Russian forces in Ukraine, international tension sparkles

cptenn94

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Re: Its time for the 3rd World War...

Yes... yes they are.



It's North Korea. IF they could do something, they would take back South Korea.

North korea if they tried anything, would be like takeing a toy knife to a sword fight.(or a toy gun to a missile fight)

They are pretty much a joke right now. They are not much of a threat.(they could become a threat though)

Iran Russia and China are the main threats currently.

My opinion though.
 

BlacLord™

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Re: Its time for the 3rd World War...

No, it can't and won't happen.

Some of the major world leaders may not be the brightest sparks, but they're old enough and mature enough to understand a full-scale World War would result in at least near-total human annihilation.

I think a lot of people fail to understand how much weaponry has advanced since the first half of the 20th Century.

Oh yes, countries can declare war but it won't get far, because it won't be like WW1/2's bog standard bombs, it will be atomic bombs.

Think Hiroshima and Nagasaki but instead of just two cities in that state, the entire world and it's population ravaged in a similar, but more powerful manner.
 

Fresco

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Re: Its time for the 3rd World War...

finally. america bout to get his ass whoopeds
By who? Russia? Their defense budget is substantially dwarfed by the US. Even though Russia's capabilities are probably 2nd or 3rd, that doesn't defeat the fact that there's a large gap between the U.S. and Russia in every regard.
Do i really care about america? no, they should just stfu up for a moment and not interfere in once bissnuzz
The UK and US are obligated to support Ukraine after they persuaded them to dispose of their nuclear capabilities. Ukraine's business is the US' business because of that. It would set a bad precedent if no country aids Ukraine if Russia were to do something. I'm not trying to warmonger, but the US is certainly in a rough spot. If the Afghanistan and Iraq wars were to have never happened, I highly doubt there would be such an anti-American sentiment in the world.
This is the thing with all these allegiances and hand-holding, all it takes is one event and every country is dragged into a 'war'.

Russia is a big immediate threat, just ask the nazis. China seem to be playing the long game in their inevitable route to world domination, they're on top of the economical food chain. North Korea seems to be a threat but nothing the US, the UK and their allies cannot handle.
China's economy is too dependent on the US and other countries. They'll never be at the top of any food chain, economically or militarily.

Also, nuclear weapons will probably never be used in a war again, in my opinion. The risk is just too great and every country knows that. Even North Korea.

I also doubt Russia will do much anyways.
 
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Aim64C

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World War isn't possible in this era, it would have to come to an stalemate very quickly.

Now that's a naive viewpoint.

And that's exactly why it can't happen. Governments have been lying to others about the amount of nuclear warheads for a long time, keeping secret stock; this is what ties most of the big countries into a sort of impasse that means war cannot go ahead, along with many other pacts.

Nuclear weapons are hardly a concern.

Even if our stockpiles were ten times what the estimates claim - the U.S. could survive the world's nuclear arsenal being launched at it. It'd sting a bit - but we could come out of it fighting.

The power of nuclear weapons has been grossly over-estimated through military history. When you actually get into the studies that the world's militaries have done, however - they are rather underwhelming strategic weapons.

The EMP phenomena is perhaps one of their most destructive aspects - but much of that was never much of an issue to begin with. The high-frequency EMP generated by the nuclear fission diffuses very quickly and most of the devices that would couple voltages high enough to destroy solid state junctions would be destroyed in the thermal radiation or in the concussion.

The low-frequency EMP generated by strategic-yield warheads that is supposed to create DC-like currents that burn out relay stations simply won't, because of the fail-safes most countries have implemented into their power grids. Further - the issue was really only present on the exceptionally long power lines used in the Siberian Tundra during Russian tests. The U.S. grid, even with its large geographic regions, doesn't couple that type of electromagnetic field as well, so the effect is less pronounced.

The radiation is a mild concern - but it's survivable.

The real concern is biological weapons. Those offer exceptional bang for the buck and can be self-sustaining as a normal infection. Some of the research done back in the early days suggested that even common viruses could be 'weaponized' in their distribution and exposure. The common flu, for example, could become highly lethal if you were to package and dispense the virus properly - allowing it to enter the body in ways that it doesn't normally enter the body, or to infect tissues directly that it normally has to infect indirectly.

