[VS] Rocks + Roger vs Marines at the time

[Skull Knight]

Lol silver axe and captain john were YC levels likely and Shiki didn't die and they listened to their captain so they probably only left when roger and garp targeted him. It wasn't likely just the people in the picture

Incorrect if they were YC LVL guys then we would have got some hype back in Thriller Bark like they said for Ryuma being special.

Shiki was a force to be reckoned with and was a rival to roger. He was defeated by both Garp and Sengoku after destroying half of mf - so he was no joke.

Wrong he was never shown that strong.
Edd war he brought a fleet to clash with Roger. He meet an accident he run away.

MF he only killed few fodders. After Sengoku n Garp showed he got captured not dead. Again shows he wasn't someone who could fight till death.

After his escape from Impel Down he went to WB saying it's his era now.

Comes strong world(for which his character was designed) he lost to Luffy.

Now let's compare it with the Yonkos. BM goes to Wano without even her commanders n wrecked havoc in countryside. Shanks stopped kaido n entered MF without any allies. But Shiki needed a fleet just to team up with Roger lol. This itself shows the vast difference between Shiki and current Yonkos.
He was never going to be someone who's as strong as current Yonkos. If he was he would have taken Shanks seat n reigned with other Rocks pirates.

And guess what akainu and others would be about 15-17 at the time they likely did not participate. In no way would the marines be able to handle roger and rocks at the same time that is for sure barring secret weapons like pluton level machines or something.

Kizaru would be 20yrs at that time n Akainu would be 17yrs. But let's not forget Koby was 16 when he was in MF standing infront of Luffy n other big shots.

Roger and Rocks are at worst equivalent to Garp and kong. Sengoku is at best equivalent to wb but more likely he's equal to shiki. And the rest of the pirates(shiki, young big mom, rayleigh, gabban) are miles above the rest of the marines.

Even without roger pirates rocks is the strongest on the island and then it's wb then garp and then kong if we scale with hype, so no they won't likely win that battle. keep in mind Sengoku like Garp wasn't at his peak and was likely about equivalent to shiki. But the point of the post was to ask what if roger pirates teamed up rocks.

fujitora was drafted recently so idk why he is being brought up and was 16 not everyone is Luffy and even Luffy at 16 was relatively weak so I doubt the rookies would make any difference(also kuzan was like 10-11).

Also, zephyr is not that strong and he is a non-cannon character. So Shiki, wb, rocks are better than the marine top 3, young bm, john, kaido, wang xi, and others > any vice-admiral or rookie. If roger pirates joined it's an absolute stomp.

You are hyping Shiki way too much. The simple fact that Oda didn't draw him with BM, WB, Kaido n Rocks when they facing Roger n Garp tells enough that a apprentice like Kaido was more strong or held a higher position than Shiki had back in Rocks era.

You believe current Admirals won't start young like Luffy but you are forgetting that they are also Main Character in this series. Just take the example of Dofflamingo he also started young. Also it's shown multiple times now in the series that Marines/Admirals train next gen of Admirals i.e Zephyr training Kizaru, Garp training Aokiji / Koby from young period.
You also raised a issue that Fuji is a new recruit. See unlike Pirates, Marines don't pick random guys n put them in Marines program. Just take the example of Drake or Corazon they were all drafted in Marines from early age. Fuji himself said that he saw way too much violence in his lifetime which is the reason he removed his eyes. So he must have seen violence in multiple areas inflicted by Marines as well as other external force. Only possible if he was travelling with Marines.

Now I won't compare any of the pirates or marines who were present at Gods valley to be at their prime as seen with Garp who required training to beat Chinjao. Same guy who lost to G3 Luffy.
I also can't say how this whole incident unfolded. However I m pretty sure that there were multiple Vice admirals present there behind the wall of Marines cheering for Garp. I would also point you that God Valley vanished after this incident which means Marines called for Buster Call again signify that there were backup from Marines. But these are all assumptions until more info is given by Oda.
To be very honest I just can't see how Roger and Garp reached their prime 38yrs ago when Roger didnt even got his full crew. It's highly unlikely that Roger reached his prime but Garp kept struggling even tho it was mentioned that they both killed each other whenever they clashed. Same goes for current Yonkos n other pirates(if they were present).

