Sasori > MS Sasuke

AGoodBoy

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Lol please share.

Read OP first because I guarantee you I covered it concerning "not relying on MS"
Do you mean this?

So with everything said from here, how will this battle start? We know that Sasuke can lose by only obtaining one scratch from Sasori's attack or one whiff from poison gas (He doesn't know that).

How exactly will Sasuke deal with Hiruko? Keep in mind, using MS against him is the beginning of the "strain process". So lets say he attempts to finish off Hiruko without MS. It will be a risk for Sasuke to lose the fight in the beginning of the match by getting scratch.

The manga applies that Hiruko attacks are like solving a puzzle in a way to dodge them specifically.[X]
He also applied that you need blunt force to defeat and break this defense[X]
If Sasuke is not going to be using MS in this situation but rely on Raiton attacks to penetrate Hiruko it will only make Sasuke more vulnerable to Sasori's sebons and tail, because Sasori does not feel pain.[X]

Also the Sharingan has not been able to predict object as well as people. Because the mechanics are completely different: since the muscles have a certain delay to move, the Sharingan should see that and anticipate the movements accordingly; the problem is that what I just explained doesn't happen with a projectile/object, so I don't think the Sharingan will be useful vs. traps. Thus leaves Sasuke relying on his Speed to successfully dodge the traps.

In the end, it seems Sasuke has to rely on MS attacks to successfully own Hiruko. If not, thats his risk of getting scratch. If he does, the MS "straining process" begins here.

But lets say Sasuke uses Sussanoo arrow against Hiruko to finish this. Wouldn't that be gameover? Most likely not due to the location of the core. As long as Sasuke aims at the same spot he always aims at (center chest) Sasori can always break his body apart and let it reconstruct when the body is damaged.[X]
Traps
You state the Sharingan isn't as good at predicting objects as well as people. Well, sure that's true, however, those objects don't move with that much speed. Sasuke on his on has enough speed to effectively dodge these objects being sprayed at him. In fact, sasuke doesn't even need to move as he can counter with his skill and the help of the sharingan - And, no, these aren't harder to hit than itachi's kunai when you consider the fact that itachi can toss his kunai in different orders, whereas the traps move linearly in an arc pattern. The fact chiyo, an old woman, didn't get a scratch from traps is more than enough evidence that a young, high speed, sharingan wielding user would effortlessly dodge or counter them. Unless you believe chiyo is better than an uchiha at their own game when she also didn't know about the traps.

Destroying Hiruko


<--- destroy core while still in hiruko
Take your pick.

Right there, the fight is already over as sharingan sees the flow of chakra [x][ ][ ][ ][ ] therefore would know exactly where sasori's chakra strings originate( his core).

Assuming Sasori survives and leaves hiruko, He still can't touch sasuke as now sasuke can see his chakra strings and predict his attacks based on the movement of his chakra strings and fingers... Oh, he can while we're at it, making puppets like Kazekage useless until re-attached. Meaning, Sasori dies long before he reattaches the strings.

3tomoe sasuke wins.
EDIT: so does 3tomoe itachi, based on relatively similar principles.
 
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Brother Numpsay

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I can tell you didn't read through the thread where people already address with Sasuke. I don't expect you, so Ill just let you know that Ill quote myself once again.

Traps
You state the Sharingan isn't as good at predicting objects as well as people. Well, sure that's true, however, those objects don't move with that much speed. Sasuke on his on has enough speed to effectively dodge these objects being sprayed at him. In fact, sasuke doesn't even need to move as he can counter with his skill and the help of the sharingan - And, no, these aren't harder to hit than itachi's kunai when you consider the fact that itachi can toss his kunai in different orders, whereas the traps move linearly in an arc pattern. The fact chiyo, an old woman, didn't get a scratch from traps is more than enough evidence that a young, high speed, sharingan wielding user would effortlessly dodge or counter them. Unless you believe chiyo is better than an uchiha at their own game when she also didn't know about the traps.
Having the right speed still doesn't benefit the user to successfully dodge all the traps and patterns the puppet uses. Second Hiruko is NOT a spam bot lets read what the manga describes it then what "our eyes wants to view it like". Hiruko attacks are not spam. It is describe what it is (patterns):
I can give you two more sources making this undeniable fact (I post the first one again). [ ] [ ] [ ]
This means they are meant to be dodge in a certain way. If Sasuke lacks the intel of understanding Sasori's pattern of booby traps will only result from him getting scratch.

