Rikudou Sennin Is Definitely An Uzumaki

[KingHashirama]

It is merely conjecture in your part, she said relatives, not descendants, and which Zetsu says as "lineage" which could or could not mean descendant, then by the application of Occam's Razor, the intended meaning of "lineage" is most certainly Kinship. and no, Madara's eyes were originally pure Uchiha dna composition, but since he injected Senju DNA within him, then it only follows through biochemical process that the Rinnegan is both Senju and Uchiha DNA, you seem to be under the assumption that the Rinnegan eye of Madara is still purely Uchiha DNA after awakening it, that's wrong, they are both the dna composition of the Uchiha's and the Senju's, and the control and wielding the Rinnegan does not entail solely upon the possession of Senju DNA but by both. Uchiha and Senju DNA. Look at this logically, the genetic material of both the Uchiha and Senju ancestors came from where? the Sage of the Six Paths, therefore his genetic composition contains both Senju's and Uchiha's, and since the original Rinnegan was his, then the genetic dna composition of the Rinnegan eye contains both senju and uchiha dna. So it only follows, that this awakened Rinnegan by Madara must be of the same biological and genetic composition of the original Rinnegan: The Sage's eyes.

-Sigh- On my part, I'm going by the definitions of the word, and connecting the pieces together. You however are not going by the definition because you want to prove your theory. Also, I never stated that Kushina said they were descendents. I said Zetsu's statement PROVES that Uzumaki CLAN and the SENJU clan are related.

Occam's Razor does not refer to the interpretation of a SINGLE word, but instead a theory.

Logically, Uchiha should have Senju dna from birth, and the Senju should have Uchiha dna.

Manga fact: They don't.

Also, I never stated PURE Uchiha DNA, I stated Uchiha Dna, which you seem to agree on. But then keep contradicting yourself, when you fail to realize that to make the rinnegan work you also need a SENJU BODY

Unless your trying to imply Eyes = Body.

Eyes of Madara possessed the Uchiha dna , while the body of Nagato possessed the body to control the rinnegan.

And also, if the Uzumakis were a branch relative of the main Senju line, wouldn't have Kushina specified that? "We Uzumakis are descended from the great Senju Clan" but all she said was "The Uzumakis and Senjus are relatives" wouldn't it be more grammatically and contextually correct to point out that your off-branch clan came from your main branch one? she is talking of the Uzumakis and Senjus as relatives of equal footing, not inferior or descended from the Senjus in any way.

Linage, Relatives.... 2 words used to determine that they are connected, to each other's clan.. but not the Uchiha Clan. I think only those words are needed for Kishimoto to get his point through. Hey why doesn't Kishimoto simply state everything as it is , without using complex words. HE ALREADY CALLED THE UZUMAKI DESCENDANTS WHEN HE USED THE WORD "LINAGE".

Instead of saying "Nagato is a Senju descendant" , He stated "Nagato is from the Senju Linage".

SAME MEANING.

The funniest thing is that derp actually broke it down to simpler form,but debaters are not simplifyng their points,they are only confusing themselves
Like someone actually saying "no uzumaki is that op"
And also
no uber duper seal comes from the Uzumaki!
really?have you seen RDS
kushina have the same ability as Gedo
Why is it that you have to put an Uzumaki mask on your face while standing infront of the uchiha tablet before summoning the RDG
Kakashi having a sharingan doesn't mean he has uchiha Dna...if he does,he won't faint anytime he uses kamui,would he?
Seriously kishi has always proved to us anything can happen in his manga.

If you had read the manga, you would know the Uchiha tablet plays no important role in the seal.

Kushina did not have same ability as the Gedo, 2 different techniques. Its like comparing Chidori, to Raikage's lightening spear.

Sharingan is uchiha dna....

Anything can happen in any manga, so why use Manga "facts". And when those things happen then i'll believe you. The fact in the manga is Uchiha +Senju = SO6P, and the Uzumaki = Senju

 

[Chatte]

Now I quite don't have time to debate now, however, I ask myself... why is it that hard to believe it if not only once, things pointed in that direction? Meaning of the Sage being an Uzumaki.
Also, if you'd have the raw of that page, would be great.
Sorry, but I trust more someone from the actual clan than someone outside it. Kushina said relatives.
Madara said that thing with the branch... Things don't match.
So, any raws?