 

[arv993]

Incorrect if they were YC LVL guys then we would have got some hype back in Thriller Bark like they said for Ryuma being special.


Wrong he was never shown that strong.
Edd war he brought a fleet to clash with Roger. He meet an accident he run away.

MF he only killed few fodders. After Sengoku n Garp showed he got captured not dead. Again shows he wasn't someone who could fight till death.

After his escape from Impel Down he went to WB saying it's his era now.

Comes strong world(for which his character was designed) he lost to Luffy.

Now let's compare it with the Yonkos. BM goes to Wano without even her commanders n wrecked havoc in countryside. Shanks stopped kaido n entered MF without any allies. But Shiki needed a fleet just to team up with Roger lol. This itself shows the vast difference between Shiki and current Yonkos.
He was never going to be someone who's as strong as current Yonkos. If he was he would have taken Shanks seat n reigned with other Rocks pirates.


Kizaru would be 20yrs at that time n Akainu would be 17yrs. But let's not forget Koby was 16 when he was in MF standing infront of Luffy n other big shots.


You are hyping Shiki way too much. The simple fact that Oda didn't draw him with BM, WB, Kaido n Rocks when they facing Roger n Garp tells enough that a apprentice like Kaido was more strong or held a higher position than Shiki had back in Rocks era.

You believe current Admirals won't start young like Luffy but you are forgetting that they are also Main Character in this series. Just take the example of Dofflamingo he also started young. Also it's shown multiple times now in the series that Marines/Admirals train next gen of Admirals i.e Zephyr training Kizaru, Garp training Aokiji / Koby from young period.
You also raised a issue that Fuji is a new recruit. See unlike Pirates, Marines don't pick random guys n put them in Marines program. Just take the example of Drake or Corazon they were all drafted in Marines from early age. Fuji himself said that he saw way too much violence in his lifetime which is the reason he removed his eyes. So he must have seen violence in multiple areas inflicted by Marines as well as other external force. Only possible if he was travelling with Marines.

Now I won't compare any of the pirates or marines who were present at Gods valley to be at their prime as seen with Garp who required training to beat Chinjao. Same guy who lost to G3 Luffy.
I also can't say how this whole incident unfolded. However I m pretty sure that there were multiple Vice admirals present there behind the wall of Marines cheering for Garp. I would also point you that God Valley vanished after this incident which means Marines called for Buster Call again signify that there were backup from Marines. But these are all assumptions until more info is given by Oda.
To be very honest I just can't see how Roger and Garp reached their prime 38yrs ago when Roger didnt even got his full crew. It's highly unlikely that Roger reached his prime but Garp kept struggling even tho it was mentioned that they both killed each other whenever they clashed. Same goes for current Yonkos n other pirates(if they were present).

Dude they were hyped, if they were absolute fodder they would not be in the crew and be worthy of being mentioned they were hyped as special captains.

Ok koby at 16 is weak af all he did in MF was cry and hide lol what the **** are 16 year olds going to do esp against a 30 year old big mom and 20ish year old kaido they would get wrecked.

Fuji was recruited recently he was not a marine how do you not get that, he was not part of the organization, its like me saying maybe WB can go to wano and find oden and make him join rocks before the fight. Fuji is a new recruit period end of story he was not in any skirmish prior to the world draft.

you are not observing one piece correctly if you believe shiki is not an admiral/yonko tier character. He is a rival to roger and fought him many times, if he was so weak he wouldn't have an extended fight with two admiral level characters and destroy half of marineford. if sengoku or garp can easily destroy him they should def be able to kill him on sight at MF.

Who tf said shanks beat kaido by himself, shiki wanted to rule the world with roger, he wanted use his knowledge and strength. WB is the strongest yonko with the strongest crew so yea it was his era at the time shiki had no impressive crew at that point. Why do you keep bringing up zephyr the dude is non-cannon.


garp required training to beat chinjao's head not chinjao, he wanted to destroy his head he was always stronger than chinjao lol

 

[Skull Knight]

Dude they were hyped, if they were absolute fodder they would not be in the crew and be worthy of being mentioned they were hyped as special captains.

