[Theory] Rinnegan & Hagormo's True Power!

Shinato

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Rinnegan ( Facts )
There have been a lot of people lately saying that the way to unlock the Rinnegan is by combining the DNA from the two original clans of Hagoromo, which is false. It was stated that in order to attain the Rinnegan, one needed to combine the powers of the two clans again. People seem to assume that this means the DNA of both clans as the power of the Senju comes from their DNA. Let me explain why this isn't the same for the Uchiha Clan, as it is really simple.

The Senju clan is known for their strong lifeforce, healing and overall physical status. This is because they inherited the body of Hagoromo , the Rikudou Sennin. This is why the DNA is their "source" of power when someone wants to mix it to make the Rinnegan. Though it was never stated if you needed a specific part in order to obtain the Rinnegan, it may be that you need something more than a hair, blood or skin tissue. ( I think that you do need something more valuable, but that belong in a different topic )

Now over to the Uchiha's source of power. As we all know, they inherited the eyes and Spiritual Chakra of Hagoromo. Which logically makes their source of power the Sharingan that they hold. This is why the theories that states that Naruto will awaken the Rinnegan are so stupid. Again let me briefly explain:

In order to awaken the Rinnegan, one needs the DNA of the Senju and the Sharingan of the Uchiha. Naruto already has the DNA of the Senju as he is of the same lineage. ( The fact that Uzumaki's have the same power as the Senju is proven, as Madara stated that; "One requires the DNA of the Senju in order to control the Rinnegan" and Nagato Uzumaki was able to control the Rinnegan.

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Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki
Its been speculations about how strong Hagoromo really was, and I personally think that he was on pair with Madara or weaker than him. Why do I believe this? Well its kinda obvious once you think about it. Though in order to explain it, I will need to dive a little into a theory so bare with me.

( Theory )

When Hagoromo first parted the Juubi/Shinju into the 9 Bijuu's, we saw them as a younger and smaller versions of themselves, we also know that a Bijuu is a being of pure chakra, nothing else. This leads me to believe that the Juubi which Hagoromo defeated was a lot weaker than the one who has been displayed in the war currently. The reason why I say this is because Chakra = power and if the Bijuu's which made up the Juubi/Shinju during Hagoromo's time was smaller then that means they had less power at the time and that they are more powerful now. ( Same as a child that grows )

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As you can see, the size of the Bijuu's are very different. ( Compare to a human being, give or take a few Cm here or there ) We also know that a Bijuu is smaller depending on its chakra, as seen when Minato seals away half of Kurama during Naruto's birth.

Now I would also like to say a little bit about the Juubi which lacked Kurama and Hachi which we have now seen in action. We all know that chakra regenerate over-time, and at the time of its revival Obito said that he wanted to revive it in its full state. We also got to know that its final stage and full state is the Shinju, which it achieved after Obito sealed it. This means that the Bijuu that we saw inside of Obito was the full thing. ( Not a weaker version as so many believe )

But how can a creature regain missing chakra that isn't even in its body? It simple, its given a taste of the chakra. Obito fed the Gedo Mazou parts of Kurama and Hachi's chakra. Thus the creatures used that source to duplicate the chakra until it reached its final stage.
 

VongolaX

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Stopped at that first scan.

It clearly stated why Nagato didn't have complete power over the Gedo.

Madara said you can't awaken the rinnegan with both uchiha and senju power, and can't control the mazo properly.

However, just by being uchiha and senju power you can still use the Mazou.

At the bottom he says I will teach you all these techniques, but when using the six path Justus you need to use the black rod/chakra receivers.

Nagato has no uchiha powers
 

Shinato

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Stopped at that first scan.

It clearly stated why Nagato didn't have complete power over the Gedo.

Madara said you can't awaken the rinnegan with both uchiha and senju power, and can't control the mazo properly.

However, just by being uchiha and senju power you can still use the Mazou.

At the bottom he says I will teach you all these techniques, but when using the six path Justus you need to use the black rod/chakra receivers.

Nagato has no uchiha powers


The power of the Senju = DNA.
The power of the Uchiha = Eyes.

Nagato did have both, and to your "fact" about him not being able to control the Mazou properly. I guess you are referring to the chapter where he summons it after Yahiko's death. I honestly think that just happened because Kishi needed a way to explain why Nagato used bodies as his Paths instead of himself.

( You should read the rest of the thread too, as it covers other parts than the Rinnegan )
 

OfficialRikudouSennin

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:| SORRY WORST THEORY I READ

Specially when you said the sage was on par and weaker hell no he was a walking God
 

Shinato

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:| SORRY WORST THEORY I READ

Specially when you said the sage was on par and weaker hell no he was a walking God

He fought an defeated a Juubi that was something around 3 times as weak, Madara could easily have beaten a 3 time weaker Juubito.
 

accept pain

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Stopped at that first scan.

