Sakura is just going to punch her right off the bat without Hinata parrying or dodging? Yes.. Sakura is fast but i really don't know how that factors into cqc where Sakura up until Madara has always been shown to charge in with a straight fist? And she isn't ripping anyone's arms off... she doesn't have the physical strength to do that or did she show any extraordinary strength feats in the entire manga you think i possibly missed?
How exactly can she parry a punch from Sakura and even close her chakra point at the same time? To do that she'd have to be physically stronger and faster several times, and we both know she isn't.
CES amplifies all forms of physical strength, as seen when Tsunade was able to lift and swing Gamabunta's sword or when Sakura did this to Sasori [
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Just face it already, this isn't a fight Hinata can win. I'm not even gonna mention Katsuyu because this is already unfair as it is, adding her would turn it into the biggest stomp ever.
Taijutsu feat of Sakura's that surpasses Hinata's?
Scan of her ever doing this?
She's faster, but Hinata's reaction speed is better, as shown in 614 direct comparison. Add her reflexes with using 64 Palms and in The Last, and even more so.
A martial artists overwhelming another martial artists is harder than a martial artists overwhelming a noob off the street.
1. All of her fights in Shippuuden basically. Her taijutsu might not be as 'stylish' but it is sure as hell more effective.
2. See above
3. Ugh no, Hinata has no reaction feats at all.
4. If the noob can destroy half the city with one strike, the martial artist would not even try to attack him.
Nah, she avoided, parried, and countered attacks from the same puppets that blitzed Hiashi, one even point blank behind her when she wasn't even using Byakugan.
Now give me Sakura taijutsu feats :elmo:
that puts her on a level where Sakura cannot punch her
Which still required more skill than what Sakura pulled off in terms of taijutsu, which you still fail to give a feat for.
That's still good enough to knock Hinata out, it's not like she has any reaction feats that makes her able to move out of the way faster than Sakura can just punch the floor below her
Hinata's refelexes include reacting to the spike Sakura failed to do so, without Byakugan mind you.
Protecting Neji from an attack he failed to defend against.
Reacting to puppets that blitzed Hiashi.
64 Palms alone is a great reflex feat for her, already explained:
Notice what Kakashi says. REGARDLESS of having penetrative vision, to be able to hit the Chakra Points in the heat of battle against non-static opponents is something this man finds amazing, again, even ignoring the ability to see the points. And this is Kakashi simply speaking of the Gentle Fist itself, not even the 64 Palms, a combo attack that pushes the Gentle Fist to its limit.
With 64 Palms, Hinata needs to react, aim, and move her body and arms fast enough to align the tiny chakra points at the edge of her fingers which are as small as the tip of a needle with the various equally tiny chakra points on an opponents body 64 times, all while maneuvering around in the heat of battle in a manner and speed so as to prevent her opponent from escaping her combo attack.
Except Hinata can react to that, as I proved above, so nah.
Underline:How high you can jump does not mean you are fast enough to do so, all genin are able to do this nor does Hinata have feats that showcase her being able to move out of the way faster than Sakura can just punch the ground below her.
Can Sakura even aim though? :lol She threw them on the ground against people who were not attempting to fight her and were in fact fighting among each other
Hinata knocked back spike that was heading for her head, w/o Byakugan mind you.
because Hinata can make one air palm at a time and can't block more than one
I've already wiped the floor with this statement, Sakura can simply increase the chakra in her fist to increase the damage, she dosen't need to jump to wipe out Hinata.
@bold: Based on? I want to see where Hinata has ever done anything that would imply she has the physical capability to parry one of Sakura's punches. The logic you are using doesn't even make sense. Because she's a linear puncher her attack gets parried by Hinata who can "empoly complex movements"? Parrying is only possible if you are fast enough and strong enough. You haven't shown the former, and the latter is definitely false. Hinata isn't blocking or making any physical contact with Sakura's strikes without dying. Base Raikage (3rd and 4th) is also a linear striker are you going to say that she parries his punch too?