The simple reason that all of them were dead now and became Moriah's Zombie tells enough that how strong they were. Only guys in Rocks era which reached to the top were WB, BM and Kaido. Rest lost and perished. Their was no hype when they were shown in Thriller Bark arc.

Again its unnecessary to assume what happened there when Oda didn't even showed what happened in Gods Valley. As you assumed that Roger's crew annihilated Rocks underlings I can assume its Marines who did that until further info is provided.

Ok koby at 16 is weak af all he did in MF was cry and hide lol what the **** are 16 year olds going to do esp against a 30 year old big mom and 20ish year old kaido they would get wrecked.

Age logic is stupid now. I showed you Koby's age bcus he was present in MF and Marines allowed him to fight. when you said Marines wont let a young Akainu to fight. Also I didn't said current admirals fought Kaido or BM. That we know they fought with Garp and Roger.
I said they could also take on ppl like Silver Axe and other guys. Guys like Shanks, Dofflamingo all started young. Shanks was 15-17 when he started his independent journey same age as Ace and Luffy were. And Luffy was kicking multiple Shichibukai in that age period. Ace clashed with Jinbei. Shanks started a rivalry with Mihawk. So far all the Main Characters in the series has shown that they were nurtured to become a big shot from an early age so why it wont apply to Akainu?

you are not observing one piece correctly if you believe shiki is not an admiral/yonko tier character. He is a rival to roger and fought him many times, if he was so weak he wouldn't have an extended fight with two admiral level characters and destroy half of marineford. if sengoku or garp can easily destroy him they should def be able to kill him on sight at MF.

You are hyping Shiki based on off screen fights which never showed how that fight went.
We already saw how strong Shiki was during Strong World. He lost to a G3 Lightning infused kick. And in before you say its filler plz note Oda was part of that movie. You can go check in wiki if you like. Here's the link.

You must be registered for see links

And this is what it says:

Spoiler

Oda personally supervised the production of Strong World, created the film's original story and over 120 pages of rough drawings. Furthermore, he placed his own name on the film's credits to indicate his desire for a film that is different from its nine predecessors.

Again the moment Garp and Sengoku showed up they put him to his place. Destroying a certain landmass doesn't make someone Yonko/Admiral lvl. Example: Pica destroyed shiit tonne of buildings while fighting Coloseum guys and SHs. He prolly destroyed half of Dressrosa before Doffy's threads cut the town. Does that put Pica in Yonko lvl? Obviously not. So assuming he destroyed some buldings and ship put him in that bracket makes zero sense.

Who tf said shanks beat kaido by himself, shiki wanted to rule the world with roger, he wanted use his knowledge and strength. WB is the strongest yonko with the strongest crew so yea it was his era at the time shiki had no impressive crew at that point. Why do you keep bringing up zephyr the dude is non-cannon.

If Shanks didn't beat him then why will Kaido put Shanks in the list of One Piece Greatest of all time pirates?

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So far Yonkos are shown to fighting alone when they are challenged directly/ Shanks was always ready to face Akainu and BB in MF arc, Mihawk on that island and when he came with Luffy's poster. Why will he let his commanders fight Kaido when he knows very well that they stand no chance against Kaido? Also the scan itself proves that Kaido believes Shanks on his lvl or higher.

Shiki wanted to rule the world with Roger:
Someone who cant be in same panel as 3 of the greatest pirates (Rocks, WB, Roger) during that God Valley incident, wanted Roger to be his underling lol.
If he was that good Kaido would have praised him but nope he was never that good. And lets not forget this was the period when Roger was severely ill but rather taking him 1 on 1 Shiki brought a fleet lol.
As I said before if he was strong enough he would have reigned as a Yonko with other Rocks Pirates. He wouldn't have run away from EDD war just bcus he met an accident. He would have became a big shot after his ID escape but nope WB its your era now. Famous last words of Shiki seeing a big shot. That says enough how strong he was. He was same like Moria who run away after his fight with Kaido and never went back to NW.

garp required training to beat chinjao's head not chinjao, he wanted to destroy his head he was always stronger than chinjao lol

Garp needed training to beat Chinjao's head lol. Same head which was destroyed by Sai without any training. lol.

