Sasori vs ...

[Brother Numpsay]

Conditions:

1. The conditions can be set to Sasori's benefits, wither to start with or without Hiruko, etc.

2. Sasori Kazkage puppet has Gaara's sand jutsus (Sand Gourd usage ONLY)

3. Sasori can use any character he can defeat as a Human Puppet (which design, traps, and weapons vary base on character trait)

Character List:

- Tayuya
- Kidomaru
- Jirobo
- Kimimaro
- Kakuzu (w/ High Scale Hahonryū for featless Mask)
- Deidara
- Kisame
- Itachi
- Deva Path
- MS Sasuke
- Ay
- Onoki
- Mei
- Tsunade
- Gaara
- Kakashi
- Guy (8th Gate restricted)
- 3rd Raikage
- Muu
- Gengetsu
- Rasa
- etc.


Note: Who do you think he can't beat? What is the bare minimum character(s) he needs access as a Human Puppet, to make a possible defeat?

 

[Beans2]

Ignoring fanfic conditions

- Tayuya
- Kidomaru
- Jirobo
- Kimimaro

Sasori beats these guys

- Kakuzu (w/ High Scale Hahonryū for featless Mask)
- Deidara
- Kisame
- Itachi
- Deva Path
- MS Sasuke
- Ay
- Onoki
- Mei
- Tsunade
- Gaara
- Kakashi
- Guy (8th Gate restricted)
- 3rd Raikage
- Muu
- Gengetsu

Sasori loses

- Rasa

3rd>4th Kazekage in canon

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Ignoring fanfic conditions

That's the main theme for this thread. Its not a typical ,unoriginal, match up we see over and over. And ignoring that would mean adding irrelevant/off topic points and discussion. If it doesn't interest you, then don't post here. Simple.

 

[super yang]

the only listed shinobi he can't already reliably beat in canon is Kakuzu, a rai'ton shroud user, Deva, Uchihas & Muu.

the 1st two conditions won't change that & the 3rd doesn't interest me since its essentially Edo Tensei, yuck.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

the 3rd doesn't interest me since its essentially Edo Tensei, yuck.

What if he is only allow to summon only 2 at a time?

 

[super yang]

What if he is only allow to summon only 2 at a time?

- Kimimaro
- Kakuzu
- Deidara
- Kisame
- Itachi
- Deva Path
- MS Sasuke
- Ay
- Onoki
- Mei
- Tsunade
- Gaara
- Kakashi
- Guy
- 3rd Raikage
- Muu
- Gengetsu
- Rasa

I guess he could beat either uchiha w/ gengetsu & gaara puppets or beat kakuzu w/ gaara & rasa puppets, but its still ridiculous

 

[Brother Numpsay]

- Kimimaro
- Kakuzu
- Deidara
- Kisame
- Itachi
- Deva Path
- MS Sasuke
- Ay
- Onoki
- Mei
- Tsunade
- Gaara
- Kakashi
- Guy
- 3rd Raikage
- Muu
- Gengetsu
- Rasa

I guess he could beat either uchiha w/ gengetsu & gaara puppets or beat kakuzu w/ gaara & rasa puppets, but its still ridiculous

Yea I was hoping you would use bare minimum character's arsenal to beat so and so. It seems your underrating Sasori if you think he needs 2 big shot characters to take out 1 Kage level opponent.

IMO, the only characters that Sasori needs an extra "perk"(Puppet) would be against characters with untouchable defenses via Raikage and Susanoo users. Also untouchable speedsters. As simply having Tayuya's genjutsu or ethereal ghost, backed up by Kazekage puppet, can create the gap to bypass their defenses and finish them with a projectile or poison gas.

As you stated previously, which Ill address now, I dont see IS being as weak as Regular Sand against Raiton. The defense is stronger and even if it successfully went through, close range Raiton attacks via Taijutsu would damaged themselves and die from poison. Long Range Raiton isn't guaranteed to reach Sasori's heart, which is the only relevant part in damaging Sasori.

Other then that, Kazekage is all thats needed for everyone else.

