Sage Kabuto vs. Gokage

[Murasame]

Look dude, I couldn't give a utter shit really about this damn topic, Gokage take this either way. In the Shinobi World, things don't work after theories. Kabuto loses this in my opinion, I couldn't care less about jutsus or counters.

Lol the words of someone who is defeated.. if you had won this debate you wouldn't be saying this most likely.

 

[miromiro]

Lol the words of someone who is defeated.. if you had won this debate you wouldn't be saying this most likely.

This debate is useless, we're arguing over the obvious, the Gokage winning that is. And what's your problem anyway, did anyone ask you anything?

 

[blazekev90]

Ay solos high diff

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Ay solos high diff

Interesting. How so?

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

In my personal opinion as admittedly a huge Kabuto fanboy (but a sensible one) that I think he can pull a very close win the cave. There are very few ninjas or combos who can defeat Kabuto in his tailor-made arena but take him out of the cave and the Hokages win medium difficulty, he'll get destroyed by all 5 Kage if they go as all-out as they did against Madara.

Cave seals the deal.

 

[blazekev90]

Interesting. How so?

I was preferrably referring towards the outside scenario

 

[Brother Numpsay]

In my personal opinion as admittedly a huge Kabuto fanboy (but a sensible one) that I think he can pull a very close win the cave. There are very few ninjas or combos who can defeat Kabuto in his tailor-made arena but take him out of the cave and the Hokages win medium difficulty, he'll get destroyed by all 5 Kage if they go as all-out as they did against Madara.

Cave seals the deal.

Sweet, now that I know your unbias, how exactly can the Gokages takes this mid diff outside?

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Sweet, now that I know your unbias, how exactly can the Gokages takes this mid diff outside?

I was preferrably referring towards the outside scenario

How outside?

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Sweet, now that I know your unbias, how exactly can the Gokages takes this mid diff outside?

It just seems too much at once. The Raikage can electrocute him when he does the Hozuki Hydrification, no real nature power that's any stronger than a standard earth style jutsu, gaara's sealing tech, Katsuyu will be useful if Tsunades got the guts to bring her out...I don't really see much in DSM Kabuto's arsenal capable of killing Katsuyu easily. He'll be tough to catch and White Rage is always an issue but idk, with 5 of them he may not even get the opening to do it yknow?

Not to mention they are in a huge rubble wasteland, where the cave was the tailor-made arena for Kabuto, this battlefield is basically one for Gaara and the Tsuchikage. It just seems a bit much.

(I don't really like debating competitively when my baby Kabutos involved, sorry i'm kinda rubbish :/)

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Look dude, I couldn't give a utter shit really about this damn topic, Gokage take this either way. In the Shinobi World, things don't work after theories. Kabuto loses this in my opinion, I couldn't care less about jutsus or counters.

Sorry but your opinion doesn't mean a thing in a debate. Those 'theories and facts' are the whole point of VS threads :')

 

[Brother Numpsay]

The Raikage can electrocute him when he does the Hozuki Hydrification, no real nature power that's any stronger than a standard earth style jutsu,

Theres a misconception when it comes to Kabuto body shed:

Spoiler

Suigetsu​

I cross out his name for a reason. Kabuto simply alternated his own version of he. Crossing out his name was basically signifying the difference between Suigetsu's from Kabuto:

My previous mention something about "fluids" and I was talking about "Suika no Jutsu". DO NOT CALL Kabuto's fluids "Suika no Jutsu". Lets read the context again [

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]. Kabuto said its ability to transform the body "INTO A LIQUID FORM". It was never stated what liquid form Kabuto uses. To understand the context as a whole, read what Kabuto said right after. "I use MY BODY FLUID <--- To perform it". Which means its something else. For all we known this liquid is unconductible, since not every liquid is conductible. For all we know the fluids can handle Amatersu heat. The next panel says, Kabuto researched and ALTERNATE his own version. Now to conclude this part is distinguishing "WATER" to Kabuto's "FLUIDS" the last context of Kabuto's source. "Dont you know him, too? it's Sugetsu. He (Sugetsu)<----- can transform into water...." That said Kabuto's Fuilds can work better then the houzuki clan, even countering it's weak points.