 

[arv993]

The simple reason that all of them were dead now and became Moriah's Zombie tells enough that how strong they were. Only guys in Rocks era which reached to the top were WB, BM and Kaido. Rest lost and perished. Their was no hype when they were shown in Thriller Bark arc.

Again its unnecessary to assume what happened there when Oda didn't even showed what happened in Gods Valley. As you assumed that Roger's crew annihilated Rocks underlings I can assume its Marines who did that until further info is provided.


Age logic is stupid now. I showed you Koby's age bcus he was present in MF and Marines allowed him to fight. when you said Marines wont let a young Akainu to fight. Also I didn't said current admirals fought Kaido or BM. That we know they fought with Garp and Roger.
I said they could also take on ppl like Silver Axe and other guys. Guys like Shanks, Dofflamingo all started young. Shanks was 15-17 when he started his independent journey same age as Ace and Luffy were. And Luffy was kicking multiple Shichibukai in that age period. Ace clashed with Jinbei. Shanks started a rivalry with Mihawk. So far all the Main Characters in the series has shown that they were nurtured to become a big shot from an early age so why it wont apply to Akainu?



You are hyping Shiki based on off screen fights which never showed how that fight went.
We already saw how strong Shiki was during Strong World. He lost to a G3 Lightning infused kick. And in before you say its filler plz note Oda was part of that movie. You can go check in wiki if you like. Here's the link.

You must be registered for see links

And this is what it says:

Spoiler

Oda personally supervised the production of Strong World, created the film's original story and over 120 pages of rough drawings. Furthermore, he placed his own name on the film's credits to indicate his desire for a film that is different from its nine predecessors.

Again the moment Garp and Sengoku showed up they put him to his place. Destroying a certain landmass doesn't make someone Yonko/Admiral lvl. Example: Pica destroyed shiit tonne of buildings while fighting Coloseum guys and SHs. He prolly destroyed half of Dressrosa before Doffy's threads cut the town. Does that put Pica in Yonko lvl? Obviously not. So assuming he destroyed some buldings and ship put him in that bracket makes zero sense.


If Shanks didn't beat him then why will Kaido put Shanks in the list of One Piece Greatest of all time pirates?

You must be registered to see images

So far Yonkos are shown to fighting alone when they are challenged directly/ Shanks was always ready to face Akainu and BB in MF arc, Mihawk on that island and when he came with Luffy's poster. Why will he let his commanders fight Kaido when he knows very well that they stand no chance against Kaido? Also the scan itself proves that Kaido believes Shanks on his lvl or higher.

Shiki wanted to rule the world with Roger:
Someone who cant be in same panel as 3 of the greatest pirates (Rocks, WB, Roger) during that God Valley incident, wanted Roger to be his underling lol.
If he was that good Kaido would have praised him but nope he was never that good. And lets not forget this was the period when Roger was severely ill but rather taking him 1 on 1 Shiki brought a fleet lol.
As I said before if he was strong enough he would have reigned as a Yonko with other Rocks Pirates. He wouldn't have run away from EDD war just bcus he met an accident. He would have became a big shot after his ID escape but nope WB its your era now. Famous last words of Shiki seeing a big shot. That says enough how strong he was. He was same like Moria who run away after his fight with Kaido and never went back to NW.


Garp needed training to beat Chinjao's head lol. Same head which was destroyed by Sai without any training. lol.

Rocks weren't annhilated as shiki, wb, bm and kaido are totally fine. they probably betrayed rocks once he lost to garp and roger. zombies are weaker than their prime ryuma is proof of that.


none of the ppl you talked about were admiral or YC level at 16 so no your point does not hold. Coby who is a future admiral was not useful in combat during the fight. even luffy wasn't he was getting help left and right but he had a ton of allies so he was useful.

strong world is filler chapter zero is not but strong world is filler, luffy did not beat shiki. Oda helps with movies but they are not cannon.

