Rinnegan Obito vs Edo Madara

[Pragmatic]

Thats not how it works either.

Ranged Kamui just like Amaterasu are manifested at focal point.

As long as he can see the target he can snipe.



Konan knew the mechanics, Kakashi knew the mechanics.

Even with knowing how it works madara lacks any half solid ability to deal with kamui.

Konan knew nothing

Kakashi had to figure it out as he fought and he is nothing compared to Madara

Madara going in with full intel on Kamui stomps

 

[AlphaScythian]

Konan knew nothing

Kakashi had to figure it out as he fought and he is nothing compared to Madara

Madara going in with full intel on Kamui stomps

He doesnt. He cant overcome intangibility, he cant pressure Obito for 5 straight min either.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Konan knew nothing

Kakashi had to figure it out as he fought and he is nothing compared to Madara

Madara going in with full intel on Kamui stomps

How on earth do people get this desperate?


Konana did know about it. Stop arguing with the manga.

Kakashi could use his own Kamui to teleport to Obito's dimension and back, Madara can't, Madara's basically BM Naruto with wood style in scale of abilities.

You need to make up a far better argument.

 

[Draphsin]

Even you should see Obito obviously loses in scenario 1.

No he doesn't & you're repeating arguments I've already addressed. U_U

-With full Intel, multiple wood clones at the start,

None of those clones have the power to come close to the GM as it's using it's shockwaves, plus obito can eject any clone he warps either into his kaenjin barrier, multiple chakra rods, a GM chakra blast, or into human path.

and NO, Madara would be a fool to repeat what he did with the Gokage and stand apart from his clones knowing Obito can detect/warp him.

Still has to use PS in order to deal with the mazou, & once he does that he paints a big red target on his back.

-A clone can easily set up FTW, while the rest attack Obito.

GM destroys any pollen in the area, obito phases underground or warps atop it's head to avoid it, bakufuu ranbu roasts it.

-Obito becomes overwhelmed with clones,

Lol No he doesn't, GM continuously knocks them back as obito warps the clones while they're recovering. If they "overwhelm" him he phases underground & away from harm, they can't touch him.

Considering madara's mindset he won't be happy with being continuously knocked back by the GM, so he'll use PS sooner or later in order to try & deal with it quickly & satisfy his bloodlust.

as they can sprout Mokuton from the ground to prevent him from solidifying/impale him should he solidify.

@U: Not happening, he can ride atop the GM statue, & phase behind the clones/original when necessary, & if they're all inside susanoo then that makes it even easier for him to warp them.

@Bold: They can't touch him unless they are instantaneous, how many times does this need to be demonstrated? Gai & kakashi were attempting to land attacks on obito from his blindspots as he was mere centimeters away from naruto, but to no avail. [

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] No amount of surprise mokuton is touching obito, he phases through it.

-Gedo is kept busy by legged Susano clones (it was getting beat down by Hachibi, and Hachibi wasn't even fighting seriously)

No it isn't, the clones topple over once it uses it's shockwave. It didn't use said shockwave once against it's fight with naruto & co. Not to mention it took the combined efforts of kakashi, gai, naruto, & gyuki to knock it down, not just gyuki. [

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The physical strength of madara's legged susanoos is fodder in comparison to the GM, one couldn't even phase gaara's sand defense, it took multiple simultaneous hits to produce enough force to knock him down. The GM can stop a mountain multiple times larger than itself from crushing it. The amount of force it takes to do that far surpasses anything the susanoo clones showed us.

Proof of the bold?

and pinned down with wood dragon

Again, any & all debris is cleared away via shockwave, mokuton dragon gets crushed as well.

Alternatively, obito can warp away & re-summon the GM out of any tangled mess should it become to overwhelming. Sorry but the GM can't get pinned.

-After 5 minutes, Obito inhales pollen and it puts him to sleep.

After 4 & some minutes, if obito still can't find a safe place to become tangible then he quickly phases underground & appears far enough away to reset his limit.

