[Suggestion] RP Suggestion

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Vincent

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I did consider something like this with the changes being made to the teaching system. But as Caliburn pointed out, members have a hard enough time accepting results at present, moaning about sensei who take battle tests. I would only see this increasing if non sensei were allowed to conduct tests.
Conducting a test does not simply require you know the bio that the testee is using. It requires the ability to plan a whole battle out creating scenarios for the testee to show their skill. You cannot simply fight them, you have to plan deliberate loopholes into moves that if the testee is skillful and knowledgeable in the bio they're testing for, can exploit and form offence of their own. You also have to find the right balance of being offensive and pushing the member, and sitting back and letting them show offence.
I do not mean to offend anyone, but even most sensei struggle with this. So the chances of us allowing untested members to conduct these tests is slim to none.
 
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Erzo

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I did consider something like this with the changes being made to the teaching system. But as Caliburn pointed out, members have a hard enough time accepting results at present, moaning about sensei who take battle tests. I would only see this increasing if non sensei were allowed to conduct tests.
Conducting a test does not simply require you know the bio that the testee is using. It requires the ability to plan a whole battle out creating scenarios for the testee to show their skill. You cannot simply fight them, you have to plan deliberate loopholes into moves that if the testee is skillful and knowledgeable in the bio they're testing for, can exploit and form offence of their own. You also have to find the right balance of being offensive and pushing the member, and sitting back and letting them show offence.
I do not mean to offend anyone, but even most sensei struggle with this. So the chances of us allowing untested members to conduct these tests is slim to none.
That's a fair comment.

I don't mean to offend anyone either, but if even most senseis struggle with this, why not give those who aren't senseis but capable of doing what you described, a chance? Remember they'd be tested first, maybe in the test they do, they'd be checked on whether they could pressure someone properly or not?

I haven't really thought out how the test should be done yet, but if you're even remotely interested in the idea, I could try come up with something.
 

-Broly-

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I did consider something like this with the changes being made to the teaching system. But as Caliburn pointed out, members have a hard enough time accepting results at present, moaning about sensei who take battle tests. I would only see this increasing if non sensei were allowed to conduct tests.
Conducting a test does not simply require you know the bio that the testee is using. It requires the ability to plan a whole battle out creating scenarios for the testee to show their skill. You cannot simply fight them, you have to plan deliberate loopholes into moves that if the testee is skillful and knowledgeable in the bio they're testing for, can exploit and form offence of their own. You also have to find the right balance of being offensive and pushing the member, and sitting back and letting them show offence.
I do not mean to offend anyone, but even most sensei struggle with this. So the chances of us allowing untested members to conduct these tests is slim to none.
From my perspective, the battling aspect of the sensei test has been highly diluted. The battling skill of recent members who have passed the sensei test simply pale in comparison to those that have passed in the past. This is an observation based on multiple sensei tests as well as some of those that have passed's other battles. So it is understandable that some of them are unable to plan a fight correctly. Nonetheless, as far as the members not accepting results, I actually haven't seen much of this. The only time an incident like this comes to mind is when there has been conflicting reasons for passing and failing. But for many non sensei members, a battle test shouldn't be that of a task. Perhaps allow an untested member to conduct a low level test? If the results arent up to par simply rescind the test and allow a do over
 

Vincent

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From my perspective, the battling aspect of the sensei test has been highly diluted. The battling skill of recent members who have passed the sensei test simply pale in comparison to those that have passed in the past. This is an observation based on multiple sensei tests as well as some of those that have passed's other battles. So it is understandable that some of them are unable to plan a fight correctly. Nonetheless, as far as the members not accepting results, I actually haven't seen much of this. The only time an incident like this comes to mind is when there has been conflicting reasons for passing and failing. But for many non sensei members, a battle test shouldn't be that of a task. Perhaps allow an untested member to conduct a low level test? If the results arent up to par simply rescind the test and allow a do over
In regards to the not accepting results. You normal members dont see it, but I guess thats the point of it. In regards to your point with senseis Yes standards have dropped, but that is due to the overall quality of rper on nb declining. If I were to hold the current generation to the standards of 2010-2011 there would barely be any sensei at all. I am trying to focus on having active teachers. The battle test area has been suffering for years, this idea may fix it, but also may make it worse. Like I said I have been considering this myself, but at the present I cant think of enough members that are active and suitable. If anyone feels that they have the skill to conduct tests but dont want to have to teach, by all means, contact me, if I get enough support for this idea I might try and implement it.

On a side note, please edit your signature and avatar, they are both bound to instigate trouble and I think everyone could do without the headache.
 