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

-Sigh- On my part, I'm going by the definitions of the word, and connecting the pieces together. You however are not going by the definition because you want to prove your theory. Also, I never stated that Kushina said they were descendents. I said Zetsu's statement PROVES that Uzumaki CLAN and the SENJU clan are related.

Occam's Razor does not refer to the interpretation of a SINGLE word, but instead a theory.

Logically, Uchiha should have Senju dna from birth, and the Senju should have Uchiha dna.

Manga fact: They don't.

Also, I never stated PURE Uchiha DNA, I stated Uchiha Dna, which you seem to agree on. But then keep contradicting yourself, when you fail to realize that to make the rinnegan work you also need a SENJU BODY

Unless your trying to imply Eyes = Body.

Eyes of Madara possessed the Uchiha dna , while the body of Nagato possessed the body to control the rinnegan.



Linage, Relatives.... 2 words used to determine that they are connected, to each other's clan.. but not the Uchiha Clan. I think only those words are needed for Kishimoto to get his point through. Hey why doesn't Kishimoto simply state everything as it is , without using complex words. HE ALREADY CALLED THE UZUMAKI DESCENDANTS WHEN HE USED THE WORD "LINAGE".

Instead of saying "Nagato is a Senju descendant" , He stated "Nagato is from the Senju Linage".

SAME MEANING.

There seems to be a lack of coherency in your statement, it is you who said that eyes=body, what I was trying to imply was the Rinnegan = Uchiha+Senju DNA combined, since the Original Rinnegan is Senju+DNA combined inside the Sage who is the father of both ancestors, you are under the assumption that the Rinnegan after Madara awakened it was still fully comprised of Uchiha DNA which is false, and also, the bearer of the Rinnegan must have both Uchiha and Senju DNA, not Senju DNA only as you are trying to imply. And no, relatives does not equate to descendants, you could be relative or kin of another person without actually descending from him/her

 

[KingHashirama]

Now I quite don't have time to debate now, however, I ask myself... why is it that hard to believe it if not only once, things pointed in that direction? Meaning of the Sage being an Uzumaki.
Also, if you'd have the raw of that page, would be great.
Sorry, but I trust more someone from the actual clan than someone outside it. Kushina said relatives.
Madara said that thing with the branch... Things don't match.
So, any raws?

Zetsu said linage.

Zetsu > Kushina. Any day if it is about information.

There seems to be a lack of coherency in your statement, it is you who said that eyes=body, what I was trying to imply was the Rinnegan = Uchiha+Senju DNA combined, since the Original Rinnegan is Senju+DNA combined inside the Sage who is the father of both ancestors, you are under the assumption that the Rinnegan after Madara awakened it was still comprised of Uchiha DNA which is false, and also, the bearer of the Rinnegan must have both Uchiha and Senju DNA, not Senju DNA only as you are trying to imply.And no, relatives does not equate to descendants, you could be relative or kin of another person without actually descending from him/her

Wrong, I stated the Rinnegan was Madara's eye and Madara was a Uchiha, so automatically it had Uchiha dna, however to control the rinnegan, you need a Senju body. =]. Please try to understand what I state clearly. Relatives I agree do not equate descendants. But linage from Senju equates Uzumaki descend from the Senju.

However arguing and trying to manipulate Zetsu's words into your own way of thinking and going against the meaning of the word and making into kinship, which is not even close to the definition of linage, is a false misinterpretation on your part.

 

[JIRAIYA perv]

There seems to be a lack of coherency in your statement, it is you who said that eyes=body, what I was trying to imply was the Rinnegan = Uchiha+Senju DNA combined, since the Original Rinnegan is Senju+DNA combined inside the Sage who is the father of both ancestors, you are under the assumption that the Rinnegan after Madara awakened it was still comprised of Uchiha DNA which is false, and also, the bearer of the Rinnegan must have both Uchiha and Senju DNA, not Senju DNA only as you are trying to imply.

bro to AWAKEN the rinnegan you need both but to BEAR it and have control over it, you need SENJU DNA (you can have it implanted). so someone like madara who awakened the rinnegan and planted it in nagato who had control over it because of his DNA, aka senju, uzumaki ..... all the same to me lol

 

[Jukain]

nice

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Zetsu said linage.