I can mail order the stuff to make bio-weapons with. The most difficult device to obtain is a bioreactor - but those can be made by enterprising individuals with a little bit of money and moxy. They are well within the reach of governments.

Aerosols are best dispensed at night where the particles suspend better in the cool air and have a more consistent drift pattern (less turbulence). Crucially, the utlraviolet from the sun is not present - which will destroy most viruses within a few minutes of exposure. A kilogram of prepared virus impregnated substrate can infect thousands of square miles.

Then you figure that we know for a fact that Russia was working on weaponizing smallpox back in the 80s (you know, after it was 'annihilated.') There are thousands of metric tons of the stuff that was created.... and no one seems to know where it went.

Even if war could take place, nuclear weapons would be one of the first weapons to turn to on all sides and the consequences will make WW1 and WW2 look like child's play.

Nuclear assets will be some of the first things to be taken out.

The only major nuclear players are the U.S. and Russia. The U.S. is geographically impractical for any of the major players to invade - so that takes our nuclear weapons off of the playing field, for the most part. A few tactical nukes become an option - but there's just no reason for us to start lobbing nukes.

Russia might have a few to shoot at others, once they actually find their nukes.

China is the only other player worth mentioning (though the UK and France have some - they are about as likely as us to use them), and they have theirs trained on India (and India has theirs trained on China). Neither country has a nuclear arsenal worth factoring in against a country like the U.S. - hurricanes cause more damage than China could ever cause with its entire nuclear arsenal.

You'll find that humans are like cockroaches. Us and our colonies are far harder to get rid of than the advertisements make it appear.

But it's not only nuclear weaponry any more; VX gas and the like.

Chemical weapons are nasty - but hardly a real concern.

There's a huge amount of investment that goes into creating chemical weapons that lose their potency very quickly. They are arguably less cost-effective than conventional weapons (though they do leave infrastructure intact).

Chemical weapons just diffuse too quickly for them to be of much effect. The only advantage they offer over bioweapons is a quicker result - but a bioweapon can do far more than any chemical agent can do.

With enough balls and preparation, you can use them amidst your own troops, vaccinate/treat them, and then let the enemies die (or take high value prisoners before treating and rehabbing them). Bioweapons are far more useful in the long run.
 

HiraishinFTG

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Re: Its time for the 3rd World War...

90% of the kids posting on here or anticipating WWIII know virtually nothing about geopolitics. It just feels good to them to act like they know what's coming and they're above it all. With modern day chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, the United States will not go to war with Russia or China barring an invasion of US or maybe British soil. Nothing else is worth it. But it sure makes you feel smart to predict WWIII based off a security crisis in Crimea (which considers itself Russia) and North Korea being crazy. Believe me, the US could annihilate North Korea if it attacked us, and China wouldn't help them. And we won't preemptive strike them because they affect virtually nothing.

People need to see that the greatest threat to modern day peace and security is sectarian - ethnic and religious - violence within states, not a inter-state WWIII scenario. Even Ukraine's problem can be understood in terms of the ethnic and identity crisis of different groups in the country.
 

Aim64C

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Re: BREAKING!! USA asks for deployment of UN in Ukraine!!

the US isn't asking for troops on the ground just observers to assess the situation

And we all know how that goes.

This is gong to play out like Sarajevo, at this rate. That was a cluster**** that lasted for years.

We either need to commit - fight and die beside these people... or just stay the hell out of it. This idea that we can win ideological disputes through political brokering of power accomplishes nothing.
 
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YokoKurama

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Re: BREAKING!! USA asks for deployment of UN in Ukraine!!

And we all know how that goes.

This is gong to play out like Sarajevo, at this rate. That was a cluster**** that lasted for years.

We either need to commit - fight and die beside these people... or just stay the hell out of it. This idea that we can win ideological disputes through political brokering of power accomplishes nothing.