You do know that shiki was sengoku's rival right lol they used to clash often so do you believe sengoku was going easy on pirates?

Shanks can injure him sure and he probably did but beat him that's a stretch we never got confirmation of that.

that is a very narrow view lol so big mom can't hurt kaido only the people in the panel are great?? what about all the admirals, blackbeard etc. shiki is retired and has disappeared from the world largely.

chinjao in his prime is different than an 80 year old man, so are you trying to say that sai is close to rocks and roger and garp from gods valley if so I am done here lol.

 

[Skull Knight]

Rocks weren't annhilated as shiki, wb, bm and kaido are totally fine. they probably betrayed rocks once he lost to garp and roger. zombies are weaker than their prime ryuma is proof of that.

You say Rocks weren't annihilated and at the same time say only 4 guys survived lol. Is it a Win win situation where captain and more than half of the crew vanished in one day thanks to Garp n Roger.

Ryuma was hyped in his zombie form others weren't. So they were not special.

none of the ppl you talked about were admiral or YC level at 16 so no your point does not hold. Coby who is a future admiral was not useful in combat during the fight. even luffy wasn't he was getting help left and right but he had a ton of allies so he was useful.

At the age of 17 Luffy (MC) was beating multiple Shichibukai. Ppl like Dofflamingo already had his executives lined up, Shanks started his famous duel with Mihawk and you still think Akainu wasn't ready for Shiki or John?

strong world is filler chapter zero is not but strong world is filler, luffy did not beat shiki. Oda helps with movies but they are not cannon.

Oda has written the story n Toei had asked him to work on the script. That makes it Canon. It showed what Shiki was capable of, his df ability and what he was scheming for last 20yrs. And it came from Oda. If you think he retired 20yrs back then he was never a big shot as ppl. After all he simply left everything to WB n quit.

You do know that shiki was sengoku's rival right lol they used to clash often so do you believe sengoku was going easy on pirates?

And Moria clashed with Kaido so automatically he's at Yonko Lvl. Or how bout Crocodile clashing with WB. Does that make these Shichibukai Yonko Lvl guys? Obviously not.

Shanks can injure him sure and he probably did but beat him that's a stretch we never got confirmation of that.

that is a very narrow view lol so big mom can't hurt kaido only the people in the panel are great?? what about all the admirals, blackbeard etc. shiki is retired and has disappeared from the world largely.

He has received 7defeats and countless times was captured. He made the list of ppl who not only can fight with him but he consider them to be Great. It doesn't matter where Admirals or BM lies. It's simple that those 5 are GOAT in Kaidos book. And that's enough to prove that Kaido believes Shanks is on his lvl just like he said for Oden that "he had a chance against him if he allied with Yakuza".

chinjao in his prime is different than an 80 year old man, so are you trying to say that sai is close to rocks and roger and garp from gods valley if so I am done here lol.

Let's not switch the topic. His head was part of his body and it count as his power. Garp needed training to beat him which proves none of the guys were at their prime during that incident.

 

[arv993]

You say Rocks weren't annihilated and at the same time say only 4 guys survived lol. Is it a Win win situation where captain and more than half of the crew vanished in one day thanks to Garp n Roger.

Ryuma was hyped in his zombie form others weren't. So they were not special.


At the age of 17 Luffy (MC) was beating multiple Shichibukai. Ppl like Dofflamingo already had his executives lined up, Shanks started his famous duel with Mihawk and you still think Akainu wasn't ready for Shiki or John?


Oda has written the story n Toei had asked him to work on the script. That makes it Canon. It showed what Shiki was capable of, his df ability and what he was scheming for last 20yrs. And it came from Oda. If you think he retired 20yrs back then he was never a big shot as ppl. After all he simply left everything to WB n quit.


And Moria clashed with Kaido so automatically he's at Yonko Lvl. Or how bout Crocodile clashing with WB. Does that make these Shichibukai Yonko Lvl guys? Obviously not.


He has received 7defeats and countless times was captured. He made the list of ppl who not only can fight with him but he consider them to be Great. It doesn't matter where Admirals or BM lies. It's simple that those 5 are GOAT in Kaidos book. And that's enough to prove that Kaido believes Shanks is on his lvl just like he said for Oden that "he had a chance against him if he allied with Yakuza".


