Sage Mode Naruto vs Ei

[Xlad]

What a poor excuse, might as well say Naruto noticed Sai was sweating. He was clearly blitzed, there is nothing more that needs to be said.

Are you telling what I said didn't happen? [

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]>[

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That situation was no different then when Sasuke with EMS got blitz by incompleted Juubito. He was blitzed, yet he was able to track a superior version of him. [

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The leap has the same difference that there is between V1 speed and V2 speed. Pretty huge.

V2 and V1 doesn't exist.

If he has a clone take a hit for him, then who will help him make hold the Oodama rasengan. And Ei dodged Jūgos laser from point blank range (despite having his hand inside Jūgo), Naruto is not hitting Ei. Yak = Fodder compared to Ei, KCM Naruto said that if he took a direct hit from V1 Ei it would have been GG, SM Naruto is not more durable then KCM Naruto.

That was an added text by ***********. It doesn't actually exist. Like when Sasuke said he was going to use one of the TSBs as a foothold.

Also, we are talking about horizontal/vertical chop which is a piercing attack, a regular sword was able to pierce through SM Madaras skin, who is far more durable then SM Naruto, lightning chop cuts his hands off.

Madara's only has Senjutsu chakra, not SM itself. The mode went on Hashirama's face instead of his. Naruto fell on piles of stalagmites and didn't get scratched.

They have unlimited endurance as an Edo Tensei, so any cells that would have been destroyed in the process, would have not made a difference as an Edo, but they sure as hell would if he was a living human.

There's no unlimited endurance. That's why Muu got blasted through by Planetary Rasengan. [

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No, Ei will knock the clone out of the way and hit the real one. If he noticed that Naruto is making a Oodama rasengan he will dodge. Jūgos laser has a larger AoE then Oodama Rasengan.

How? He doesn't have an ocular power that can distinct from one clone to the next. Naruto has mixed up his clones in the process, confusing his enemies.

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Dude, don't be ignorant. You are smart enough to understand what I am saying, the example was simply support, its common sense. The same affinity attack could offset one another, just like Sasukes chidori did with Eis armour or Kakashi did with Gian, another affinity cannot offset another affinity.

Ei clearly said it was able to pierce his armor.
Affinity has absolutely nothing to do with it or otherwise it would be mentioned.

Don't play me for a fool, mangapanda is about as far from a Viz translation as it possibly gets.

Either way, he says sense better, not give better reflexes, and then he adds "with this I can dodge the enemy at the last moment" to support my argument.

Huh?

 

[KidGamer65]

He pours more chakra into his armour, FACT. The more chakra he puts into his armour the larger and more effective it becomes, FACT.

Which is proof that increases. Get me proof that the jump will be so great that he can tank FRS like you claimed, until then your claim is nothing but unsubstantiated BS.

That's not a Oodama Rasengan buddy. Ei charges, Naruto makes a clone, Ei hits the clone while Naruto makes the rasengan, Naruto attacks Ei and Ei dodges.......heck, Ei could just follow up on the real one while he is making the clone like Madara followed up on Sai.

Its just about as large as one. [

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] Not to mention since Naruto can form that large a Rasengan by himself in Sage Mode, he can do the same with Oodama, which is pretty much the same size anyway.

Why the hell not? Is the Naruto clone holding him down? No, the clone goes poof once it gets hit, there is absolutely nothing stopping Ei from dodging the Oodama Rasengan in the exact same way he dodged the Laser. Naruto would need to make the clone, Shunshin far away, make another clone, make FRS and throw it before Ei hits his clone and shunshins to him, that's not happening.

For the same reason he couldn't evade

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. After using Shunshin, he's left vulnerable and has no time to move before he gets hit again. That's why B had to come in and push him out of the way. If Ay Shunshin's, stops and punches/chops the clone, that gives the other Naruto clones MORE than enough time to hit him with Rasengan.

Or, Naruto makes over a dozen clones, and since he can't locate the real Naruto, he easily creates an FRS and tosses it right at him using his clones as cover.

Or, when he hits his clone, Naruto calls Ma and Pa and paralyzes him with Frog Call, or blinds him with a Dust Cloud.

Or, Naruto blocks his attack with a clone, blinds him with a Dust Cloud, and then slams a Rasengan into his chest.

Or, Naruto outright evades Ay's linear blitz (Making it easier for his sensing to track him) and he slams Rasengan into him, thus killing him. Something that is possible since he was able to evade One Fingered Nukite from an inch away, and unless Ay is hundreds of times faster than his father (Which he's not) the above feat combined with the fact he is 30 meters away from Ay, means that he can and will pull this off.

Literally so many ways Ay dies here.


Ay's plan was to get Minato with a similar trick. He was going to force him to teleport, and then Shunshin over to him. Yeah, Minato can teleport instantaneously, but there is still lag time in between his arrival and him being reacting to teleport once again, meaning if Ay was fast enough, he'd be able to hit him. [

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Seems you completely ignored the part where Ei's regular punch would have KO'd KCM Naruto if he did not block. And your also wrong the Yak part, not only did Ei's liger bomb create a much larger crater, but most of his damage was soaked up by Susanoo and he had no momentum whatsoever, while the Yak had plenty of momentum.