Here:
1. You brought up an interesting point of Sasuke shurikens. Indeed Sasuke can use his skills to block senbons that way he did with Itachi. But we have to be honest with out selfs at the end of the day. Sasuke doing that is only stalling the attacks. Who do you think will run out of tools first in this fight? The answer is obvious. Hiruko packs more tools then Sasuke to eventually Sasuke has to engage into doing something else, after running out [ ]

Destroying Hiruko


<--- destroy core while still in hiruko
Take your pick.
Here is what I said concerning using Raiton attacks:

3. I mention the concerns of using Raiton to beat Hiruko. If penetrating does not hit the "bulls eye" then its useless, but will break Hiruko (And Sasori will self-repair). Here and I quote:
"If Sasuke is not going to be using MS in this situation but rely on Raiton attacks to penetrate Hiruko it will only make Sasuke more vulnerable to Sasori's sebons and tail, because Sasori does not feel pain."

This quote, Ill elaborate a tiny bit. Sasori can still use a sneaky booby-trap before the use of Hiruko is over.
Your the first to bring out Chidori Blossom. That is indeed a percentage chance of hitting the core. If not then Sasuke is left open. Sasuke will not know about the core so its only by chance that the spikes so happen to aim at the heart here is why "seeing core through chakra is wrong":
2. You made a great observation for Sasuke. Indeed Sasuke has the intelligence to come up with that focus. Unfortunately the core is the live part that controls/active the chakra that is stored IN the Human Puppet. Let me elaborate. First read Chiyo's words [ ]. Sasori builts in engine for the chakra to be stored as you see <--Kazekage. And Sasori's personal <-- (in his next chest plate).


Right there, the fight is already over as sharingan sees the flow of chakra [x][ ][ ][ ][ ] therefore would know exactly where sasori's chakra strings originate( his core).
2. You made a great observation for Sasuke. Indeed Sasuke has the intelligence to come up with that focus. Unfortunately the core is the live part that controls/active the chakra that is stored IN the Human Puppet. Let me elaborate. First read Chiyo's words [ ]. Sasori builts in engine for the chakra to be stored as you see <--Kazekage. And Sasori's personal <-- (in his next chest plate).


Assuming Sasori survives and leaves hiruko, He still can't touch sasuke as now sasuke can see his chakra strings and predict his attacks based on the movement of his chakra strings and fingers... Oh, he can while we're at it, making puppets like Kazekage useless until re-attached. Meaning, Sasori dies long before he reattaches the strings.

3tomoe sasuke wins.
EDIT: so does 3tomoe itachi, based on relatively similar principles.
Seeing chakra string means nothing as its the Iron Sand jutsu and speed of the attack is whats dangerous. Cutting the strings will be almost impossible with Sasori's fighting tactic in a 1v1 match. Sasori is not dumb enough to even stretch the strings to engage CQC. But hypothetically speaking:

3. Cutting the strings is a non factor to a puppet master as they can simply reattach it, same with Kunkuro's situation.[ ] [ ]. That could also possibly open another booby trap.
Itachi fails to have similar principles considering he doesn't have lightening variants. He even failed to understood Sasukes booby trap and end up getting hurt from it [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
 

AGoodBoy

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I can tell you didn't read through the thread where people already address with Sasuke. I don't expect you, so Ill just let you know that Ill quote myself once again.



Having the right speed still doesn't benefit the user to successfully dodge all the traps and patterns the puppet uses. Second Hiruko is NOT a spam bot lets read what the manga describes it then what "our eyes wants to view it like". Hiruko attacks are not spam. It is describe what it is (patterns):


This means they are meant to be dodge in a certain way. If Sasuke lacks the intel of understanding Sasori's pattern of booby traps will only result from him getting scratch.