Let's not switch the topic. His head was part of his body and it count as his power. Garp needed training to beat him which proves none of the guys were at their prime during that incident.

they were killed by roger and crew likely but yea that happens. 4 of the strongest survived.

he beat low level schibukai and luffy is stronger than almost everybody for his age and even he was massively outclassed at MF.

Shiki was a top tier then so no akainu at 17 isn't taking on a top tier pirate, 30 year old BM is a vet by that point so no less than YC1. akainu at 17 isn't taking on people like that.

They are not cannon, he writes most of the movies but they are not cannon, some of the characters are like shiki himself but the story of the movie is not cannon. You can go look at the wiki.

Moria at his prime is close to oden/kaido at that point so a high YC level character, he was a rival to kaido but lost his will, became fat and weak.

Yea the guy is suicidal so yea if go do 1 v 20 you are going to lose, are we going to hold luffy's Ls against him when he is pirate king. current kaido is a literal beast - he knocked luffy(YC1+ to low top tier) and 5 YC level guys(with sulong neko and duke) and 4 new world level characters, and messed around with 2 other supernova casually and is nowhere close to done so i don't care if he lost in his early days.

garp wanted a duel between chinjao's head and his fist,he didn't even arrest chinjao it was a duel for fun. In a real battle he can easily avoid his head.Garp was admiral level at god's valley if you can't see that then that is on you he ofc got better but he was strong in his 40s aka his prime.

 

[Skull Knight]

they were killed by roger and crew likely but yea that happens. 4 of the strongest survived.

Majority of the crew perished. John, Axe, Shiki somehow made out of the island. No mention of Rogers crew was made here. The only detail that was given was Roger and Garp fought with Rocks and we saw marines cheering for Garp. Rest is all assumption.

he beat low level schibukai and luffy is stronger than almost everybody for his age and even he was massively outclassed at MF.

Yea and these low Lvl Shichibukai once clashed with Kaido n WB but lost to 17yr old Luffy but John and Silver axe is supposed to be stronger than Crocodile or Moria? Even tho none of those pirates has any hype. Akainu another MC can't do this bcus we will compare him with Koby. Not with Luffy, Ace or Shanks.

Shiki was a top tier then so no akainu at 17 isn't taking on a top tier pirate, 30 year old BM is a vet by that point so no less than YC1. akainu at 17 isn't taking on people like that.

You again went back to BM.
Shiki wasn't even drawn with Top Tiers in that fight. Kaido being an apprentice joined top tiers while Shiki was prolly running away as that's the only thing he does best.

They are not cannon, he writes most of the movies but they are not cannon, some of the characters are like shiki himself but the story of the movie is not cannon. You can go look at the wiki.

Strong World is the first movie where he works in story/script writing. In other movies he only did character designing. Even the manga chapter was dropped bcus of the movie. The movie picks where the manga ends showing what Shiki was scheming all those yrs. After Strong world Shiki was never shown again. If he retired or became underground Oda would have shown glimpse of it but it seems he has already wrapped up Shiki's part. Whatever Shikis power / df ability was one can check it from Strong world. He didn't exhibit anything which puts him in Yonko tier list. If he was such a big shot like Roger or WB then Kaido would have praised him but nope he didn't considered him to be part of the list. It's high time for ppl to stop praising Shiki when his best feat is to lvl some landmass nothing else.

Moria at his prime is close to oden/kaido at that point so a high YC level character, he was a rival to kaido but lost his will, became fat and weak.

His crew was annihilated by Kaido. He wasn't anywhere near YC LVL. Heck he was nowhere near Oden. Oden still haunt Kaido that's why he felt his aura in Zoro's blades whereas he doesn't even remember if he ever fought with Moria or not.

Yea the guy is suicidal so yea if go do 1 v 20 you are going to lose, are we going to hold luffy's Ls against him when he is pirate king. current kaido is a literal beast - he knocked luffy(YC1+ to low top tier) and 5 YC level guys(with sulong neko and duke) and 4 new world level characters, and messed around with 2 other supernova casually and is nowhere close to done so i don't care if he lost in his early days.

