[VS] Rocks + Roger vs Marines at the time
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Skull Knight
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ok kaido vs shanks = golden oportunity for big moma and other pirates..
a shank inconsitency wich is why he didn't help whitebeard pirates...so odda make him fight kaido to justify his absence...
world busy with marinford war to plan something is best moment to plan something..cross red line...atak celestial dragonz.ext ext..
Relostar Devil
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To attack celestial dragon you have to go through marineford then only you can climb red line to head mariejois and younkous can take over other bases of Marines anytime whenever they want only thing which is challenging to conquer is marine Ford and WB, strongest among the younkous is the best bet to fulfill that task. That's why nobody moved an inch from their respective base
..shiki can FLY OVER red line why u tink rock xebek recruited him as nakama(if he ate fruit uring that time)...germa could also climb red line..
one wold gov who controll whole one piece verse is inconsistency for me...we all know how one piece verse and geography is complicated..there are even lawless areas...
if 2 other yankos joined white beard then wg would go all out calling strongest marinez..
Relostar Devil
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It's not about who can climb red line..... Red line is just too huge for anyone to go and mostly top part is completely Rocky area where landing is impossible... Go and read reverie arc again, there is only one way to reach mariejois and that is Through marineford, that's what it is stated in manga... And why would any younkou would join another younkou. They all hate each other and all of them have so much ego and pride that they refuse to serve or work with one another.... They don't think Marines or any other pirates are threatening to them that's why they are not that much bothered.
i gave u red line exenple to show u that less protection on marijois = more it's subject to pirates attacks...
big mama and kaido also hate each other yet they formed a aliance...
it's like in football mach if all defenders go to attack and help strickers score, they leave empty defence behind ..
Skull Knight
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Nah the only inconsistency I see is Oda bringing BM in Wano. We know very well she was the weakest of all the Yonkos who needed the help of Giants to surpass other Yonkos. Yet she went after Luffy n clashed with Kaido.
Now I don't think BM has any interest in CDs. She wants to make a Utopian kingdom where she got connection with every species found in OPverse. CDs are exact opposite of what she wants to get.
Also we know that Elders, Cipher Pol n Kong didn't participate in MF war. So good chance they were stationed in Mariejois. Similarly we can say both the new admirals were also not part of MF so they could very well be positioned at the gates of Red line.
Now to be very honest most of the pirates are opportunistic in nature. They wanted WB to go n fight marines. And 2 results were possible.
1)Absolute destruction of Marines which indirectly opens the way for Yonkos/Revs to takeover Mariejois
2)Annihilation of WB pirates which will make Yonkos capture WBs territories.
The later one we say happened and BM exploited it to the fullest by capturing FI.
So she waited n saw what was gonna happen. And it's not a bad strategy considering the fact that all the Superpowers in OPverse were dragged in this conflict. And without even spilling a single drop of blood she captured Fishman Island.
i'm not familiar wih acronymez..what is CD here???..i guess u mean celestial dragonz..
-ok big mom maybe teh weakest of all yonkoz but only wit little diference..dont think that she will lose that easily...also kaido is only stronger thanks to her (she gave him dragon evil fruit)..
big mom is a feared and recognized yankos..
if other yankoz+ their allies atak marijois..teh other admiralz in marifnord war might abondon marinford becuz protecting CD is more important..
Don't forget rock exebek planed atak clestial dragonz ..
Skull Knight
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We saw that WB with his full fleet lost at MF. Kaido was stopped by Shanks. 3 strongest Yonko went/tried to reach MF n the end result was
1) Death of a Yonko
2) Yonkos takeover WBs territories.
I won't compare powerlvl as Kaido (WSC) himself accepted that WB n Shanks both are/were Greatest Pirates n BM isn't in his list.
Another point is BM herself had no interest in capturing Mariejois as her main goal is to get Giants in her team. Without them she wasn't sure she can beat any Yonko.
Attacking Mariejois means she had to face Elders+CP n most prolly Kong n new Admirals.
We don't know how strong elders are but can expect Kong to be as strong as Akainu. So CDs got ppl to protect them.
Now my point is why will BM take advantage of this scenario?
She has no beef with CDs.
But She has/had beef with other Yonkos.
So why not let them fight n kill each other. It's a win win situation for her if couple of Yonkos n their commanders die fighting each other.
Xebec case is old now. I doubt they still carry the will of Xebec i.e become King of OPverse. Heck the defeat was so brutal that it ended their era. So it's like last thing one want to remember if they wanna attack Mariejois. Let's not forget it's 1Admiral Lvl guy n 1Yonko Lvl guy who defeated Rocks era.
Relostar Devil
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Who told you that BM is weakest among all the younkous even kaidou needed smile and Giants from Caesar to make his army stronger, that doesn't mean they are weak, strength among younkos can't be comapared
Skull Knight
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@bold
Kaido himself made the list of the Greatest Pirates
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And BM wasn't Part of the list.
Also numbers weren't giants. They were failed experiments of Punk Hazard. Smile itself is a fail imitation of DF. So Kaidos crew is made of failed subjects n experiments except flying six, few headliners n commanders. Yet he's considered as the strongest creature. Now I don't care about the titles as titles guarantees nothing in OPverse but if strongest creature says Shanks n WB were Great that means they are/were obviously better than BM.
