Reincarnation

Nebula

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Seems like there were a few people saying the brother can be Sasuke and madara or something.
Not sure if people understand reincarnation so I'll make it simple.

The way reincarnation works is the person dies and the spirit starts a life in a new body.
The spirit waits until they can be born in the body they are basically destined to be.
That spirit cannot live through two people at the same time.
Madz can't be the same person as Sasuke.
Hashirama can't be Naruto.
 

Cerise

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Both Hashirama and Madara are technically dead and would have been dead by the time Naruto and Sasuke were born.

Hashirama compared Sasuke to Madara's brother though, so that could be a connection.
 

Erebus

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The spirits keep jumping trying to achieve their goals
 

Dreckerplayer

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Which means,

Hashirama, whom was born special, was never the Ashura's reincarnation, and that either madara or sasuke is Indra's reincarnation.
 

TimothyTheTomato

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Both Hashirama and Madara are technically dead and would have been dead by the time Naruto and Sasuke were born.

Hashirama compared Sasuke to Madara's brother though, so that could be a connection.
Hashis soul is in the edo body
 

Joseph Gomes

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1 thing i can say, hashi is not ashura's incarnation. he's born genius with mokuton...
 

CDT23

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Sasuke is indra's reincarnation. Indra is the hindu god of rain and thunder storm... and guess who produced a thunder storm?
 

IcedFox

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Technically Hashirama is still dead, though his soul is now bound via Edo Tensei.
With Madara I get the point, since he's alive and well now.

I just wonder who Sausage will meet.
 

IcedFox

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1 thing i can say, hashi is not ashura's incarnation. he's born genius with mokuton...

Hashirama was not a born Genius, and only later developed Mokuton. Also, he always had a thing where he valued peace over warfare.
 

Cerise

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Hashis soul is in the edo body

I personally think the only connection between Hashirama and Naruto is relatives, but if Kishimoto is trying to imply otherwise then he misunderstood reincarnation.

The battle between the brothers does mirror Hashirama's battle with Madara though, and Naruto and Sasuke's, so it seems like the same souls are battling in different bodies through time, but when you get into reincarnation things can get tricky or confusing.

We don't know much about the sage's brother so his soul could be playing a part too. 670 didn't reveal everything.
 
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Nebula

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Think of the spirit or whatever as the subconscious.
Naruto has everything ashura knows in his subconscious mind.
When the body dies the subconscious mind remains and finds another body.
The spirit lives in the subconscious mind and the conscious mind lives in the body.
Think of avatar the last airbender.:dafq:
When you do sports and you're in the zone you are partially in the subconscious state of mind.
 
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Cerise

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Think of the spirit or whatever as the subconscious.
Naruto has everything ashura knows in his subconscious mind.
When the body dies the subconscious mind remains and finds another body.
The spirit lives in the subconscious mind and the conscious mind lives in the body.
Think of avatar the last airbender.:dafq:
When you do sports and you're in the zone you are partially in the subconscious state of mind.

That truly explains why Sasuke and Naruto always felt the need to fight in part 1. From the moment they met all they did was squabble like brothers.
 

Joseph Gomes

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Hashirama was not a born Genius, and only later developed Mokuton. Also, he always had a thing where he valued peace over warfare.

he was born genius. mokuton is his own personal kekkei genkai. just like shikotsumyaku is kimimaro's kekkei genkai. both were born with these exceptional skills. hashirama was a special senju just as kimimaro was a special kaguya
 

KGB Kakuzu

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This is the tough question.

The best way we can look for reincarnations of Indra is to find strong Uchiha who had a strong rival (Senju). I would say both Madara and Sasuke are descendants. Madara showed it as Hashirama's rival. This naturally passed down to Sasuke who is Naruto's rival.

We now have to ask why this happened to Sasuke, and it wasn't Itachi as the trait seemingly befalls older brothers (Indra and Madara). The answer IMO is due to Madara extending his life. We know Fugaku (Sasuke's father) was the leader of the clan similarly to Madara. We also know Sasuke looks a lot like Izuna. This likely suggest a direct blood line between Sasuke and Madara, and probably Sasuke and Indra. Since Indra cannot reincarnate until he dies again, this ultimately leads to Sasuke being the reincarnation.

As we know, Madara managed to extend his life up until the arrival of Obito. He dies when Obito is roughly 15 (he unplugs himself). Itachi is about 8 years younger than Obito (based on Kakashi's age). So when Obito is 15, Itachi is roughly 7 years old during Kurama's attack, and thus Itachi was already born before Indra could reincarnate.