First there is a reason why Kabuto mention doing research and alternation from the liquid/hydrification. Kabuto knew the pros and the cons with Suika no Jutsu. This is why he had alternate it. The manga never said what kind of liquid form Kabuto uses (Although by the looks of it, it is very thick and also produces his fluid while keeping its skin state[

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], basically abnormal) , BUT by context he had to alter the jutsu to FIX the CONS. Well? What are the Cons for Suika No Jutsu? Lightening Release, and always needing water to drank, to keep themselves hydrated. These weaknesses do not apply to Kabuto at all. If you were to look at the scan where Kabuto was explaining his body shed version we know that the context also applied that the alternation is much better then the snake skin shed. That means that anything that snake skin shed, either can do the same or much better then normal shedding. An example would be Manda tanking Katon+Oil by simply shedding his skin to counter the effects. [

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]. Kabuto simply made sure to have this Liquid he altered to counter electricity and also enabling him to face off heating capacity.

To top it all off, some people claim that Kabuto using it doesn't work automatically. But in context Kabuto could also use this Jutsu at WILL[

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]. This example shows that he simply liquify his insides while keeping his external layer the same. Or when Kabuto's snake got his head chopped off and started converting into a liquid state [

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].

Second, theres a misconception with Kabuto strength:

Spoiler

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I have seen some comments in the base that only Toad Senjutsu shows "more evidence" that Strength boost is exclusive, but the fact is the Manga never implied that Sennin Mōdos have different Boost feats. During Naruto's training Fukasaku never excluded such a thing as he always implied natural energy in general, when speaking to Naruto. The only difference here is of course, the characteristics of entering this Mode. So the fact when you look at Naruto's training, this is what you can imply to what natural energy was able to do for Kabuto.

An example would be when Base Naruto had no such strength feat to lift up Giant boulders [

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] but as soon has he gathered natural energy he was able to perform this strength feat. [

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] This implies that natural energy is what enables the character to get such a feat.

As soon as Naruto mastered natural energy, he was able to block a Summoning monster's attack [

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] and even use his strength to throw one. [

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] Naruto also used natural energy to even pick up and slam the Kyūbi himself. [

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]

Kabuto has mastered Sennin Mōdo and Natural Energy so this applies to anyone who has mastered these this.

[/CENTER]

Now do you think Raikage strength is superior to SM users? If Do:

Spoiler

"The Addition" ​

Since Kabuto has access to Jirōbō's DNA he can also enable his strength, as long as he is exposed/present. Jirōbō's State 2 enabled him to have the strength to even lift up Chouji's Chō Baika no Jutsu. [

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][

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][

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][

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][

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] Depending on how much weight you think Chouji has, he is basically Summoning level of weight capacity.

Kabuto even noted that using the Curse Seal shouldn't be compared to a master of the art of a Sage. [

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] So having Jirōbō's DNA gatherdc with Sage Boost makes it a done deal that his strength makes him the most, physically strongest character in the series. Also, any physical contact with Jirōbō can even do this: [

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] Subjugating their opponet allows him to absorb chakra, much like the Sound ninja, Yoroi. [

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]

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Kabuto's Jirobo kept his KKG, ability to passively absorb chakra and Earth element combo. So even having an inferior Element, chakra absorbs backs it up.

-Ay has no counter to Kabutos Senpo:webs either.
-Sakon KGG can block and parry all of Ay's jutsu, in any location Ay attacks. Kabuto sense ability makes it a done deal [

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]. Kabuto can use Sakon ability to add twice or three times the orignal damage of his physical attacks via Senpo: Chakra Scapel [

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]

-Lightening Shell is not helping so basically Ay is outclass badly.

gaara's sealing tech,

You have to take consideration that all Gaara's moves come through Sand. Sand=Inorganic. Therefore all of Gaaras arsenals get control via useless against Kabuto

Katsuyu will be useful if Tsunades got the guts to bring her out...I don't really see much in DSM Kabuto's arsenal capable of killing Katsuyu easily.

Have you forgotten Kabuto has Manda II o.o

He'll be tough to catch and White Rage is always an issue but idk, with 5 of them he may not even get the opening to do it yknow?

He has plenty of evasion moves. And a uncounter Genjutsu (in their case) that can take them all out

Not to mention they are in a huge rubble wasteland, where the cave was the tailor-made arena for Kabuto, this battlefield is basically one for Gaara and the Tsuchikage. It just seems a bit much.

I beg to differ

(I don't really like debating competitively when my baby Kabutos involved, sorry i'm kinda rubbish :/)

Challenge yourself, you will learn more about Kabuto if you continue

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Have you forgotten Kabuto has Manda II o.o

Oh I didn't know that my bad. Jfc well if there's Manda then the country they all stand on is in trouble :S Kabuto wins if Manda isn't restricted. Crap if he just rode Manda there's not a single chance anyone is catching him other than maybe the Tsuchikage...