That wasn't in the real, official translation or the mangapanda translation. KCM Naruto never said that if he takes a hit from Ay he'll die.

well I gave you scans for the second statement, do you still disagree with that statement in light of those scans?

As for the first statement: Naruto never says anything about "if i take a clean hit, i'm screwed" nor does he say anything about Ei's punches 'weighting a million tons'. he simply says

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This scan is further backed up by the fact that killer bee in base and with a partially transformed arm is capable of

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and

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V1 and V2 Ei's hits. While on the otherhand, 1 tailed han's hits are so powerful that partially transformed bee is completely outclassed in the strength department as he

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Bee didn't even take the hit himself.

That's a post from another user. KCM Naruto dying from taking a direct hit from Ay is nonsense.

And lol @ the Yak part. You'd have to be trolling out the ass to say that

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, is larger than

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when the Yak can fit in there, and its as large as a boss summon.



Ay had no momentum? He swung Sasuke above the ground and slammed him back into the ground. That was his momentum, that's all the momentum put into Liger Bomb as its nothing but a body slam.

Yak's attack>Liger Bomb. So Naruto can block Ay's attacks.

Do you know how FRS works? It attacks the cells, there won't be any visible damage if the character has some decent durability, the real damage would be on the inside.

I do, apparently you don't. How in the world is it going to pierce his skin to get to his cells if it can't pierce his skin to begin with? Unless the cells are now outside of the body...lmfao.

First of all, he does not need to stop to hit the clone, he hits the clone and continues on his journey of blitzing.

Shunshin is a quick burst of speed, and Ay moves linearly when he does it. There is no "Continuous" Shunshin. He Shunshin's to the point he is trying to get to,

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.

Now Naruto can make over a dozen SM clones? (And don't bring up the feats in the Kurama world, where Hachibi's hand tanked Kuramas Bijudama). And even if he does, Ei blitzes all of them. He WILL have time to dodge, like you say, its that simple.

No reason why he can't. If you believe that he can't, get evidence.

Lol @ the nonsense in the bold. Ay can't even blitz one Naruto clone, and he moves in a linear path when he blitzes. Unless they are all lined up waiting for Ay to run past them, this shit isn't happening. He runs into a Naruto clone, and when he stops, the rest bombard him with Rasengan.

Raikiri neutralized Gian

It blocked it. Not neutralized.


Chidori neutralized Lightning Armour.

Why did Kakashi not use another Jutsu to stop Gian?

Obviously because Raikiri is his strongest. No proof he used it because of the lightning element.

[So now better sensing = reacting faster? So Karin has better reaction speed then Minato? What a great argument that is LOL. This concept is flawed, I don't see why anyone would want to grasp this concept. Better precognition helps react better, but it does not automatically give better reflexes.

Sage Sensing is pretty much the same thing as precog. [

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] Why the hell are we referencing Karin when she doesn't use Sage Sensing? Lmfao. Don't know why its so hard to grasp this concept, but its ridiculous.

Irrelevant, it means that you can react faster. Naruto stated that he can react faster than he does in KCM, in Sage Mode. Sasuke's reflexes didn't get better, his precog did meaning he was able to react faster despite his reflexes not being any better than they were before.

Sasuke's reflexes aren't as good as BSM Naruto's, but his EMS precognation let him strike at the same time as Naruto.

Especially not way better reflexes.

Except I never said this, so I still don't know why you are still repeating the same thing.

 

[AlphaScythian]

V2 Ay blitzes the hell out of him

 

[Kamui Sama]

That Yak is OP :snick:

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

Which is proof that increases. Get me proof that the jump will be so great that he can tank FRS like you claimed, until then your claim is nothing but unsubstantiated BS.

3rd Raikage survived an FRS with V1 active. In base he gets cut but some basic Futon

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. Do you understand what this means? The armour is what took the majority of the blow against FRS. Ei's armour > 3rd Raikages armour. Do you know what this means? Ei's armour takes the majority of the blow and Ei comes out injured, not killed.

Its just about as large as one. [

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] Not to mention since Naruto can form that large a Rasengan by himself in Sage Mode, he can do the same with Oodama, which is pretty much the same size anyway.

Seems I overrated it, Oodama Rasengan is also doing little damage.

For the same reason he couldn't evade

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. After using Shunshin, he's left vulnerable and has no time to move before he gets hit again. That's why B had to come in and push him out of the way. If Ay Shunshin's, stops and punches/chops the clone, that gives the other Naruto clones MORE than enough time to hit him with Rasengan.

Which is why he hits the clone and starts moving again, this is what I said from the beginning, what are you getting at.....

Also, that was V2 Ei Shunshin, not V1. In V1 he has shown that he can control his speed when facing KCM Naruto in speed. Naruto can react to V1, the most he could do against V2 is put his hands up, only for them to get cut off.

Or, Naruto makes over a dozen clones, and since he can't locate the real Naruto, he easily creates an FRS and tosses it right at him using his clones as cover.

Or, when he hits his clone, Naruto calls Ma and Pa and paralyzes him with Frog Call, or blinds him with a Dust Cloud.

Or, Naruto blocks his attack with a clone, blinds him with a Dust Cloud, and then slams a Rasengan into his chest.