What? How does movement speed factor in CQC? That should be pretty obvious. To do anything you have to move. The faster you move, the better. Idk why you are saying that you have to be far faster than your opponent for it to matter because that's obviously false. Taijutsu capability is speed and skill. Them not being shown in CQC doesn't hinder anyone's argument nor does anyone being shown to fight with a traditional style to automatically put them at the top of the pyramid. By this logic, Beginning of Part 1 Neji beats Tsunade because Tsunade's style isn't as complex.
Underlined is obviously false. There is no misconception here. CES enhances strength. Not striking strength. Strength. All strength is enhanced. All of Tsunade's physical feats come from CES, not this natural strength people keep on claiming she has. Blatantly stated in DB 2.
And this isn't taking into account the fact Adult Sakura doesn't need to make contact to strike targets as shown in the gif I posted above, or the fact that ground pounds create shockwaves also capable of killing Hinata. This isn't a hand to hand traditional brawl so idk why people keep acting like it is.
You continually make it seem like Sakura's arm can't be parried and i'm not sure why. Sakura is neither Tsunade nor Raikage who have displayed extraordinary physical strength. Parrying them would be difficult but nothing suggests Sakura is on their level physically. I'm aware you don't like the comparison but Hinata was able to parry Neji who was faster and stronger than her... Sakura is stronger but not to a level where her arm can't be parried and she has no notable striking speed feats either.
But Tsunade is obviously far faster and stronger than p1 Neji. He wouldn't stand a chance. Sakura vs Hinata is a different scenario and this is why i brought about the previous comparison of faster characters losing in hand to hand against characters slower than them.
It is a misconception though. CES enhances strength.. true. But it isn't what they do as every ninja can do that as confirmed in Db1. What you are referring to from Db2 has a name in Db3 and it is not CES... its called Cherry blossom impact. Tsunade is naturally strong as evidenced by her stat.
I'm thinking more manga Sakura and Hinata not their adult versions... didn't read the novels nor pay attention to their battle stuff in the movies and byakugan gives foresight to the ground punching by seeing the chakra though. She either jumps out or attempts to halt her using air palm?
How exactly can she parry a punch from Sakura and even close her chakra point at the same time? To do that she'd have to be physically stronger and faster several times, and we both know she isn't.
CES amplifies all forms of physical strength, as seen when Tsunade was able to lift and swing Gamabunta's sword or when Sakura did this to Sasori [
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Just face it already, this isn't a fight Hinata can win. I'm not even gonna mention Katsuyu because this is already unfair as it is, adding her would turn it into the biggest stomp ever.
Accumulating chakra and forming seals to activate a jutsu!
The physical and mental energies from 130 million body cells, that is, chakra, are accumulated, and by performing seals, this energy is converted into a jutsu. If this sequence is performed impeccably, the jutsu is activated.
To activate jutsu other than taijutsu, basic chakra conversion is needed.
To put it plainly, chakra is what fuels a jutsu. The mental and physical energies of a shinobi’s body are joined together into stamina, which is internally converted into chakra, the energy source for a jutsu’s activation. The efficiency of this conversion is influenced by the user’s skill. Being able to efficiently convert stamina means a possibility to cast an even larger number of jutsu. In addition, chakra can be used to temporarily trigger some physical abilities. Thanks to this, shinobi can perform superhuman physical feats.
Raikage's lightning chakra mode enhances his physical strength but he still won't be able to produce the same dc Tsunade and Sakura do and he has bijuu level chakra. And Sasori was a puppet how much do you think a puppet would weigh? Is there any other Sakura strength feat that would at least prove me wrong?
You continually make it seem like Sakura's arm can't be parried and i'm not sure why. Sakura is neither Tsunade nor Raikage who have displayed extraordinary physical strength. Parrying them would be difficult but nothing suggests Sakura is on their level physically. I'm aware you don't like the comparison but Hinata was able to parry Neji who was faster and stronger than her... Sakura is stronger but not to a level where her arm can't be parried and she has no notable striking speed feats either.
