Reinforcement: GUY SENSEI!!!

[Phoenix Wright]

but he isn't kage level

Because an idiot Raikage (Gai has way more brain than him), weak Tsunade, Gaara whose sand gets one-handed by Gai and Mei who practically didn't proved herself at all are Kage-Level, right? Noone of them could beat Kisame 1 vs 1.

No mention of Oonoki because he's the only Kage worth of his title, rest are weak crap.

Gai would totally hummilitate all of them.

I hate how this thread is constantly spammed by Itachi Namikaze and iamdsixth who completely know nothing about what they're talking about.

Funny how Itachi Namikaze also mentioned "Oonoki" in his Anti-Gai argument. Seems that even you proved that only Tsuchikage is worth of his title. Rest of current Kages are massive failure.

 

[psukkar]

Because an idiot Raikage (Gai has way more brain than him), weak Tsunade, Gaara whose sand gets one-handed by Gai and Mei who practically didn't proved herself at all are Kage-Level, right? Noone of them could beat Kisame 1 vs 1.

No mention of Oonoki because he's the only Kage worth of his title, rest are weak crap.

Gai would totally hummilitate all of them.

I hate how this thread is constantly spammed by Itachi Namikaze and iamdsixth who completely know nothing about what they're talking about.

Funny how Itachi Namikaze also mentioned "Oonoki" in his Anti-Gai argument. Seems that even you proved that only Tsuchikage is worth of his title. Rest of current Kages are massive failure.

See this post itachi kazkage dude is a good post.


YES, some1 finally said it. The kage of this generation such and the only one that is good ironicly is the same generation of the third hokage, thrid riakage etc.



Kage level is a vague term, if garra is kage level then what the hell is the third raikage? God level?

Where are u going to draw the line? did u know kahashi was about to be hokage. Isnt he kage level? so he rival gai must also be right?

U need to give credit where its due itachikaze.

 

[Sarutobi Sasuke]

Of course adding anyone as a reinforcement would help the kages, but the Gates power is not exponential. That is not how they work at all.

According to the manga, a ninja normally uses 20% of their total chakra at an given time. That is what the chakra points are for in the chakra pathways. (this is what the Hyuuga hit with Gentle Fist to block chakra)

Anyway, there are 8 Gates, and each Gate allows for 10% more of the user's total chakra to be used at once, starting at the base 20% and moving up to 100%.

There are a few side-affects of this, like increased healing when first opening the Gates, increased blood flow, etc. but those don't really do much.

Where most of the power comes from is the user augmenting their speed and strength with chakra. Every ninja does it. Some do it for long periods of time, such as Naruto, Bee, and A.

Thus the more Gates that are opened, the more chakra can be used at once, thus making the user faster and stronger by augmenting those traits with even more chakra.

Follow me so far?

Since each Gate allows for more chakra to be used at once though, the time a user can stay in the Gates decreases with every Gate they open. I would assume it would be 1/8th of the time less for every Gate that opens, as there are only 8 Gates, but I guess it depends on what the user does while in the Gates. They could just stand there and not exert any chakra and theoretically stay in the 8 Gates forever.

That being said, Guy is thus limited by his chakra. Unlike A, Naruto, and Bee, all of whom have bijuu level chakras normally, with Bee and Naruto also having an actual bijuu inside of them to add to that, it is literally impossible for Guy to go as fast as them while in the Gates.

Do you see why I say people overrate the Gates?

I see what you mean. Nice explanation. +rep.

I'm not trolling but I just thought of something.

if E=mv^2
then v=√(E/m)
and if E=chakra then: ​

...that would make the increase in speed inversely exponential, proportional to the linear increase of chakra when unlocking the gates. Which means that the increase in speed becomes less significant each time a gate is opened. But only if those speeds are significant fractions of the speed of light. Otherwise its all insignificant. IOW it just supports your point.

Anyway, opening the first gate alone would give you a 50% increase in chakra. Because an increase from 20% to 30% is a 50% increase. Which, according to your linear increase explanation, means that opening all 8 gates would provide a 400% increase in chakra. But one's stamina would be reduced to 20% of it usual fighting time limit.

 

[Aze]

Guy should have Uzumaki Karins regenerate tech + Narutos stamina dna = 8 gates without geting killed = beast

 

[psukkar]

oh and th gates powerup is exponenal because the differences between 5,6 anmd 7 gates are huge. And even gai said comparing his 7 gate tiger move to his peacock 6 gate move is nothing.

And thats quite obvoius when the tiger took up the entile island when he fough kisame.