Erzo

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In regards to the not accepting results. You normal members dont see it, but I guess thats the point of it. In regards to your point with senseis Yes standards have dropped, but that is due to the overall quality of rper on nb declining. If I were to hold the current generation to the standards of 2010-2011 there would barely be any sensei at all. I am trying to focus on having active teachers. The battle test area has been suffering for years, this idea may fix it, but also may make it worse. Like I said I have been considering this myself, but at the present I cant think of enough members that are active and suitable. If anyone feels that they have the skill to conduct tests but dont want to have to teach, by all means, contact me, if I get enough support for this idea I might try and implement it.

On a side note, please edit your signature and avatar, they are both bound to instigate trouble and I think everyone could do without the headache.
I'm glad you're open to actually trying this, but can we not do it the other way round?

As in, put the idea into action, make the threads necessary where people can apply to be able to proctor tests first, so that once it's all official those people who may have not seen this thread, or may not be around right now can see and apply?
 

Vincent

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I'm glad you're open to actually trying this, but can we not do it the other way round?

As in, put the idea into action, make the threads necessary where people can apply to be able to proctor tests first, so that once it's all official those people who may have not seen this thread, or may not be around right now can see and apply?
Mainly as I would have to run it past caliburn, and then make rules for this, which is a pain I'd rather avoid unless there is enough people to make it workable
 

Erzo

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Mainly as I would have to run it past caliburn, and then make rules for this, which is a pain I'd rather avoid unless there is enough people to make it workable
I can think of several people who would apply for this, so if really needed, I can ask them to apply? But I feel as though more people will apply for it with hopes of getting approved once it has become official.
 

Naruto.

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Nice suggestion. For a start, senpais can start proctoring tests, as they are more than a normal RP'er. They were made senpai for a reason. >_>
However, as Vincent said, the battle testee needs to plan the battle beforehand in a very clever manner.
I think there could be a test for choosing a proctor, and capable members, could be chosen. Questions could be asked, "like what would you do in this situation" "How would you plan this battle beforehand for this specific test", etc. Former senseis and senpais would be good proctors too, I guess.
 

Gèckö

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Nice suggestion. For a start, senpais can start proctoring tests, as they are more than a normal RP'er. They were made senpai for a reason. >_>
However, as Vincent said, the battle testee needs to plan the battle beforehand in a very clever manner.
I think there could be a test for choosing a proctor, and capable members, could be chosen. Questions could be asked, "like what would you do in this situation" "How would you plan this battle beforehand for this specific test", etc. Former senseis and senpais would be good proctors too, I guess.
Nope U_U

Senpai proves that a sensei finds you fit to teach under him/her. Teaching wise you seem qualified, not battle wise. Which is the major difference between senpai and sensei. They take a test to get their name. Senpai don't, thus they don't have the accolades to proctor a battle test. The ideas broly and erzo made seem to be the best option.
 

Scorps

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You guys know which was the main problem that lead to a downfall of the teaching system? Senpais. Not how they were originally intended but in what they eventually became. Senpais meant that you didn't need an orange name to teach. You didn't need to pass a skill test. You didn't need anything more than simply knowing a sensei, some of which inactive and who didn't oversee the trainings or the result of that. Not only that but it also devalued the sensei name. It took away most of its "glamour" or level. Now, teaching was not sensei exclusive.

By adding the permission that some people who aren't sensei can proctor battle tests you are once more taking a huge chunk out of the sensei name. Its the same deal applied to something that is sensei bound at the moment. And note that its sensei bound only because mods cannot take all battle tests, as that would be the preferable situation. It becomes so that no one will ever want to be a sensei. You only have a hassle, you don't get anything in return and worse, people without a sensei title do the same as you and even have the same level of "say" in battles and etc. It lowers the weight, once again, that the sensei title should have.

Honestly, I think that we should have more things bound to the senseis and bound to an activity quota of training. This way, more people would apply for senseiship and more people would actually stay a sensei once they get to that level. But thats my opinion and I'm fairly sure its completely and utterly not viable.

When I finished college years ago, one of my teachers said something that I'll never forget. You see, many of my colleagues wanted to apply for unpaid internships in hospitals as that was a trend at the time. Hospitals used to lure people into accepting to work for free with the supposed premise that if they'd do good, they'd eventually get the job. My teacher told us "Never perform your profession without being hired and having the title. If you do it, no one will ever feel the need to hire you and the profession will slowly die". And its true. If everyone worked for free in the hospitals, why would they feel the need to hire people? The job would get done just the same. And here its the same thing. The more things you take away from senseis, the less value a sensei title has and that only fuels the issue, not solve it. Personally, the solution would be to make the position that much more important and needed, not the other way around. Perhaps even giving old senseis their title back if they, instead of a training quota, filled in a test quota, considering them to be senior senseis off course. Or some variation of that. But never to take away and give such a duty to non senseis. I don't agree with it.

