Sakura(Full Power) vs Kakashi(one sharingan hidan arc)

[NarutoX28]

Are you trolling?

I'm not. I'm wondering what issue you have with that idea.

There's a completely logical explanation why Tsunade managed to blitz by the Susano'o clones while Raikage couldn't, but the mere fact that Raikage was tagged implies that these Susano'o clones were rather quick for him. Tsunade managed to strike one of these Susano'o clones without any reaction surpasses anything that Kakashi has ever done in the manga prior to the War Arc.

 

[ToshiZO]

I'm not. I'm wondering what issue you have with that idea.

There's a completely logical explanation why Tsunade managed to blitz by the Susano'o clones while Raikage couldn't, but the mere fact that Raikage was tagged implies that these Susano'o clones were rather quick for him. Tsunade managed to strike one of these Susano'o clones without any reaction surpasses anything that Kakashi has ever done in the manga prior to the War Arc.

What I was saying is under the same circumstances Tsunade did obviously.

As for the latter, you are kidding yourself if you think that. (The whole prior to the War Arc is the biggest cop out abused on these forums, Kakashi didn't go SSJ right when the war started, he got faster sure that's possible with MS improvement, but hardly worlds apart from before the war started).

 

[NarutoX28]

What I was saying is under the same circumstances Tsunade did obviously.

As for the latter, you are kidding yourself if you think that. (The whole prior to the War Arc is the biggest cop out abused on these forums, Kakashi didn't go SSJ right when the war started, he got faster sure that's possible with MS improvement, but hardly worlds apart from before the war started).

Through feats he certainly has.

He went from being below SM Jiraiya to competing with V2 Jin which outstrip each of the Paths physically, the same beings that effortlessly reacted to SM Jiraiya's Taijutsu and also managed to compete with Obito who could trash KCM Naruto in a single panel. He improved significantly I would say.

 

[ToshiZO]

Through feats he certainly has.

He went from being below SM Jiraiya to competing with V2 Jin which outstrip each of the Paths physically, the same beings that effortlessly reacted to SM Jiraiya's Taijutsu and also managed to compete with Obito who could trash KCM Naruto in a single panel. He improved significantly I would say.

Where was he below SM Jiraiya?

Who says he couldn't do those things before the war? He

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. Tendo pain was capable of

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, and even outran it at

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.

He competed with Obito because his reaction speed has always been top notch.


Itachi gained new speed feats as an Edo, but it doesn't mean he got faster. He was never tested to that extent.

 

[NarutoX28]

Where was he below SM Jiraiya?

Who says he couldn't do those things before the war? He

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. Tendo pain was capable of

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, and even outran it at

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.

Kakashi fought Tendo when he was busy distributing chakra to all 6 Paths whereas KN6 Naruto competed with a Tendo where all of Nagato's chakra was distributed towards Deva Path. Deva Path w/ all of Nagato's Chakra is far superior to Deva Path w/ a portion of Nagato's Chakra which is made clear when he attempted to kill Kakashi yet couldn't muster any ST strong enough to do so whereas a fully charged Tendo could use CST. The different is incredible, so Kakashi's performance against Tendo isn't necessarily an indicator of whether or not he could physically compete with SM Jiraiya. SM Jiraiya could actually compete and defeat 1 of the Paths in Taijutsu, but Kakashi could not which is evident when he resorted to Taijutsu and was tagged in mere seconds.

That scan at all doesn't prove that he could react to KN6 Naruto. All he could do was raise his arm and activate something that was instantaneous in the time it took for KN6 Naruto to dash 10m towards him. He was inferior and could only outpace KN6 Naruto's footspeed.

He competed with Obito because his reaction speed has always been top notch.

He couldn't even defeat a Weakened Taka Sasuke through mere Taijutsu. His reflexes have been top-notch, but he's improved significantly due to War Arc Scaling. If Kakashi's able to use Kamui multiple times against Obito despite being exhausted from fighting difficult battles prior to that, what stops him from improving physically as well?

Itachi gained new speed feats as an Edo, but it doesn't mean he got faster. He was never tested to that extent.

It does and it aligns perfectly to what Zetsu was saying about Itachi's speed.

 

[ToshiZO]

Kakashi fought Tendo when he was busy distributing chakra to all 6 Paths whereas KN6 Naruto competed with a Tendo where all of Nagato's chakra was distributed towards Deva Path. Deva Path w/ all of Nagato's Chakra is far superior to Deva Path w/ a portion of Nagato's Chakra which is made clear when he attempted to kill Kakashi yet couldn't muster any ST strong enough to do so whereas a fully charged Tendo could use CST. The different is incredible, so Kakashi's performance against Tendo isn't necessarily an indicator of whether or not he could physically compete with SM Jiraiya. SM Jiraiya could actually compete and defeat 1 of the Paths in Taijutsu, but Kakashi could not which is evident when he resorted to Taijutsu and was tagged in mere seconds.