Or, Naruto outright evades Ay's linear blitz (Making it easier for his sensing to track him) and he slams Rasengan into him, thus killing him. Something that is possible since he was able to evade One Fingered Nukite from an inch away, and unless Ay is hundreds of times faster than his father (Which he's not) the above feat combined with the fact he is 30 meters away from Ay, means that he can and will pull this off.

Literally so many ways Ay dies here.

If he uses FRS from close range he is dying himself, while Ei can pour all his chakra in the armour to survive the attack.
LOL so now Naruto can instantly summon Ma and Pa and Ma and Pa instantly activate Frog Song? Nice fanfic you got there.
Clone ain't blocking shit, clone gets sent flying into Naruto and goes poof and then Ei blitzes to Naruto while he is in the air and GG.
Rasengan is not killing him, your getting desperate. Naruto is not avoiding V2 Ei. Also, I was not aware of the distance, if its only 30m, Naruto won't even have time to take out a clone, 30m is covered in under a second.

That's a post from another user. KCM Naruto dying from taking a direct hit from Ay is nonsense.

And lol @ the Yak part. You'd have to be trolling out the ass to say that

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, is larger than

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when the Yak can fit in there, and its as large as a boss summon.

More like you would have to be trolling out of your ass to say

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is smaller then

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. And like I said before, that small crater from the liger bomb is probably not even a quarter of what would have been, had Susanoo not soaked up most of the damage and Ei having more momentum.

Ay had no momentum? He swung Sasuke above the ground and slammed him back into the ground. That was his momentum, that's all the momentum put into Liger Bomb as its nothing but a body slam.

Yak's attack>Liger Bomb. So Naruto can block Ay's attacks.

Did you not see Susanoo there? Do you not understand that Susanoo is as big as Ei himself? This means that Ei had maybe 5 centimetres of momentum, if that.

Even if Naruto where to miraculously block his punches, its completely different from blocking a piercing attack, which he can't do.

I do, apparently you don't. How in the world is it going to pierce his skin to get to his cells if it can't pierce his skin to begin with? Unless the cells are now outside of the body...lmfao.

Ironically you don't. Seems you completely missed Tsunades example. Tell me, was Kakuzu's skin gone after the RS? I don't think so. Where all/most of his cells destroyed? Most certainly.

Shunshin is a quick burst of speed, and Ay moves linearly when he does it. There is no "Continuous" Shunshin. He Shunshin's to the point he is trying to get to,

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.

Depends, in V2 yes, but Naruto can't dodge V2 so its irrelevant. In V1, no. There CAN be continues Shunshin in V1. Its controllable speed.

No reason why he can't. If you believe that he can't, get evidence.

The fact that he couldn't make anymore then a couple clones with a couple FRS before running out is proof enough.

Lol @ the nonsense in the bold. Ay can't even blitz one Naruto clone, and he moves in a linear path when he blitzes. Unless they are all lined up waiting for Ay to run past them, this shit isn't happening. He runs into a Naruto clone, and when he stops, the rest bombard him with Rasengan.

In V2 he blitzes all of them. He rams a clone stops, shunshins away from the incoming rasengans and they all hit each other.

It blocked it. Not neutralized.

In this context they are the same thing.

Obviously because Raikiri is his strongest. No proof he used it because of the lightning element.

Why would he use his strongest and most chakra taxing Jutsu if he could have done it with another less taxing Jutsu?

Sage Sensing is pretty much the same thing as precog. [

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] Why the hell are we referencing Karin when she doesn't use Sage Sensing? Lmfao. Don't know why its so hard to grasp this concept, but its ridiculous.

Why the hell does it matter if she does not have sage mode? She has 'sensing', which Naruto said is better in Sage Mode and is the topic at hand. Not better 'sage sensing' which is obviously obvious when KCM does not even have sage sensing.

Irrelevant, it means that you can react faster. Naruto stated that he can react faster than he does in KCM, in Sage Mode. Sasuke's reflexes didn't get better, his precog did meaning he was able to react faster despite his reflexes not being any better than they were before.

No he said he senses better. If he reacted better, he would have outright stated it. With better sensing, he could have timed his attack better. Yes they did, just like his movement speed and virtually everything else got better.

Sasuke's reflexes aren't as good as BSM Naruto's, but his EMS precognation let him strike at the same time as Naruto.

Wrong. Their reflexes are equal, both had precog.

 

[KidGamer65]

3rd Raikage survived an FRS with V1 active. In base he gets cut but some basic Futon

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. Do you understand what this means? The armour is what took the majority of the blow against FRS. Ei's armour > 3rd Raikages armour. Do you know what this means? Ei's armour takes the majority of the blow and Ei comes out injured, not killed.

The 3rd Raikage's body is more durable than Ay's considering that combination Cast Net>>Chidori, yet Chidori wounded Ay even with his armor on, and the basic Futon made light wounds where it hit him, barely did shit to him. The 3rd Raikage's body is more durable than Ay's considering FRS hit him, yet he took no damage, while Chidori pierced Ay and wounded him.

What you posted only means that the armor boosts his overall durability to a point where he can take FRS. If V1 Ay was as durable as the 3rd Raikage with his armor on, Chidori wouldn't have pierced him. If the armor is what took the brunt of FRS, then Chidori wouldn't have pierced right through it.

FRS>>>>>>>>>>Chidori, so the brunt of FRS can't be blocked by the armor when something much weaker already pierced right through it.