Zetsu > Kushina. Any day if it is about information.





Wrong, I stated the Rinnegan was Madara's eye and Madara was a Uchiha, so automatically it had Uchiha dna, however to control the rinnegan, you need a Senju body. =]. Please try to understand what I state clearly.

For the sake of clarity let me ask you this: Are you under the assumption that the biological composition of Madara's eye in Rinnegan form is still of pure Uchiha DNA? that the Eye is Pure Uchiha's and the Body wielding it is pure Senju's?

bro to AWAKEN the rinnegan you need both but to BEAR it and have control over it, you need SENJU DNA (you can have it implanted).

No you need both DNAs inside you to use the Rinnegan in order to summon the Gedo Mazo.

 

[KingHashirama]

For the sake of clarity let me ask you this: Are you under the assumption that the biological composition of Madara's eye in Rinnegan form is still of pure Uchiha DNA? that the Eye is Pure Uchiha's and the Body wielding it is pure Senju's?




[/SIZE]

Madara's eyes = Uchiha eyes

Madara's body = Senju body

Having both of those caused him to unlock the Rinnegan.

 

[new sage of 6 paths]

Am done,I can't believe I went straight throughout the midnight without sleeping....Am really OP.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Madara's eyes = Senju and Uchiha.

Ok, so if Madara's Rinnegan eyes are Senju and Uchihas, and his body is Senju and Uchihas from implanting Hashirama's cells, then doesn't it follow that his chosen successor/wielder of his eyes must be also containing both Uchiha and Senju DNA?

 

[KingHashirama]

Am done,I can't believe I went straight throughout the midnight without sleeping....Am really OP.

lol i'm bout to leave after 1 or 2 more posts ;D. This thread i like

Ok, so if Madara's Rinnegan eyes are Senju and Uchihas, and his body is Senju and Uchihas, then doesn't it follow that his chosen successor/wielder of his eyes must be also containing both Uchiha and Senju DNA?

I edited my post:

Madara's eyes = UChiha
Madara's body = Senju

Having both of those unlocked the rinnegan.

The wielder of his eyes already has the Senju Dna, and he got the Uchiha Dna from Madara's eyes.

 

[new sage of 6 paths]

Ok, so if Madara's Rinnegan eyes are Senju and Uchihas, and his body is Senju and Uchihas from implanting Hashirama's cells, then doesn't it follow that his chosen successor/wielder of his eyes must be also containing both Uchiha and Senju DNA?

Yeah! I get it,to be compatible with the eyes,just like EMS,you must be of the same DNA composition!

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

lol i'm bout to leave after 1 or 2 more posts ;D. This thread i like



I edited my post:

Madara's eyes = UChiha
Madara's body = Senju

Having both of those unlocked the rinnegan.

The wielder of his eyes already has the Senju Dna, and he got the Uchiha Dna from Madara's eyes.

So, you are saying that prior to Madara giving Nagato the Rinnegan, his only prerequisite was that he has Senju DNA within him without needing Uchiha DNA? and that the Rinnegan per se can be wielded by someone possessing only Senju DNA? Is that what you are trying to say? and are you trying to say that the Rinnegan is composed purely of Uchiha DNA and not Senju's? but what about the Sage, he had the original eyes and he had both Senju and Uchiha DNA within him, which would make his Rinnegan composed of both Senju and Uchiha DNAs combined,how do you resolve this apparent anomaly that it can be wielded by someone who only possesses Senju DNA? instead of both uchiha and senju dna regardless of Madara's awakened Rinnegan since I am speaking of the original Rinnegan which the Sage had?