But Tsunade is obviously far faster and stronger than p1 Neji. He wouldn't stand a chance. Sakura vs Hinata is a different scenario and this is why i brought about the previous comparison of faster characters losing in hand to hand against characters slower than them.
It is a misconception though. CES enhances strength.. true. But it isn't what they do as every ninja can do that as confirmed in Db1. What you are referring to from Db2 has a name in Db3 and it is not CES... its called Cherry blossom impact. Tsunade is naturally strong as evidenced by her stat.
I'm thinking more manga Sakura and Hinata not their adult versions... didn't read the novels nor pay attention to their battle stuff in the movies and byakugan gives foresight to the ground punching by seeing the chakra though. She either jumps out or attempts to halt her using air palm?
I don't like that comparison because it makes no sense. The gap between Neji and Hinata's physical power is obviously not as large as the gap between Sakura and Hinata. Everything that is striked out is false.
Databook 2
Konoha Thousand Leaves Collection #24
It would seem Tsunade's "outrageous strength" completely ignores the laws of nature!! The challenge to common sense that is her power is due in no small part to her artful chakra control and fine-tuning. To give things a name, by instantly collecting chakra into her fist and fingers, she obtains a power of destruction bodily strength alone cannot achieve.
Caption
-Here's to a painful and bitter end! Such is Tsunade-hime's insane, "Legendary", power!!
Picture comments
-One finger, and Naruto cannot close in on her. And she can handle Gamabunta's huge dosu** with absurd ease...?!
-The kind of might that opens craters into the ground in one blow!!
Tsunade's natural strength being something of note is fanfiction. All her extraordinary feats are possible because she mastered CES. Sakura mastered it as well, ergo all those feats are transferrable. Cherry Blossom Impact is CES. That includes the finger feat and lifting Gamabunta's sword, meaning CES enhances all forms of strength, not just striking power. Gai has a 5 as well yet you don't see him lifting Bijuu sized blades with ease or creating craters with a finger.
Yeah, Tsunade>>Neji in speed and strength, yet your logic doesn't account for that. Which is why buzz words like linear and complex movements aren't viable as an argument. Which is why we have to actually look at feats.
Then let's just talk about Manga Sakura and Manga Hinata. You'll have to show speed feats that let her evade the blast nor does Sakura need to jump. Byakugan only lets her know she's gathering chakra to her fist, which is done no matter what attack she uses so that doesn't tip Hinata off. The damage won't be as large but it'll be far larger than what she did in the beginning of Part 1 and that's enough. That and Hinata's only good CQC feat comes from The Last, so Sakura destroys her.
Finding and taking advantage of opening in Neji's taijutsu
Using 64 Palms, which requires great skill in reflexes, precision, and speed
Fought off puppets that blitzed Hiashi w/o herByakugan.
614 - Reacted to same spike Sakura failed to dodge.
4. If the noob can destroy half the city with one strike, the martial artist would not even try to attack him.
Making posts like this is really tedious so I'll straight to the point:
1-Your first mistake is comparing puppets that ganged up on Hiashi to a single shinobi who shitted on said puppets + plus have strength that cannot be paried.
2-Your second mistake is actually thinking that the quality of Hamura chakra she gained is even comparable to getting the kyuubi's cloak, and especially rikudo chakra for that matter, because Naruto and Sasuke both received half of his power while what Hinata has is absolutely featless.
3-Your third mistake is "Can Sakura even aim" yes and she has better feats at that than Hinata:
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Every qualified genin can aim, this goes to show how clouded your eyes are.
All Sakura needs to do is drop the bombs near Hinata in cqc And just jump out before Hinata could know what hit her.
4-Your fourth mistake is forgetting that if Hinata jumps out of the way from the sleep gas, Sakura would just chase her like she did to the juubi clone and end her right there.
5-Your fifth mistake is saying that Sakura didn't blitz the juubi clones, when she completely jumped over many of them at high speed, the same speed of the juubi clone that was sent flying, which knocked off all the clones in its way and non of the clones were able to react to said Juubi clone, and those clones are comparable to Hinata.