Nor does anything indicate SM Jiraiya was superior.

That scan at all doesn't prove that he could react to KN6 Naruto. All he could do was raise his arm and activate something that was instantaneous in the time it took for KN6 Naruto to dash 10m towards him. He was inferior and could only outpace KN6 Naruto's footspeed.

Lol what? He literally reacted to him, not just mentally, he physically turned around and used an attack. Outpacing KN6 footspeed alone is impressive.

Anyhow even with these taken into account, keeping up with V2 jins is nothing too surprising.

He couldn't even defeat a Weakened Taka Sasuke through mere Taijutsu. His reflexes have been top-notch, but he's improved significantly due to War Arc Scaling. If Kakashi's able to use Kamui multiple times against Obito despite being exhausted from fighting difficult battles prior to that, what stops him from improving physically as well?

What in the world are you talking about? All he did against Sasuke was come out of nowhere to stop

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. Then Sasuke proceeded to attack him, which resulted in

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a couple meters.

And Sasuke was weakened but Kakashi didn't even need the Sharingan to produce those feats above.

After that Kakashi reacted to Sasuke's susanoo arrows by activating the MS and warping them away mid flight. Only further showing his reactions. Those were the only instances shown on panel.

It does and it aligns perfectly to what Zetsu was saying about Itachi's speed.

Which was? That makes less sense if anything, those Edo's were supposed to be weaker than the originals.

 

[NarutoX28]

Nor does anything indicate SM Jiraiya was superior.

It refutes your idea of Kakashi being superior through competing with Tendo (which never happened).

The last sentence should indicate it. Kakashi couldn't compete with Deva Path through Taijutsu whereas SM Jiraiya can smack each of the Paths 1v1. We witnessed this through his debut where a Path attempted to speed-blitz Jiraiya only to get his face kicked in and have his eyesight rendered useless as a result.

Lol what? He literally reacted to him, not just mentally, he physically turned around and used an attack. Outpacing KN6 footspeed alone is impressive.

Not really when Kakashi was within the V2 Jin's speed tier, the same beings who without Bijuu Chakra could pressure KCM Naruto to the point where KCM Naruto couldn't even speak because of his speed.

Anyhow even with these taken into account, keeping up with V2 jins is nothing too surprising.

Base Jin were giving KCM Naruto a rough time speed-wise to the point where he couldn't even speak yet V2 Jins aren't anything too impressive?

Please explain further.

What in the world are you talking about? All he did against Sasuke was come out of nowhere to stop

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. Then Sasuke proceeded to attack him, which resulted in

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a couple meters.

So Kakashi simply didn't have the speed needed to deliver a clean blow on Sasuke despite creating an opening. You honestly think War Arc Kakashi was physically on par with Obito that could trash KCM Naruto is only within Pre-War Arc Kakashi's speed tier? Doesn't seem to make sense honestly.

And Sasuke was weakened but Kakashi didn't even need the Sharingan to produce those feats above.

And Sasuke hardly needed his eyesight to easily block his attack. In that scenario, Sharingan had nothing to do with Kakashi's ability to strike Sasuke, so that point is moot.

After that Kakashi reacted to Sasuke's susanoo arrows by activating the MS and warping them away mid flight. Only further showing his reactions. Those were the only instances shown on panel.

Which doesn't give me an indication of his reflexes at all.

Which was? That makes less sense if anything, those Edo's were supposed to be weaker than the originals.

Zetsu stated that Itachi should've been much faster than how he performed against Sasuke. The Edos were roughly close to their full strength, so Edo Itachi being slightly inferior to Healthy Itachi doesn't at all imply that Edo Itachi = Sick Itachi when Healthy Itachi was much faster than Sick Itachi whereas Edo Itachi rivals Healthy Itachi.

 

[Dannie]

Kakashi wins while reading Make Out Paradise

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[ToshiZO]

It refutes your idea of Kakashi being superior through competing with Tendo (which never happened).

The last sentence should indicate it. Kakashi couldn't compete with Deva Path through Taijutsu whereas SM Jiraiya can smack each of the Paths 1v1. We witnessed this through his debut where a Path attempted to speed-blitz Jiraiya only to get his face kicked in and have his eyesight rendered useless as a result.