I agree with you. My husband follows the world news a lot and shares with me all the information. He has been following stories on Russia closely. Nothing good can come from this especially if Russia attacks or vice versa.
 

vasu 32

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Re: BREAKING!! USA asks for deployment of UN in Ukraine!!

Well the news basically said ,in terms of nb,that they're gonna sent troups their to observe the situation and gonna try TNJ RUSSIA.

OT- What the hell happened to all kids who wanted a real war? well u may get it.
 

Wabbit

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Re: BREAKING!! USA asks for deployment of UN in Ukraine!!

Russia is preparing invasion


WE WILL GET NEW CALL OF DUTY
 
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TheAncientCenturion

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Re: BREAKING!! USA asks for deployment of UN in Ukraine!!

I don't think this would turn into a military conflict right away... But, if that does happen...

Who else wants to enroll in the army :|?
 

Seventh Sama

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Re: BREAKING!! USA asks for deployment of UN in Ukraine!!

What if the U.S starts drafting again?...
in that case, Australia here i come :cool:
 

HiraishinFTG

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Re: BREAKING!! USA asks for deployment of UN in Ukraine!!

Guys... it's a UN OBSERVER team. Not threatening. Oh, and just cause the US called for it, doesn't mean it will happen. Russia and China will veto any action like that so the point is moot.
 

Jin Hayami

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First of all WW3 ain't happening. Can't believe you guys are so worked up over this. In the end the all mighty dollar is what keeps the lead from flying and guess what? China loses a shit ton of money in trade if they take either side which they would be forced to do. Diplomatic pressure from around the world forces stalemate and we both impose stupid embargos or agreements that nobody cares about anyway. Even if it did happen. Nukes are never going to see the light of day. They sit in their silos as an empty threat simply because nobody who is sane is willing to annihilate everything we've ever known to exist.

However hypothetically if it did happen...
Where a war is fought is decided entirely by two factors. Air Force and Navy. As much as it pains me to give them credit the chair force and the squids solo any possible invasion force coming into our territory.
U.S. Navy has 10 Nimitz Class super carriers which are the supreme force in the ocean. Building 10 Gerald R. Ford Class super carriers.
Russia has 1. Building a second.
U.S. Air Force has 2025 jets including the only fifth generation fighter the F-22.
Russia has 1185. They are still testing their fifth generation fighter the PAK FA.
Look up the record of the F-15 the current work horse of the U.S. over 100 dog fight victories. 0 losses.

What does all this equate too? Land war in Russia.
Russia has the civilian numbers and a war would definitely increase the size of its army but right now the U.S. has about 400,000 more military personnel than they do.
Then you have to look at who all else is likely to join in.
U.S. has pretty much all of NATO. Especially the Brits and SK if the North sides with Russia. I love those tea drinking sons of *****s.
Russia has N.K. who actually have a larger military than they do unfortunately their equipment and training is entirely antiquated and they have no combat experience outside of the Korean Peninsula.
America has been at war for thirteen years. The guys that signed up the day after 9/11 are seven years away from retirement. Lots of deployments and lots of real world combat experience in both urban and wild terrain.
Russia in the same time frame has had a couple of terrorist situations some of which were simply handled by police and the war with Georgia.

Oh and did I mention the drones? They're pretty badass. America has about 700. That literally blows any other countries inventory out of the water.

U.S. Solos. Medium diff.

People may not like the U.S. but there is one thing that it has always done right and that is wield the big stick.
 
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WoldOfFingo

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First of all WW3 ain't happening. Can't believe you guys are so worked up over this. In the end the all mighty dollar is what keeps the lead from flying and guess what? China loses a shit ton of money in trade if they take either side which they would be forced to do. Diplomatic pressure from around the world forces stalemate and we both impose stupid embargos or agreements that nobody cares about anyway. Even if it did happen. Nukes are never going to see the light of day. They sit in their silos as an empty threat simply because nobody who is sane is willing to annihilate everything we've ever known to exist.