I don't know where you are getting this idiotic notion that Ay is as durable as his father, but you need to cut this shit out, there are panels that outright shit on your argument.

Seems I overrated it, Oodama Rasengan is also doing little damage.

Based on what? Oh wait, nothing. Chidori pierced his armor and his skin, so anything stronger deals heavy damage to him, and SM Oodama Rasengan blows his chest out.

Which is why he hits the clone and starts moving again, this is what I said from the beginning, what are you getting at.....

Lol. HE WON'T HAVE TIME. How hard is that to understand? There is no "He simply starts moving again" otherwise he would have done the same thing against Minato.

Also, that was V2 Ei Shunshin, not V1. In V1 he has shown that he can control his speed when facing KCM Naruto in speed. Naruto can react to V1, the most he could do against V2 is put his hands up, only for them to get cut off. [/QUOTE]
Except we are talking about V2, not V1, so you telling me its V1 isn't even relevant, unless you are telling me that Ay charges in with v1 active.

And no, Naruto can slightly evade Ay from 30 meters away, or he can counter with Rasengan, for the stated reasons. Repeating yourself isn't a counter argument last time I checked.

If he uses FRS from close range he is dying himself, while Ei can pour all his chakra in the armour to survive the attack.

Or he can get out of range, and Ay surviving FRS is nonsense when Chidori already pierced him, and you've failed to provide evidence that he can survive anything stronger than that.

LOL so now Naruto can instantly summon Ma and Pa and Ma and Pa instantly activate Frog Song? Nice fanfic you got there.

Summoning is instantaneous, and Ma and Pa only need to speak to use

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. No handsigns necessary, nor did I ever say it was instant. It being fast enough for Ay doesn't mean its instant.

Clone ain't blocking shit, clone gets sent flying into Naruto and goes poof and then Ei blitzes to Naruto while he is in the air and GG.

A clone is going to get sent flying into the original Naruto even though Ay doesn't know where the original Naruto is due to the other clones surrounding him, and he'll hit Naruto so that he goes flying into a clone and get sent flying in the air, despite that being physically impossible? Lol, what kind of nonsense is this?

Rasengan is not killing him, your getting desperate. Naruto is not avoiding V2 Ei. Also, I was not aware of the distance, if its only 30m, Naruto won't even have time to take out a clone, 30m is covered in under a second.

I'm gonna need some kind of evidence for everything you stated here.

More like you would have to be trolling out of your ass to say

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is smaller then

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. And like I said before, that small crater from the liger bomb is probably not even a quarter of what would have been, had Susanoo not soaked up most of the damage and Ei having more momentum.

Well, its confirmed, you are trolling out the ass. I'm tempted to not even bother with this discussion after seeing you blatantly deny manga evidence.

This.

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Isn't as wide as this.

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Even if it is, its not by much, and its completely rendered moot by the fact that this.

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Is no where as deep as this impact.

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Unless you are telling me Jiraiya can hide so far into the crater that Ay made with his Liger Bomb, in which case I'd have to tell you to gtfo. Lol


Susanoo soaking up the damage only means that Sasuke didn't take any of the damage, it doesn't change how big the resulting crater would have been.

Did you not see Susanoo there? Do you not understand that Susanoo is as big as Ei himself? This means that Ei had maybe 5 centimetres of momentum, if that.

Like I said, that's all the momentum the technique uses, and lol at the bold. I'm pretty Momentum isn't measured by distance, lmao, so what the hell do you even mean by "5 cm of momentum"? Susanoo being as big as Ay is irrelevant, his momentum for the Liger Bomb would have come from when he lifted Sasuke up, and slammed him into the ground, that was BEFORE Susanoo was active, not after.

Even if Naruto where to miraculously block his punches, its completely different from blocking a piercing attack, which he can't do.

Ay has no piercing attacks, only cutting attacks, and if he blocks much stronger attacks, a much weaker cutting attack isn't going to cut him.

Ironically you don't. Seems you completely missed Tsunades example. Tell me, was Kakuzu's skin gone after the RS? I don't think so. Where all/most of his cells destroyed? Most certainly.

Irrelevant. Did the FRS pierce him? Cause that is all that is needed. Oh wait, it did. Don't know where you got "His skin had to be destroyed" from, but its obviously false.

Depends, in V2 yes, but Naruto can't dodge V2 so its irrelevant. In V1, no. There CAN be continues Shunshin in V1. Its controllable speed.

"Continuous" Shunshin completely goes against the description of the jutsu, so now you are just making shit up.

The fact that he couldn't make anymore then a couple clones with a couple FRS before running out is proof enough.

Back in the Pain Arc, where he had to limit his clone usage because he was gathering Nature Energy, a stated reason. Gonna need proof that anything else inhibits clone usage.

In V2 he blitzes all of them. He rams a clone stops, shunshins away from the incoming rasengans and they all hit each other.

He rams a clone, stops, and in that period he dies. He didn't do shit to evade Minato's attack so he won't be doing shit here either for the same reason, he has no time.

Why would he use his strongest and most chakra taxing Jutsu if he could have done it with another less taxing Jutsu?

Because his weaker jutsu aren't enough. Once again, no proof that he used it for the element.

Why the hell does it matter if she does not have sage mode? She has 'sensing', which Naruto said is better in Sage Mode and is the topic at hand. Not better 'sage sensing' which is obviously obvious when KCM does not even have sage sensing.

