Sarutobi vs Jiraiya
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Selendrile
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Sasuke4115
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ive made this thread before maybe u can get answers from here:
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Selendrile
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I've also made the thread, before both of you. U_U
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Itachi Namikaze
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I would go with Jiraiya. Sage mode is the deal breaker here. Once he is in that he is much faster and stronger than Hiruzen and he has way more summons and far stronger summons.
They both have earth element and fire element from what we have seen, so on elemental attacks no one has the advantage.
Intelligence would go to Hiruzen. (Even though he thought he stopped Oro's IWR xD)
Chakra levels would probably go to Jiraiya though.
Weapons would go to Hiruzen with Enma transformed.
Speed and strength go to Jiraiya.
Seals - ? This one is up in the air. Jiraiya has shown a lot of knowledge about sealing jutsu and Hiruzen has shown us Minato's own DRS.
So on the whole I would take Jiraiya. Especially if you didn't restrict the frogs genjutsu. If there were no restrictions then I think the best Hiruzen could do is a tie.
They both have earth element and fire element from what we have seen, so on elemental attacks no one has the advantage.
Intelligence would go to Hiruzen. (Even though he thought he stopped Oro's IWR xD)
Chakra levels would probably go to Jiraiya though.
Weapons would go to Hiruzen with Enma transformed.
Speed and strength go to Jiraiya.
Seals - ? This one is up in the air. Jiraiya has shown a lot of knowledge about sealing jutsu and Hiruzen has shown us Minato's own DRS.
So on the whole I would take Jiraiya. Especially if you didn't restrict the frogs genjutsu. If there were no restrictions then I think the best Hiruzen could do is a tie.
Selendrile
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Itachi Namikaze
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You realize we haven't seen Hiruzen in his prime?
The youngest we have seen him is when he became Hokage, and I hope that wasn't his prime, because there were 7 Konoha ninjas being followed by 20 ninjas from the Kinkaku and Ginkaku force. Not Kin and Gin themselves, but renegade ninjas calling themselves that.
So 7 vs. 20, and the Konoha ninjas were scared and didn't want to ambush them, they wanted to run away. Now let's think about this, one of those 7 was the current Hokage, one was the future Hokage(that same day), and another was the quasi-6th Hokage and the leader of the ANBU. The rest were teammates and ther high level ninjas.
So my opinion of Hiruzen went greatly down because of that, and Tobirama as well. If two Hokages and one obviously Kage level ninja + 4 more other jounin teammates can't take down 20 ninjas who followed Kin&Gin then I don't really think much of their abilities.
Well, if Tobirama believed the only way to escape was to delay them himself, then couldn't it be argued that they were considerably strong shinobi? We also have to remember that both Hashirama and Tobirama were proclaimed the strongest ninjas of their time:
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Most of the fame, from what we've seen, probably lies with Hashirama. But Tobirama was apparently powerful enough to let Hashirama retire early so we shouldn't underestimate him
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DigitalMonster
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Prime Hizuren doesn't have any feats, so I'll just assume he has more stamina, speed and is physically stronger.
Even with his physical stats heightened, I don't think he can take on Jiraiya. Despite his title, he has few Ninjutsu compared to Jiraiya and very few of them would actually trouble Jiraiya. Taijutsu would work best here, due to Hizuren's skill and his staff.
Unfortunately, he still has no answer to Jiraiya's Doton: Yomi Numa.
Even with his physical stats heightened, I don't think he can take on Jiraiya. Despite his title, he has few Ninjutsu compared to Jiraiya and very few of them would actually trouble Jiraiya. Taijutsu would work best here, due to Hizuren's skill and his staff.
Unfortunately, he still has no answer to Jiraiya's Doton: Yomi Numa.
Itachi Namikaze
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But see that is the thing, if what else can we do other than gauge him and Hiruzen lower because of this?
So by hype we have the strongest kage of his time(I don't count what Iruka said as he knows literally nothing about any of the other Hokages and no one else in the manga has made any statement saying that Hiruzen was the strongest Hokage, while there have been numerous times where Minato or Hashirama is praised by several different people as being unsurpassable)., plus the second hokage, plus Danzo, plus 4 jounin who are probably at least somewhere in the range of Danzo considering they are all teammates and all became important in the village and were all part of the force Hiruzen had specially to fight the 9-tails. Now I am making a few assumptions about the strength of the enemy ninjas, but they aren't crazy assumptions.
Here is what we know; they were followers of Kin and Gin, there were 20 of them, they weren't affiliated with any village at the time (Kin and Gin were criminals), they didn't get brought back as Edos (so none were unique), and they were never named nor mentioned.
Because of all that stuff I think that the Konoha team should have been able to beat them. It is a little less than 3:1 odds. Considering that you have Hiruzen and Tobirama and Danzo and four other skilled jounin I am forced to downgrade them all in my opinion.
With a more hearty chakra reserve he could effectively and strategically use Kage Bunshins when needed. It's not enough to say that he could beat Jiraiya but it's still something to put into consideration
For a shinobi to be known as "The Professor" all throughout the shinobi world I doubt Hiruzen only had a few techniques
CoPy nInJa DaMOn
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you are nuts!
Hiruzen is god of shinobi and in his prime is said to be the strongest Among all kages
I definitely see where you're coming from
Well, just for the sake of argument then we could also think of it as Tobirama sacrificing himself for the next generation. Even if Hiruzen, Danzo, and the rest could have taken down the shinobi forces, it's not likely Tobirama would have let them. It's doubtful that Tobirama would willingly put his team in danger if there was even a sliver of a chance that they could die no matter the odds. I mean, Kakashi would never lead Team 7 into a dangerous battle if he had the option of retreating or an alternative, right? Hiruzen volunteered to stay back and fight but Tobirama wouldn't have it. Instead he ordered them to go back and passed the seat of Hokage onto Hiruzen, since in the bigger scheme of things it'd be best for the village that way in the long run. The previous generation making way for the next generation has been a recurring theme in the story so, in a way, this could have been another example of that
Itachi Namikaze
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Well I can also see that but it still diminishes them in my eyes. Also Kakashi has put Naruto and Sakura into more than life threatening situations. Remember when he had Naruto, Sakura, and Shikamaru chase after the sand trio and Sasuke?
They were being followed by sound ninja and were saved by Asuma otherwise they would surely have died. Sakura almost did die, and Sasuke couldn't even move. That was just an example, but I also get where you are coming from, but I can't get over the fact that they were scared to fight.
Kakashi Fang
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Jiraiya by far IMO.
Hiruzen is overrated to the fullest, people know nothing of his prime but they think he would defeat the likes of Itachi and Jiraiya just because he would be younger and have more chakra than his 71 year old self.
Hiruzen is pitiful at ninjutsu, Konoharmaru can perform most of them or maybe a young Sasuke.
Hiruzen is overrated to the fullest, people know nothing of his prime but they think he would defeat the likes of Itachi and Jiraiya just because he would be younger and have more chakra than his 71 year old self.
Hiruzen is pitiful at ninjutsu, Konoharmaru can perform most of them or maybe a young Sasuke.
jayhayallday
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That's right, but Sasuke ran off on his own and against the sand trio (Gaara loosing control in this case) he surely would have been killed. So in that particular position Kakashi was face with either: let Sasuke go alone and probably get killed (which is tantamount to letting Sasuke die), or have Naruto, Sakura, and Shikamaru back him up as reinforcements.
Regardless, it was a dangerous mission (A-rank as claimed by Kakashi) but it'd have been better than letting Sasuke die alone. If it hadn't been for Sasuke then Kakashi would never had have them chase the sand trio