 

[KingHashirama]

So, you are saying that prior to Madara giving Nagato the Rinnegan, his only prerequisite was that he has Senju DNA within him without needing Uchiha DNA? and that the Rinnegan per se can be wielded by someone possessing only Senju DNA? Is that what you are trying to say?

Yea, the eyes of rinnegan automatically have Uchiha DNA. So if you have the rinnegan implanted to you, while you have Senju Dna, you can wield them.

Also, I'm out for the night bro, thanks for the debate . If your on tommorow lets continue it tomorrow, i'll let you know when i'm on ;D

 

[Nakamazi Itchigo]

Very well thought again, you really are schooling us xd.. I just have a little problem with your "update 2" when you say, if he didn't possess both Uchiha and Senju his Rinnegan powers would be lacking; I don't think that's the case, it's true in order awaken and use Madara's eyes he would need a strong linage (Uzumaki) but the extent of the powers I think lies with the one who has awaken them. Take Kakashi for example, it wasn't his eye yet the extent of the powers was of his own making not Obito's and Kakashi's powers are not lacking even though he is not of Uchiha descent.

 

[Regulus]

Zetsu said linage.

Zetsu > Kushina. Any day if it is about information.

Yes because if I won't to know something about you or your family I'd ask someone else and not you or your family. Normally Zetsu has better information, but I'm sure Kushina would have more information about her own clan.

 

[KingHashirama]

Yes because if I won't to know something about you or your family I'd ask someone else and not you or your family. Normally Zetsu has better information, but I'm sure Kushina would have more information about her own clan.

Too bad Kushina was a child when she was taken from her family. And too bad Madara existed when all the 3 clans existed, as clans ;].

Clan stuff is not just Kushina.... Uzumaki clan, Senju clan and Uchiha clan are all related through SO6P.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Yea, the eyes of rinnegan automatically have Uchiha DNA. So if you have the rinnegan implanted to you, while you have Senju Dna, you can wield them.

Also, I'm out for the night bro, thanks for the debate . If your on tommorow lets continue it tomorrow, i'll let you know when i'm on ;D

Ok, thanks bye, anyways


My position on the matter is this: The Sage of the Six Paths was the progenitor of the Senjus and

Uchiha Ancestors, and since the original Rinnegan was his, then the biological and genetic

composition of the Original Rinnegan is comprised of both Senju and Uchiha DNA, and if the

method of awakening them in a new eye is combining both Senju and Uchiha DNA in one body,

then the biological and genetic composition of Madara's awakened Rinnegan must also be the combined

DNA of the Senjus' and the Uchihas', and since the original wielder of the Rinnegan is the Sage,

who has both the two DNAS, and the awakened Rinnegan of Madara's is comprised of both Senju

and Uchiha DNA that awakened from his body that have both DNAs, then it only logically follows

that Madara's Rinnegan itself mutated into having both Senju and Uchiha DNA like the original's,

therefore, if that is so, and the awakening of the Rinnegan and the summoning of the Gedo Mazo

requires the Rinnegan wielder to possess both DNAS, then it only naturally follows that Madara's

chosen successor: Nagato, must have both Uchiha and Senju DNA within him, since, the

implanting of the Rinnegan does not make Nagato's body as a combination of both Uchiha and

Senju DNA, since that is only achieved by the injection of Uchiha or Senju DNA cells within oneself

which is the method Madara used to awaken the Rinnegan in his eye in the first place. So in

conclusion, it's most probable that the body of Nagato, the host, which has Senju dna through his

Uzumaki Heritage, must also have Uchiha DNA prior from the implantation of the Rinnegan

in him, to be faithful to the emulation of the genetic composition of the wielder of the original Rinnegan: Rikudou Sennin. The question therefore of the Uzumaki bloodline is resolved by the theory that the Uzumaki blood contains both the dna material of

Senju and Uchiha which links their heritage to the Sage of the Six Paths who is most probably an Uzumaki himself.

 

[KuroKaze]

Re: Rikudou and Uzumaki: Sealing Jutsus

brilliant....it is really plausible....great work...

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Re: Rikudou and Uzumaki: Sealing Jutsus

brilliant....it is really plausible....great work...

Thanks