Because Sage Sensing isn't the same as normal sensing. Sage Sensing allows precognation. Normal Sensing doesn't. Bold makes no sense whatsoever either, Sage Sensiing and Normal Sensing being different doesn't mean that he can't compare Sage Sensing to Normal Sensing when they are both sensing at the end of the day.

Karin's sensing is only superior because of the unique abilities it has anyway, not because of its speed.

No he said he senses better. If he reacted better, he would have outright stated it. With better sensing, he could have timed his attack better. Yes they did, just like his movement speed and virtually everything else got better.

He did, when he said he senses better. Better and faster sensing=The ability to react faster.

Lmfao. So getting a pair of eyes made Sasuke faster? Lets be serious here. Not only are there no feats to actually support this, eyes making him faster makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, unless you have a good ass explanation, otherwise..just stop.

EMS increases Sharingan abilities, not movement speed.

Wrong. Their reflexes are equal, both had precog.

Sasuke couldn't react to V2 Ay, Naruto outright avoided him. So that's false.

 

[Exaar]

Just as much damage as Chidori as they are equal.

Thats pretty bad logic.

Chidori's power is focused into a single point, allowing it to break through the armor and other defensive moves that blunt force attacks would not be able to do despite having the same/more power behind them.

 

[KidGamer65]

Thats pretty bad logic.

Chidori's power is focused into a single point, allowing it to break through the armor and other defensive moves that blunt force attacks would not be able to do despite having the same/more power behind them.

Doesn't mean that attacks much stronger than Chidori won't hurt Ay.

 

[DarkStar1]

SM Naruto mid diffs.

 

[genii96]

Where do people get the idea that sm naruto has better reflexes than kcm naruto?,base madara blitzed him,kcm dodged v2 ay.
Naruto used sage mode only after his kcm expired.

 

[ChocolateVanilla]

Where do people get the idea that sm naruto has better reflexes than kcm naruto?,base madara blitzed him,kcm dodged v2 ay.
Naruto used sage mode only after his kcm expired.

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The only things that KCM grants are larger reserves,faster Shunshin, and the ability to sense negative emotions.
SM Naruto has some pretty amazing Shunshin feats as well

 

[Conspirator.]

Naruto wins with mid diff at the worst.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

The 3rd Raikage's body is more durable than Ay's considering that combination Cast Net>>Chidori, yet Chidori wounded Ay even with his armor on, and the basic Futon made light wounds where it hit him, barely did shit to him. The 3rd Raikage's body is more durable than Ay's considering FRS hit him, yet he took no damage, while Chidori pierced Ay and wounded him.

What you posted only means that the armor boosts his overall durability to a point where he can take FRS. If V1 Ay was as durable as the 3rd Raikage with his armor on, Chidori wouldn't have pierced him. If the armor is what took the brunt of FRS, then Chidori wouldn't have pierced right through it.

FRS>>>>>>>>>>Chidori, so the brunt of FRS can't be blocked by the armor when something much weaker already pierced right through it.

I don't know where you are getting this idiotic notion that Ay is as durable as his father, but you need to cut this shit out, there are panels that outright shit on your argument.

Barely did shit to him my ass, that's one of the most damaging instances we have seen to an Edo since Haku. Not only that, but there is absolutely no evidence that the cast net is stronger then Chidori, your simply saying it is for the sake of your argument, circular reasoning.

3rd Raikage V1 > V1 Ei. 3rd Raikage V1 >= V2 Ei.

You seem to not understand that I am talking about V2 Ei, who pours much more chakra into his armour.

Based on what? Oh wait, nothing. Chidori pierced his armor and his skin, so anything stronger deals heavy damage to him, and SM Oodama Rasengan blows his chest out.

Based on the plethora of examples I have already shown. Oodama best feat was taking out a fodder, even base Ei could survive it. SM Oodama Rasnegan also gets tanked with V2 armour.

Lol. HE WON'T HAVE TIME. How hard is that to understand? There is no "He simply starts moving again" otherwise he would have done the same thing against Minato.

Except we are talking about V2, not V1, so you telling me its V1 isn't even relevant, unless you are telling me that Ay charges in with v1 active.

And no, Naruto can slightly evade Ay from 30 meters away, or he can counter with Rasengan, for the stated reasons. Repeating yourself isn't a counter argument last time I checked.

He was in V2 against Minato, what do you not understand? Also, Minato spawned right next to him and kicked him away. Ei was planning to get Minato the second he spawned somewhere else, so he COULD have maneuvered around.

If we are talking about V2 then there is no argument here. V2 Ei straight up blitzes SM Naruto, no way in hell is Naruto going to have time to make a clone, let alone make a clone, jump away, make an SM Oodama rasengan and attack all in the time span that Ei comes, your being absolutely ridiculous. THE MOST NARUTO CAN DO AGAINST A V2 EI IS BLOCK. This is confirmed fact by the fact that the most he was able to do against base Madara was block. And quiet honestly, I am even being generous in that aspect, he should not even be capable of blocking considering V2 Ei is faster then Madara.

Or he can get out of range, and Ay surviving FRS is nonsense when Chidori already pierced him, and you've failed to provide evidence that he can survive anything stronger than that.

Not really, your just ignoring the evidence.

