting of the eyes of two persons." That means that Hagoromo saying he did it with a glance ("to look quickly or briefly") does not in any way imply that Sasuke somehow looked into a bijuu's eyes as that bijuu happened to look back into his eyes at that exact moment and then did this eight more times. That's ridiculous. Glance =/= eye contact.

Simply put, you can glance without meeting someone else's eyes. I can glance at my friend's backpack but that doesn't mean I also looked my friend in the eyes...

Nobody denied anything, but i found odd that the only people that rinnegan sasuke has put on genjutsu are non rikudou chakra users, does that means that they are immune or something?

Check out the people in this very thread. How is it odd by the way? There are significantly less rikoudou characters than there are regular characters so even then, him not using it on them =/= must be immune. Either way, no one knows and likely never will.

 

[SharinganProdigy]

Actually, I came up with this reason later on.

My dislike was actually a bait to see your reaction. kun:

I just noticed my response never went through to you because I quoted the response that had links in it. Were you agreeing that Sasuke used genjutsu without eye contact?

 

[V h o]

Well glance does mean they looked at him, in some shape or form so it being ridiculous is not invalidating the argument. Sasuke has done far more ridiculous things in the past, for example avoiding Deidara's explosion. Also when did KA, Izanagi, Izanami, IT, or Amenotejikara say they required eye contact? For the Sakura example, I do believe Sasuke turned around even so eye contact could have been made there as well.

 

[ROHAN]

I just noticed my response never went through to you because I quoted the response that had links in it. Were you agreeing that Sasuke used genjutsu without eye contact?

Genjutsu works via affecting the five senses of a person. Most Eye Doujutsus work on affecting the sense of sight. But there are other eye doujutsus which affect all five senses like Izanami and Mugen Tsukuyomi. In that case eye contact is not a requirement because there are still four other senses to affect via a Genjutsu. Since Sasuke did not make eye contact, he would have then used a Genjutsu which worked on all five senses.

 

[InfiniteMugen]

I honestly don't really see why he couldn't, he got deidara without looking(as others have pointed out) and I guess you could be a nay sayer and say that he made eye contact with deidara early on and used it later(kind of like he did with danzo, he made eye contact, used that itachi genjutsu as a fake out for what he was really doing, making danzo think he had more sharingans open then he did) the glance though to the bijuu is a good example. There's no way he could of made eye contact with all of them at once, unless they just all happened to look in his eyes when he started talking... I say he could. He has itachis eyes, he mentioned itachis power flowin through him, I don't see why he couldn't genjutsu people without looking directly in their eyes

 

[~Ethereal~]

Hmmm...

 

[SharinganProdigy]

Well glance does mean they looked at him, in some shape or form so it being ridiculous is not invalidating the argument. Sasuke has done far more ridiculous things in the past, for example avoiding Deidara's explosion. Also when did KA, Izanagi, Izanami, IT, or Amenotejikara say they required eye contact? For the Sakura example, I do believe Sasuke turned around even so eye contact could have been made there as well.

Glance does not mean he looked at them. The only thing that Hagoromo's line "and with a single glance too" tells us is that Sasuke's rinnegan was at the very least open in order to perform his genjutsu.

@bolded: What are you talking about? When did I say that that's what was stated about those techniques??? People use "rinnegan genjutsu is an ocular technique so it must require eye contact" as an argument. In order to show that this is not always the case, I listed several ocular genjutsu techniques that do not require eye contact. I listen amenotejikara as a rinnegan technique that can also function without eye contact. It wasn't that hard to follow so make a better strawman next time, please.

 

[SharinganProdigy]

Well glance does mean they looked at him, in some shape or form so it being ridiculous is not invalidating the argument. Sasuke has done far more ridiculous things in the past, for example avoiding Deidara's explosion. Also when did KA, Izanagi, Izanami, IT, or Amenotejikara say they required eye contact? For the Sakura example, I do believe Sasuke turned around even so eye contact could have been made there as well.

Ugh, my first reply to you has to be approved so it didn't go through. That's not what glance means. The ONLY thing Hagoromo's statement tells us is that Sasuke's eye had to be at the very least open in order to perform his rinnegan genjutsu. It doesn't say anything about looking at the bijuu or anything at all. For example, Itachi glances at many things while performing izanami. This does not mean that you can conclude the technique requires eye contact, but it does require the eye to at least be open.

Addressing the bolded: When did I ever say that those techniques were stated to require eye contact? If you're going to try for a strawman, you'll need a stronger one than that. The argument that "the rinnegan genjutsu is an ocular one, therefore it needs eye contact" is consistently made when this topic is brought up. I listed several ocular genjutsus that show eye contact is actually not necessary meaning that argument is invalid. I mentioned amenotejikara because it is definitely worth mentioning that Sasuke has another rinnegan technique that also functions without the need for eye contact (it's AoE just like this genjutsu seems to be).