6-Your sixth mistake is thinking that Sakura needs to jump in the air that high to achieve that punch, when all she needs is just a boost in speed with she can achieve by jumping forward or even backwards since the shockwave would bury Hinata anyway
There's more but most of it would be just like kicking a dead horse so I guess this is enough.
I don't like that comparison because it makes no sense. The gap between Neji and Hinata's physical power is obviously not as large as the gap between Sakura and Hinata. Everything that is striked out is false.
Tsunade's natural strength being something of note is fanfiction. All her extraordinary feats are possible because she mastered CES. Sakura mastered it as well, ergo all those feats are transferrable. Cherry Blossom Impact is CES. That includes the finger feat and lifting Gamabunta's sword, meaning CES enhances all forms of strength, not just striking power. Gai has a 5 as well yet you don't see him lifting Bijuu sized blades with ease or creating craters with a finger.
Yeah, Tsunade>>Neji in speed and strength, yet your logic doesn't account for that. Which is why buzz words like linear and complex movements aren't viable as an argument. Which is why we have to actually look at feats.
Then let's just talk about Manga Sakura and Manga Hinata. You'll have to show speed feats that let her evade the blast nor does Sakura need to jump. Byakugan only lets her know she's gathering chakra to her fist, which is done no matter what attack she uses so that doesn't tip Hinata off. The damage won't be as large but it'll be far larger than what she did in the beginning of Part 1 and that's enough. That and Hinata's only good CQC feat comes from The Last, so Sakura destroys her.
But the gap between Sakura and Hinata isn't as large as you make it seem though. That Db quote states chakra is collected in her fists and fingers not muscles which would play the major part in actual enhancement of strength. More or less the same thing is repeated in Sakura's Cherry blossom entry but that goes on to state it isn't superhuman strength.
Cherry blossom impact isn't CES. CBI is an adaptation of medical ninjutsu [
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] and chakra enhancement of strength isn't a medical technique when Db1 confirms all Shinobi are capable of doing it.
Gai can't create craters with a finger because he isn't concentrating chakra in his fingers and when it comes to lifting, Jirobo has also lifted a sizable chunk of Earth with strength alone and i don't think we can claim he does what Tsunade/Sakura does?
Yeah but bringing two characters from different ends of the age bracket for comparison is a little too much.. Comparison between characters in a similar bracket with similar experiences is what i'm comparing with considering we have no cqc feats from Hinata and Sakura.
I was referring to Hinata jumping and the db states especially in Sakura's case that Chakra of the greatest intensity is collected in the fists. It would be different from her other attacks no?
Kabuto said he isn't very good at taijutsu, but he's still a jounin and is said to be on Kakashi's level which makes Hinata's taijutsu look like garbage in comparison.:lol
2-Your second mistake is actually thinking that the quality of Hamura chakra she gained is even comparable to getting the kyuubi's cloak, and especially rikudo chakra for that matter
Rikudo Chakra is better in quality than Bijuu Chakra wtf :lol And are you seriously claiming Hamura's chakra isn't Rikudo Chakra? Please tell me I'm just misunderstanding this.
because Naruto and Sasuke both received half of his power while what Hinata has is absolutely featless.
Nope. Hinata can combine it with her techs, so we know she can enhance the power of the techs.
Hinata had enough Rikudo Chakra to fill Naruto up and allow him to enter KCM.
KCM Naruto > V1 Bijuu Cloak.
Meaning the quality is better and the amount received is greater. And if she can combine it with the complex TLF, she can combine it with the comparatively mundane Air Palm.
3-Your third mistake is "Can Sakura even aim" yes and she has better feats at that than Hinata:
Byakugan would allow Hinata to see the sleep powder and jump out of the way,.
4-Your fourth mistake is forgetting that if Hinata jumps out of the way from the sleep gas, Sakura would just chase her like she did to the juubi clone and end her right there.
You just said Sakura would jump away from the smoke of the sleeping gas above. Now you're saying she will chase Hinata. How is she doing both :lol
And if she did do so, Hinata has the better taijutsu and reflexes, so Sakura still isn't landing a hit if she chased after her.