Here:





Here is what I said concerning using Raiton attacks:



Your the first to bring out Chidori Blossom. That is indeed a percentage chance of hitting the core. If not then Sasuke is left open. Sasuke will not know about the core so its only by chance that the spikes so happen to aim at the heart here is why "seeing core through chakra is wrong":












Seeing chakra string means nothing as its the Iron Sand jutsu and speed of the attack is whats dangerous. Cutting the strings will be almost impossible with Sasori's fighting tactic in a 1v1 match. Sasori is not dumb enough to even stretch the strings to engage CQC. But hypothetically speaking:



Itachi fails to have similar principles considering he doesn't have lightening variants. He even failed to understood Sasukes booby trap and end up getting hurt from it [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
Your first response is that having the right speed doesn't allow... etc. Chiyo dodged the traps without aid. She never knew about it either. Sasuke has exceptional shuriken skill, exceptional -- stated as godlike -- speed, a sword to parry, etc. On the off chance one blade is still coming towards him while dodging, a simple swing of his sword deflects all of it. Unlike chiyo and sakura who couldn't rely on anything but fists, sasuke has a lot to rely on. Saying the traps can't effectively be dodged when a old woman did it seems a bit...

As I stated, He also has a sword.

The raiton shurkin and sword wouldn't simply punch a hole in hiruko and that's that. It would completely disable it. Especially the Metal cutting raiton shuriken which would split it in two. Hiruko would be useless like that. For that matter, concerning aim, like I also stated. The sharingan see's chakra and gives color to it. He's already spot a mass of chakra inside hiruko and aim for that. even if he doesn't hit the core, hiruko would still be disabled and sasori needs to exit and reassemble as he's now liable to death sitting inside that hunk of metal that's very susceptible to raiton. Let's not forget just . Sasuke would make the first swing on hiruko before it even sprung an attack. If it's not already destroyed by his undefendable raiton sword, Sasori already only has time for 1 trap before the next assault - And, no, a metal tail isn't blocking a Raiton sword which cut metal. The notion of Sasori springing all these traps and sasuke running out of tools relies on Sasori blocking an Unblockable attack from the onset without getting hiruko destroyed; Especially with hiruko's very low speed feats.

Why would sasuke be left out open after chidori blossom? It's sasori who'd be in the open, as he'd have no choice but to exit hiruko or get assaulted more with blossom. Like I stated previously, and will continue to state, the sharingan see's chakra. If sasuke see's that mass of chakra still there and his opponent continuing his assault, Sasuke would clearly know something is up. The mere fact sasuke see's the mass inside this exterior 'body' along with the fact that the entire exterior is made of wood and metal with no hint of chakra, sasuke would know something is up. For that matter, the sharingan has some what x-ray potential[ ][ ], therefore sasuke would already spot sasori in the puppet. In fact, based on these scans, sasuke would most likely see straight through hiruko and have a nice view of sasori - However clear it would be( Byakugan is different and gives different insight ). It's becoming even easier to just destroy the core simply because of sharingan.

Yes, Seeing the strings means a lot. Kankuro was able to spot a puppet body (based on how strings would pull it). In other words, Seeing sasori's move the strings right, would give you a heads up that the puppet is going to be pulled to the right. If you can figure what each string is for (easy feat for sasuke who was able to analyse deidara and danzo's tech) then you can essentially Know exactly what any puppet is going to do - Except when using IS attacks.
How would cutting strings be impossible? Lol. Sasori's fighting style is to simply use his string controlled puppet. The strings are attached to the puppet, they can easily be cut around the puppet. That's easily done with or . Magnetism won't even matter because sasuke can make a blade sharper than an ordinary sword on the fly. OH, and let's not forget that since these are chakra strings, the sharingan's pre-cog is in full swing on them. Therefore, sasuke can predict where the instead of where they are. Sasori will have no way of stopping sasuke from cutting his strings as sasuke would be aiming to cut them in a position they're not yet in. There's no hypothetically about it, Sasuke doesn't even need to get anywhere near CQC to do this, like I've just pointed out. As to your hypothetical point, when sasori's strings were cut, it gave kankuro enough time to attach his strings to sasori's, not sasori reattaching. That means, during that downtime, Sasori's wide open to chidori lance, chidori blossom, or even raiton Shuriken as jiton would be inactive for that period( Sasuke summons his shuriken from a scroll, so no, sasori wouldn't relieve him of any of his tools). At that point, since Sasuke already knows about the core -- either by seeing it with the sharingan, or by witnessing sasori re-assemble with that mass of chakra still strong at the center -- Sasuke would know exactly where to aim all his attacks. It doesn't even help sasori that his core is placed in the location of the heart which is the default location for chidori assassination... Even if it's unintentional, sasuke would destroy the core simply off his training...