Summoning is instantaneous, and Ma and Pa only need to speak to use

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. No handsigns necessary, nor did I ever say it was instant. It being fast enough for Ay doesn't mean its instant.

Show me where Naruto made the contract with the two toad sages. Ei blitzes the two fronts before they can even speak, heck, he blitzes Naruto before he can even summon them.

A clone is going to get sent flying into the original Naruto even though Ay doesn't know where the original Naruto is due to the other clones surrounding him, and he'll hit Naruto so that he goes flying into a clone and get sent flying in the air, despite that being physically impossible? Lol, what kind of nonsense is this?

If its V2 Ei, Naruto is not even making clones. You said Naruto could use his clone as a shield, Ei knocks the clone into Naruto in that case. If a clone gets knocked into Naruto, his feet will lift off the ground, thus, sent flying.

I'm gonna need some kind of evidence for everything you stated here.

Humans can run 100m in 9 seconds if we where to round up, 30m is less then 1/3 of that but we will say its 1/3 for your sake. Which means that a human (granted the fastest human in the world) can run 30m in at most, 5 seconds, considering he needs to start with momentum (if he starts with momentum, its 3). Fodders in Naruto can jump on high tree twigs and casually jump from tree to tree,a fodder can cover that distance in like 3 seconds. Ei is by no means a fodder, even in base he could cover that distance in a single Shunshin, let alone V1 and V2.

Well, its confirmed, you are trolling out the ass. I'm tempted to not even bother with this discussion after seeing you blatantly deny manga evidence.

This.

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Isn't as wide as this.

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Even if it is, its not by much, and its completely rendered moot by the fact that this.

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Is no where as deep as this impact.

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Unless you are telling me Jiraiya can hide so far into the crater that Ay made with his Liger Bomb, in which case I'd have to tell you to gtfo. Lol

LOLOLOL

Yes, clearly, the hole is smaller then the one Ei made, CLEARLY,

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is another angle on the hole.

That tunnel was not made by the Yak genius, there are many tunnels like that in that location, Jiraiya retreated there later.

Susanoo soaking up the damage only means that Sasuke didn't take any of the damage, it doesn't change how big the resulting crater would have been.

Sure it does, if Ei had smashed the ground with his own two hands, the crater would have been much much larger.

Like I said, that's all the momentum the technique uses, and lol at the bold. I'm pretty Momentum isn't measured by distance, lmao, so what the hell do you even mean by "5 cm of momentum"? Susanoo being as big as Ay is irrelevant, his momentum for the Liger Bomb would have come from when he lifted Sasuke up, and slammed him into the ground, that was BEFORE Susanoo was active, not after.

The more someone travels with speed, the more momentum one has. And wrong, because Susanoo took the damage, in other words, Ei was not able to smash as far as he wanted, because Susanoo was in the way.

Ay has no piercing attacks, only cutting attacks, and if he blocks much stronger attacks, a much weaker cutting attack isn't going to cut him.

You do realize that his lightning chop is exactly like Chidori? If he rams into someone with his hand in the same position as a Chidori, it will be piercing damage, just like Chidori. What has Naruto blocked? Are you seriously telling me that SM Naruto can tank a lightning chop? The same chop that breaks through and/or cracks Susanoo? ROFL. Naruto's hands get cut wether you like it or not.

"Continuous" Shunshin completely goes against the description of the jutsu, so now you are just making shit up.

Shunshin, hit one guy, Shunshin, hit the other guy in rapid succession. Madara did it, I don't understand what you can't understand.

Back in the Pain Arc, where he had to limit his clone usage because he was gathering Nature Energy, a stated reason. Gonna need proof that anything else inhibits clone usage.

This also happened in the war arc, when the Jubi was making it rain with Mokuton spikes.

He rams a clone, stops, and in that period he dies. He didn't do shit to evade Minato's attack so he won't be doing shit here either for the same reason, he has no time.

Nope, he dodges again. Minato teleported right behind him and pushed him away. He later says that he is going to catch Minato the second he teleports elsewhere, which would be impossible if he stopped and then went again.

Because Sage Sensing isn't the same as normal sensing. Sage Sensing allows precognation. Normal Sensing doesn't. Bold makes no sense whatsoever either, Sage Sensiing and Normal Sensing being different doesn't mean that he can't compare Sage Sensing to Normal Sensing when they are both sensing at the end of the day.

Karin's sensing is only superior because of the unique abilities it has anyway, not because of its speed.

Sure it does.

He did, when he said he senses better. Better and faster sensing=The ability to react faster.

Lmfao. So getting a pair of eyes made Sasuke faster? Lets be serious here. Not only are there no feats to actually support this, eyes making him faster makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, unless you have a good ass explanation, otherwise..just stop.

EMS increases Sharingan abilities, not movement speed.

Yes it did, he

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KCM Naruto.

Sasuke couldn't react to V2 Ay, Naruto outright avoided him. So that's false.

Using MS Sasuke as an example....wow. Sasuke outpaced said KCM Naruto once he got EMS, and they reacted and countered Juubito AT THE EXACT SAME TIME.

 

[LuckyMan]

Not to barge in on your debate but I will address two things I read from both and I think needs to be addressed.