 

[super yang]

Yea I was hoping you would use bare minimum character's arsenal to beat so and so. It seems your underrating Sasori if you think he needs 2 big shot characters to take out 1 Kage level opponent.

there is literally noone who rates sasori higher than me. 'was simply trying to follow your query...

IMO, the only characters that Sasori needs an extra "perk"(Puppet) would be against characters with untouchable defenses via Raikage and Susanoo users. Also untouchable speedsters. As simply having Tayuya's genjutsu or ethereal ghost, backed up by Kazekage puppet, can create the gap to bypass their defenses and finish them with a projectile or poison gas.

ok

As you stated previously, which Ill address now, I dont see IS being as weak as Regular Sand against Raiton. The defense is stronger and even if it successfully went through, close range Raiton attacks via Taijutsu would damaged themselves and die from poison. Long Range Raiton isn't guaranteed to reach Sasori's heart, which is the only relevant part in damaging Sasori.

well, I think iron sand is weaker than regular sand against rai'ton, but stronger than regular sand in general/any other time

Other then that, Kazekage is all thats needed for everyone else.

yeah, w/ his canon arsenal, he beats all but Kakuzu, a rai'ton shroud user, Deva, Uchihas & Muu, imo.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

there is literally noone who rates sasori higher than me. 'was simply trying to follow your query...

You dont think needing gengetsu & gaara combo is a bit extreme to take out a single Uchiha listed?

well, I think iron sand is weaker than regular sand against rai'ton, but stronger than regular sand in general/any other time

Explain

yeah, w/ his canon arsenal, he beats all but Kakuzu, a rai'ton shroud user, Deva, Uchihas & Muu, imo.

Kakuzu and him are nearly dead equal, as in a case of defeating each other. I fail to see how you dont think Sasori stands a chance.

Raiton shroud users depends on how Sasori uses his IS usage, at least against the 4th. While 3rd Raikage is a bad match up for Sasori (with his only hope Raikage inhaling poison).

Deva path only wins with CST. CT can be countered by shielding himself with Iron. ST = dont get too close or else Kazekage breaks. So the battle is not far too off.

I dont see how Muu remotely stands a chance here. IS can makes Muu imprints and IS comes out faster then Jinton (plus can change its flight course.). Muu can't stop him

 

[super yang]

You dont think needing gengetsu & gaara combo is a bit extreme to take out a single Uchiha listed?

it is overkill yes, just one would do. neither brother even has large scale means to counter sand/steam mist. i was just following your query. it is ridiculously imbalanced.

explain

iron is stronger, but it will conduct electricity

I see the armor blowing thru it & preventing scratches on the younger raikge

I see kakuzu overpowering the sand at will
sasoris stronger than kakuzu to me, its just a bad match up

deva path can BT sasori to him, pierce iron sand egg w/ chakra rods that interrupt the sand integrity & make the 1st hit count w/ the guidance of the doujutsu. zombies are immune to poison.


muu simply jin'tons sasori & casts off the poison w/ body split

 

[Brother Numpsay]

it is overkill yes, just one would do. neither brother even has large scale means to counter sand/steam mist. i was just following your query. it is ridiculously imbalanced.

Well I did ask for bare minimum. Not sure how that = taking it too far

iron is stronger, but it will conduct electricity

If what you say is true then the claim actually supports IS defense even further. The whole purpose of Raiton is to penetrate defenses, or along with killing the opponent. If it conducts, it no longer has the ability penetrate, as the electricity flows through out the Sand. So what happens next?

I see the armor blowing thru it & preventing scratches on the younger raikge

4th Does not have the same durability as his father. No feats suggests his doesn't get pierce

I see kakuzu overpowering the sand at will

Please clarify what you mean by that. Because it seems like your implying Sakura CES < Kakuzu in scenario. Or simply overpowers it grappling makes no sense.

sasoris stronger than kakuzu to me, its just a bad match up

K

deva path can BT sasori to him, pierce iron sand egg w/ chakra rods that interrupt the sand integrity & make the 1st hit count w/ the guidance of the doujutsu. zombies are immune to poison.