Not really when Kakashi was within the V2 Jin's speed tier, the same beings who without Bijuu Chakra could pressure KCM Naruto to the point where KCM Naruto couldn't even speak because of his speed.



Base Jin were giving KCM Naruto a rough time speed-wise to the point where he couldn't even speak yet V2 Jins aren't anything too impressive?

Please explain further.



So Kakashi simply didn't have the speed needed to deliver a clean blow on Sasuke despite creating an opening. You honestly think War Arc Kakashi was physically on par with Obito that could trash KCM Naruto is only within Pre-War Arc Kakashi's speed tier? Doesn't seem to make sense honestly.



And Sasuke hardly needed his eyesight to easily block his attack. In that scenario, Sharingan had nothing to do with Kakashi's ability to strike Sasuke, so that point is moot.



Which doesn't give me an indication of his reflexes at all.



Zetsu stated that Itachi should've been much faster than how he performed against Sasuke. The Edos were roughly close to their full strength, so Edo Itachi being slightly inferior to Healthy Itachi doesn't at all imply that Edo Itachi = Sick Itachi when Healthy Itachi was much faster than Sick Itachi whereas Edo Itachi rivals Healthy Itachi.

I'll keep it short.

1.Other paths 1v1 ≠ Tendo Pain.

Konohamaru took down a path.

2.Pain was reacting to 6tails and even outran it. There's my explanation.

3.Kakashi was clearly not going full throttle, he still outdid Sasuke. So this whole point of Taka Sasuke was pretty useless to bring up.

4.About zetsu stating that. Ok fair enough. Although even Orochimaru's much more improved edo tensei was not even exactly full strength.

 

[NarutoX28]

I'll keep it short.

1.Other paths 1v1 ≠ Tendo Pain.

Tendo didn't display reflexes that were above the likes of Human Path's or Preta Path's, the former that Jiraiya trashed easily. The only one who was lagging behind was Animal Path who possessed a female body.

Konohamaru took down a path.

Okay and Kakashi didn't. That same Path was completely fine if he was still alive and capable of reviving Ashura Path.

2.Pain was reacting to 6tails and even outran it. There's my explanation.

Here's my explanation:

The Tendo that Kakashi fought was the Tendo who only had 1/6 of Nagato's chakra due to distributing all of his chakra towards all of his Paths. The Tendo KN6 Naruto fought was the version where Nagato distributed all of his chakra towards. They're incomparable, so using that as an argument will not work.

3.Kakashi was clearly not going full throttle, he still outdid Sasuke. So this whole point of Taka Sasuke was pretty useless to bring up.

Not really. Sasuke effortlessly reacted to his attacks and managed to hold his own for multiple panels before resorting to Susano'o. Fact of the matter is, Kakashi couldn't even reliably defeat a Blind and Weakened man in Taijutsu.

4.About zetsu stating that. Ok fair enough. Although even Orochimaru's much more improved edo tensei was not even exactly full strength.

Tobirama stated it was pretty close.

Kabuto's was still different than Orochimaru's Edo Tensei, so I don't think the same rules necessarily have to apply to Kabuto's ET.

 

[Lord Tywin]

Telepathic link with summoner and clones [

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][

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]
He needs to control it via eye contact.Judging from his reserves and feat during the arc i doubt that

Reserves barely matter here.

 

[ToshiZO]

Tendo didn't display reflexes that were above the likes of Human Path's or Preta Path's, the former that Jiraiya trashed easily. The only one who was lagging behind was Animal Path who possessed a female body.



Okay and Kakashi didn't. That same Path was completely fine if he was still alive and capable of reviving Ashura Path.



Here's my explanation:

The Tendo that Kakashi fought was the Tendo who only had 1/6 of Nagato's chakra due to distributing all of his chakra towards all of his Paths. The Tendo KN6 Naruto fought was the version where Nagato distributed all of his chakra towards. They're incomparable, so using that as an argument will not work.



Not really. Sasuke effortlessly reacted to his attacks and managed to hold his own for multiple panels before resorting to Susano'o. Fact of the matter is, Kakashi couldn't even reliably defeat a Blind and Weakened man in Taijutsu.



Tobirama stated it was pretty close.

Kabuto's was still different than Orochimaru's Edo Tensei, so I don't think the same rules necessarily have to apply to Kabuto's ET.

You can't be serious. Konohamaru even having a chance at landing an attack on a path just shows you how weak they are in a 1v1, the exception being Tendo.

"Kakashi didn't" what type of reply is that lmfao, something Konohamaru can do, Kakashi can do in his sleep. That's common sense.

And what multiple panels did Sasuke manage to hold his own?

I'll run you through what happened step by step again, even though I already did.