It clearly stated why Nagato didn't have complete power over the Gedo.

Madara said you can't awaken the rinnegan with both uchiha and senju power, and can't control the mazo properly.

However, just by being uchiha and senju power you can still use the Mazou.

At the bottom he says I will teach you all these techniques, but when using the six path Justus you need to use the black rod/chakra receivers.

Nagato has no uchiha powers

nagato don't want pathetic uchiha and senju DNA
 

VongolaX

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The power of the Senju = DNA.
The power of the Uchiha = Eyes.

Nagato did have both, and to your "fact" about him not being able to control the Mazou properly. I guess you are referring to the chapter where he summons it after Yahiko's death. I honestly think that just happened because Kishi needed a way to explain why Nagato used bodies as his Paths instead of himself.

( You should read the rest of the thread too, as it covers other parts than the Rinnegan )

Alright buddy, take it easy...

Let's start off with the theory, that uchiha power= sharingan only.

Danzo (for an example), had senju DNA but he couldn't use the full power of inzangi and he couldn't control so many

Sharingans properly without high chakra to maintain Hashirama's cells.

Tobimaru says that an uchiha's power activates, when they release a special chakra from the brain to the optic nerves manifesting the sharingan.

Meaning the power of Uchiha is in the brain, the eyes are a reflection of their current level.
(Which explains why Madara used Susanoo blind).

^^ Nagato lacked all of those

I can even bring up the Kakashi case with tsukyomi...

I read the rest of the thread, but let us take it one step at a time.
 
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OfficialRikudouSennin

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He fought an defeated a Juubi that was something around 3 times as weak, Madara could easily have beaten a 3 time weaker Juubito.

:| just stop please.......Juubi was the god of the earthc madara can't do that's why he waited duh
 

VongolaX

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nagato don't want pathetic uchiha and senju DNA

And that's why he died to sage mode.

While the full power of the rikudou Justus, swallowed up Hashirama's Sage mode chakra whole.

(Madara)
 

Seventh Sama

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There's so much wrong in this thread.... Zzz
 

Revengedace

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Rinnegan ( Facts )

But how can a creature regain missing chakra that isn't even in its body? It simple, its given a taste of the chakra. Obito fed the Gedo Mazou parts of Kurama and Hachi's chakra. Thus the creatures used that source to duplicate the chakra until it reached its final stage.

If this is true then with all of the Jinchurikis giving naruto chakra wouldn't that chakra they gave him age into something more? and thus giving naruto a power up?
 

Shinato

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If this is true then with all of the Jinchurikis giving naruto chakra wouldn't that chakra they gave him age into something more? and thus giving naruto a power up?

No, as it would require Naruto to mold and recreate the missing chakra.
 

VongolaX

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If this is true then with all of the Jinchurikis giving naruto chakra wouldn't that chakra they gave him age into something more? and thus giving naruto a power up?

It gave naruto enough chakra to fight throughout the war.
 

Transcendence

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This is why the theories that states that Naruto will awaken the Rinnegan are so stupid.

Ahem...

It was clearly stated that Hagoromo was born from his mother . Your claim is as farcial as can be. Hagoromo's initial Pre-Jinchuriki powers (and by-extension; his Jinchuriki abilities) stem from the Juubi in every way, shape and form. The sons abilities stem from the Juubi, as that linked scan is a feat of the Shinju (Juubi) and it is almost exactly alike and likened to the same jutsu; Wood Dragon, utilized by Senju Hashirama. Therefore, the reason a Senju/Uchiha may awaken the Rin'negan is due to the power stemming from the original bloodline (Hagoromo) who's powers in his entire life, were entirely rooted within the Juubi as he was both born with the Shinju's essence via Kaguya AND he was the Juubi's first Jinchuriki. Reconvening the two bloodlines that came from such a bloodline yields the Dojutsu only made possibly by the Juubi's/Shinju's (one in the same) chakra; The Rin'negan. Naruto has/will have the necessary chakra to mirror the Sons as he has the chakra from Bijuu's 2-7, along with Kurama's chakra, and if obvious indications suggests what it is suggesting, Shukaku and Gyuki gave/were preparing to give Naruto the remainder of chakra needed, to become a Pseudo Rikudou.

:coffee:
 

VongolaX

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Ahem...