This itachi kaze guy is just failing all over the place, lol just though I'd mention this point about the gates.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

oh and th gates powerup is exponenal because the differences between 5,6 anmd 7 gates are huge. And even gai said comparing his 7 gate tiger move to his peacock 6 gate move is nothing.

And thats quite obvoius when the tiger took up the entile island when he fough kisame.

This itachi kaze guy is just failing all over the place, lol just though I'd mention this point about the gates.

I'm failing all over the place? How so? With my rational explanations that are backed up by statements in the manga?

Or is your whole logic that it looks bigger so it must be exponentially more powerful?

Do you even know what exponential means? Your inability to properly formulate sentences and understand simple concepts makes it seem like you don't.

I have explained the Gates, you can choose to believe it or not, but it is there in the manga. I remember you though, and you are one of those people who chooses to believe whatever they want instead of what is written by Kishi.

 

[Sarutobi Sasuke]

I'm failing all over the place? How so? With my rational explanations that are backed up by statements in the manga?

Or is your whole logic that it looks bigger so it must be exponentially more powerful?

Do you even know what exponential means? Your inability to properly formulate sentences and understand simple concepts makes it seem like you don't.

I have explained the Gates, you can choose to believe it or not, but it is there in the manga. I remember you though, and you are one of those people who chooses to believe whatever they want instead of what is written by Kishi.

I checked all that gate stuff and it seems that you might have gotten your "facts" mixed up a bit there. I cant find where it states that the increase is 10% per gate.

Spoiler

The Eight Gates.

1. The Gate of Opening (開門, Kaimon), located in the brain. This gate removes the restraints of the brain on the muscles so 100% of their strength can be used whereas normally, a person can only use 20% of their muscles' strength to keep them from disintegrating. Unlocking this gate allows the user to use the Front Lotus.
2. The Gate of Healing (休門, Kyūmon; English TV "The Gate of Rest"), located in the brain. Forcibly increases one's physical strength and temporarily re-energises the body.
3. The Gate of Life (生門, Seimon), located on the spinal cord. Allows the user to use the Reverse Lotus. The increased blood flow turns the skin red.
4. The Gate of Pain (傷門, Shōmon), located on the spinal cord. Increases the user's speed and power. May cause muscle tissue to tear on use.
5. The Gate of Limit (杜門, Tomon; English TV "The Gate of Closing"), located in the abdomen. Increases the user's speed and power.
6. The Gate of View (景門, Keimon; English TV "The Gate of Joy"), located in the stomach. Increases the user's speed and power. Allows the user to perform the Morning Peacock. Opening of this gate releases such enormous amounts of chakra that it can cause nearby water bodies to form a vortex around the user.
7. The Gate of Wonder (驚門, Kyōmon; English TV "The Gate of Shock"), located below the stomach. Further increases the user's speed and power. Allows the user to perform the Daytime Tiger. Those who open this gate will pour glowing blue sweat from every inch of their body, which immediately evaporates from their own heat energy, creating an aura which people would mistake as a blue chakra coating. Unfortunately, the side effects of opening the gate are that the user's muscle fibres are ripped to shreds, causing intense pain if anything or anyone touches them.
8. The Gate of Death (死門, Shimon), located at the heart. Releasing this gate uses up all of the body's energy. It makes the heart pump at maximum power and exceeds the power of every other gate. Opening this gate gives the user power that is even beyond the five Kage, but comes at the expense of the user's death shortly after.

 

[fastrthnwind]

Of course adding anyone as a reinforcement would help the kages, but the Gates power is not exponential. That is not how they work at all.

According to the manga, a ninja normally uses 20% of their total chakra at an given time. That is what the chakra points are for in the chakra pathways. (this is what the Hyuuga hit with Gentle Fist to block chakra)

Anyway, there are 8 Gates, and each Gate allows for 10% more of the user's total chakra to be used at once, starting at the base 20% and moving up to 100%.

There are a few side-affects of this, like increased healing when first opening the Gates, increased blood flow, etc. but those don't really do much.

Where most of the power comes from is the user augmenting their speed and strength with chakra. Every ninja does it. Some do it for long periods of time, such as Naruto, Bee, and A.

Thus the more Gates that are opened, the more chakra can be used at once, thus making the user faster and stronger by augmenting those traits with even more chakra.

Follow me so far?

Since each Gate allows for more chakra to be used at once though, the time a user can stay in the Gates decreases with every Gate they open. I would assume it would be 1/8th of the time less for every Gate that opens, as there are only 8 Gates, but I guess it depends on what the user does while in the Gates. They could just stand there and not exert any chakra and theoretically stay in the 8 Gates forever.