@Killua Zoldyck

A contract with the toads is a contract with all the toads that reside at their home. There is no separate contract for them all because they are elder toads, and yes, Naruto can logically summon them and use Frog Call, not Frog Sound. Frog Call is a ninjutsu that paralyzes the enemy momentarily and Frog Sound is the genjutsu used by Jiraiya during his fight with Pain, thats what requires preparation time, Frog Call does not. So basically yes, if the Ma + Pa comes out then Ay most likely loses.

@Kidgamer65

There was no translation error when Naruto made that comment. He says if he takes a direct hit he is screwed and in the anime all he says is "I better avoid a direct hit". Thats basically the same thing. He leaves out the "or I'm screwed part" there but if he needs to avoid a direct hit then the obvious conclusion is that a direct hit would screw him, which would have been incapacitating him to where he would be no longer able to escape to go fight, essentially KO'd or defeated. Also that guys post ( I debated with him and quit) held many claims that simply wasn't true ( the reason why I quit). Bee blocked Ay's punch with Gyuki's hand, not his bare body. We saw a slight elbow with zero momentum from Ay to Bee's bare body

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or at the very least knocked them around because

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then began to

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. Bee overpowered him with his Lariat during an emotional moment between them (yeah sounds all weak and gay but its the truth) along with Ay not moving at top speed. In the first scan I linked you see Ay tanked Bee's Lariat in V1 so it makes no sense that he can't tank it in V2. There is no way Bee is taking Ays Top Speed Punch in his base form, not even close considering these scans. Also that guy who made that post thinks Han is literally stronger than Ay and can repeat everything he has done on a greater scale and mind you he believes that all because Han kicked Naruto and knocked him into Bee and they went falling back... The claims were bad because 1: Han got a

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to Naruto's face when Ay did not. And 2: Ay also sent Naruto

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and

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, despite him guarding against it unlike he did with Han.


@Killua Zoldyck

You don't have to reply to this. You can find this information in the databook

@Kidgamer65

You don't have reply to this either, this is a topic that needs its own thread to be discussed and I don't want to get into this debate at this point when its so far in.

@OT It can go either way. If Naruto brings out Ma + Pa its GG and if Ay blitz's Naruto its GG.

 

[shelke]

Still have yet to see one decent reply as to why SM Naruto pulls a win here. I thought I came across a line that V1 and V2 are not the real deal for Ae. Seriously?

 

[lanakui8]

Ae wins. Giving KCM Naruto SM feats would not grant him the win. Nothing in the war arc suggests that Naruto's SM improved bar the inclusion of Kurama's chakra.

Are you kidding me?

Could pain arc Naruto use SM Chou oodama rasenshuriken?
Could pain arc Naruto use Chou oodama rasengan?
Could pain arc Naruto throw 3 rasenshurikens per sennin mode?
Could pain arc Naruto fuse with ma and pa?
Could pain arc Naruto enter SM almost instantly and while talking?

Answers:
Obviously not x5

War arc SM Naruto is an entire tier above Pain arc SM Naruto.

Ae in V1 is faster than third Raikage. His FRSs' are dodged with ease as Deva, despite having no noticeably fast speed feats dodged FRS and stabbed two Naruto clones at the same time. How hard would that be for Ae? Ae can simply outlast Naruto as well, as the guy has Bijuu level reserves.

Based on what is V1 Ei faster than the third raikage?ʻ
how does having more chakra than another person = outlasting them? Ei has more chakra, but if he uses things like V2 max shunshins and spams his RnY, heʻs not going to outlast the guy who not only has an enormous chakra pool himself, but has kyuubi healing, SM restoration powers, and increases his chakra reserves by adding natural energy to them.
Finally, why would naruto even throw FRS into Ei when Ei has to come to Naruto in order to attack him? Naruto doesnʻt even need the rasenshuriken, even a senpou rasengan would mess Ei up, anything above it like fuuton rasengan or oodama rasengan would outright kill Ei. Naruto just does the same thing he did to Eiʻs dad, or just shoves it right into Eiʻs fist instead of dodging. Or he could clone feint and blindside Ei with the rasengan.

Mid Difference most for Ae.

No, Ei gets thrashed.

 

[Sageflash]

Naruto wins with mid diff at best. He either dodges Ay same as he did his father and counters with Frog Kata strikes to the neck or Bunshin feints and tags him with Sage Art: Rasengan.

 

[lanakui8]

@Kidgamer65

There was no translation error when Naruto made that comment. He says if he takes a direct hit he is screwed and in the anime all he says is "I better avoid a direct hit". Thats basically the same thing. He leaves out the "or I'm screwed part" there but if he needs to avoid a direct hit then the obvious conclusion is that a direct hit would screw him, which would have been incapacitating him to where he would be no longer able to escape to go fight, essentially KO'd or defeated. Also that guys post ( I debated with him and quit) held many claims that simply wasn't true ( the reason why I quit). Bee blocked Ay's punch with Gyuki's hand, not his bare body. We saw a slight elbow with zero momentum from Ay to Bee's bare body

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or at the very least knocked them around because

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then began to

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. Bee overpowered him with his Lariat during an emotional moment between them (yeah sounds all weak and gay but its the truth) along with Ay not moving at top speed. In the first scan I linked you see Ay tanked Bee's Lariat in V1 so it makes no sense that he can't tank it in V2. There is no way Bee is taking Ays Top Speed Punch in his base form, not even close considering these scans. Also that guy who made that post thinks Han is literally stronger than Ay and can repeat everything he has done on a greater scale and mind you he believes that all because Han kicked Naruto and knocked him into Bee and they went falling back... The claims were bad because 1: Han got a

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to Naruto's face when Ay did not. And 2: Ay also sent Naruto

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and

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, despite him guarding against it unlike he did with Han.