Even if it doesnt work, it comes down to a battle of stamina, which Madara wins.

Madara will get tired of being blown back continuously by the shockwaves, & if he doesn't then obito will find the right clone eventually, long before he runs out of chakra anyways.

Intel lets Madara win because he will know the mechanics of Kamui. If you dont understand exactly how Kamui works you most likely wont win against a Kamui user

Lol Just knowing the mechanics of kamui doesn't mean you can hit the user, refer to naruto/be/kakashi/gai vs obito, they didn't start hitting him until kamui [one of the counters to kamui] was used.

Thats not how it works either.

Ranged Kamui just like Amaterasu are manifested at focal point.

As long as he can see the target he can snipe.

I don't believe it works that way, it just seems more likely that the portal is based on the LoS of the user.

 

[Benjamin King]

Even with knowing how it works madara lacks any half solid ability to deal with kamui.

He doesn't need to. Distracting Obito with Bunshin, and having him wrap the clone in which Obito becomes solid to do so, Madara takes his chance to kill him during that moment.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

No he doesn't & you're repeating arguments I've already addressed. U_U



None of those clones have the power to come close to the GM as it's using it's shockwaves, plus obito can eject any clone he warps either into his kaenjin barrier, multiple chakra rods, a GM chakra blast, or into human path.



Still has to use PS in order to deal with the mazou, & once he does that he paints a big red target on his back.



GM destroys any pollen in the area, obito phases underground or warps atop it's head to avoid it, bakufuu ranbu roasts it.



Lol No he doesn't, GM continuously knocks them back as obito warps the clones while they're recovering. If they "overwhelm" him he phases underground & away from harm, they can't touch him.

Considering madara's mindset he won't be happy with being continuously knocked back by the GM, so he'll use PS sooner or later in order to try & deal with it quickly & satisfy his bloodlust.



@U: Not happening, he can ride atop the GM statue, & phase behind the clones/original when necessary, & if they're all inside susanoo then that makes it even easier for him to warp them.

@Bold: They can't touch him unless they are instantaneous, how many times does this need to be demonstrated? Gai & kakashi were attempting to land attacks on obito from his blindspots as he was mere centimeters away from naruto, but to no avail. [

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] No amount of surprise mokuton is touching obito, he phases through it.



No it isn't, the clones topple over once it uses it's shockwave. It didn't use said shockwave once against it's fight with naruto & co. Not to mention it took the combined efforts of kakashi, gai, naruto, & gyuki to knock it down, not just gyuki. [

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The physical strength of madara's legged susanoos is fodder in comparison to the GM, one couldn't even phase gaara's sand defense, it took multiple simultaneous hits to produce enough force to knock him down. The GM can stop a mountain multiple times larger than itself from crushing it. The amount of force it takes to do that far surpasses anything the susanoo clones showed us.

Proof of the bold?



Again, any & all debris is cleared away via shockwave, mokuton dragon gets crushed as well.

Alternatively, obito can warp away & re-summon the GM out of any tangled mess should it become to overwhelming. Sorry but the GM can't get pinned.



After 4 & some minutes, if obito still can't find a safe place to become tangible then he quickly phases underground & appears far enough away to reset his limit.



Madara will get tired of being blown back continuously by the shockwaves, & if he doesn't then obito will find the right clone eventually, long before he runs out of chakra anyways.



Lol Just knowing the mechanics of kamui doesn't mean you can hit the user, refer to naruto/be/kakashi/gai vs obito, they didn't start hitting him until kamui [one of the counters to kamui] was used.

Might I also add that the pollen of the tree means absolutely nothing to Obito? Instead of being intangible, he could easily teleport away from it.

 

[Demonic.]

No he doesn't & you're repeating arguments I've already addressed. U_U



None of those clones have the power to come close to the GM as it's using it's shockwaves, plus obito can eject any clone he warps either into his kaenjin barrier, multiple chakra rods, a GM chakra blast, or into human path.