He made a list where he puts Shanks in Legendary tier and asking himself if Luffy is trying to reach their or not. That's self explanatory that Shanks is on his Lvl. Does it matter who he steamrolled before Luffy v Kaido Round 2?

garp wanted a duel between chinjao's head and his fist,he didn't even arrest chinjao it was a duel for fun. In a real battle he can easily avoid his head.Garp was admiral level at god's valley if you can't see that then that is on you he ofc got better but he was strong in his 40s aka his prime.

Garp can beat Chinjao body but he wants to fight his head. Is the head separate entity or what? Chinjao's strongest attack was his head drill. And to counter that Garp needed training even tho he should have advance Haki if he was facing Prime Roger at that point.

 

[arv993]

Majority of the crew perished. John, Axe, Shiki somehow made out of the island. No mention of Rogers crew was made here. The only detail that was given was Roger and Garp fought with Rocks and we saw marines cheering for Garp. Rest is all assumption.


Yea and these low Lvl Shichibukai once clashed with Kaido n WB but lost to 17yr old Luffy but John and Silver axe is supposed to be stronger than Crocodile or Moria? Even tho none of those pirates has any hype. Akainu another MC can't do this bcus we will compare him with Koby. Not with Luffy, Ace or Shanks.


You again went back to BM.
Shiki wasn't even drawn with Top Tiers in that fight. Kaido being an apprentice joined top tiers while Shiki was prolly running away as that's the only thing he does best.


Strong World is the first movie where he works in story/script writing. In other movies he only did character designing. Even the manga chapter was dropped bcus of the movie. The movie picks where the manga ends showing what Shiki was scheming all those yrs. After Strong world Shiki was never shown again. If he retired or became underground Oda would have shown glimpse of it but it seems he has already wrapped up Shiki's part. Whatever Shikis power / df ability was one can check it from Strong world. He didn't exhibit anything which puts him in Yonko tier list. If he was such a big shot like Roger or WB then Kaido would have praised him but nope he didn't considered him to be part of the list. It's high time for ppl to stop praising Shiki when his best feat is to lvl some landmass nothing else.



His crew was annihilated by Kaido. He wasn't anywhere near YC LVL. Heck he was nowhere near Oden. Oden still haunt Kaido that's why he felt his aura in Zoro's blades whereas he doesn't even remember if he ever fought with Moria or not.


He made a list where he puts Shanks in Legendary tier and asking himself if Luffy is trying to reach their or not. That's self explanatory that Shanks is on his Lvl. Does it matter who he steamrolled before Luffy v Kaido Round 2?


Garp can beat Chinjao body but he wants to fight his head. Is the head separate entity or what? Chinjao's strongest attack was his head drill. And to counter that Garp needed training even tho he should have advance Haki if he was facing Prime Roger at that point.

yes we are scaling here obviously we don't know every single person who was there. Unless roger and garp were on steroids they shouldn't be able to beat 3 top tiers and high tiers in big mom. so we are trying to see what can happen.

Moria got weaker dude, you do know ppl get weaker right. The dude got depressed and became a low level guy who didn't use haki - again let me repeat he did not use HAKI. he was called a rival to kaido, how can a rival of kaido be a million times weaker than him.

Shiki is a legit pirate top tier who was sengoku's rival, this is documented so I will leave it at that if you don't agree go talk to oda. The manga is disagreeing with your characterization.

Again strong world is not canon - movies are not canon and even if it was, he was old not everyone declines at the same rate some people are weaker than others at old age but it doesn't matter since its not canon. if shiki was 95 power level in his prime he can decline to 50 power level because hes old where as garp could decline to an 85 from a 98 power level. But in this time line shiki was young aka in his 40s lol

we don't know how he stopped kaido, it wasn't stated he was defeated by him.


Ok he can dodge it and hit his body. Ok let me make this simple do you think chinjao at the time prior to garps training was at the level of roger and garp? Also by extension do you think garp, rocks and roger and WB were below top tier level in their 40s? Answer these questions.