That being said, Guy is thus limited by his chakra. Unlike A, Naruto, and Bee, all of whom have bijuu level chakras normally, with Bee and Naruto also having an actual bijuu inside of them to add to that, it is literally impossible for Guy to go as fast as them while in the Gates.

Do you see why I say people overrate the Gates?

First off, people only use 20% of their muscles at any given time.

Now I am going by your logic of adding 10% more chakra each gate opened.

One thing that you aren't taking into consideration is that the 8th gate is more powerful than all of the other gates and will, therefore, grant more strength and speed than the others would. It's also not as steady of a power boost as you say it is, where, even in the 8th gate, they only gain just another 10% of their chakra. There are functions that go along with the release of the gates besides extra chakra.

1st:10% of chakra + they gain the use of all of their muscle power
2nd:10% of chakra + increases stamina
3rd:10% of chakra + increases blood flow and allows information to travel at a much faster rate along the nervous system(seems similar to raikages lightning armor, but probably less powerful)
4th:10% of chakra + increase in strength and speed
5th:10% of chakra + increase in strength and speed
6th:10% of chakra + increase in strength and speed
7th:10% of chakra + increase in strength and speed
8th:10% of chakra + causes the heart to beat at maximum power and exceeds the power of all the other gates

In the final gate Not only does he gain the rest of his chakra, but the heart also beats at maximum capacity. It is not speculation and is written down by Kishi as well.

About the quote, he will surpass all of the kage in speed and strength. It's not just a general statment about overall power as the gates grant speed and stength to the user. When saying greater than the kages, it means that he will surpass all of the kages in speed and strength, including speed demons(A) and monster strength freaks(Tsunade). The logic in this sentence goes like this:

When the user opens all of the gates, the user will be temorarily granted power greater than the kages. (Since gates grant both speed and strength, this is what categories the user will surpass them in.)

Since A is a kage, he will be surpassed.
In what category?
Since the gates grant speed greater than the kage, he will be surpassed in speed.
Therefore, Since A is a kage, he will be surpassed in speed.

Since Tsunade is a kage, she will be surpased
In what category?
Since the gates grant power greater than the kage, she will be surpassed in strength.
Therefore, Since Tsunade is a kage, she will be surpassed in strength.

I've been saving this explanation here for a long time just to show you good sir.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

First off, people only use 20% of their muscles at any given time.

Now I am going by your logic of adding 10% more chakra each gate opened.

One thing that you aren't taking into consideration is that the 8th gate is more powerful than all of the other gates and will, therefore, grant more strength and speed than the others would. It's also not as steady of a power boost as you say it is, where, even in the 8th gate, they only gain just another 10% of their chakra. There are functions that go along with the release of the gates besides extra chakra.

1st:10% of chakra + they gain the use of all of their muscle power
2nd:10% of chakra + increases stamina
3rd:10% of chakra + increases blood flow and allows information to travel at a much faster rate along the nervous system(seems similar to raikages lightning armor, but probably less powerful)
4th:10% of chakra + increase in strength and speed
5th:10% of chakra + increase in strength and speed
6th:10% of chakra + increase in strength and speed
7th:10% of chakra + increase in strength and speed
8th:10% of chakra + causes the heart to beat at maximum power and exceeds the power of all the other gates

In the final gate Not only does he gain the rest of his chakra, but the heart also beats at maximum capacity. It is not speculation and is written down by Kishi as well.

About the quote, he will surpass all of the kage in speed and strength. It's not just a general statment about overall power as the gates grant speed and stength to the user. When saying greater than the kages, it means that he will surpass all of the kages in speed and strength, including speed demons(A) and monster strength freaks(Tsunade). The logic in this sentence goes like this:

When the user opens all of the gates, the user will be temorarily granted power greater than the kages. (Since gates grant both speed and strength, this is what categories the user will surpass them in.)

Since A is a kage, he will be surpassed.
In what category?
Since the gates grant speed greater than the kage, he will be surpassed in speed.
Therefore, Since A is a kage, he will be surpassed in speed.

Since Tsunade is a kage, she will be surpased
In what category?
Since the gates grant power greater than the kage, she will be surpassed in strength.
Therefore, Since Tsunade is a kage, she will be surpassed in strength.

I've been saving this explanation here for a long time just to show you good sir.

And where did you get those explanations of the Gates? from Narutopedia?

I assume that is the only source you people have used.

Your argument is bad and you should feel bad.

Not all of the kages have the same strength, speed, powers, etc. and so that statement is wrong. The Gates cannot magically surpass every Kage that has ever existed in strength and speed. I've already explained why you are wrong. Believe it if you want to but it is true.

Perhaps you have heard of something called exaggeration? It is used all the time in the manga. I can point out tons of instances where someone says something and it isn't true, it is just hype.