In regards to itachi; It works out relatively the same due to the sharingan. Like I've stated, He'd be able to see through hiruko, see the lump of chakra(core), see the chakra strings, and predict sasori's movements. From there Itachi's speed and bushin feints is all it really takes to plunge a kunai through the core and kill sasori... The same way he essentially, canonically, died from a Kunai through core.
As to the booby trap, Don't forget that, not only was that a trap that itachi didn't expect(points for sasori there I suppose), but itachi was also suspended. what makes it worse is the fact that zetsu said he should have been able to avoid that attack if not for his morbid state. Either way, this isn't a sasori VS itachi thread.
 

Brother Numpsay

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Your first response is that having the right speed doesn't allow... etc. Chiyo dodged the traps without aid. She never knew about it either. Sasuke has exceptional shuriken skill, exceptional -- stated as godlike -- speed, a sword to parry, etc. On the off chance one blade is still coming towards him while dodging, a simple swing of his sword deflects all of it. Unlike chiyo and sakura who couldn't rely on anything but fists, sasuke has a lot to rely on. Saying the traps can't effectively be dodged when a old woman did it seems a bit...

As I stated, He also has a sword.
Actually Chiyo, puppet master, understood most of the patterns from the puppets traps so she knew 90-95% of it. [ ]<-- Stated here, but the rest of the context said "But..." (From the next page she explain they were some upgrades that are and and she explained what they were. She trusted her instinct and read through the pattern from the new upgrade given in Hiruko) Thus Sasori explained here [ ]

Stating that because she was old means nothing, shouldn't be overlooked looked from her skill [ ]

Sasuke's parry is not 100 percent guaranteed either as if not interpreting the patterns completely means he will get scratch. Much like how he couldn't completely interpret Killer Bee's Kenjutsu. [ ].

The raiton shurkin and sword wouldn't simply punch a hole in hiruko and that's that. It would completely disable it. Especially the Metal cutting raiton shuriken which would split it in two. Hiruko would be useless like that. For that matter, concerning aim, like I also stated. The sharingan see's chakra and gives color to it. He's already spot a mass of chakra inside hiruko and aim for that. even if he doesn't hit the core, hiruko would still be disabled and sasori needs to exit and reassemble as he's now liable to death sitting inside that hunk of metal that's very susceptible to raiton. Let's not forget just . Sasuke would make the first swing on hiruko before it even sprung an attack. If it's not already destroyed by his undefendable raiton sword, Sasori already only has time for 1 trap before the next assault - And, no, a metal tail isn't blocking a Raiton sword which cut metal. The notion of Sasori springing all these traps and sasuke running out of tools relies on Sasori blocking an Unblockable attack from the onset without getting hiruko destroyed; Especially with hiruko's very low speed feats.
-How exactly is Sasori/Hiruko be disabled when they do not feel pain nor are there bodies conductible to Raiton. -Sasuke can channel lightening only on one-two materiel, meaning only limited spots are damaging Hiruko, which leads to other spots that can sprung traps.
-Hiruko has displayed good reaction so even in CQC it can defeat it's weakness stated from Chiyo first 2 panels [ ]. The fact the he interpret a in coming weapon without looking means his reaction should not be underestimated [ ] [ ].