Invisible man, why do you continue to push an argument you know is 100% false?
When we argued this, you ended up completely conceding this as you ended up being forced to ignore my entire argument. Bee in base overpowered V2 Ei. Bee w/ a partially transformed arm, caught V1 Eiʻs punch and didnʻt even budge. Bee got sent flying through the earth as a result of merely trying to stop the force of one of Hanʻs hits. Thereʻs no way you can argue that 1 tailed Hanʻs hits are not more powerful than V1 Eiʻs hits.

However, you have to assert an even more absurd point. You have to assert that not only does V1 Ei hit harder than Han, but his hits are several TIERS above 1 tailed Hanʻs since Naruto took Hanʻs hit w/ hardly any damage while you believe V1 Eiʻs hit would have taken Naruto out.

So no, there is literally no way that your translation can be true. If your scan was true, Ei would have blow Beeʻs hand off when bee tried to catch his strike, and Ei would have torn Beeʻs head off when their lariats clashed since 1 tailed Han is clearly >> Bee, and itʻs necessary for you to believe that V1 Ei >>> 1 tailed Han.

Stop being stubborn and concede this point that is clear to everyone and anyone who looks at the manga with any objectivity. The more you argue it, the more credibility you lose. If you want people to analyze the manga objectively and give your posts a fair shot, you have to do the same.

 

[Icelerate]

Are you kidding me?

Could pain arc Naruto use SM Chou oodama rasenshuriken?
Could pain arc Naruto use Chou oodama rasengan?
Could pain arc Naruto throw 3 rasenshurikens per sennin mode?
Could pain arc Naruto fuse with ma and pa?
Could pain arc Naruto enter SM almost instantly and while talking?

Answers:
Obviously not x5

Why exactly do you think Naruto can't use Chou Oodama Rasengan during Pain Arc? Jiraiya with imperfect sage mode did and Naruto did so in his mind IIRC when he used Chou Oodama Rasengan barrage. Sorry my knowledge on Naruto is pretty bad, I'm just asking questions for clarifications, not trying to start an argument or debate.

War arc SM Naruto is an entire tier above Pain arc SM Naruto.

I'd rank Pain arc SM Naruto at mid-high kage level while War arc SM Naruto at high kage level, agree?

Based on what is V1 Ei faster than the third raikage?ʻ
how does having more chakra than another person = outlasting them? Ei has more chakra, but if he uses things like V2 max shunshins and spams his RnY, heʻs not going to outlast the guy who not only has an enormous chakra pool himself, but has kyuubi healing, SM restoration powers, and increases his chakra reserves by adding natural energy to them.
Finally, why would naruto even throw FRS into Ei when Ei has to come to Naruto in order to attack him? Naruto doesnʻt even need the rasenshuriken, even a senpou rasengan would mess Ei up, anything above it like fuuton rasengan or oodama rasengan would outright kill Ei. Naruto just does the same thing he did to Eiʻs dad, or just shoves it right into Eiʻs fist instead of dodging. Or he could clone feint and blindside Ei with the rasengan.

I'd say V1 Ay is faster than V1 3rd Raikage based on Kimimaro in CS2 being slower but more durable. More durable body means more mass which means less speed for a given amount of energy. Assuming V1 lightning armour gives same amount of kinetic energy. Kinetic energy = 0.5*m*v^2 and if both Raikages get the same amount but 3rd has more mass, his speed will be less.

Anyway Naruto wins mid difficulty.

 

[LuckyMan]

Invisible man, why do you continue to push an argument you know is 100% false?
When we argued this, you ended up completely conceding this as you ended up being forced to ignore my entire argument. Bee in base overpowered V2 Ei. Bee w/ a partially transformed arm, caught V1 Eiʻs punch and didnʻt even budge. Bee got sent flying through the earth as a result of merely trying to stop the force of one of Hanʻs hits. Thereʻs no way you can argue that 1 tailed Hanʻs hits are not more powerful than V1 Eiʻs hits.

However, you have to assert an even more absurd point. You have to assert that not only does V1 Ei hit harder than Han, but his hits are several TIERS above 1 tailed Hanʻs since Naruto took Hanʻs hit w/ hardly any damage while you believe V1 Eiʻs hit would have taken Naruto out.

So no, there is literally no way that your translation can be true. If your scan was true, Ei would have blow Beeʻs hand off when bee tried to catch his strike, and Ei would have torn Beeʻs head off when their lariats clashed since 1 tailed Han is clearly >> Bee, and itʻs necessary for you to believe that V1 Ei >>> 1 tailed Han.

Stop being stubborn and concede this point that is clear to everyone and anyone who looks at the manga with any objectivity. The more you argue it, the more credibility you lose. If you want people to analyze the manga objectively and give your posts a fair shot, you have to do the same.

I ignored your argument after you said Han can replicate all Ays feats on a higher scale than he can all because of one inconclusive feat he showed. That is ridiculous.