You say Sasuke turned around for Sakura even though it's not shown but as I said in the OP, I'm not arguing this point.

What Sasuke did against Deidara was totally legitimate. I wish I could link you the thread that shows this but as this is ultimately unrelated, I won't argue about this either.

 

[Amazeballs]

So let me get this straight. Everything that goes along with what I said is deemed as an "exception" because you say so? Is that a joke? Manga fact: there are doujutsu genjutus that can be used without eye contact. Whatever you want to call it doesn't invalidate said facts. You don't have to assume eye contact occured because the only other rinnegan genjutsu doesn't require it and we have several examples of doujutsu genjutsu not requiring it as stated in the OP.

Because it shows something you don't like, it's also just "plot." Incredible.

Izanami specifically uses physical sensations. Izanagi affects reality, and doesn't operate as a typical Genjutsu; most importantly, it actually affects the user, not the opponent. So yes, these are very different from a typical Sharingan technique that causes a visual illusion or hynosis.

The "plot" I refer to is merely that Kishi doesn't explicitly show the panels of eye contact each time that it occurs, or allows eye contact at implausible distances. It's not really that different from how Kishi has Naruto and Obito have a lengthy conversation using "indoor" voices, despite Obito standing on top of the Juubi half a mile away. It isn't meant to imply super-hearing or voice magnification, it's just "plot" in the sense that Kishi wants the conversion to occur and doesn't care if it necessarily makes sense physically.

Believe what you will about Sasuke's Genjutsu feats. I'm not a butthurt fanboy or a Sasuke hater, I just read the manga and try to factor in things like plot, pacing, and other elements of storytelling when I assess feats. When discussing things like speed feats, for instance, it is often relevant to consider the author's intent. Most often, a "speed blitz" is used at dramatic moments to make a character look cool, but that same character will often succumb to slower opponents or fail to replicate the feat later on; KCM Naruto had hugely hyped speed, but rarely lived up to the hype. Genjutsu is another example; it often is used to allow a break in the fight for dialogue, or to add an unpredictable twist to a fight. However, it only ends a fight when Kishi allows it to. The same often applies to chakra reserves, or which techniques characters use (Obito basically forgot that he had Mokuton; Kaguya didn't see Sakura's punch coming, despite having Senjutsu senses and the Byakugan).

I don't use the word "plot" to imply that a technique doesn't make sense; oftentimes, I find that considering the needs of the plot are actually the best way for a technique to make sense. But this has been a bit of a tangent; I mostly wanted to address my use of the word "plot." Carry on.

 

[SharinganProdigy]

Izanami specifically uses physical sensations. Izanagi affects reality, and doesn't operate as a typical Genjutsu; most importantly, it actually affects the user, not the opponent. So yes, these are very different from a typical Sharingan technique that causes a visual illusion or hynosis.

The "plot" I refer to is merely that Kishi doesn't explicitly show the panels of eye contact each time that it occurs, or allows eye contact at implausible distances. It's not really that different from how Kishi has Naruto and Obito have a lengthy conversation using "indoor" voices, despite Obito standing on top of the Juubi half a mile away. It isn't meant to imply super-hearing or voice magnification, it's just "plot" in the sense that Kishi wants the conversion to occur and doesn't care if it necessarily makes sense physically.

Believe what you will about Sasuke's Genjutsu feats. I'm not a butthurt fanboy or a Sasuke hater, I just read the manga and try to factor in things like plot, pacing, and other elements of storytelling when I assess feats. When discussing things like speed feats, for instance, it is often relevant to consider the author's intent. Most often, a "speed blitz" is used at dramatic moments to make a character look cool, but that same character will often succumb to slower opponents or fail to replicate the feat later on; KCM Naruto had hugely hyped speed, but rarely lived up to the hype. Genjutsu is another example; it often is used to allow a break in the fight for dialogue, or to add an unpredictable twist to a fight. However, it only ends a fight when Kishi allows it to. The same often applies to chakra reserves, or which techniques characters use (Obito basically forgot that he had Mokuton; Kaguya didn't see Sakura's punch coming, despite having Senjutsu senses and the Byakugan).

I don't use the word "plot" to imply that a technique doesn't make sense; oftentimes, I find that considering the needs of the plot are actually the best way for a technique to make sense. But this has been a bit of a tangent; I mostly wanted to address my use of the word "plot." Carry on.