And how does that apply to everyone? Let's say Konohamaru opened up all 8 Gates, would he then be faster than A and stronger than Tsunade?

Your argument are invalid. The Gates limit chakra usage, that is what they are there for.

The Gates aren't muscle Gates, they aren't intelligence Gates, they are CHAKRA GATES. Get this through your head people.

Those other things you listed are just speculation and observations made by people reading the manga, because guess what? NARUTOPEDIA ONLY HAS THE SAME RESOURCES WE DO.

 

[fastrthnwind]

And where did you get those explanations of the Gates? from Narutopedia?

I assume that is the only source you people have used.

Your argument is bad and you should feel bad.

Not all of the kages have the same strength, speed, powers, etc. and so that statement is bullshit. Just like your failure of an argument.

Perhaps you have heard of something called exaggeration? It is used all the time in the manga. I can point out tons of instances where someone says something and it isn't true, it is just hype.

And how does that apply to everyone? Let's say Konohamaru opened up all 8 Gates, would he then be faster than A and stronger than Tsunade?

Your argument are invalid. The Gates limit chakra usage, that is what they are there for.

The Gates aren't muscle Gates, they aren't intelligence Gates, they are CHAKRA GATES. Get this through your head people.

Those other things you listed are just speculation and observations made by people reading the manga, because guess what? NARUTOPEDIA ONLY HAS THE SAME RESOURCES WE DO.

Narutopedia happens to be a very reliable source of information. They use information from the databooks and the manga, which are both written by kishi, and therefore considered to be canon and true unless stated otherwise by kishi himself in the manga. There are very few instances where it they actually make speculation, but they do so using the facts from the manga itself.

Many of you statements are also considered "speculations" and "observations" by reading the manga if you put it that way.

About the statement with the kages, that statement refers to surpassing the kage in both speed and strength. The result is taijutsu on such a massive scale that it competely surpasses the "powers of the kage." Think of Hirudora for a second. It caused a massive shockwave that was bigger than the turtle island itself, and that was caused by just one really fast punch. Now think of that amplified even greater by the eigth gate.

If anyone else. like konohamaru, were to open the 8 gates, they could acces that kind of power, but their bodies haven't been trained to use such power for an extended peroid of time, and therefore, will collapse very quickly compared to guy and Lee who are trained to use it, and are more experienced with their after-effects. They also wouldn't be as strong or as fast as Guy or Lee since both of them are naturally faster than most people, and opening the gates increases their already incredible speed.

The gates limit the amount of chakra in the body, true, but the chakra network is closely intertwined with the funstions of he organs. Because of this, if the chakra network is affected, then the organs are directly affected as well. Lifting the limiters on the chakra gates also lifts the limiters on a persons bodily functions, such as the muscles, blood flow, and heart rate.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Narutopedia happens to be a very reliable source of information. They use information from the databooks and the manga, which are both written by kishi, and therefore considered to be canon and true unless stated otherwise by kishi himself in the manga. There are very few instances where it they actually make speculation, but they do so using the facts from the manga itself.

Many of you statements are also considered "speculations" and "observations" by reading the manga if you put it that way.

About the statement with the kages, that statement refers to surpassing the kage in both speed and strength. The result is taijutsu on such a massive scale that it competely surpasses the "powers of the kage." Think of Hirudora for a second. It caused a massive shockwave that was bigger than the turtle island itself, and that was caused by just one really fast punch. Now think of that amplified even greater by the eigth gate.

If anyone else. like konohamaru, were to open the 8 gates, they could acces that kind of power, but their bodies haven't been trained to use such power for an extended peroid of time, and therefore, will collapse very quickly compared to guy and Lee who are trained to use it, and are more experienced with their after-effects. They also wouldn't be as strong or as fast as Guy or Lee since both of them are naturally faster than most people, and opening the gates increases their already incredible speed.

The gates limit the amount of chakra in the body, true, but the chakra network is closely intertwined with the funstions of he organs. Because of this, if the chakra network is affected, then the organs are directly affected as well. Lifting the limiters on the chakra gates also lifts the limiters on a persons bodily functions, such as the muscles, blood flow, and heart rate.

The only way to augment speed and strength is by using chakra. That is the only way.

The Gates allows for more chakra to be used at once, to boost the speed and strength.

Chakra is half physical energy, so obviously the muscles are connected with that.

However it doesn't change the fact that everything I said was true. The Gates power is limited by the user's chakra. That is just a fact. You can be a Guy fanboy all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that your entire argument is based upon one line stated by Guy, that said "Powers greater than a kage" which is untrue and doesn't even make sense.