Why would sasuke be left out open after chidori blossom? It's sasori who'd be in the open, as he'd have no choice but to exit hiruko or get assaulted more with blossom. Like I stated previously, and will continue to state, the sharingan see's chakra. If sasuke see's that mass of chakra still there and his opponent continuing his assault, Sasuke would clearly know something is up. The mere fact sasuke see's the mass inside this exterior 'body' along with the fact that the entire exterior is made of wood and metal with no hint of chakra, sasuke would know something is up. For that matter, the sharingan has some what x-ray potential[ ][ ], therefore sasuke would already spot sasori in the puppet. In fact, based on these scans, sasuke would most likely see straight through hiruko and have a nice view of sasori - However clear it would be( Byakugan is different and gives different insight ). It's becoming even easier to just destroy the core simply because of sharingan.
1st. Kakashi picked that up because it was displayed happening in the previous page. Not that it matters has you already display proof of Sasuke doing it to himself and you could always use proof with the fight against Kabuto. The thing is your not getting what I quote to you. The quote explains that Human puppets have build in chakra in order to use chakra base attacks. The core of Sasori is nothing more then a core that manipulates the chakra stored in a human puppet. In order to manipulate chakra you still in something that counteracts as human flesh stated by Chiyo [ ].

You also have to remember that Sasori's body is Kinjutsu. Its the same principle as Kakuzu's case when Kakashi couldn't interpret Kakuzu displaying 5 hearts stored in him and made out of Jingou, even having the Sharingan used.

Yes, Seeing the strings means a lot. Kankuro was able to spot a puppet body (based on how strings would pull it). In other words, Seeing sasori's move the strings right, would give you a heads up that the puppet is going to be pulled to the right. If you can figure what each string is for (easy feat for sasuke who was able to analyse deidara and danzo's tech) then you can essentially Know exactly what any puppet is going to do - Except when using IS attacks.
How would cutting strings be impossible? Lol. Sasori's fighting style is to simply use his string controlled puppet. The strings are attached to the puppet, they can easily be cut around the puppet. That's easily done with or . Magnetism won't even matter because sasuke can make a blade sharper than an ordinary sword on the fly. OH, and let's not forget that since these are chakra strings, the sharingan's pre-cog is in full swing on them. Therefore, sasuke can predict where the instead of where they are. Sasori will have no way of stopping sasuke from cutting his strings as sasuke would be aiming to cut them in a position they're not yet in. There's no hypothetically about it, Sasuke doesn't even need to get anywhere near CQC to do this, like I've just pointed out. As to your hypothetical point, when sasori's strings were cut, it gave kankuro enough time to attach his strings to sasori's, not sasori reattaching. That means, during that downtime, Sasori's wide open to chidori lance, chidori blossom, or even raiton Shuriken as jiton would be inactive for that period( Sasuke summons his shuriken from a scroll, so no, sasori wouldn't relieve him of any of his tools). At that point, since Sasuke already knows about the core -- either by seeing it with the sharingan, or by witnessing sasori re-assemble with that mass of chakra still strong at the center -- Sasuke would know exactly where to aim all his attacks. It doesn't even help sasori that his core is placed in the location of the heart which is the default location for chidori assassination... Even if it's unintentional, sasuke would destroy the core simply off his training...
Good point but your neglecting the defensive argument I made concerning counter Sasukes arsenals making all the attempts useless when the 3rd Kazekage is pulled out. Its in the OP.

In regards to itachi; It works out relatively the same due to the sharingan. Like I've stated, He'd be able to see through hiruko, see the lump of chakra(core), see the chakra strings, and predict sasori's movements. From there Itachi's speed and bushin feints is all it really takes to plunge a kunai through the core and kill sasori... The same way he essentially, canonically, died from a Kunai through core.
As to the booby trap, Don't forget that, not only was that a trap that itachi didn't expect(points for sasori there I suppose), but itachi was also suspended. what makes it worse is the fact that zetsu said he should have been able to avoid that attack if not for his morbid state. Either way, this isn't a sasori VS itachi thread.
Good/Thank You, I don't need to write anything out from that match up, thanks for stating this and keeping it on topic =).
 
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