He has plenty of evasion moves. And a uncounter Genjutsu (in their case) that can take them all out
Challenge yourself, you will learn more about Kabuto if you continue

Great points btw

Maybe...it's just I know i'm not biased but I know i'll just get annoyed when the more lairy forumgoers start ripping on Kabuto, I much prefer Snake Cloak Kabuto's design and character over powers but hm...I dunno. Part 1 Kabuto is great fun to debate with

 

[Nattana]

Oh I didn't know that my bad. Jfc well if there's Manda then the country they all stand on is in trouble :S Kabuto wins if Manda isn't restricted. Crap if he just rode Manda there's not a single chance anyone is catching him other than maybe the Tsuchikage...

Great points btw

Maybe...it's just I know i'm not biased but I know i'll just get annoyed when the more lairy forumgoers start ripping on Kabuto, I much prefer Snake Cloak Kabuto's design and character over powers but hm...I dunno. Part 1 Kabuto is great fun to debate with

Also, keep in mind that Kabuto has in his arsenal another great aoe Genjutsu.
Temple of Nirvana requires just 1 hand seal and when used, would affect all Gokage.
Just looking at falling feathers results in a deep sleep. In manga we've seen that people skilled in Genjutsu can dispel it, but it requires from them to close their eyes, focus, make a hand seal and dispel it.

So Gokage would have 2 choces. To fall asleep in front of Kabuto or to close their eyes for a few seconds in front of Kabuto. Now guess what happens in any of these 2 scenarios.

 

[miromiro]

Sorry but your opinion doesn't mean a thing in a debate. Those 'theories and facts' are the whole point of VS threads :')

That's just an assumption, it isn't mentioned anywhere. Obviously my opinion doesn't mean a thing in a debate, since it's an opinion. Geez. My point was never to start a debate in first place.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Also, keep in mind that Kabuto has in his arsenal another great aoe Genjutsu.
Temple of Nirvana requires just 1 hand seal and when used, would affect all Gokage.
Just looking at falling feathers results in a deep sleep. In manga we've seen that people skilled in Genjutsu can dispel it, but it requires from them to close their eyes, focus, make a hand seal and dispel it.

So Gokage would have 2 choces. To fall asleep in front of Kabuto or to close their eyes for a few seconds in front of Kabuto. Now guess what happens in any of these 2 scenarios.

I guess so but seriously? Nirvana can't be counted as a worthwhile attack or even a distraction as it takes a long time to hit and can be broken out in a matter of 1-3 seconds. Manda II could totally strike in this time if it were successful but that's still just one out of 5.

Sakura broke out of it with ease, the Kage can shrug it off.

 

[Nattana]

I guess so but seriously? Nirvana can't be counted as a worthwhile attack or even a distraction as it takes a long time to hit and can be broken out in a matter of 1-3 seconds. Manda II could totally strike in this time if it were successful but that's still just one out of 5.

Sakura broke out of it with ease, the Kage can shrug it off.

All three: Kakashi, Gai and Sakura had to focus, close their eyes, make a hand sign and dispel it.

Spoiler

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Kage can't shrug it off. They have to followe the same steps else they will fall under Genjutsu effect - deep sleep.

At least 3 seconds of vulnerability is really much time when fighting against ones like Kabuto. IMO, this techinque is really underrated.

 

[Hafiz Dembos]

EjBlack, it seems you made this thread to just show case some of your former posts that you put so much effort into and probably did not get the response you expected. Don't be sad it always happens. By the way Gokage stomp kabuto but in order not to hurt your feelings- Kabuto beats the kages with no difficulty.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

All three: Kakashi, Gai and Sakura had to focus, close their eyes, make a hand sign and dispel it.

Spoiler

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Kage can't shrug it off. They have to followe the same steps else they will fall under Genjutsu effect - deep sleep.

At least 3 seconds of vulnerability is really much time when fighting against ones like Kabuto. IMO, this techinque is really underrated.

not when it takes so long to set up and take effect.

The Kage can probably run from it actually.

Manda is the real trump card here. It's his equivalent to PS Susanoo which is what finished the Gokage.

 

[YellowFang]

In scenario 1:
Kabuto mid-high diff...
In scenario 2:
Gokage mid-high diff...

 

[AGoodBoy]

Come on dude, you know the drill. Come with an argument. Since you point up one point, I will put up one point.

You said Gaara is all needed? Sorry to break it to you but Sand = get Muki Tensei, so that throws your whole argument here out the window.

Lmao. Well if that's your believe, I'll leave you to it.