If you honestly can't tell that that is just hype then there is no point in continuing this discussion. It shouldn't be taken as fact, as it is a baseless claim that is entirely dependent on who is using the Gates, and which Kage they are being compared to.

 

[fastrthnwind]

The only way to augment speed and strength is by using chakra. That is the only way.

The Gates allows for more chakra to be used at once, to boost the speed and strength.

Chakra is half physical energy, so obviously the muscles are connected with that.

However it doesn't change the fact that everything I said was true. The Gates power is limited by the user's chakra. That is just a fact. You can be a Guy fanboy all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that your entire argument is based upon one line stated by Guy, that said "Powers greater than a kage" which is untrue and doesn't even make sense.

If you honestly can't tell that that is just hype then there is no point in continuing this discussion. It shouldn't be taken as fact, as it is a baseless claim that is entirely dependent on who is using the Gates, and which Kage they are being compared to.

The other way to increase strength and speed is to release the limits on the bodies functions. A person only uses 20% of their muscles at any given time. Release the limits on that and you can move faster and gain more strength at the cost of the muscles.

The gates release chakra for the user to use, and also releases limits on the body. The opening of the first gate itself is gives you 100% acces to your bodies muscles. Chakra is half physical energy, which is the stamina aspect of chakra. The more stamina you have, the greater amount of chakra you can usually produce.

The gates power is not limited by the amount chakra a person has because it also releases functions only the body, which virtually has no limits. It steadily releases more chakra throughout the body and, in doing so, releases the inhibitors throughout the body, such as muscles, blood flow and heart rate, like I said earlier. You cannot prove the line Guy said to be untrue because Kishi did not state anywhere, in the manga or the databooks, that the statement was wrong. It is hype because we havent seen it, but it is also a fact since it hasn't been proven wrong yet by Kishi himself.

I have even made sense of the statement where the persons taijutsu, speed, and power would be on such a massive scale that it would surpass the kages power.

 

[psukkar]

I'm failing all over the place? How so? With my rational explanations that are backed up by statements in the manga?

Or is your whole logic that it looks bigger so it must be exponentially more powerful?

Do you even know what exponential means? Your inability to properly formulate sentences and understand simple concepts makes it seem like you don't.

I have explained the Gates, you can choose to believe it or not, but it is there in the manga. I remember you though, and you are one of those people who chooses to believe whatever they want instead of what is written by Kishi.

tell u what dude,

I have a thread I made a long time ago at looks into each gate with 100% detail from the databooks and manga where possible of cousse. u'll see that the gates powerup incresasingly not linearly like u state. Ill repost it, and link it here.

You must be registered for see links

I probaly was out of line saying ur failing, but dude u really shouldnd be so stubborn. The gates are powerful for very the same reason all the hax jutsu is powerful, it kills the user. Kishi's powerups follow one simple pattern, if it kills or harms the user its is as a result a very powerful technique, other wise the whole idea of harming the user is pointless if the tech gives u nothing special. but anywahy look at that link, its all fact apart from the 8 gates stuff as we havent seen it.

 

[slaton02]

The only way to augment speed and strength is by using chakra. That is the only way.

The Gates allows for more chakra to be used at once, to boost the speed and strength.

Chakra is half physical energy, so obviously the muscles are connected with that.

However it doesn't change the fact that everything I said was true. The Gates power is limited by the user's chakra. That is just a fact. You can be a Guy fanboy all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that your entire argument is based upon one line stated by Guy, that said "Powers greater than a kage" which is untrue and doesn't even make sense.

If you honestly can't tell that that is just hype then there is no point in continuing this discussion. It shouldn't be taken as fact, as it is a baseless claim that is entirely dependent on who is using the Gates, and which Kage they are being compared to.

WRONG, WRONG,WRONG. You know nothing about the gates and everything you said is not true
Naruto would not be able to handle the gates, it's about your body not how much chakra your have, that's why gai and lee train for.Also it's the 2nd gate that heals you not the 1st Right now gai in the 8th gate is the best person to fight madara. Naruto using the kyuubi wouldn't work aginst madara (I think it has something to do with his sharigan can't remember.)his attach are not made of chakra so it can't be absorbed like the kages .If he lands evening dragon (8th gate technique)on madara they should be able to seal him. I find it funny you say naruto would be better with the gates than gai. Drinking that hatorade you got school by someone who knows the power of the gates

 

[D3A]

Gai and Raikage would be a good teamup while the other kages back them up, BUT you forget one important detail.

Madara is an Uchiha, Kishi will never let anything beat him. The gates will look like trash against Madara because Kishi willed it, and I'd hate for Guy to get Kishimoto'd