We also know that some time passed between Madara dying and Obito attacking Konoha. This gives us about a year or two max in terms of time.... which means Itachi had already been born, but Sasuke was not (him being born just ahead of Naruto [August being Sasuke; November for Naruto]. Thus, Madara's death coincides within a relatively close time frame to Sasuke being born.

This explains why a younger brother was the reincarnation. If we continue with the Elder and Younger analogy throughout the series... the Elder has been depicted as cruel or evil (Itachi's introduction and clan massacre starting off as a villainous person). So we can assume the fact Sasuke was the will but in a younger son family position... it is a sign that the Cycle of Hatred will be broken.


As for the question of Souls, I would say you're thinking about it the wrong way. I'll use Tokyo Ravens as an example. In the manga/anime Tokyo Ravens, there is a descendant of a legendary Mage. This individual ends up basically saying this: I may be this Mage's reincarnation, but I am also me.

In short, while you are the reincarnation of someone, you exist as your own entity as well. This is best explained using Greek Mythology.

When people in Greek Mythology die, they'd go to the Underworld ruled by Hades. They'd travel down the river of Acheron. Long story short, before they are to go be reborn, one must drink from the river of Lethe to forget their past memories. Only then can they be reincarnated.

With that, you should think of reincarnation like that of Avatar the Last Airbender. It isn't the same spirit being reborn per say. Instead, it is more like a new individual is born, but were they capable of remembering their past lives, each new reincarnation would be themselves plus everyone behind them.

So Madara would be his previous forms and Indra. Sasuke would be Madara and Madara's previous forms up until Indra.


To conclude, there is no split between souls. They are two different souls, and are simply linked through the concept of time. Sasuke standing at the front, linked behind him is Madara, who knows how many people, and then Indra at the far end of the link.
 

Joker

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This is the tough question.

The best way we can look for reincarnations of Indra is to find strong Uchiha who had a strong rival (Senju). I would say both Madara and Sasuke are descendants. Madara showed it as Hashirama's rival. This naturally passed down to Sasuke who is Naruto's rival.

We now have to ask why this happened to Sasuke, and it wasn't Itachi as the trait seemingly befalls older brothers (Indra and Madara). The answer IMO is due to Madara extending his life. We know Fugaku (Sasuke's father) was the leader of the clan similarly to Madara. We also know Sasuke looks a lot like Izuna. This likely suggest a direct blood line between Sasuke and Madara, and probably Sasuke and Indra. Since Indra cannot reincarnate until he dies again, this ultimately leads to Sasuke being the reincarnation.

As we know, Madara managed to extend his life up until the arrival of Obito. He dies when Obito is roughly 15 (he unplugs himself). Itachi is about 8 years younger than Obito (based on Kakashi's age). So when Obito is 15, Itachi is roughly 7 years old during Kurama's attack, and thus Itachi was already born before Indra could reincarnate.

We also know that some time passed between Madara dying and Obito attacking Konoha. This gives us about a year or two max in terms of time.... which means Itachi had already been born, but Sasuke was not (him being born just ahead of Naruto [August being Sasuke; November for Naruto]. Thus, Madara's death coincides within a relatively close time frame to Sasuke being born.

This explains why a younger brother was the reincarnation. If we continue with the Elder and Younger analogy throughout the series... the Elder has been depicted as cruel or evil (Itachi's introduction and clan massacre starting off as a villainous person). So we can assume the fact Sasuke was the will but in a younger son family position... it is a sign that the Cycle of Hatred will be broken.


As for the question of Souls, I would say you're thinking about it the wrong way. I'll use Tokyo Ravens as an example. In the manga/anime Tokyo Ravens, there is a descendant of a legendary Mage. This individual ends up basically saying this: I may be this Mage's reincarnation, but I am also me.

In short, while you are the reincarnation of someone, you exist as your own entity as well. This is best explained using Greek Mythology.

When people in Greek Mythology die, they'd go to the Underworld ruled by Hades. They'd travel down the river of Acheron. Long story short, before they are to go be reborn, one must drink from the river of Lethe to forget their past memories. Only then can they be reincarnated.

With that, you should think of reincarnation like that of Avatar the Last Airbender. It isn't the same spirit being reborn per say. Instead, it is more like a new individual is born, but were they capable of remembering their past lives, each new reincarnation would be themselves plus everyone behind them.

So Madara would be his previous forms and Indra. Sasuke would be Madara and Madara's previous forms up until Indra.


To conclude, there is no split between souls. They are two different souls, and are simply linked through the concept of time. Sasuke standing at the front, linked behind him is Madara, who knows how many people, and then Indra at the far end of the link.
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saw2097

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This occurred to me, I would also note that Hashi and Madara do not meet the criteria of the reincarnations, their story is not like Ashura's and Indra's.