And BB is obviously going to be stronger foe than BM considering the fact that he got 2df n he was the one who gave Shanks his scar.
we don’t know how the fight went down but it was likely roger pirates plus roger and garp which lead to their defeat. If roger pirates teamed up with rocks GG WG they are not winning even with kong and sengoku joining the fight with garp at that time.
Also Kong is older than garp so it’s unlikely he’s as strong akainu currently or at mf.
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Skull Knight
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First thing first the Roger you are comparing is 38yrs ago or the one who found the OP 24years ago?
Their will be a huge difference considering the fact that Garp needed to train against Chinjao which was 30yrs back
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Lets not forget Kaido was nothing more than an apprentice in that ship. Marines themselves have said that Yonkos are far more stronger now than what they were 38yrs back
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Secondly you agree that no one knows how that fight went. Chances are high that WB defected and left while Rocks continued fighting. Note other than Garp and Roger nobody from Roger's crew was shown here.
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Notice their ship(Oro Jackson) is also not shown which means Roger was sailing most prolly in Rayleigh's small ship and wasn't big that time.
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So chances are high Roger was either working solo or maybe got Rayleigh and Gabban at best. And its just an assumption like we can assume Garp was given backup from Marine rookies like Kizaru or Akainu here. Also this incident isn't when Roger crew was at its Peak. Roger's crew reached its pinnacle when guys like Oden, Dukes, Shanks, Bullet joined. I seriously doubt they were as strong as current yonkos.
Kong is still holding a position higher than Fleet Admiral as seen during MF arc. Sengoku reported to him and even submitted his resignation to him.
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He used to make all the decisions till MF arc. It makes no sense for someone to hold a higher position if he's weak incomparison to MF Akainu or Aokiji. So 38yrs ago if Roger joined Rocks then Marines still got ppl like Garp, Sengoku, Kong, Zephyr.
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roger and garp were probably not at their peak but still in their prime, and yes we can both agree that we don't know and this is speculation. But its unlikely roger's crew aka the heavy hitters like rayleigh and gaban will let their captain take on rocks without any support.
the pic also doesn't show shiki and other rocks members but we know that its likely they participated
Good point I completely forgot that kong was active, but he is likely not at akainu's level unless he gets de-aged by bonney - garp and sengoku are also not in their prime either and kong is likely older - they are all below akainu who is in his prime.
Skull Knight
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Some of the big hitters in Rocks crew not shown in pic could mean a no.of things like:
They died before or during the incident
-Rocks were a violent crew who used to kill each other. And ppl like Captain John or Silver axe didn't even stand a chance against guys like BM or WB. They were already shown as zombie in Thriller Bark arc.
(Or)
The infighting within the crew already broke it apart. Like we know Shiki left Edd war the moment he met with an accident. And with Rocks they are killing each other.
Also Shiki was never shown as Yonko Lvl threat as ppl who were apprentice became Yonko LvL guys 20yrs back while he went to WB saying "It's your era now".
But even if we assume that pirates like Silver axe, Shiki, John were there, their is still no proof that they were countered by Rayleigh n Gabban. It's like I said above that Garp might got a backup from Kizaru or Akainu who countered them.
See Garp n Sengoku most prolly at same Lvl as Roger was. That's why we saw Roger asking for Garp or Sengoku when they saw Oden first time. So there were 2 Marines who were at Rogers LVL. That means marines can easily counter Roger pirates with them.
Kong was fleet Admiral which means at that time period he was MF Akainu Lvl guy + Zephyr another Admiral was there who could face Rocks.
To counter lower LVL pirates they got all the current Admirals(who most prolly were rookies that period - Akainu, Kizaru, Fujitora etc).
So it's very hard to compare as nobody knows how strong most of the ppl were at that time period.
Lol silver axe and captain john were YC levels likely and Shiki didn't die and they listened to their captain so they probably only left when roger and garp targeted him. It wasn't likely just the people in the picture
Shiki was a force to be reckoned with and was a rival to roger. He was defeated by both Garp and Sengoku after destroying half of mf - so he was no joke.
And guess what akainu and others would be about 15-17 at the time they likely did not participate. In no way would the marines be able to handle roger and rocks at the same time that is for sure barring secret weapons like pluton level machines or something.
Roger and Rocks are at worst equivalent to Garp and kong. Sengoku is at best equivalent to wb but more likely he's equal to shiki. And the rest of the pirates(shiki, young big mom, rayleigh, gabban) are miles above the rest of the marines.
Even without roger pirates rocks is the strongest on the island and then it's wb then garp and then kong if we scale with hype, so no they won't likely win that battle. keep in mind Sengoku like Garp wasn't at his peak and was likely about equivalent to shiki. But the point of the post was to ask what if roger pirates teamed up rocks.
fujitora was drafted recently so idk why he is being brought up and was 16 not everyone is Luffy and even Luffy at 16 was relatively weak so I doubt the rookies would make any difference(also kuzan was like 10-11).
Also, zephyr is not that strong and he is a non-cannon character. So Shiki, wb, rocks are better than the marine top 3, young bm, john, kaido, wang xi, and others > any vice-admiral or rookie. If roger pirates joined it's an absolute stomp.
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