However hypothetically if it did happen...
Where a war is fought is decided entirely by two factors. Air Force and Navy. As much as it pains me to give them credit the chair force and the squids solo any possible invasion force coming into our territory.
U.S. Navy has 10 Nimitz Class super carriers which are the supreme force in the ocean. Building 10 Gerald R. Ford Class super carriers.
Russia has 1. Building a second.
U.S. Air Force has 2025 jets including the only fifth generation fighter the F-22.
Russia has 1185. They are still testing their fifth generation fighter the PAK FA.
Look up the record of the F-15 the current work horse of the U.S. over 100 dog fight victories. 0 losses.

What does all this equate too? Land war in Russia.
Russia has the civilian numbers and a war would definitely increase the size of its army but right now the U.S. has about 400,000 more military personnel than they do.
Then you have to look at who all else is likely to join in.
U.S. has pretty much all of NATO. Especially the Brits and SK if the North sides with Russia. I love those tea drinking sons of *****s.
Russia has N.K. who actually have a larger military than they do unfortunately their equipment and training is entirely antiquated and they have no combat experience outside of the Korean Peninsula.
America has been at war for thirteen years. The guys that signed up the day after 9/11 are seven years away from retirement. Lots of deployments and lots of real world combat experience in both urban and wild terrain.
Russia in the same time frame has had a couple of terrorist situations some of which were simply handled by police and the war with Georgia.

Oh and did I mention the drones? They're pretty badass. America has about 700. That literally blows any other countries inventory out of the water.

U.S. Solos. Medium diff.

People may not like the U.S. but there is one thing that it has always done right and that is wield the big stick.

Fortunately*

I actually never disliked America, even though some things they done the last 30 years are controversial.
Without USA I think the world would be a less safer place ripe to be overrun by tirants and the likes
 

Wabbit

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First of all WW3 ain't happening. Can't believe you guys are so worked up over this. In the end the all mighty dollar is what keeps the lead from flying and guess what? China loses a shit ton of money in trade if they take either side which they would be forced to do. Diplomatic pressure from around the world forces stalemate and we both impose stupid embargos or agreements that nobody cares about anyway. Even if it did happen.Nukes are never going to see the light of day. They sit in their silos as an empty threat simply because nobody who is sane is willing to annihilate everything we've ever known to exist.
However hypothetically if it did happen...
Where a war is fought is decided entirely by two factors. Air Force and Navy. As much as it pains me to give them credit the chair force and the squids solo any possible invasion force coming into our territory.
U.S. Navy has 10 Nimitz Class super carriers which are the supreme force in the ocean. Building 10 Gerald R. Ford Class super carriers.
Russia has 1. Building a second.
U.S. Air Force has 2025 jets including the only fifth generation fighter the F-22.
Russia has 1185. They are still testing their fifth generation fighter the PAK FA.
Look up the record of the F-15 the current work horse of the U.S. over 100 dog fight victories. 0 losses.

What does all this equate too? Land war in Russia.
Russia has the civilian numbers and a war would definitely increase the size of its army but right now the U.S. has about 400,000 more military personnel than they do.
Then you have to look at who all else is likely to join in.
U.S. has pretty much all of NATO. Especially the Brits and SK if the North sides with Russia. I love those tea drinking sons of *****s.
Russia has N.K. who actually have a larger military than they do unfortunately their equipment and training is entirely antiquated and they have no combat experience outside of the Korean Peninsula.
America has been at war for thirteen years. The guys that signed up the day after 9/11 are seven years away from retirement. Lots of deployments and lots of real world combat experience in both urban and wild terrain.
Russia in the same time frame has had a couple of terrorist situations some of which were simply handled by police and the war with Georgia.

Oh and did I mention the drones? They're pretty badass. America has about 700. That literally blows any other countries inventory out of the water.

U.S. Solos. Medium diff.

People may not like the U.S. but there is one thing that it has always done right and that is wield the big stick.

As you said US is the only force in the world that can deploy its forces anywhere it wants to.if US and its NATO allies both starts to invade Russia with their superior navy and airforce I dnt think they will keep calm and watch anhilation. They know it too. Thats why they will use nukes. Thats the only thing they can do.They deployed Ikander missiles as soon as they can after US deployed missile defense shield in Europe..
 