5-Your fifth mistake is saying that Sakura didn't blitz the juubi clones, when she completely jumped over many of them at high speed, the same speed of the juubi clone that was sent flying, which knocked off all the clones in its way and non of the clones, were able to react to said Juubi clone.
Kabuto said he isn't very good at taijutsu, but he's still a jounin and is said to be on Kakashi's level which makes Hinata's taijutsu look like garbage in comparison.:lol
lol where tf is this fanfiction of Kabuto being on par with Kakashi in taijutsu coming from?
And this point is irrelevant. Even if P1 Kabuto > P2 Hinata in taijutsu, the bottom line is that Kabuto with his normal strength parried Tsunade's CES, so CES can be parried by normal human taijutsu, let alone Gentle Fist.
But the gap between Sakura and Hinata isn't as large as you make it seem though. That Db quote states chakra is collected in her fists and fingers not muscles which would play the major part in actual enhancement of strength. More or less the same thing is repeated in Sakura's Cherry blossom entry but that goes on to state it isn't superhuman strength.
Cherry blossom impact isn't CES. CBI is an adaptation of medical ninjutsu [
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] and chakra enhancement of strength isn't a medical technique when Db1 confirms all Shinobi are capable of doing it.
Gai can't create craters with a finger because he isn't concentrating chakra in his fingers and when it comes to lifting, Jirobo has also lifted a sizable chunk of Earth with strength alone and i don't think we can claim he does what Tsunade/Sakura does?
Yeah but bringing two characters from different ends of the age bracket for comparison is a little too much.. Comparison between characters in a similar bracket with similar experiences is what i'm comparing with considering we have no cqc feats from Hinata and Sakura.
I was referring to Hinata jumping and the db states especially in Sakura's case that Chakra of the greatest intensity is collected in the fists. It would be different from her other attacks no?
Semantics. What Sakura, Tsunade and every other Ninja does to enhance their strength is the same. They gather chakra in the area they want to enhance. The only difference is, Sakura and Tsunade are master medical Ninja thus the extent they can perform this is far beyond that of other shinobi.
Databook 2 blatantly states that Tsunade's ability to gather chakra into her fists and fingers is why she is capable of lifting Gamabunta's blade. Sakura's ability is the same as Tsunade's, stated in the Manga, shown in the Manga,
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It would seem Tsunade's "outrageous strength" completely ignores the laws of nature!! The challenge to common sense that is her power is due in no small part to her artful chakra control and fine-tuning. To give things a name, by instantly collecting chakra into her fist and fingers, she obtains a power of destruction bodily strength alone cannot achieve.
So either you attempt to argue that Sakura isn't using Tsunade's ability or you concede to the fact that Tsunade's ability is what lets her lift the Dosu, thus Sakura can do the same, thus CES (or whatever you want to call it because semantics aren't important) enhances all forms of strength, not just striking. So if Hinata tries to block or parry Sakura's strike, she dies.
And you shouldn't be taking the fingers and fists thing literally considering Tsunade's kicks can break Susanoo and create large craters, meaning it's more than just channeling chakra to the fist and fingers.
Bold is exactly why your logic doesn't work. You said Hinata has the advantage because 'Sakura is a linear fighter and Hinata's style is more complex'. Yet if I try to say that for Neji and Tsunade, I'd be wrong. Meaning you have to switch up your logic. Nothing is wrong with the comparison. Your reason for why Hinata can do what you are claiming just doesn't hold up. If the logic can't be universally applied to all scenarios no matter the variables then the logic is flawed somewhere.
No, it wouldn't, because that is how all her strikes work. Chakra is gathered and released. She doesn't gather more chakra just when she jumps, and less when she doesn't. That wouldn't make any sense. It'd make more sense to do the inverse.
Ok, but there are feats, are these two attacks on the same scale? Nope, because the 2nd one had more chakra imbued which resulted in bigger crater. Unless these two are equal in destruction and power because you think Sakura can't increase its potency?