Hashirama was a natural born genius who was stronger then most adults, Madara was also a genius but had no problems admitting Hashirama was stronger, Indra was jealous of his brother and Ashura spent much of his life in Indra's shadow until he reached his level through hard work and the power of friendship.
 

Nebula

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This is the tough question.

The best way we can look for reincarnations of Indra is to find strong Uchiha who had a strong rival (Senju). I would say both Madara and Sasuke are descendants. Madara showed it as Hashirama's rival. This naturally passed down to Sasuke who is Naruto's rival.

We now have to ask why this happened to Sasuke, and it wasn't Itachi as the trait seemingly befalls older brothers (Indra and Madara). The answer IMO is due to Madara extending his life. We know Fugaku (Sasuke's father) was the leader of the clan similarly to Madara. We also know Sasuke looks a lot like Izuna. This likely suggest a direct blood line between Sasuke and Madara, and probably Sasuke and Indra. Since Indra cannot reincarnate until he dies again, this ultimately leads to Sasuke being the reincarnation.

As we know, Madara managed to extend his life up until the arrival of Obito. He dies when Obito is roughly 15 (he unplugs himself). Itachi is about 8 years younger than Obito (based on Kakashi's age). So when Obito is 15, Itachi is roughly 7 years old during Kurama's attack, and thus Itachi was already born before Indra could reincarnate.

We also know that some time passed between Madara dying and Obito attacking Konoha. This gives us about a year or two max in terms of time.... which means Itachi had already been born, but Sasuke was not (him being born just ahead of Naruto [August being Sasuke; November for Naruto]. Thus, Madara's death coincides within a relatively close time frame to Sasuke being born.

This explains why a younger brother was the reincarnation. If we continue with the Elder and Younger analogy throughout the series... the Elder has been depicted as cruel or evil (Itachi's introduction and clan massacre starting off as a villainous person). So we can assume the fact Sasuke was the will but in a younger son family position... it is a sign that the Cycle of Hatred will be broken.


As for the question of Souls, I would say you're thinking about it the wrong way. I'll use Tokyo Ravens as an example. In the manga/anime Tokyo Ravens, there is a descendant of a legendary Mage. This individual ends up basically saying this: I may be this Mage's reincarnation, but I am also me.

In short, while you are the reincarnation of someone, you exist as your own entity as well. This is best explained using Greek Mythology.

When people in Greek Mythology die, they'd go to the Underworld ruled by Hades. They'd travel down the river of Acheron. Long story short, before they are to go be reborn, one must drink from the river of Lethe to forget their past memories. Only then can they be reincarnated.

With that, you should think of reincarnation like that of Avatar the Last Airbender. It isn't the same spirit being reborn per say. Instead, it is more like a new individual is born, but were they capable of remembering their past lives, each new reincarnation would be themselves plus everyone behind them.

So Madara would be his previous forms and Indra. Sasuke would be Madara and Madara's previous forms up until Indra.


To conclude, there is no split between souls. They are two different souls, and are simply linked through the concept of time. Sasuke standing at the front, linked behind him is Madara, who knows how many people, and then Indra at the far end of the link.

There can only be one!
Who has the soul of the one guy.:rage:
 

KGB Kakuzu

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Me at your post

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View reincarnation as a long line where the people are all holding a rope. At the back of the line is Indra. At the front of the line is Sasuke. Behind Sasuke is Madara.

They are all individual people, but they are linked by memories of their past life. Except, these individuals have no way to a use the rope to remember who they previously were.

They are all different people, but are all linked by an invisible rope that is Indra's will/spirit.


This occurrence based on Indra and Madara, typically happens with first born children of a family. However, Madara kept himself alive longer than humanly normal. Thus, Itachi (who'd be the first born) was skipped over by this. A Younger Son (Sasuke) is born within a timeline that parallels the time Madara should have died. Thus, Sasuke was the reincarnation instead of an Older Son.
 

Gyakusetsu

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Seems like there were a few people saying the brother can be Sasuke and madara or something.
Not sure if people understand reincarnation so I'll make it simple.

The way reincarnation works is the person dies and the spirit starts a life in a new body.
The spirit waits until they can be born in the body they are basically destined to be.
That spirit cannot live through two people at the same time.
Madz can't be the same person as Sasuke.
Hashirama can't be Naruto.

This is an incorrect explanation. Buddhism teaches the impermanence of all things and that includes your existence. It isn't a one for one math equation. Your existence is like a ripple on water. Your experiences could have greater impact and you may manifest in multiple forms and in different universes. The Buddha also have different manifestations and emanations. It is constant change in every element of existence which includes number. That is part of how population expansion is explained, not that there were a billion well behaved grasshoppers that suddenly were reborn to become human over the last 15 years.
 
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