I know some people who were senseis and conducted tons of battle tests who are more than capable of conducting tests, even if they aren't currently holding the sensei title. However, I know only of 2 in this situation. As of other members who consider themselves capable of conducting tests, I could piece together a few through the replies that clearly think they are capable of that. However, its funny that most of them haven't passed a single battle test or are actually that good to begin with.

In the end, this is another variation of the "I'm so good, I'm so skilled, I could do a better job in this or that than anyone who has a higher position in the RP than me". It happens with CJ checks, battle checks, battle tests, canon making, etc. But thats not 100% the truth. Are there one or two members who could be picked to have the permission to proctor some tests when no one else is available for it? Members who were once sensei? Yes. Are they enough to actually make a difference in the current system to a point where some new "senpai of tests" position needs to be created? No. Not in my opinion.

And the proposition itself wouldn't resolve the core issue which is that people in the RP know less and less about it as time goes by. People have the 5 basic elements, nin, gen and tai mastered and still if you ask them what is chakra or what is ninjutsu or what are the two core principles of ninjutsu, etc still can't reply correctly. I mean, hell, not long ago I saw a senior member, supposedly a good rpear, a fear of the RP and what not, say that Taijutsu doesn't require chakra because Lee didn't have chakra as he couldn't use ninjutsu. O____________________O I mean, seriously?? Taijutsu uses chakra...I just doesn't require you to focus and mold chakra. But it uses chakra. Otherwise, what would opening the EIG do? Some pretty green flames and a dramatic "woosh" all around you? The core problem with tests, teaching system and battles, including the NW btw, is an overall lack of skill and knowledge.

Perhaps its our fault as the RP evolved as the ages of those in its leadership evolved thus becoming more complex, harder, more perfected as we also got more adult, more mature. There was a much more increased focused on details and all minor conditions and descriptions rather than a focus on the broader picture of each fight, each move. Things got dissected instead of enjoyed. Perhaps the way the RP was before was better: "I activate MS, I use Amaterasu, I win" perhaps was the way to go. And the evolution of the member pool of the RP also contributed for this. Members used to respect the older ones, the ones with more skill and power and aim to be like them, to grow, to better themselves and they strived to actually achieve that level. Now members strive to destroy that level, to destroy the skill and power of others rather than trying to simply become better themselves. Perhaps its a generational thing. Cultural. Dunno. It exists and that shift was very noticeable. Very very noticeable. And I'm not talking about complaints about one oped custom or the mods. That existed ever since the RP started. Thats not new. Its ridiculous, stupid, pathetic and infantile but there is nothing one can do about it. It hurts the community more than anyone knows, but no one cares. Its a destructive atitude just for the sake of destroying. Without thinking of consequences and without a real reason. I'm takling about the one on one interaction of each member with each other. The fight threads and how people try to win. The low strategies people use to try and get training or to advance in training. The whole skype/IRC thing and how it has hurt the community. But the truth is, regardless of its origins, the RP faces this problem. Most members don't know the rules or care about it. Most don't understand the Time Frame we use. Most think they can simply say "I dodge" a technique in a passive manner. Or that Genjutsu can be seen "coming your way". And endless more variations of the same type of issue. And when I say rules, I don't mean the Global Rules of NB. Thats beyond this point. I mean the character, ability, etc rules and the fighting rules we use. I think 80% of the current active Rpears doesn't understand the RP fully. Not even partially. And having this type of suggestions implemented, for me, only worsens the issue.

But thats my opinion. I'm not in charge of neither of those areas anymore so its just an opinion as a sensei and rpear mostly.
 

Edward

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To be fair, most senpais are more active then their sensei, if you choose to take those out, training would be such a long proccess..-.
 

Luther

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Battle test conducting is a right which sensei are entitled to and a right which is fully deserved, senseiship is arguably the highest pinnacle[aside from mod-ship] a role-player can aspire to achieve and with that name bears a lot of responsibility and pressure. In my opinion after carefully thinking this through rather than making non members learn to proctor tests, more privileges should be bestowed upon senseis which would give further glamor and honor to the title, and create more aspiring senseis on the forum. The addition of the latest recent sensei perks of having two specials biographies should a sensei win sensei of the month twice has already proved to be very positive and has created a spirit of competition among senseis making them to up their game and teaching skills which has in general helped the role-play and improved the knowledge of the students.
 