Izanagi and izanami, regardless of what you would like to believe, are both doujutsu genjutsu techniques which do not require eye contact. Whoops, you forgot to try to justify why kotoamatsukami, which affects opponents like a regular genjutsu would, (which isn't even relevant mind you) totally doesn't fit in with what you deem as "regular" doujutsu genjutsu techniques. You can't just take a select few techniques that prove a point and put them in a category of their own, then argue as if those select few never happened and don't exist. What you're saying is barely relevant.

At bolded: What? That is not the same as Sasuke's rinnegan genjutsu. This isn't about distance; it's about it being physically impossible for his rinnegan to have made eye contact with several bijuu that surround him. There is quite honestly nothing to get around these manga facts:

1. There are several doujutsu genjutsu techniques that do not require eye contact meaning it is not valid to say Sasuke's genjutsu should.

2. The only other rinnegan genjutsu we have seen does not require eye contact.

3. It's impossible for Sasuke to have made eye contact with the bijuu from his position.

4. Nothing indicates that Sasuke looked at all bijuu (especially nothing indicating he made eye contact).

You can call it plot, you can call it Granny's Peach Tea for all I care, it won't change what happened in the manga which shows Sasuke performing ocular genjutsu without eye contact. You're basically denying what the manga is showing without any support in order to take away a feat from a character. I'd probably call that hating on said character.

 

[V h o]

Ugh, my first reply to you has to be approved so it didn't go through. That's not what glance means. The ONLY thing Hagoromo's statement tells us is that Sasuke's eye had to be at the very least open in order to perform his rinnegan genjutsu. It doesn't say anything about looking at the bijuu or anything at all. For example, Itachi glances at many things while performing izanami. This does not mean that you can conclude the technique requires eye contact, but it does require the eye to at least be open.

No it means they looked at him in some way. Your initial post tells this even. Eye being opened is obvious if someone is looking at something. At bold where is this stated? It also doesn't make sense. The manga said sharingan genjutsu uses eye contact, it's part of the ability/technique. :lol

Addressing the bolded: When did I ever say that those techniques were stated to require eye contact? If you're going to try for a strawman, you'll need a stronger one than that. The argument that "the rinnegan genjutsu is an ocular one, therefore it needs eye contact" is consistently made when this topic is brought up. I listed several ocular genjutsus that show eye contact is actually not necessary meaning that argument is invalid. I mentioned amenotejikara because it is definitely worth mentioning that Sasuke has another rinnegan technique that also functions without the need for eye contact (it's AoE just like this genjutsu seems to be).

Sorry I thought you were saying that. But that logic/reasoning is wrong. Nothing has said any of those techniques require eye contact so.

You say Sasuke turned around for Sakura even though it's not shown but as I said in the OP, I'm not arguing this point.

Like a panel before Sasuke genjutsu's sakura, his foot is shown to move (there's writing next to his foot showing some form action happened even). So yeah he turned around. Edit:
Furthermore the panel of him genjutsuing Sakura has his head turned more...so yeah he did look towards her for that... :elmo:

What Sasuke did against Deidara was totally legitimate. I wish I could link you the thread that shows this but as this is ultimately unrelated, I won't argue about this either.

Care to explain how Sasuke did: summoning manda, genjutsu manda, and then reverse summon away, while the explosion was exploding. Logically sasuke is fast as all hell for this. So if Sasuke can do that, I see nothing wrong with getting eye contact with the bijuu :lol

 

[SharinganProdigy]

No it means they looked at him in some way. Your initial post tells this even. Eye being opened is obvious if someone is looking at something.

I'm going to assume you mean "he" instead of "they." No, it doesn't. There is nothing that indicates Sasuke looked at all of them. He just trapped them all in genjutsu even though several bjuu are out of his line of sight which means he got them without eye contact. As for my point here, glance means a hurried look. He glances forward, meaning at the least, his eye must be open, not that he did a 360 to look at every beast.

At bold where is this stated? It also doesn't make sense. The manga said sharingan genjutsu uses eye contact, it's part of the ability/technique. :lol

Are you denying the existence of kotoamatsukami, izanami, and izanagi...? These are sharingan genjutsu that do not use eye contact so at what point will you stop lying?

Sorry I thought you were saying that. But that logic/reasoning is wrong. Nothing has said any of those techniques require eye contact so.

It's the same logic/reasoning that you're using right now so how are you going to trash talk it? You're saying that Sasuke's genjutsu had to require eye contact because sharingan genjutsu requires eye contact. This is a rinnegan genjutsu first of all, and there are sharingan genjutsu that do not require eye contact so you're wrong.

Literally said I'm not arguing the Sasuke/Sakura panel yet you try to keep going. I said the same thing about Sasuke/Deidara yet you're actively trying to derail toward other things lmao? I would link the reddit post that explains it but I cannot link.