BlacLord™

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Now that's a naive viewpoint.

The only naïve one is you, how anyone can be so ignorant isn't even funny.

You do know that the US isn't the only country in the world? The UK can't afford a World War economy wise or in regards to the population. And they would have to get involved with the situation because of the Budapest Memorandum.

There's 63 million people in the UK, and they share a very small landmass. A WWIII would ruin the country completely.

You've got the simplistic mindset that everything is the same in comparison to WWII, it's not. Global policies are far different, the latter of which tie in with global conflicts and make them implausible.

I never expected much from a government lackey anyway, but what you brought to the table was unsound to say the least. Apparently people's lives are of little concern to you, describing extensive destruction as a "sting". Good God, you remind me of the people at the start of WW1, blind and naïve to what was to come.
 

Jin Hayami

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As you said US is the only force in the world that can deploy its forces anywhere it wants to.if US and its NATO allies both starts to invade Russia with their superior navy and airforce I dnt think they will keep calm and watch anhilation. They know it too. Thats why they will use nukes. Thats the only thing they can do.They deployed Ikander missiles as soon as they can after US deployed missile defense shield in Europe..

Here's the thing though. They wouldn't be facing annihilation. People don't run scorched earth campaigns anymore. We wouldn't be rolling through and killing every Russian citizen we see just eliminating military targets. They would be facing a regime change. That's it. What happens whenever two countries go to war nowadays? The winner replaces the old government with one modeled after its own. Since Russian and American governments are already fairly similar that just means that Putin and his supporters would end up in jail or executed depending on some legal variables. No one man has the authority to launch nukes. A group decision is required and they would be the absolute last resort to take down an enemy cleansing their country from the earth. Not happening. Ever. Nukes are a waste of time and money.
 

Wabbit

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Here's the thing though. They wouldn't be facing annihilation. People don't run scorched earth campaigns anymore. We wouldn't be rolling through and killing every Russian citizen we see just eliminating military targets. They would be facing a regime change. That's it. What happens whenever two countries go to war nowadays? The winner replaces the old government with one modeled after its own. Since Russian and American governments are already fairly similar that just means that Putin and his supporters would end up in jail or executed depending on some legal variables. No one man has the authority to launch nukes. A group decision is required and they would be the absolute last resort to take down an enemy cleansing their country from the earth. Not happening. Ever. Nukes are a waste of time and money.

Russia is not Iraq or any 3rd world country.you are underestimating unless if US can do a Ukrain like situation in Russia.If you try to attack their bases,especially in tense situation like this, they could do a pre-emptive strike.US is always alert on with thousands of warheads with ICBMs SLBMs and so does Russia,and semiautonomous launch officers and both have systems to retaliate,if one attacks another. Nukes arent waste of time.Presence of nuclear deterrence was protecting both countries from fighting directly each other.
 

Jin Hayami

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Russia is not Iraq or any 3rd world country.you are underestimating unless if US can do a Ukrain like situation in Russia.If you try to attack their bases,especially in tense situation like this, they could do a pre-emptive strike.US is always alert on with thousands of warheads with ICBMs SLBMs and so does Russia,and semiautonomous launch officers and both have systems to retaliate,if one attacks another. Nukes arent waste of time.Presence of nuclear deterrence was protecting both countries from fighting directly each other.

English obviously isn't your first language and I'm having a bit of a problem understanding the Ukraine situation you were talking about. Please elaborate.
A conventional war would have to be fought before anyone would even consider firing nukes. Honestly there probably wouldn't even be an invasion of Russia. Just U.S. and Coalition Forces chasing them out of the Ukraine and hitting them with sanctions and trade embargoes. Much like Iraq in the Gulf War.
You underestimate humanities general desire for survival. Nobody wins in a nuclear fallout. Conventional warfare would be the superior and only practical alternative for all sides.
Nukes are a waste of time. Humanity finally realized Nobels dream of creating a weapon so terrifyingly destructive nobody would want to use it. Since both countries have it neither can use it without being obliterated. That doesn't mean a war can't be fought.
 