BT, means 5 secs of free time for Sasori, which = free kill( Deva is wide open after that move). chakra rods doesnt work that way via against ninjutsu, even then would require feats in piercing IS defense. Zombies are not immune to poison. They still run on flesh, otherwise those paths wouldn't be outputting blood from opposing attacks. So poison will respond to that, and its

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.

muu simply jin'tons sasori & casts off the poison w/ body split

As I said, how is Muu going to cast Jinton to an attack faster then he can pull out?

 

[super yang]

If what you say is true then the claim actually supports IS defense even further. The whole purpose of Raiton is to penetrate defenses, or along with killing the opponent. If it conducts, it no longer has the ability penetrate, as the electricity flows through out the Sand. So what happens next?

the armor itself doesn't penetrate, it buffers & disrupts & since the constructs of iron are temporal & fluid, I think the armors vibrations, combined w/ the velocity of the user has the priority in that exchange.
think - sasukes katana bouncing off the armor at the summit, vs Ei, if U recall
thats how I prefer to view it

4th Does not have the same durability as his father. No feats suggests his doesn't get pierce

well I do consider them the same character, but again, this has more to do w/ my view on the armor either way

Please clarify what you mean by that. Because it seems like your implying Sakura CES < Kakuzu in scenario. Or simply overpowers it grappling makes no sense.

no, w/ elemental spam vs sand/100 puppets, sorry.

BT, means 5 secs of free time for Sasori, which = free kill( Deva is wide open after that move). chakra rods doesnt work that way via against ninjutsu, even then would require feats in piercing IS defense. Zombies are not immune to poison. They still run on flesh, otherwise those paths wouldn't be outputting blood from opposing attacks. So poison will respond to that, and its

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.

zombies don't have chakra, they receive transmission to the rods, from nagatos relay. thats what moves them. if U want to take away that side of the pein rikudo system, then sure, sasori wins
the blood from the paths injuries is just artistic preference & a dash of realism.

As I said, how is Muu going to cast Jinton to an attack faster then he can pull out?

I guess the jin'ton wil have to vaporize a path thru it. muu can always retreat, observe, then attack. and he can't already be trapped in a web of sand sensing before the match starts.
I don't see why he would try to get close to such an ominous & unorthodox opponent

 

[Brother Numpsay]

the armor itself doesn't penetrate, it buffers & disrupts & since the constructs of iron are temporal & fluid, I think the armors vibrations, combined w/ the velocity of the user has the priority in that exchange. thats how I prefer to view it

Though that makes sense, it doesnt change the fact that the shroud user, uses his physical body to perform the attack. So even if he bust open a sharp defense, breaking it would also exchange physical contact with his body, while at it.

well I do consider them the same character, but again, this has more to do w/ my view on the armor either way

Above

no, w/ elemental spam vs sand/100 puppets, sorry.

Spamming doesn't add much. Not every element is a factor, so they will be vulnerable angles to catch Kakuzu. While Sasori can play both Attack and Defense. Mask being out in the open is easy kill for IS attack speed.

zombies don't have chakra, they receive transmission to the rods, from nagatos relay. thats what moves them. if U want to take away that side of the pein rikudo system, then sure, sasori wins
the blood is just artistic preference.

True @ Bold but the poison still responds to their functioning body, a body that can die by a stab. @Underline, not true [

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]. J man landed a vital/fatal stab, leading to their deaths. Its not artistic its required for their functioning body.

I guess the jin'ton wil have to vaporize a path thru it. muu can always retreat then attack.
I don't see why he would try to get close to such a ominous & unorthodox opponent

For him to make a path thru is to fire Jinton before Iron Shards catches him. And Jinton charge is not out speeding IS's attack. Muu is completely vulnerable in the air, and to add:

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[super yang]

True @ Bold but the poison still responds to their functioning body, a body that can die by a stab. @Underline, not true [

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]. J man landed a vital/fatal stab, leading to their deaths. Its not artistic its required for their functioning body.
[/CENTER]

I disagree that the stab was vital. nagato simply chose to regroup after seeing that genjutsu trap, which would have trolled him.
there was a script there, working from jiraiyas view & ignorance. it was only a vital stab to a human, in his thinking.(it was also seemingly, to pin them to the ground)
once the trump card was out of the way...
the blood was in fact preference & realism, furthering that script.