It was clearly stated that Hagoromo was born from his mother . Your claim is as farcial as can be. Hagoromo's initial Pre-Jinchuriki powers (and by-extension; his Jinchuriki abilities) stem from the Juubi in every way, shape and form. The sons abilities stem from the Juubi, as that linked scan is a feat of the Shinju (Juubi) and it is almost exactly alike and likened to the same jutsu; Wood Dragon, utilized by Senju Hashirama. Therefore, the reason a Senju/Uchiha may awaken the Rin'negan is due to the power stemming from the original bloodline (Hagoromo) who's powers in his entire life, were entirely rooted within the Juubi as he was both born with the Shinju's essence via Kaguya AND he was the Juubi's first Jinchuriki. Reconvening the two bloodlines that came from such a bloodline yields the Dojutsu only made possibly by the Juubi's/Shinju's (one in the same) chakra; The Rin'negan. Naruto has/will have the necessary chakra to mirror the Sons as he has the chakra from Bijuu's 2-7, along with Kurama's chakra, and if obvious indications suggests what it is suggesting, Shukaku and Gyuki gave/were preparing to give Naruto the remainder of chakra needed, to become a Pseudo Rikudou.

:coffee:

Not even...

The ocular power of uchiha lies within the brain of an uchiha.

While obviously the senju is in the body.

Naruto fusing 2-7 bijuus in his body will just enhance his life energy.

Giving him the "body," of the sage only.

He lacks the will of the sage, which is uchiha yin manifestation.
Examples: Madara's black rods and Obito's black orbs.
 

Transcendence

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Not even...

The ocular power of uchiha lies within the brain of an uchiha.

While obviously the senju is in the body.

Naruto fusing 2-7 bijuus in his body will just enhance his life energy.

Giving him the "body," of the sage only.

He lacks the will of the sage, which is uchiha yin manifestation.
Examples: Madara's black rods and Obito's black orbs.

Baseless claim, albeit, I am aware of your Point of View. The Uchiha's Yin manifestation comes from Rikudou's split Yin and Yang. And by-product of that is supplemented by what Rikudou was born with; Kaguya's abilities inherited from the Juubi. Nothing denounces my claim nor supports yours.
 

VongolaX

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Baseless claim, albeit, I am aware of your Point of View. The Uchiha's Yin manifestation comes from Rikudou's split Yin and Yang. And by-product of that is supplemented by what Rikudou was born with; Kaguya's abilities inherited from the Juubi. Nothing denounces my claim nor supports yours.

So basically everything Tobirama said, was a pointless chapter and you would rather clinge on to a baseless theory instead?

Baseless claims indeed, my friend :|
 
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Transcendence

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So basically everything a Tobirama said, was a pointless chapter and you would rather clinge on to a baseless theory instead?

Baseless claims indeed, my friend :|

The chapter you are referencing has to do with the activation for the SHARINGAN, not the Rinnegan. They share nothing in common beyond being part of an evolution chain that is extremely diluted.

What do you not understand about my easily worded statement? The only reason that the Uchiha's have said Yin manifestation is due to Hagoromo splitting his chakra into Yin and Yang between his son. It is directly linked the Juubi (The Sharingan) due to Hagoromo's son (Elder). Getting his Yin from his father is essentially getting pure Yin from the Juubi, and that gave rise to the Sharingan down the line. If someone (Naruto) were to reconvene in this case; the Juubi's chakra, he would achieve the similar if not outright same effects that Hagoromo had when Kaguya bore him; the Rin'negan. It is essentially the same concept as recombining the Senju and Uchiha DNA to awaken it. They both originate from the Juubi and would yield the same result; the Rin'negan.
 

VongolaX

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The chapter you are referencing has to do with the activation for the SHARINGAN, not the Rinnegan. They share nothing in common beyond being part of an evolution chain that is extremely diluted.

What do you not understand about my easily worded statement? The only reason that the Uchiha's have said Yin manifestation is due to Hagoromo splitting his chakra into Yin and Yang between his son. It is directly linked the Juubi (The Sharingan) due to Hagoromo's son (Elder). Getting his Yin from his father is essentially getting pure Yin from the Juubi, and that gave rise to the Sharingan down the line. If someone (Naruto) were to reconvene in this case; the Juubi's chakra, he would achieve the similar if not outright same effects that Hagoromo had when Kaguya bore him; the Rin'negan. It is essentially the same concept as recombining the Senju and Uchiha DNA to awaken it. They both originate from the Juubi and would yield the same result; the Rin'negan.

The Sharingan ascends to what____

Madara awaken the Rinnegan, through the methods I'm posting.

The sage is unknown.

The logical approach is to believe that the juubi is where ocular power originated.

However, in the manga was it stated that the juubi started the rinnegan?

For all we know, the tomoes on the rings could be a completely different than the rinnegan itself.

You're using theories of how the juubi had the rinnegan which passed it to A and the other to B.

Where is the scan?

It's sad really, that you couldn't comprehend this in my previous post...

There goes simple your simple reading comprehension skills :|
 
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