Still has to use PS in order to deal with the mazou, & once he does that he paints a big red target on his back.



GM destroys any pollen in the area, obito phases underground or warps atop it's head to avoid it, bakufuu ranbu roasts it.



Lol No he doesn't, GM continuously knocks them back as obito warps the clones while they're recovering. If they "overwhelm" him he phases underground & away from harm, they can't touch him.

Considering madara's mindset he won't be happy with being continuously knocked back by the GM, so he'll use PS sooner or later in order to try & deal with it quickly & satisfy his bloodlust.



@U: Not happening, he can ride atop the GM statue, & phase behind the clones/original when necessary, & if they're all inside susanoo then that makes it even easier for him to warp them.

@Bold: They can't touch him unless they are instantaneous, how many times does this need to be demonstrated? Gai & kakashi were attempting to land attacks on obito from his blindspots as he was mere centimeters away from naruto, but to no avail. [

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-

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] No amount of surprise mokuton is touching obito, he phases through it.



No it isn't, the clones topple over once it uses it's shockwave. It didn't use said shockwave once against it's fight with naruto & co. Not to mention it took the combined efforts of kakashi, gai, naruto, & gyuki to knock it down, not just gyuki. [

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-

You must be registered for see links

]

The physical strength of madara's legged susanoos is fodder in comparison to the GM, one couldn't even phase gaara's sand defense, it took multiple simultaneous hits to produce enough force to knock him down. The GM can stop a mountain multiple times larger than itself from crushing it. The amount of force it takes to do that far surpasses anything the susanoo clones showed us.

Proof of the bold?



Again, any & all debris is cleared away via shockwave, mokuton dragon gets crushed as well.

Alternatively, obito can warp away & re-summon the GM out of any tangled mess should it become to overwhelming. Sorry but the GM can't get pinned.



After 4 & some minutes, if obito still can't find a safe place to become tangible then he quickly phases underground & appears far enough away to reset his limit.



Madara will get tired of being blown back continuously by the shockwaves, & if he doesn't then obito will find the right clone eventually, long before he runs out of chakra anyways.



Lol Just knowing the mechanics of kamui doesn't mean you can hit the user, refer to naruto/be/kakashi/gai vs obito, they didn't start hitting him until kamui [one of the counters to kamui] was used.



I don't believe it works that way, it just seems more likely that the portal is based on the LoS of the user.

Your whole argument revolves around the Gedo and thinking Madara needs PS to deal with it when he can just summon a couple meteors.

 

[AlphaScythian]

I don't believe it works that way, it just seems more likely that the portal is based on the LoS of the user.

You seem to misunderstand LOS a little.

It's line of sight, but transparent and semi transparent objects dont defeat it as it is still possible to pin point location behind it.

 

[Draphsin]

You seem to misunderstand LOS a little.

It's line of sight, but transparent and semi transparent objects dont defeat it as it is still possible to pin point location behind it.

But what I'm saying is that there's still something in the way, the visibility shouldn't matter. I guess it's possible, but if itachi were to use ama on an invisible muu I feel like it would still hit him.

Might I also add that the pollen of the tree means absolutely nothing to Obito? Instead of being intangible, he could easily teleport away from it.

Pretty much, with the aid of his sharingan teleporting away in time should be easy, but the GM itself should be tall enough where the pollen won't affect him.

Your whole argument revolves around the Gedo and thinking Madara needs PS to deal with it when he can just summon a couple meteors.

Meteors? Nah, they're slow. Obito warps as far away as he did

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, & re-summons the gedo. Then as madara's recovering obito warps behind him.

 

[Beans2]

Full intel on kamui and mokuton bunshins give Madara the win in Scenario 1.
PS slashes and Mokuryu take care of paths in Scenario 2.

 

[Demonic.]

Meteors? Nah, they're slow. Obito warps as far away as he did

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, & re-summons the gedo. Then as madara's recovering obito warps behind him.