why did hell path heal them later? cuz 1. foreshadowing & 2. it made it startlingly apparent to the reader & jiraiyas resignation & fukasakus awe, just how powerful the six paths system is.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

I disagree that the stab was vital. nagato simply chose to regroup after seeing that genjutsu trap, which would have trolled him.
there was a script there, working from jiraiyas view & ignorance. it was only a vital stab to a human, in his thinking.(it was also seemingly, to pin them to the ground)
once the trump card was out of the way...
the blood was in fact preference & realism, furthering that script.

why did hell path heal them later? cuz 1. foreshadowing & 2. it made it startlingly apparent to the reader & jiraiyas resignation & fukasakus awe, just how powerful the six paths system is.

Either way of our disagreement, these bodies can be effected by physical damage and pain. And can lose their lives with physical damage. Nagato could no longer received chakra into their bodies if it was a simple corpse that just needs chakra to use them as mere puppets.

 

[super yang]

Either way of our disagreement, these bodies can be effected by physical damage and pain. And can lose their lives with physical damage. Nagato could no longer received chakra into their bodies if it was a simple corpse that just needs chakra to use them as mere puppets.

they were corpses from the very beginning...
I don't think pain affects them.
physical damage has some effect as they need to have the use of their limbs for mobility & such.
I don't think nagatos transmission was lost either. & if their eyes were intact, then he hadn't lost visual perception either.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

they were corpses from the very beginning...
I don't think pain affects them.
physical damage has some effect as they need to have the use of their limbs for mobility & such.
I don't think nagatos transmission was lost either. & if their eyes were intact, then he hadn't lost visual perception either.

Rasengan to the gut took out Deva [

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][

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]. It stop Nagato from using the "corpse". From what Im seeing Nagato puts life into them, and the damage you can do to them, is as if they were human flesh. Kill it again, and they are back to corpse.

 

[super yang]

Rasengan to the gut took out Deva [

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][

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]. It stop Nagato from using the "corpse". From what Im seeing Nagato puts life into them, and the damage you can do to them, is as if they were human flesh. Kill it again, and they are back to corpse.

Thats not how I see it.
its like banging on an old T.V. to alter the reception, if U know what old television sets looked like & worked.
besides the obvious plot convenience of the fight needing to end dramatically, that was simply k.o.ing the path, symbollically, in typical shounen protagonist, falcon-punching fashion. extreme shock & force jarred nagatos relay to the rods.

there was also the matters of nagatos resolve & stamina playing into the resolution of that fight - the only reason deva couldn.t have still carried on is because of them.

it could also be argued that the rasengan shattered the rods(along w/ nagatos resolve/patience/exhaustion)

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Thats not how I see it.
its like banging on an old T.V. to alter the reception, if U know what old television sets looked like & worked.
besides the obvious plot convenience of the fight needing to end dramatically, that was simply k.o.ing the path, symbollically, in typical shounen protagonist, falcon-punching fashion. extreme shock & force jarred nagatos relay to the rods.

Irrelevant to my point. My point basically showed that an attack did the damage to stop Nagato's control over Deva's life, as he admitted Naruto from "destroying".

there was also the matters of nagatos resolve & stamina playing into the resolution of that fight - the only reason deva couldn.t have still carried on is because of them.

Im going to go by Nagato's statement on why he couldnt no longer[

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]


Especially when he still had the will to fight, throwing a rod at Naruto (and said the closer he was the stronger his rods work). And the chakra to revive the whole village.

 

[super yang]

Irrelevant to my point. My point basically showed that an attack did the damage to stop Nagato's control over Deva's life, as he admitted Naruto from "destroying".



Im going to go by Nagato's statement on why he couldnt no longer[

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]


Especially when he still had the will to fight, throwing a rod at Naruto (and said the closer he was the stronger his rods work). And the chakra to revive the whole village.

well I go by feats and the original line of consistency. deva had no ''life'' to begin with; its yahikos corpse.
*looks at coinciding pic of naruto ''destroying'' deva by pulling out bloody rods in hopes of ending the conflict*

absolutely nothing was destroyed. I know forced resolutions, nerfing & plot convenience when I see it.

unless the rods were broken, or nagato was tired, the fight could've continued.