-Kakashi comes outta nowhere to intercept the chidori.
-Sasuke tries attacking Kakashi, only to get his ass kicked back a couple of meters.
-Sasuke activates MS, Kakashi activates his sharingan

Next panel we see:
-Sasuke is firing a susanoo arrow
-Kakashi activates MS mid flight and Kamui's them away.

That's it. Again a pretty useless point to even bring up when that is all that took place.


Going all the way back to the original point, you have to be delusional to think Tsunade is faster than pre War arc Kakashi.

 

[Bogard]

Kakashi deceives her with genjutsu and cleanly cut her throat with raikiri
He is already faster than her and the sharingan precognition makes it even harder for Sakura to hit
Let alone when using his bunshin feints(with clone lightning to paralyze her mainly), genjutsu and overwhelming ninjutsu advantage(suiton, doton, raiton, katon, etc)
He is just the superior fighter that's all. Apart from strength, Sakura has nothing on him

 

[NarutoX28]

You can't be serious. Konohamaru even having a chance at landing an attack on a path just shows you how weak they are in a 1v1, the exception being Tendo.

No, it simply shows how easily each of the Paths can get ambushed without their Shared Vision.

The other Paths are not Naraka Path and Naraka Path alone could evade FRS which is an example of Kage level reflexes. None of the Paths were slow barring female animal path. Other than that, Kishimoto made it very clear that SM Jiraiya could take down each of the Paths 1v1 which showed throughout his strategy where he attempted to isolate one of Paths and easily smacked Animal Path as a result or the fact that during his debut, he easily smacked Human Path across the entire battlefield.

Besides, wasn't Preta Path fending off multiple Jonin even after they resorted to physical attacks? Something tells me that they're all just not weak. Just because Naraka Path might be doesn't imply the other Paths are.

"Kakashi didn't" what type of reply is that lmfao, something Konohamaru can do, Kakashi can do in his sleep. That's common sense.

Almost as bad as your argument where Naraka Path is weak because he lost to Konohamaru even though he smacked Jonins left and right.

And what multiple panels did Sasuke manage to hold his own?

I'll run you through what happened step by step again, even though I already did.

-Kakashi comes outta nowhere to intercept the chidori.
-Sasuke tries attacking Kakashi, only to get his ass kicked back a couple of meters.
-Sasuke activates MS, Kakashi activates his sharingan

Next panel we see:
-Sasuke is firing a susanoo arrow
-Kakashi activates MS mid flight and Kamui's them away.

That's it. Again a pretty useless point to even bring up when that is all that took place.

What happened was Sasuke deliberately charged at Kakashi. We didn't see the rest, true, but he didn't immediately resort to Susano'o as the battle then took place off the bridge and Kakashi only mentions, "Oh, that's Susano'o" once Sasuke instantly initiated his Susano'o Arrow meaning that there was an extended period of time where Sasuke fought without his Mangekyo before he resorted to Susano'o.

Going all the way back to the original point, you have to be delusional to think Tsunade is faster than pre War arc Kakashi.

Then explain to me what speed feats Pre-War Arc Kakashi has that surpasses Tsunade's.

 

[BLAZE]

Didn't Preta intercept SM Naruto's FRS

 

[NarutoX28]

Didn't Preta intercept SM Naruto's FRS

Yeah, he did.

 

[Bogard]

Then explain to me what speed feats Pre-War Arc Kakashi has that surpasses Tsunade's.

Kabuto could keep up with Tsunade, even outmaneuvring her at one point

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Kakashi disarmed him in a page

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[NarutoX28]

Kabuto could keep up with Tsunade, even outmaneuvring her at one point

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Kakashi disarmed him in a page

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That's Kabuto w/ Soldier Pills who was superior to the one that Kakashi fought and Tsunade was Rusty.

 

[Bogard]

That's Kabuto w/ Soldier Pills who was superior to the one that Kakashi fought and Tsunade was Rusty.

The soldier pills only affected his stamina. It had nothing to do with his taijutsu stats. And no, Tsunade was only fearing blood. Blood didn't spread at that point for her not to be at her maximal capabilities. She even admit herself that Kabuto's abilities surpassed her own in her prime

 

[NarutoX28]

The soldier pills only affected his stamina. It had nothing to do with his taijutsu stats. And no, Tsunade was only fearing blood. Blood didn't spread at that point for her not to be at her maximal capabilities. She even admit herself that Kabuto's abilities surpassed her own in her prime

Soldier Pills enables one to use more chakra which increases their speed.

Her admitting that his abilities surpassed her own in her prime does not imply that Kabuto's above War Arc Tsunade.