Aim64C

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The only naïve one is you, how anyone can be so ignorant isn't even funny.

You're opening your mouth so big, here, that your foot is just bound to get in there, somehow.

You do know that the US isn't the only country in the world? The UK can't afford a World War economy wise or in regards to the population. And they would have to get involved with the situation because of the Budapest Memorandum.

So... if the UK decides not to get involved, some divine light shines down upon them and begins burning holes in their skin until they do get involved?

What force, aside from honor, compels the UK to take action?

Economies are not made healthy by peace or stagnation. Economies are born from the struggle to supply new and ever-changing demands. Large companies wax when they gain the majority market share through refined processes, and wain when a smaller company develops a product or process that the larger company cannot economically re-tool for. The large company often splits into smaller independent businesses that broker their lines and services outside of the original company.

There is only the free market.

The current economic slow-down? Entirely manufactured (not necessarily intentionally). Government made promises that it does not have the power to keep. People became stagnant and expect supplies to be delivered without the labor to produce it.

Wars are powerful motivators. Governments relax regulatory constraints, people realize they can provide a product or service without going to jail for attempting to do so, and everyone profits in the end.

Of course - under a central bank, no one ever wins but those who have dibs on the currency before it is soaked up by inflation.

There's 63 million people in the UK, and they share a very small landmass. A WWIII would ruin the country completely.

That land mass is easier to defend - particularly concerning ballistic missile shielding. Even so - after the horrors of The Great War, many believed another world war with the advances made through the 30s would destroy Britain.

You're a hardier bunch than you give yourselves credit for.

You've got the simplistic mindset that everything is the same in comparison to WWII, it's not. Global policies are far different, the latter of which tie in with global conflicts and make them implausible.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Please, tell me all of what has changed since World War II.

The key factor that has changed is how rapidly forces can deploy.

I never expected much from a government lackey anyway, but what you brought to the table was unsound to say the least. Apparently people's lives are of little concern to you, describing extensive destruction as a "sting". Good God, you remind me of the people at the start of WW1, blind and naïve to what was to come.

You simply prattle on about how World War III 'can't' happen, how everything has changed, how I am naive and know nothing, etc.

Bluntly - who the **** are you?

You obviously aren't anyone with a clue about my standpoint on my government - which puts you in the ill-informed category around here.

You insist that World War III can't happen.

What's changed about people since World War II?

Did you learn all of the lessons of your parents, grandparents, and great grandparents by some kind of mystical genetic osmosis? No. You read about it and thought you understood what it meant.

An individual can learn from his or her own experiences, smart individuals can learn from watching others, and exceptionally wise individuals can learn from accounts of history. People, on the other hand, do not.

For whatever strange reason, the world has always seen fit to involve itself in the wars and affairs of the Balkans. Of course - the major powers find it in their hearts to somehow blame the Balkan populations for it (because they made us get involved in their goings-ons... they came over here and ... wait a minute...)

To deny the possibility of escalation is foolishly naive. History tells us that, time and time again, the world will stick its nose into the region.

If anything - world wars under our current system will be -worse- than they ever were. They will be fought across countries that do not have the military standing to stand independently as the world basically becomes one giant semi-proxy war for influence. Because of the perception of nuclear warfare and because of the financial damage it can cause - the nuclear powers will largely avoid direct attacks and invasions. Strikes and raids may be made from time to time in order to disrupt industry and infrastructure - but much of it will be tug-of-war over sprawling geographies.

Why continue it? Because "they" will get the upper hand. Further - spending on wars is far less detrimental to an economy than spending on entitlements. When you have to show up to the bomb factory to get your healthcare - or learn how to patch holes in people to keep them from bleeding out in order to have free shelter - you're at least getting some return on what would otherwise be money thrown into a hole.

Nothing rallies people to war quite like an ideological dispute. Further, there are few things politicians will agree upon unless it allows them to have control over something. Thus, war is the rule rather than the exception in human societies.
 
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