Vincent

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Battle test conducting is a right which sensei are entitled to and a right which is fully deserved, senseiship is arguably the highest pinnacle[aside from mod-ship] a role-player can aspire to achieve and with that name bears a lot of responsibility and pressure. In my opinion after carefully thinking this through rather than making non members learn to proctor tests, more privileges should be bestowed upon senseis which would give further glamor and honor to the title, and create more aspiring senseis on the forum. The addition of the latest recent sensei perks of having two specials biographies should a sensei win sensei of the month twice has already proved to be very positive and has created a spirit of competition among senseis making them to up their game and teaching skills which has in general helped the role-play and improved the knowledge of the students.
@_@ More perks for senseis, why is everyone so greedy, arent the current set which is lightyears above anything they ever got before enough for people....
 

Daemon

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Which is literally the only reason they still exist in any capacity
True, that's not a bad thing. Especially when the senpai do more work than the sensei so training get done.
Yes the title of sensei has gone down due to the implementation of senpai but hey the training gets done.



okay now to what Erzo was saying about allowing normal members to proctor battle tests. I mean on paper it would work but you have the problem of choosing which RPers can and cannot proctor battles for what reasons etc. And then we have the problem of finding out if the RPers are actually good enough to proctor tests on sensei like levels. To be honest this has been going on inside villages for a while now, Mock battle tests for the bio they will officially be testing for. And I am sure you guys have seen these mock battles before or even participated in one

Obviously there will have to be some criteria to even submit an application. For example taking from what Scorps said. Most people feel they are skilled enough to take a battle test while having never even taken a battle test before let alone passing one. I guess it all boils down to if the members have the set skill to handle high level testing(Unless the members are restricted to low tier battle tests).
 

Edward

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True, that's not a bad thing. Especially when the senpai do more work than the sensei so training get done.
Yes the title of sensei has gone down due to the implementation of senpai but hey the training gets done.



okay now to what Erzo was saying about allowing normal members to proctor battle tests. I mean on paper it would work but you have the problem of choosing which RPers can and cannot proctor battles for what reasons etc. And then we have the problem of finding out if the RPers are actually good enough to proctor tests on sensei like levels. To be honest this has been going on inside villages for a while now, Mock battle tests for the bio they will officially be testing for. And I am sure you guys have seen these mock battles before or even participated in one

Obviously there will have to be some criteria to even submit an application. For example taking from what Scorps said. Most people feel they are skilled enough to take a battle test while having never even taken a battle test before let alone passing one. I guess it all boils down to if the members have the set skill to handle high level testing(Unless the members are restricted to low tier battle tests).
sensei's have enough perks, and i wouldn't say proctoring battle test is a 'perk', just work that's enjoyable since you can use different bios... well, maybe it is a perk, depending on how you view things.

@bold, as i suggested maybe allow the proctors to have the bio they want to proctor. Say, Drizzy, he passed the nagato test, which means if he wanted to do so, he'd be allowed to proctor nagato test tiers and lower. Something like that. ~_~ there's no real way to see if an rper is sensei level aside from the actual sensei test lol
 

Penguin

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Why should the sensei get enough perks? Quit brown nosing like your mad at it TB. They are important, but not godly.




Ace, just because Drizzy passed a Nagato test doesn't mean he can proctor one. Passing =/= proctoring. Proctors try to set your bio up to pass, and it involves a lot more thinking than just passing said test.
 

Daemon

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sensei's have enough perks, and i wouldn't say proctoring battle test is a 'perk', just work that's enjoyable since you can use different bios... well, maybe it is a perk, depending on how you view things.

@bold, as i suggested maybe allow the proctors to have the bio they want to proctor. Say, Drizzy, he passed the nagato test, which means if he wanted to do so, he'd be allowed to proctor nagato test tiers and lower. Something like that. ~_~ there's no real way to see if an rper is sensei level aside from the actual sensei test lol
True but we do know how good members are. Don't even lie you can name about 5 people off the top of your head that you know are some shit.
 

Luther

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Why should the sensei get enough perks? Quit brown nosing like your mad at it TB. They are important, but not godly.




Ace, just because Drizzy passed a Nagato test doesn't mean he can proctor one. Passing =/= proctoring. Proctors try to set your bio up to pass, and it involves a lot more thinking than just passing said test.
They are important and aside from the moderators they are the closest group i can think of that have helped immensely to make this role-play what it is today and they continue to do as they take several hours of their time daily to train students so i feel the perks would be an encouragement for them to keep up the good work. It will also increase the amount of people that apply for senseiship positions and we make people work harder and strive to become one. Giving regular members this right kind off takes a little shine of the senseiship status which shouldn't be the case, regular members can already conduct rain tests, so if this is somehow implemented it has to be severely restricted and limited to an elite few, not something that should become common.
 
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