[Discussion] Sage Mode and Replenishing Nature Chakra (Shadow Clones)

[JustAnotherNarutoFan]

There are two things which irked me for a while concerning Sage Mode.

How can Sage Mode even run out?

To enter Sage Mode you need to balance out your Normal and Nature Chakra so that both have similar levels. There is some sort of leeway in which this can work, because Jiraya couldn't do it perfectly but still enter Toad Sage Mode.

So what really made no sense to me is, how can Sage Mode just run out of Nature Chakra?

You can't run out of Natur Chakra, mainly because to be in Sage Mode you need to have the same amount of Nature Chakra as you have Basic Chakra. If there is an imbalance Sage Mode doesn't work in the first place!

This also would make Toad Sage Mode without the two Geezer Toads to stabilize your Nature Chakra pool really inconvenient, every time you don't use the same amount of Normal and Nature Chakra you would need to gather more Nature Chakra or else the Mode stops working?

How can the Nature Chakra from Clones help you enter Sage Mode?

The Nature Chakra Naruto gets from dispelling a clone should never be enough to enter Sage Mode!

Short Example:

Naruto has X Chakra and makes a Clone, now he has X/2 and the Clone has X/2

The Clone gathers X/2 Nature Chakra and enters Sage Mode.

Naruto dispells the Clone he now has X Basic Chakra and X/2 Nature Chakra

This doesn't seem very plausible. No matter what you do the Clone can only gather the same amount of Nature Chakra as he has Basic Chakra. Dispelling him returns both to Naruto, which means he always has more Basic than Nature Chakra.



Yeah I know both problems are quite nerdy, but still I will be happy to hear your tries to explain Kishimoto's laziness :devil:

 

[tatonation39]

There are two things which irked me for a while concerning Sage Mode.

How can Sage Mode even run out?

To enter Sage Mode you need to balance out your Normal and Nature Chakra so that both have similar levels. There is some sort of leeway in which this can work, because Jiraya couldn't do it perfectly but still enter Toad Sage Mode.

So what really made no sense to me is, how can Sage Mode just run out of Nature Chakra?

You can't run out of Natur Chakra, mainly because to be in Sage Mode you need to have the same amount of Nature Chakra as you have Basic Chakra. If there is an imbalance Sage Mode doesn't work in the first place!

This also would make Toad Sage Mode without the two Geezer Toads to stabilize your Nature Chakra pool really inconvenient, every time you don't use the same amount of Normal and Nature Chakra you would need to gather more Nature Chakra or else the Mode stops working?

How can the Nature Chakra from Clones help you enter Sage Mode?

The Nature Chakra Naruto gets from dispelling a clone should never be enough to enter Sage Mode!

Short Example:

Naruto has X Chakra and makes a Clone, now he has X/2 and the Clone has X/2

The Clone gathers X/2 Nature Chakra and enters Sage Mode.

Naruto dispells the Clone he now has X Basic Chakra and X/2 Nature Chakra

This doesn't seem very plausible. No matter what you do the Clone can only gather the same amount of Nature Chakra as he has Basic Chakra. Dispelling him returns both to Naruto, which means he always has more Basic than Nature Chakra.



Yeah I know both problems are quite nerdy, but still I will be happy to hear your tries to explain Kishimoto's laziness :devil:

Im not gonna lie you make sense there and fpr the explation rep up dude

 

[EVlL]

that's why i dont like math being used in any things, especially in manga. anyway still +rep for ya and your effort

 

[Liquid Snake]

well naruto couldnt control it that well at first so he ran out fast i havent seen him lose sm in a while

 

[TyrionUchiha]

Here's another thing that doesn't make sense. So say Naruto makes one clone to gather nature chakra, and since he split his chakra in half, the clone would have to gather twice as much nature chakra. But wouldn't that turn him into a toad statue like all the others that failed to get the right balance of nature chakra?

So he'd have to absorb a toad statue essentially to restore his own sage mode. :|

 

[JustAnotherNarutoFan]

Here's another thing that doesn't make sense. So say Naruto makes one clone to gather nature chakra, and since he split his chakra in half, the clone would have to gather twice as much nature chakra. But wouldn't that turn him into a toad statue like all the others that failed to get the right balance of nature chakra?

So he'd have to absorb a toad statue essentially to restore his own sage mode. :|

That's why I meant the clone can only gather as much chakra as he needs for perfect Sage Mode. Even if he could gather more how does the clone know how much current chakra Naruto has? Otherwise he could overload Naruto and turn him into a toad statue too.

 

[davidou]

The start is wrong , the end shall be too.

You said:"because to be in Sage Mode you need to have the same amount of Nature Chakra as you have Basic Chakra."

Give us a scan that says that and I'll believe you.

I understood that you need to mix the 3 energies with a perfect ratio , not that you need to have "in store" 1/3 physical , 1/3 spiritual and 1/3 nature.



Even with this being taken as a statement , you didn't point a problem.

Say naruto senin mode has x/2 of the 3 energies , his clone has x/2 of the physical and spiritual energies , 0 of nature.
When the clone has collected enough nature (x/2 with your statement) , he is full and has x/2 physical , x/2 spiritual and x/2 nature.

Naruto uses his x/2 energy with a hermit jutsu , now he is at 0 in the 3 energies.
When the clone comes back , naruto have all his energy , it's x/2 in the 3 energies.

 

[jiraiya nindo]

Your post is wrong (OP). The 3 energies need to be balanced. When the three energies are balanced, then naruto's chakra turned into sage chakra. The manga never states that normal chakra and sage chakra need to be balanced. Your normal chakra becomes sage chakra when the three energies (physical, spiritual, and natural) are balanced.

 

[Alfred Pennyworth]

Which part of the manga states one needs similar normal chakra and natural energy levels?

 

[JustAnotherNarutoFan]

Ok people are right it's a triangle balance of spirit, body and nature. Thought that doesn't weaken the basic argument. The numbers would still not work out.

Can be seen on Chapter 409, Page 11

 

[Harsh srivastava]

if kishi removes this balance stuff. theory completes

 

[Honord Sage]

Naruto now has all the Tail Beast in Him,the 10 Tail Juubi use Natural Energy so now all the Tail Beast who don't Move Gather Natural Energy for Naruto,so how is He going to run out?

 

[jiraiya nindo]

Ok people are right it's a triangle balance of spirit, body and nature. Thought that doesn't weaken the basic argument. The numbers would still not work out.

Can be seen on Chapter 409, Page 11

Well, I've been thinking about this and I don't think that naruto's clones are in sage mode. I think they are just gathering natural energy and sitting still. This would negate your whole mathematical function as it relates to your point. If the clone were giving naruto sage chakra, then you would be correct that the chakra wouldn't be enough, as the clone only has half the chakra of naruto (because kage bunshin equally splits your chakra). In chapter 433, the pain fight, it looks like the clones are meditating/being still but they don't look like they have the dark pigmentation around the eyes which is indicative of sage chakra. So, I would say that they are just collecting natural energy.

This means, that when naruto releases the clone, he doesn't have to worry about the sage chakra because all the clone gives to him is the natural energy it was collecting. When naruto receives the natural energy, all he has to do is balance it with his own spiritual and physical energies and that puts him back in sage mode.

 

[xInGoLFx]

Dös the chakra from the clone returns to the user if the clone is dissolved? What if you have 50% spiritual and 50% physical energy. That means 100% chakra. If you now enter sage mode you need to balance these to 33% each. This way you have space for 33% nature energy. Together you have 100% chakra again. The User just needs to adjust the components. That's what I think