This is how you know you lost an argument. There's a little thing called BFR which gives Madara the win.

 

[Draphsin]

This is how you know you lost an argument. There's a little thing called BFR which gives Madara the win.

Lmfao I didn't lose anything, allow me to teach you what a BFR actually means.

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"If the battle arena has established physical boundaries that the fighters aren't allowed to cross, then a BFR can be achieved by forcing the other person to cross those boundaries."

Since there are no established boundaries that obito isn't allowed to cross, then he can't lose to a BFR via the traditional method.

"If the battlefield doesn't have established physical boundaries, generally, it's done by trapping the other person in another time or dimension.'

Since madara can't trap obito in another time/dimension, obito can't lose to a BFR via the unorthodox method.

 

[AlphaScythian]

He doesn't need to. Distracting Obito with Bunshin, and having him wrap the clone in which Obito becomes solid to do so, Madara takes his chance to kill him during that moment.

I always go WTF when people seem to think Obito has to warp everybody, he can just as easily stab that clone U_U

But what I'm saying is that there's still something in the way, the visibility shouldn't matter. I guess it's possible, but if itachi were to use ama on an invisible muu I feel like it would still hit him.

Itachi still can see chakra of Muu, but lets say he couldnt and want to target someone behind invisible Muu, then he would succeed. Because ama doesnt travalel LOS but appears on focal spot.

 

[adeshina365]

Sasuke solos.

 

[Waltz]

...Obito loses both; he cannot resist against Black zetsu's Material which happened to be vividly flowing through his body----an element Madara controls at will. It is a counter for Kamui and the greatest of reasons as to why Madara triumph's both scenarios without an extended effort. ​

 

[AlphaScythian]

...Obito loses both; he cannot resist against Black zetsu's Material which happened to be vividly flowing through his body----an element Madara controls at will. It is a counter for Kamui and the greatest of reasons as to why Madara triumph's both scenarios without an extended effort. ​

Which he did resist and madara has to be stationary to form?

 

[Waltz]

Which he did resist and madara has to be stationary to form?

Alpha...he didn't resist against it. Madara was using the material to manipulate Obitio into perform the Rinne-Tensei-Jutsu; he did not resist against the manipulation [

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]. Even to this point [

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] we see Obito "shivering" and unable to resist being almost fully manipulated. ​

 

[AlphaScythian]

Alpha...he didn't resist against it. Madara was using the material to manipulate Obitio into perform the Rinne-Tensei-Jutsu; he did not resist against the manipulation [

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]. Even to this point [

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] we see Obito "shivering" and unable to resist being almost fully manipulated. ​

How didnt he resist it if he was doing the seal he wanted all along and even madara said he failed?

Furthermore you dont even take into account that Obito was wounded minding his own business, yet managed to resist.

And of course as i said madara has to be focused and stationary to perform it, its no use and easily rendered useless by intangibility or warp away from reach.

 

[Demonic.]

Lmfao I didn't lose anything, allow me to teach you what a BFR actually means.

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Since there are no established boundaries that obito isn't allowed to cross, then he can't lose to a BFR via the traditional method.



Since madara can't trap obito in another time/dimension, obito can't lose to a BFR via the unorthodox method.

BFR is always in play in these versus threads or you have retards saying Minato FTGs to the leaf village, or to Mt. Myoboku. This other clown said Obito can warp to his lab and continue implanting Sharingan into himself to use for Izanagi.

Just stop

 

[AlphaScythian]

BFR is always in play in these versus threads or you have retards saying Minato FTGs to the leaf village, or to Mt. Myoboku. This other clown said Obito can warp to his lab and continue implanting Sharingan into himself to use for Izanagi.

Just stop

Its a bit different with minato thou.

His konoha and other locations etc can be regarded as part of preparation due to beforehand mark there so buff. While Obito can always teleport whenever wherever thus it would be nerfing him.